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MetalSkulkBane

Who's Amy Rose?

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I feel like there are 3 most common girl stereotypes
1) Girly girl, all about feeling and cute things
2) Bad Ass "can keep up with the boys" action chick
3) Mature level headed one

And after studying Amy's life I feel she wore all those hats, sometimes few at once.

Recent IDW comics show her as true leader of Resistance, something that I accepted without batting an eye. "She's not Sally, but she's the reasonable one." But then I looked at earlier games and I realized that Amy used to be...  somewhat childish let's say? I would never put SA2 Amy in charge, or one from Riders. Yes she lead Team Rose few times, but she was more "bossy" than '"boss". Her mature personality is extremely recent, Lost World at best. And to be frank, I'm terrified how easily I accept it as norm. I suppose Archie Amy was more rational, but most of her important moves (helping Sonic and Sally on a date, cheering up Coral, calming Werehog or team-up with Knuckles in "Shattered") were more emotional support of kind and emphatic person rather than logical decisions of organized/tactical mind.

And that makes me wonder: should I just go with it? Is it okay to think that Amy matured somewhat or is it in any way betrayal to her original characterization?

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Amy has always been a "depends on the writer"-type character, for better or for worse.

Not being as well-versed in the comic universes, I've boiled down the usual writing for her character as either one of two things:
1. Bossy and/or quick to anger, self-centered, and far too obsessive over Sonic (demonstrated in Heroes, that one utterly stupid line in 06, Generations, and X). Not a terribly good portrayal imo, and it's where I'd say the divisiveness in the fandom regarding her character (particularly from Classic-leaning fans from what I've seen) comes from.
2. Level-headed and/or always willing to help others, compassionate, with her crush on Sonic (mostly) downplayed (demonstrated in the Adventure games...for the most part; can't ignore that Prison Island scene in SA2, Shadow, literally any part of 06 aside from that thing she said to Silver, Unleashed, Lost World, and what little we saw of her in Forces). This is how I think Amy should be written, personally. A sweet girl who genuinely cares about the feelings and condition of others; inspired by Sonic's own heroism, is capable of and dedicated to protecting the world against the forces of evil. Obviously has a thing for Sonic, but doesn't try to make it the focal point of every conversation she has. Maturity level and leadership skills might be harder to determine; for example, if they make her a good leader in whatever hypothetical canon this would be, would it make her look too incompetent to have Eggman manipulate her compassion for others as a scheme? Personality-wise, I always took Amy to be more of a girly-girl type who just so happens to also like adventuring and putting bad guys in their place with her trusty hammer. "Badass" is a word I'd use to describe Rouge or Blaze, for different reasons.

So uh, there's my take.

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1 hour ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

I feel like there are 3 most common girl stereotypes
1) Girly girl, all about feeling and cute things
2) Bad Ass "can keep up with the boys" action chick
3) Mature level headed one

Just a quick disclaimer that this is my opinion. Amy is interesting to me as her Classic self felt like a bit of both. She was girly in some ways like her crush on Sonic (not saying boys can't), but she also had enough spunk to be included in Sonic the Fighters. I do think Classic Amy was kind of childish, but I think it makes sense considering her age.

I like to think that compassion is one of her big traits, and that at first it's done so in a more childish way by a young crush on a cool hero. (I know Mania Adventures was written later, but her helping Metal Sonic is also a good example) But as she grows up after Adventure she matures a bit (not completely), and is able to show compassion and help people beyond Sonic like the bird or trying to show Shadow why humanity is worth existing. I'm the type to focus on what I like though, so a lot of the later content I didn't like as much as it seemed like going against her character to have her angry so often.

I think Amy isn't really bad ass the same way as Blaze or Rouge, but I think it's okay because she doesn't need to be like them. She just needs to be like herself. I do think that since she admires Sonic (similar to Tails), that aspiring to keep up with him and to keep trying is kind of bad ass in it's own way. (although knowing she can never truly get anywhere with him is kind of sad, but isn't allowed to move on either)

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I think Amy's perfect incarnation is a mix of Lost World, Boom, Sonic Mania Adventures and her mature moments from the earlier games. Kind, compassionate and empathetic to anyone and everyone no matter how bad they might be (Shadow, Silver, Metal Sonic, even Eggman), having a huge crush on Sonic but not overly obsessive or obnoxious about it (it's really obvious, but she keeps it under control and doesn't overstep her boundaries), and also having her own moments of heroism, initiative and competence. She should be her own character we can identify with and a hero we can root for instead  of just having her whole world revolve entirely around Sonic (as she used to be so proud of at some point).

