Sonic the Hedgehog 4

[Badnik Zero]

So after reading this on and off for two hours, I've caught up to the still growing 22 or so pages since late last night. This game looks to be exactly what I thought it'd be. A modern interpretation of a classic. If you expected a game that looked like it was dug from a time capsule dated "1995" it wasn't going to happen. Some kind of modern influence has to creep into this game in 2010, just by way of osmosis. I'd say on a philosophical level that it's impossible to make a game from 1995 in 2010. The people who made those games aren't together anymore, and ideas about gaming have changed. I don't think it would happen.

As for some of the arguing that's going on... This isn't directed at Phos because he's been kind of flamed for speaking up, but who cares about eye color and backgrounds. This is the closest thing we've got to classic. Fighting is petty and fighting about fighting is petty. A game is being announced here.

My opinions on the homing attack are this. I hate the homing attack in 3D, since I think there's better ways to aim a hedgehog. But I don't make video games, so I can't say for sure. What I do know is that it encourages enemy chains in 3D games that I think play themselves. Thankfully I can't think of a 2D game that happens in. In 2D the homing becomes a short aerial burst instead of the long jump correcting move it usually is. Then if you're near an enemy it auto-aims Sonic. It's not too different from the insta-shield, even though I prefer that move. I hope they look to recent handhelds for advice on the 2D homing.

The story is something I'm actually interested in. Not because it picks up from S3&K, but because it might have an impact on later titles. Someone earlier wondered if this could be a bridge between modern and classic Sonic. Lots of us felt it was jarring to go from wacky landscapes like Mushroom Hill to the populated Station Square. If this game is a kind of retroactive meeting point of the two (lol, Sonic Xtreme here) I'd be very grateful to Sega. If the events of this game are supposed to occur "10 years earlier" and the game is successful, could we see reference to them or a revisiting of classic locations without awkwardness?

[Yong]

I think that it doesn't necessarily mean that we'll only be getting fragments of the game. Think about it like this.

If they just called it Sonic 4, and it was a big success, and they wanted to make another, what would they do? Call it Sonic 5? And then Sonic 6? Not only would you be entering Megaman Syndrome, but you'd also be making sequels, and with sequels, people (rightfully) expect a lot of new content, and not just more of the same. However, if you deliver full games in "episode" format, then no one expects any more from the next episode than what was in the previous—They just expect new stages, and maybe new characters, if that.

This is of course being optimistic. We have nothing to indicate that this won't be another partial game, ala Sonic 3. Here's hoping, though.

No, it's not Megaman syndrome. It's Street Fighter syndrome.

Why bother putting a number at the end of the title if you don't stick to the number system? I'm surprised there hasn't been a game like "Game Title 4: Episode 7 Chapter 5 Verse 26 Line 18"

As for the model arguments....

Does it really matter? The only GLARING difference is the Sonic on the right has his spikes in a mohawk. But both Sonics have spikes that are essentially the same length.

I love this pic.

[jeremycarrier]

Hey, D-Toid post. I think Jim sums it up rather nicely.

Ultimately, I think that shitting on Sonic 4 so harshly after less than ten seconds of game footage and a unique distribution model is not only presumptuous, but very silly indeed. If you've already decided not to buy the game just because it's episodic, or it's a Sonic game, or it's not innovative enough for you, then there's something very wrong inside your mind. I am not at all saying that the game will definitely be good. Nor am I saying that a dose of wise skepticism isn't required. However, those bitching about the thing within twenty-four hours of its announcement simply demonstrate to Sega that they can't win, no matter what they do.

Also, time for some shameless plugging!

http://www.destructoid.com/blogs/Ninja+In+Distress/why-sonic-4-matters-to-me-162565.phtml#story

[Solid SOAP]

I'd say that the only thing I'm not 100% in love with is the art style, I don't mind the way Sonic looks (Although he's always looked kinda funny from a 2D perspective with his post-Sonic Adventure look in my opinion), but the visuals remind me more of Sonic Rush HD than Classic Sonic HD, this isn't a big problem and I really won't care in the long run, but I was kind of hoping for something along the lines of Sonic Rivals, only with much higher polys obviously. No big deal, I'll manage, but I'm not the biggest fan of the visual style, it doesn't give me many classic vibes.

