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Sonic Adventure Remake: Best Case Scenarios & Worst Case Scenarios

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Hello everyone, I don't really know if this topic belongs here so feel free to move it if it needs to be moved

Anyways, Sonic Adventure. I love that game, despite its flaws. Lately, I've noticed a lot of hype and speculation around a hypothetical "remake" of Sonic Adventure lately. It seems like whenever the Sonic social media updates you'll get a group of dedicated people demanding a remake or thinking that a remake is being teased. I don't really know what started this trend but it definitely exists.

I think it's easy to romanticize the vague idea of a remake but we have to admit there are a lot of ways it could go horribly wrong or amazingly right. I think it's important for us to actually get to the point of what we'd really want to see in a remake so I've made a list of my personal dream remake and nightmare remake scenarios.

SONIC ADVENTURE REMAKE - BEST CASE SCENARIO:

+ Game is rebuilt from the ground up and an artstyle is chosen that suits and respects the original aesthetic of Sonic Adventure (basically Unleashed/Generations style imo)

+ Remake acknowledges flaws and failings of the original and makes good attempts to resolve these issues in a smart way (e.g. Light Dash working the way it works in SA2)

+ Chao Garden is as good as it was in SA2 with a mobile companion app

+ Remake takes advantage of modern hardware to do things that weren't possible on Dreamcast due to hardware limitations or sheer time constraints (e.g. Perfect Chaos in generations looking more like his original concept art by Naoto Ohshima or fully playable Super Sonic in levels)

Spoiler

Related image Image result for perfect chaos concept art

Related image

+ Various minor QOL fixes. 

+ Bomb ass remixed soundtrack (this is a given) but also an option to switch to the original soundtrack (for nitpicky purists like me)

+ Boatload of cool extra content, like extra skins & costumes (I've noticed these are pretty big lately with stuff like Mario Odyssey, CTR Nitro Fueled and Spider-Man PS4 having loads of extra costumes. Sonic games don't really seem to make use of skins apart from SA2 and Sonic Runners)

+ Entirely New Zones. I don't really expect them to create new levels but it'd be a cool bonus.

SONIC ADVENTURE REMAKE - WORST CASE SCENARIO:

- Game makes no attempt to fix or rectify the failings of the original

- Misses the point of what made the original so appealing 

- Is a glitchy broken mess

- Unnecessary gimmicks shoehorned into the game with no rhyme or reason (e.g. Wisps for no reason)

- Feels like a soulless cash-grab designed to take advantage of people's nostalgia to provide a low quality product

- Chao Garden misses the point of what made it so special in the first place

- Bad physics. This time they will need to create actual 3D rolling physics. I know it is possible to have rolling physics in 3D:

  If Mario can do it, why can't Sonic?

 

Anyways that's all I got. Please let me know what sort of stuff you would want to see and what stuff you wouldn't want to see!

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I go back and forth on a lot of the specifics but while I want them to keep as much of the original in-tact as possible I also want them to go further than a reskin. Think about building a new game's worth of content around an old one and tweaking that old content so it's up to the same level of quality. All 6 characters and main scenarios stay, all stages stay too for the most part. That basic premise and all the features people expect like the chao garden and game gear games remain intact.

I don't mind them rethinking the physics and level design since I think you can do a lot better even acknowledging that I like the original game a lot. Just as long as you don't accidentally end up with something less fun.

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Even worse case scenario: it's basically the original in name only, kinda like the NARC remake. They put the levels in the Boost/Parkour engine and change the visual style and storyline. At best the story ends up like Forces, and at worst, Lost World or Shattered Crystal. Even worse than that; another cheap re-issue with bad filters and stuff. 

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I hope they take a big page from the Crash and Spyro remakes. As in, better not let Sonic Team do it, but a studio/team that really understand and liked the original game / Sonic in general.

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Worst case scenario: Sonic 4 quality execution.

And I'm already tired of all the Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 song remasters/rearragements/re-recordings...