If Sonic's the cocky, but brave hearted and ultimately selfless Hero, Tails is the helpful, dependable and adorkable Lancer/Smart Guy and Knuckles is the thick-headed, hot-blooded but well-meaning and protective Big Guy, Amy should be the kindhearted, supportive but also competent and capable Action Girl/Chick. (going off of Tv Trope character types here, but I think they fit in this case)

Also, unpopular opinion, even though I think her Sonic-obsessed yandere characterization was awful, I think it's acceptable as part of the past because it does play a part in making her more well-rounded compassionate character she has recently shine even brighter when compared to her early characterization.

I view this obsession starting some time after her romantic feelings for Sonic rescuing her in CD grew out of control when she was a hormonal teenager/tween just entering puberty, but now that she's grown a bit (Sonic had his birthday, logicallly Amy should be a little older too), she's matured into being less obnoxious about her crush, and returning to the natural sweetness she always had even back as a kid. As seen in Sonic Mania Adventures she not only helped Metal Sonic, the very robot who kidnapped her but also gave Sonic a flower, expressing her feelings without being obsessive, which is very similar to her current characterization which is mostly this, but with some added heroism and active involvement in Sonic's adventures too instead of just being a damsel in distress or watching from the sidelines).

This gives her character some pretty neat character development and natural progression of someone her age who's had a huge crush on her hero since they were kids, and makes the contrast between her One-track minded Yandere self and compassionate, heroic Deredere self. Makes her a complex character with ups and downs but overall a very likeable character with her currently developed character.

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It's really telling to me that Amy's maturity is a major focus of this conversation and says a lot about how differently I see her.

I've always seen her as an childish, energetic girly-tomboy who is also very compassionate. Her being referred to as a rascal and genki girl has always allowed me to never be surprised when she throws herself into any situation and gets into or causes trouble one way or another. The whole mature-badass who happens to be compassionate and has a soft spot for Sonic or her WMD temper have never sat right with me at all. It's why I've been so disappointed with recent issues of IDW Sonic as it's like I don't recognize one of my favorite characters anymore. Tangle in Issue 24 was a heck of a lot closer to my expectations for Amy so honestly I'm really lost anymore myself.

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1 hour ago, Sonic Fan J said:

It's really telling to me that Amy's maturity is a major focus of this conversation and says a lot about how differently I see her.

I've always seen her as an childish, energetic girly-tomboy who is also very compassionate. Her being referred to as a rascal and genki girl has always allowed me to never be surprised when she throws herself into any situation and gets into or causes trouble one way or another. The whole mature-badass who happens to be compassionate and has a soft spot for Sonic or her WMD temper have never sat right with me at all. It's why I've been so disappointed with recent issues of IDW Sonic as it's like I don't recognize one of my favorite characters anymore. Tangle in Issue 24 was a heck of a lot closer to my expectations for Amy so honestly I'm really lost anymore myself.

That to me, is a personality more fit for someone like Marine more than Amy herself. Even though Early Amy had part of this as her character, I personally much prefer the more mature, compassionate and sweet but also capable and competent All Loving Heroine Action Girl that we have in Boom and Modern, with the sweet part also being present in Classic Amy too. The childish and enegetic bits along with her extreme Sonic obsession to me were her part of her early character when she was an exciteable hormonal tween, but by now she would have matured to become a more level-headed well-rounded character. To me at least, caring, compassionate but also heroic Amy is Ideal Amy post-character-development, energetic, rascally but also heroic Amy is Ideal Amy pre-character-development. To each their own though.

Also, here's a beautiful little fanfic (set in the dark war-laden Archie continuity from what I read) that highlights just what I want to see Amy be at heart, a kind, compassionate and selfless person that would always be there for not just Sonic, but also her friends and anyone else in need: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11763017/1/Safe-and-Sound

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Honestly I like a good mix of all 3. I feel Amy's been balanced out better in the comics and a bit in Boom than she has in the games but I'll give them credit for toning down her obsession with Sonic. Amy from like Heroes until charitably Unleashed always felt so one note to me with how much her personality was built around getting with Sonic and also how she had a hair trigger temper. I'll take more modern interpretations any day thank you. 