[Phos]

Look, I'm not going to beat this thing over the head any more than I have to. You know I have your back most days Phos, but I just can't see your reasoning here. You can be disappointed about the eyes thing but I don't see how that makes a blind bit of difference to the enjoyment of the game. Regardless of whether I misinterpreted your posts or not, the very idea of being turned off by something that you won't even see 99% of your play time is in itself slightly weird. But you know, opinions - all shapes and sizes.

That life icon is staring at you the whole time. But your comment on " something that you won't even see 99% of your play time" I have to disagree. Little details can add a lot to a game. Take the X-ray visor from Metroid Prime. When you put it on, you can see Samus's hand (or at least it's skeleton) through the gun arm's walls. Or take the file that Rouge found on Project Shadow - the texture for that file can be read but only if you rip it from the game. Little details can go a long way to making a world and its characters feel more alive. In the case of the black eyes, I think they make Sonic look like a nicer guy during that 1% of the time you actually see them in game, and during the 100% of the time you can see them in the life icon. Actually, simply saying black eyes seems to be oversimplifying it a tad, Sonic's modern eyes always seem to have a bit of a scowl to them.

Also, LOst just brought to my attention some details about Sonic Rush's physics system, details that would explain why Sonic was able to get up that wall/slope so easily if this game is using Sonic Rush style physics:

Nah, it is just a Sonic Rush slope (he can run up it without any boost):

It has some neat physics. A lot can be said about them in my demonstration video:

Also the trailer shows the Sonic jump just like he does in it in Sonic Rush. See video above.

It hadn't actually crossed my mind that they were basing this off of Rush's code, but it makes sense. The camera moves the same way going through the corkscrew and Sonic has the same standing pose.

[Solid SOAP]

That life icon is staring at you the whole time. But your comment on " something that you won't even see 99% of your play time" I have to disagree. Little details can add a lot to a game. Take the X-ray visor from Metroid Prime. When you put it on, you can see Samus's hand (or at least it's skeleton) through the gun arm's walls. Or take the file that Rouge found on Project Shadow - the texture for that file can be read but only if you rip it from the game. Little details can go a long way to making a world and its characters feel more alive. In the case of the black eyes, I think they make Sonic look like a nicer guy during that 1% of the time you actually see them in game, and during the 100% of the time you can see them in the life icon. Actually, simply saying black eyes seems to be oversimplifying it a tad, Sonic's modern eyes always seem to have a bit of a scowl to them.

..wow. Wow. Just... wow. I... can't even. This is the biggest fucking bullshit excuse for a nitpick ever, I swear to God, this is beyond nitpicking, you're really just grasping the straws here. Black eyes make Sonic look like a nicer guy... really? That's going to be a large detriment to the overall quality of this game, his eye color? Sonic looking like a slightly nicer guy is really going to affect how you feel about this game? Jesus fucking Christ dude, I'm not here to criticise or mock you but.. wow, that's single-handedly the most ridiculously purist thing I have ever read. Ever.

[Diogenes]

I've seen a few people talking about the rings being huge.

Not so much. Possibly not at all, as Sonic's a bit hunched over in the frame I grabbed.

[Dejablue]

I'm going to get the crucifixion cross ready to hang up on but I gotta admit I wanted to see Classic Sonic in this.

Now before about 10 of you claim to the Heavens that this statement translates to me not buying the game cuz I'm a Retro-fag purist, elitist whateverist... as a cheap attempt make yourself feel elevated over this festering fanbase let me tell you now that you are wrong.

If I don't buy this game it'll be for various financial reasons.

Edited February 4, 2010 by Dejablue

[Solid SOAP]

I don't mind the inclusion of New Sonic so much as the odd looking environments, which, honestly, probably are subject to change or I have simply just not seen enough to pass judgement of them yet. In my opinion, this game seems to be the opposite of the classics as far as Sonic goes visually, let me explain. In the CG logo Sonic looks fantastic, honestly, I think he looks great paired with the classic styled logo. However, in game, he looks a bit awkward. In the Genesis games however, Sonic looked like a smug cunt on the boxart with an assface and goofy smile, while in game he looked great.