Best case scenario: they will never do it, as SEGA would never allow it to be done in a way that does it justice. For one, we would never get back Ryan as Sonic.

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Best case scenario is they include the original game as a free download with purchase of the remake, maybe study the various fan mods of SADX to understand what fans care about in regard to purism on the original version to try and make it as faithful as possible rather than just throwing out another SADX port.

That's for the bonus pack-in original version.

 

For the real remake?  They need to approach it as a new game if they expect it to sell like a new game, for people beyond those who already love SA1. They should go back to their original design concepts and try and recall what their vision was, but when it comes to what actually shipped with SA1, nothing is precious. They should chop and screw as much as they like with anything that hasn't aged well, or is clashing with improvements elsewhere.  Example: People don't like Big's fishing for the most part. Can we make it fun enough to still be a mandatory portion of the game?  No?  Would resources spent building it as a side mini-game be better spent on making Sonic's gameplay even better?  Yes?  Fishing's gone.  Bye.  The original game hasn't gone anywhere.

Like, I dunno, I really enjoy Sonic Adventure but it's so much of a fixer-upper and we're so short in supply on good, new Sonic experiences, I'd kinda want them to make it feel like a new experience at this point.  I don't want them delicately going at this game with a sanding tool to smooth out the rough edges, I want them to take a sledgehammer to the thing.

 

The only condition I would set is that they should still have some kind of vision for the project overall that appeals to the same qualities that they can agree were appealing about the original game from both general and fan feedback (but general should probably take priority a bit if they want the game to sell well - again, fans will still play the original and will probably inevitably find a remake polarising).  So as an example, even I, as an Unleashed fan, would consider it silly to essentially just dress up a boost-gameplay level pack with Sonic Adventure aesthetics.  The fact that SA1 is a speedy but varied and (slightly) momentum based platformer is part of it's core appeal, and that's one of several "key Sonic Adventure things" they should regularly circle back on when they're rebuilding the game.

 

 

Unfortunately, I too, don't really trust the current Sonic Team to be able to deliver on such a project.  But part of that distrust does come from the ever-rotating cast of developers, maybe the next shuffle-around will have a bunch of really great designers, and either the budget or coding team (whichever is flawed) required to program more than the most basic of platforming movement mechanics.

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Far as 'm concerned,
best case scenerio: I'm getting a superior version of my favorite Sonic game.
Worst Alternative best case scenerio: I'm getting a first rank seat in observing Sonic Team's broken thoughtprocess.
And breaking down what's wrong with Sonic Team is as fun as actually playing most of the games.

With recent games, especially Forces, I get such strong suspicions that there used to be an entirely diffrent "early version" of the game that could have been endlessly better (Or worse)  then the weird wishy washy final product we got. So getting an oppurtunity to play a brand new Sonic game where we physically HAVE an earlier version will be a great oppurtunity to get an indepth look at Sonic Team's thoughtprocess. Picking this game apart might be as much fun as playing it is.
Whether Sonic Team managed to improve on the original, or not.

One interesting case with Sonic adventure is even during it's initial release, it kept changing in attitude and style.
From the beta Windy valley that's all colorful and cartoony, to the more gritty context driven Windy valley from the released game.
And then look at Sonic adventure DX making the graphics eve more realistic and gritty, especially the Station square buildings.
It's going to be interesting if a remake comes, if they'll continue that trend or will radically go back to the beta's attitude.

Sonic adventure is clearly designed to be a graphical showpiece. For the Sega Dreamcast, sure.  But Sa1's very nature is all about presenting as many oppurtunities to show off impressive graphics as possible, which I'm sure a next-gen graphic engine can use for it's advantage just as much. Hence why Iizuka is STILL dragging Chaos Zero around to show off improved water graphics.