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1 hour ago, Sonario said:

That to me, is a personality more fit for someone like Marine more than Amy herself. Even though Early Amy had part of this as her character, I personally much prefer the more mature, compassionate and sweet but also capable and competent All Loving Heroine Action Girl that we have in Boom and Modern, with the sweet part also being present in Classic Amy too. The childish and enegetic bits along with her extreme Sonic obsession to me were her part of her early character when she was an exciteable hormonal tween, but by now she would have matured to become a more level-headed well-rounded character. To me at least, caring, compassionate but also heroic Amy is Ideal Amy post-character-development, energetic, rascally but also heroic Amy is Ideal Amy pre-character-development. To each their own though.

Also, here's a beautiful little fanfic (set in the dark war-laden Archie continuity from what I read) that highlights just what I want to see Amy be at heart, a kind, compassionate and selfless person that would always be there for not just Sonic, but also her friends and anyone else in need: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11763017/1/Safe-and-Sound

I'll have to check the fic when I have the time, but I always find age perceptions interesting as Amy was listed as eight pre-Adventure and aged up to twelve from Adventure onward. Outside of that though, part of what is missing to me about the more mature takes on Amy is the charm she had as the more energetic character. Combine that with the loss of her perpetual optimism and faith in Sonic regardless of her crush, and she comes across a lot duller to me. I enjoy being entertained and mature characters who don't get ridiculous and have fun or try to lighten the mood (another role of Amy's as a mood maker type character) don't even feel believable to me no less come across as entertaining.

I do find it funny though that you use Marine as an example of where you see that personality fitting better as I already consider Blaze a fusion of Sonic and Knuckles so now you have me feeling like Marine is a fusion of Tails and Amy😄

1 hour ago, SBR2 said:

Honestly I like a good mix of all 3. I feel Amy's been balanced out better in the comics and a bit in Boom than she has in the games but I'll give them credit for toning down her obsession with Sonic. Amy from like Heroes until charitably Unleashed always felt so one note to me with how much her personality was built around getting with Sonic and also how she had a hair trigger temper. I'll take more modern interpretations any day thank you. 

The Heroes/Sonic X era was definitely not a very good era as pretty much everything I enjoyed about Amy was simply buried under those two traits. But I'll still instead stick with Adventure 2 and Mania Adventure Amy myself though. That bubbly energy she has and her playfulness just gives her so much life. Maybe if maturing didn't strip her of that I'd be alright, but for some reason being playful and energetic are considered traits that have to go when being mature. I really don't understand that at all since maturity is really just awareness of ones actions, the consequences of them, and actively choosing the right thing to do based on careful analysis. None of that has to be divorced from being energetic and playful.

EDIT:

Alright @Sonario, I went ahead and read it now and it was quite the enjoyable little story. It also in no capacity contradicts my preference for Amy being bubbly, playful, and energetic. If anything, the story so small that it can barely show any other aspects of her personality with even her eagerness to be with Sonic only being mentioned by Sonic himself. Yet in the end she still got to spend some intimate time with Sonic 😆Thanks for the recommendation!

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46 minutes ago, Sonic Fan J said:

I'll have to check the fic when I have the time, but I always find age perceptions interesting as Amy was listed as eight pre-Adventure and aged up to twelve from Adventure onward. Outside of that though, part of what is missing to me about the more mature takes on Amy is the charm she had as the more energetic character. Combine that with the loss of her perpetual optimism and faith in Sonic regardless of her crush, and she comes across a lot duller to me. I enjoy being entertained and mature characters who don't get ridiculous and have fun or try to lighten the mood (another role of Amy's as a mood maker type character) don't even feel believable to me no less come across as entertaining.

I do find it funny though that you use Marine as an example of where you see that personality fitting better as I already consider Blaze a fusion of Sonic and Knuckles so now you have me feeling like Marine is a fusion of Tails and Amy😄

You definitely oughta give it a read. It portrays Amy as the mood-lightener but does it in a completely different way. Her optimism, good-naturedness and affinity for cheering others up is not necessarily something that has to go if she matures. Instead, she can start approaching that in a different way. Instead of being a cheerful kid whose antics you just have to smile at, she's more of a comforting presence who just knows the right words to say and things to do make the pain go away. This I feel is the natural progressiion of Amy's role of cheering everyone up, since it's the same thing but with two different mindsets. From childlike cheerfulness to tender loving care. Just my two cents at least, I'm fine with other interpretations of envisioning of her character, but this is how I like her the most.

Also, I'm glad I'm giving you something to think about for Marine! It's just really nice that even if a lot of people claim that Sonic is not that good or deep a franchise, its characters have so much depth for us to discover and discuss. Almost everyone just provides so much in their characterizations and development, that its easy to just talk about any character and go on about it.

 

1 hour ago, SBR2 said:

Honestly I like a good mix of all 3.