[EXshad]

I am stunned that anyone could nitpick this already. Sure, complain about big things, such as Sonic's appearance or the addition of the homing attack, or especially the episodic format the game will be released in, but.... hating the game because of the HUD? His fucking EYES?!!?!?!

This community can seriously suck ass sometimes. I don't wanna bash anyone, and guys like T-Bird and Dread are fine reasons why the Sonic fan-base is still going strong, but Jesus Christ, get over it. Fans have been clamoring for Sonic in 2D on the main consoles, and now you literally get Sonic the Hedgehog 4, your fucking wet dream. And all you can do is bitch about is how his eyes are green.

Fucking buzz-kills. Please wait for more than 10 seconds of game footage before you write it off.

Edited February 5, 2010 by EXshad

[vgmaster]

I'm going to get the crucifixion cross ready to hang up on but I gotta admit I wanted to see Classic Sonic in this.

We all wanted to see it.

I am stunned that anyone could nitpick this already. Sure, complain about big things, such as Sonic's appearance or the addition of the homing attack, but.... hating the game because of the HUD? His fucking EYES?!!?!?!

This community can seriously suck ass sometimes. I don't wanna bash anyone, and guys like T-Bird and Dread are fine reasons why the Sonic fan-base is still going strong, but Jesus Christ, get over it. Fans have been clamoring for Sonic in 2D on the main consoles, and now you literally get Sonic 4, your fucking wet dream. And all you can do is bitch about is how his eyes are green.

Fucking buzz-kill. Please wait for more than 10 seconds of game footage before you write it off.

The prime reason we're so upset is because we wanted the classic 16-bit Sonic, but instead we get a 2.5D Sonic. What else are they going to add, voice samples for the characters?

Edited February 5, 2010 by vgmaster

[Rusty Spy]

I'm going to get the crucifixion cross ready to hang up on but I gotta admit I wanted to see Classic Sonic in this.

Now before about 10 of you claim to the Heavens that this statement translates to me not buying the game cuz I'm a Retro-fag purist, elitist whateverist... as a cheap attempt make yourself feel elevated over this festering fanbase let me tell you now that you are wrong.

If I don't buy this game it'll be for various financial reasons.

I see what you mean. I was really hoping to see wheel-legged Sonic during the little time trip at the beginning of the trailer

Though I expect to see this 3 second gameplay vid look radically different from the final game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIdfwF30Lcs..... in a GOOD way of course.

The prime reason we're so upset is because we wanted the classic 16-bit Sonic, but instead we get a 2.5D Sonic. What else are they going to add, voice samples for the characters?

Yet no one complained.

I don't mind the way Sonic looks (Although he's always looked kinda funny from a 2D perspective with his post-Sonic Adventure look in my opinion), but the visuals remind me more of Sonic Rush HD than Classic Sonic HD

This is probably because the level looks just like Leaf Storm Zone Rush.

Edited February 5, 2010 by Black Spy

[lounge]

Right now the only thing that's bothering me is that they're still using the Unleashed model. He just does not look cool anymore. Go back to the adventure design Uekawa.

Even his sonic 3 model had charm and appeal even if it looked chubby.

I just hope they don't get some new composer to create stupid, loud music.

[Solid SOAP]

I am stunned that anyone could nitpick this already. Sure, complain about big things, such as Sonic's appearance or the addition of the homing attack, or especially the episodic format the game will be released in, but.... hating the game because of the HUD? His fucking EYES?!!?!?!

This community can seriously suck ass sometimes. I don't wanna bash anyone, and guys like T-Bird and Dread are fine reasons why the Sonic fan-base is still going strong, but Jesus Christ, get over it. Fans have been clamoring for Sonic in 2D on the main consoles, and now you literally get Sonic the Hedgehog 4, your fucking wet dream. And all you can do is bitch about is how his eyes are green.

Fucking buzz-kills. Please wait for more than 10 seconds of game footage before you write it off.

This, Jesus effing Christ this. I'm a tad hypocritical due to my comments regarding the level visual style, however that isn't making or breaking my purchase of this game, I really couldn't give less a fuck if it's actually fun. People who are seriously, SERIOUSLY upset regarding the color of Sonic's irises and how that will ruin the game for them need to shut the fuck up. Make assumptions about the physics system of the game and the game's potential to not be as true to the Genesis originals as one would hope all you want, those are legitimate excuses to be upset, however, bitching about Sonic's EYE COLOR is fucking ridiculous beyond belief.