And most of all, after a decade of many """"3d""" games, it'd be nice to play a modern 3d Sonic game that actually includes 3d gameplay. Good grief.
I doubt Sonic Team is savvy enough to include the Classic's pinball physics on top of that, they're probably having trouble enough to come up with 3d levels that aren't corridors leading to blocky 2d sections, but we'll see. It's nice to dream.
Indeed, hopefully they have a diffrent development team working on this, while Sonic Team is focusing on whatever mad concoction we'll be receiving next year for Sonic's anniversary.

I'm curious if they'd keep Eggman referring to himself as Dr. Robotnik in this potential remake. Probably not, altough with the movie using the Robotnik name again, it's possible I guess.

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2 hours ago, Roger_van_der_weide said:


Far as 'm concerned,
best case scenerio: I'm getting a superior version of my favorite Sonic game.
Worst Alternative best case scenerio: I'm getting a first rank seat in observing Sonic Team's broken thoughtprocess.
And breaking down what's wrong with Sonic Team is as fun as actually playing most of the games.

With recent games, especially Forces, I get such strong suspicions that there used to be an entirely diffrent "early version" of the game that could have been endlessly better (Or worse)  then the weird wishy washy final product we got. So getting an oppurtunity to play a brand new Sonic game where we physically HAVE an earlier version will be a great oppurtunity to get an indepth look at Sonic Team's thoughtprocess. Picking this game apart might be as much fun as playing it is.
Whether Sonic Team managed to improve on the original, or not.

One interesting case with Sonic adventure is even during it's initial release, it kept changing in attitude and style.
From the beta Windy valley that's all colorful and cartoony, to the more gritty context driven Windy valley from the released game.
And then look at Sonic adventure DX making the graphics eve more realistic and gritty, especially the Station square buildings.
It's going to be interesting if a remake comes, if they'll continue that trend or will radically go back to the beta's attitude.

Sonic adventure is clearly designed to be a graphical showpiece. For the Sega Dreamcast, sure.  But Sa1's very nature is all about presenting as many oppurtunities to show off impressive graphics as possible, which I'm sure a next-gen graphic engine can use for it's advantage just as much. Hence why Iizuka is STILL dragging Chaos Zero around to show off improved water graphics.

And most of all, after a decade of many """"3d""" games, it'd be nice to play a modern 3d Sonic game that actually includes 3d gameplay. Good grief.
I doubt Sonic Team is savvy enough to include the Classic's pinball physics on top of that, they're probably having trouble enough to come up with 3d levels that aren't corridors leading to blocky 2d sections, but we'll see. It's nice to dream.
Indeed, hopefully they have a diffrent development team working on this, while Sonic Team is focusing on whatever mad concoction we'll be receiving next year for Sonic's anniversary.

I'm curious if they'd keep Eggman referring to himself as Dr. Robotnik in this potential remake. Probably not, altough with the movie using the Robotnik name again, it's possible I guess.

Well when it comes to art style, they’d probably lean into the cartoonish direction. Sand Hill in TSR might be indicative, although hopefully the sand would look more like sand and less like frosting. Regardless of where things land on the spectrum, there’s no way we can expect the anime humans to return. 
 

This topic brings up a lot of aspects that invite further discussion. Chaos gets a little visceral as it grows, with nerves and bones showing. Women are seen sunbathing in bikinis around the pool. Would these aspects be retained, guaranteeing an E10+, - or would they be toned down somehow? Hopefully, and honestly probably, the former. Life, relatability, and grit. Let’s not avoid those entirely please. 

Then there aspects of the story that SEGA was wish-washy on the first time around, that they won’t be able to gloss over this time. Limited animation allowed them to dodge the question of whether the Chao were killed during the flashback scenes. And if the destruction of Station Square is recreated, I don’t see how they get around the implication of mass casualties. The city is empty when the flood begins, or there are people cheering for Sonic when he goes super. Pick one. 