Yeah a good mix of all 3 is pretty good too. But just for my personal taste, I kind of prefer her Genki Girl qualities to be toned down with age. To me, that sort of character is best fit for someone who I perceive is meant to be hyperactive or endlessly cheerful, like Marine. That doesn't necessarily mean Amy's optimism and cheer should be toned down, but rather the approach to those traits should be changed to be a little more subtle. Like that aforementioned exciteable kid who will cheer you up just by doing her thing growing into a caring person that knows just what to say or do to make you smile.

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5 minutes ago, Sonario said:

Also, I'm glad I'm giving you something to think about for Marine! It's just really nice that even if a lot of people claim that Sonic is not that good or deep a franchise, its characters have so much depth for us to discover and discuss. Almost everyone just provides so much in their characterizations and development, that its easy to just talk about any character and go on about it.

For as much as people can't stand her, Marine is one of my favorite characters.

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3 hours ago, Sonic Fan J said:

It's really telling to me that Amy's maturity is a major focus of this conversation and says a lot about how differently I see her.

I've always seen her as an childish, energetic girly-tomboy who is also very compassionate. Her being referred to as a rascal and genki girl has always allowed me to never be surprised when she throws herself into any situation and gets into or causes trouble one way or another. The whole mature-badass who happens to be compassionate and has a soft spot for Sonic or her WMD temper have never sat right with me at all. It's why I've been so disappointed with recent issues of IDW Sonic as it's like I don't recognize one of my favorite characters anymore. Tangle in Issue 24 was a heck of a lot closer to my expectations for Amy so honestly I'm really lost anymore myself.

I haven't read much of IDW but I'm kinda on the same line. I mean don't get me wrong, I don't mind Amy having lucid and smart moments, and it's refreshing she's not a one note violent and obnoxious loudmouth like her later Sonic X characterisation, but making her just primarily down to earth and positive faceted and diluting her flaws instead of moderating and writing them properly feels like a lazy tune up. Plus I'm kinda bored with the whole 'straight man female' archetype that's less flawed and more dignified than everyone else (ie. boring), I always read Sally thinking she could have been something far more three dimensional than just the right to other's wrong, but with Amy it feels ridiculous. Is it THAT hard writing flaws for girls while still keeping them competent?

It's sadly not the first or even worst time it's occured either, STC outright mandated Amy be drained of her (ironically game accurate) personality and be the most mature and logical Freedom Fighter. Yeah Amy shouldn't just be a fawning damsel in distress but she should remain a bastion of childlike high spirit and idiosyncrasies. I truthfully LIKED Amy was one of the more naturally flawed characters in the series beforehand, at least until they started relying on her tsundere traits more than a little too much.

Truth be told, if it wasn't for exagerating her crush on Sonic, I'd have thought Heroes struck a good balance for Amy, we saw her progress somewhat in that game, actually take the leader role with two less experienced heroes, and we saw how she was the life and party of the group BECAUSE of her childish bubbliness, how when the others were getting scared or losing confidence she would remain headstrong and energetic, assuring them they can keep it going in an almost cheerleader-ish way, even if she still kept her temper lowkey or could act like a 'little brat' in confrontations.

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I can only imagine that in the future, Amy will become some type of negative mash-up of her Sonic Obsessed self and her mature self in a way that's totally off balance. Due to not knowing how those 2 traits can possibly co-exist at the same time.

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6 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

I can only imagine that in the future, Amy will become some type of negative mash-up of her Sonic Obsessed self and her mature self in a way that's totally off balance. Due to not knowing how those 2 traits can possibly co-exist at the same time.

A badly written 'beware the nice ones' archetype then, that is default nice but keeps going out of character nasty for gags. I feel like Sonic X kinda leaned on that for Amy actually, just after a while they screwed the formalities and just made her a complete in-universe brat. Even Cream got some of these moments, usually around Knuckles who was the show's 'Meg'. :P

Yeah those tend to suck, especially since the negative elements tend to be overlooked besides said gags, never having consequences or development from them. They're pretty much 'jerk sues'. It's especially bad when the OOC humour takes over and the default nice personality practically becomes implied only.

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I still think Amy's personality got completely ruined with Sonic lost World and onward now with the developers being afraid of Amy showing the slightest form of affection for Sonic she's becoming this bland character with no ambitions.

 

The IDW comic said that Amy has grown over time but it hasn't even been year in Sonic's world so it comes off as something they lied about so Amy can stay busy with filing papers keeping her mind off Sonic.  