[EXshad]

The prime reason we're so upset is because we wanted the classic 16-bit Sonic, but instead we get a 2.5D Sonic. What else are they going to add, voice samples for the characters?

It still seems kinda stupid to me. This is the best possible way, in my eyes, Sega could have brought classic Sonic gameplay to new gamers. And it's not good enough because Sonic looks 3D and his quills are just slightly too different. Oh, and his eyes are green.

Hell, I'm sure if they DID give you back the "classic" Sonic you're thinking of, you'd STILL bitch about how it's nothing but a rehash! Congrats, fanbase, that's a new record!

What a fucking JOKE.

...Wow, only 5 comments to kill pretty much any joy I had for seeing classic Sonic gameplay return!

Look, if the gameplay sucks or isn't properly momentum-based, if the music is nothing but shitty rock, or even if Eggman isn't the last boss, I'll admit to being a total tool for expecting this to totally kick ass. I promise. But until then, please at least TRY to give it the benefit of the doubt. It's classic gameplay, seemingly down to the purely momentum-driven gameplay. Just wait, for the sake of the small ounce of remaining respect this fanbase has. PLEASE.

Edited February 5, 2010 by EXshad

[ChaosXVI]

All that is worrying me is that Sonic Team will completely lose morale by the can of worms this game seems to have created in the fanbase, I can't recall another time the fans have been more rabid...

I just hope SEGA shows more footage soon, so that some of the intense-pessimists can be put at ease.

Edited February 5, 2010 by ChaosXVI

[Diogenes]

We all wanted to see it.

Speak for yourself. I prefer the modern look.

The prime reason we're so upset is because we wanted the classic 16-bit Sonic, but instead we get a 2.5D Sonic. What else are they going to add, voice samples for the characters?

We knew it was HD from the time it was announced. If you were seriously still expecting it to be 16-bit, the only one to blame is yourself.

[Dejablue]

This, Jesus effing Christ this. I'm a tad hypocritical due to my comments regarding the level visual style, however that isn't making or breaking my purchase of this game, I really couldn't give less a fuck if it's actually fun. People who are seriously, SERIOUSLY upset regarding the color of Sonic's irises and how that will ruin the game for them need to shut the fuck up. Make assumptions about the physics system of the game and the game's potential to not be as true to the Genesis originals as one would hope all you want, those are legitimate excuses to be upset, however, bitching about Sonic's EYE COLOR is fucking ridiculous beyond belief.

Are people complaining about the eye color or the lack of Classic Sonic as a whole? That is a significant difference.

[ChaosXVI]

Are people complaining about the eye color or the lack of Classic Sonic as a whole? That is a significant difference.

Not necessarily, I think the people who are hating the green eyes are more or less saying they want the Classic Sonic, which yes, I would have preferred as well, but its not like I honestly care, Sonic 4 will still be Sonic 4, not "Sonic 4 and the curse of the green eyes".

[Dummy Bear]

We all wanted to see it.

Excuse me? It's fine that you wanted to see it, you don't speak for the entire community.

[Aquaslash]

Would you guys break up with your girl because she has green eyes?

[Dejablue]

Would you guys break up with your girl because she has green eyes?

How does your significant other having Green Eyes have anything to do with this?

[Tyranno]

See? This is what I keep talking about. No one has any sense of give and take here.

[ChaosXVI]

Would you guys break up with your girl because she has green eyes?

I TOTALLY would...because of this I'm actually in support of genocide for Greenies, which sucks for me, for I have green eyes...oh well...Everyone has to pay to make the world a perfect place I suppose.

[Agent York]

I noticed eye colour is a major thing it seems... then again people were complaining the other day that Ryo's hair was too long on the ASR forklift model when the render had come from the actual Shenmue team. :S

R.e. running, I will say that as part of my feedback to the S4 team before all this came out I did use the words "Figure 8?" Whether or not Sonic will we'll have to wait and see, but I did say it - honest!

No, I like the eye color!

The Black Empty Eyes Stare into your SOUL!!!