 

 

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Considering Amy is only 12. I don't think making her more "mature" is a great direction. Kids that age are not mature regardless of having been on many adventures. Sure we don't want her character to be boiled down to "crazy romance obsessed stalker" either, but watering her down while just making her purely the boring helpful supportive type who is a good level headed leader isn't interesting/fun for her character I say.

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Sonic's Team's.

Isn't there technically a fourth, more worrisome and guarded type?

Some maturity is fine, I guess. It's just that Amy isn't really that type of character and doesn't really get to do much with it.

9 hours ago, skull902 said:

Amy has always been a "depends on the writer"-type character, for better or for worse.

Pretty much.

7 hours ago, Sonic Fan J said:

Tangle in Issue 24 was a heck of a lot closer to my expectations for Amy so honestly I'm really lost anymore myself.

Both do have that "Energetic fangirl of Sonic" theme about them.

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2 hours ago, Fire-N-Space said:

The IDW comic said that Amy has grown over time but it hasn't even been year in Sonic's world so it comes off as something they lied about so Amy can stay busy with filing papers keeping her mind off Sonic.  

Eeeeh, sorta?

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2 hours ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

Considering Amy is only 12. I don't think making her more "mature" is a great direction. Kids that age are not mature regardless of having been on many adventures. Sure we don't want her character to be boiled down to "crazy romance obsessed stalker" either, but watering her down while just making her purely the boring helpful supportive type who is a good level headed leader isn't interesting/fun for her character I say.

Eh, that depends on if you take the characters ages seriously I guess. 

Personally I don't because almost none of them act their designated ages so Amy being mature for a 12 year old doesn't bother me because most 12 year olds don't live or shop by themselves which SA1 at least hints Amy does.

Quote

The IDW comic said that Amy has grown over time but it hasn't even been year in Sonic's world so it comes off as something they lied about so Amy can stay busy with filing papers keeping her mind off Sonic.  

And this is another reason I don't take the ages seriously. Even in the games they talk like it's been years (hell Infinite says it's been decades) but they're all still supposedly teenagers. 

This is why I'm glad I've never been too worried about Sonic lore.

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This is still fiction ya know, characters acting 100% according to their ages has never been a thing...unless they're literal babies.

All ages are relative and only justifies the attitudes of certain characters.

58 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

Even in the games they talk like it's been years...

No character ever mentions years passing and that one joke of exception doesn't exactly mean anything outside of being meta comment.

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15 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

This is still fiction ya know, characters acting 100% according to their ages has never been a thing...unless they're literal babies.

Umm saying something is just fiction is not a get outta jail free card for story telling. If a character doesn't act their age then some people will wonder why that is obviously. And a decent writer don't just do whatever and tell their viewers to ignore the details. Personally I think characters should act their age unless there is acceptable reasons for them not to within the story, because that is what a GOOD writer would do.

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Just now, Lord-Dreamerz said:

Umm saying something is just fiction is not a get outta jail free card for story telling.

If the ages are relevant to the story, themes, character development? Audience Appeal?

But this is like the 2nd time this has happened, so never mind.

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19 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

This is still fiction ya know, characters acting 100% according to their ages has never been a thing...unless they're literal babies.

All ages are relative and only justifies the attitudes of certain characters.

No character ever mentions years passing and that one joke of exception doesn't exactly mean anything outside of being meta comment.

 

5 minutes ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

Umm saying something is just fiction is not a get outta jail free card for story telling. If a character doesn't act their age then some people will wonder why that is obviously. And a decent writer don't just do whatever and tell their viewers to ignore the details. Personally I think characters should act their age unless there is acceptable reasons for them not to within the story, because that is what a GOOD writer would do.

I mean, there is Eggman and Big.

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I don't care if it is taking her character in a new direction, Amy being some pencil pusher is weak and comes off as an overreaction to the backlash against her portrayals in games like Heroes and also rooted in the "no other characters just Sonic Final Destination" crowd. It's no better than how Knuckles was forced into the Resistance's commander where he just sits there.

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29 minutes ago, Almar said:

I don't care if it is taking her character in a new direction, Amy being some pencil pusher is weak and comes off as an overreaction to the backlash against her portrayals in games like Heroes and also rooted in the "no other characters just Sonic Final Destination" crowd. It's no better than how Knuckles was forced into the Resistance's commander where he just sits there.

I mean, technically, Knuckles being the Commander was more interesting since while he has the fortitude to play the part, the responsibility was cramping his style.  He would also occasionally go out on certain missions or battles that required his touch, while the Restoration is more geared towards rebuilding things that we really don't even get to hear about.

 

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