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Best Case Scenario:

  • Get Bluepoint Games to develop the remake before they get acquired by Sony, so far there guys have been spot on with remasters so getting them to do it would make fans more accepting to the Remake
  • Make the Remake texture resemble the Dreamcast version while making to game graphically up to par with the Xbox Series X and PS5
  • If they are going to do the Chao Garden it shouldn't be restricted to just the SA1 remake, they should continue to support it with all future Sonic games going forward, and the Chao Garden should have Cross Platform support with  PC/Console/Mobile clients
  • Improve on the Gameplay elements that were flawed while keeping the elements that were right
  • They expand upon the story and not try to dumb it down
  • Great PC options like Graphical options that are better than consoles, uncapped frame rate without the frame rate being tied to the game logic
  • Official mod tools

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10 hours ago, JezMM said:

For the real remake?  They need to approach it as a new game if they expect it to sell like a new game, for people beyond those who already love SA1. They should go back to their original design concepts and try and recall what their vision was, but when it comes to what actually shipped with SA1, nothing is precious. They should chop and screw as much as they like with anything that hasn't aged well, or is clashing with improvements elsewhere.  Example: People don't like Big's fishing for the most part. Can we make it fun enough to still be a mandatory portion of the game?  No?  Would resources spent building it as a side mini-game be better spent on making Sonic's gameplay even better?  Yes?  Fishing's gone.  Bye.  The original game hasn't gone anywhere.

Like, I dunno, I really enjoy Sonic Adventure but it's so much of a fixer-upper and we're so short in supply on good, new Sonic experiences, I'd kinda want them to make it feel like a new experience at this point.  I don't want them delicately going at this game with a sanding tool to smooth out the rough edges, I want them to take a sledgehammer to the thing.

 

Big agree honestly

The more I think about it, the more I realize that I actually don't think I want a Sonic Adventure Remake. A new game should take priority.

They shouldn't blindly re-create Adventure, they need to re-create the feeling that Adventure gave.  

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It's a shame we have so much reason to be pessimistic, cuz the idea of a Sonic Adventure remake has a lot of potential. Compared to some of these HD remakes these days that try to update something that was fine how it was,  SA is an appealing game that has a LOT of room for improvement. I agree with everyone's sentiment here to reimagine the game and exentuate the appeal it had while massively retooling it's problems.

I find it really fun to imagine what those cutscenes would look like with good animation, direction, pacing and shot composition.

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Best case scenario: A remaimaginating of the game with improved gameplay styles that expand on the original concepts to create something brand new yet familiar.

 

Worst cade scenario. The same exact game just with shiny graphics and less glitches.

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Best case scenario: They remake it and it's everything you've ever wanted.

Worst case scenario: They remake it and while they deliver on the visuals/music (as it goes), it plays horribly and/or has horrible cutscenes. Fans put it in their own engine, slap the not-good-but-servicable dialogue into dubs over the cutscenes and it's good now. 

It's a win-win. There's nothing to lose!

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Best case scenario: they update all the graphics, fix all the bugs, maybe even add some new levels and polish up the gameplay and find some way around the more tedious parts (making them optional?). They could also add some new bonus missions or mini games to add more content and make it more appealing to people who already played the original, or use it as an excuse to add some Classic Sonic stuff since Sega really likes to do Classic Sonic fanservice now lol. I think it would be cool if they had the option of using the graphics from the Dreamcast, Director’s Cut, and the remastered graphics; perhaps even making the older graphics unlockable through the bonus missions or mini games. If Sega redoes all the lines with the new cast I’d also like to have the option of using the old voices. I also like the idea of a Chao Garden mobile app posted earlier in the thread, that would be a really good way of updating the VMU/GBA aspect of it imo.

 

Worst case scenario: they put out a rushed port that ends up adding more bugs and barely updates the graphics at all. They try to shove in the Boost gameplay, or 2D sections, or both. They try to force Classic Sonic into the main plot somehow.

 

It’s easy to be cynical at the idea of a SA1 remaster, and I honestly kind of am cynical about it myself given what Sega’s been putting out lately, but at the same time it really is fun to dream and imagine about what Sega could do if they did it right.

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Best case scenario is that it plays like the original with all the kinks ironed out. Art style would be relatively the same as back then. So no Pixar humans or much cartoonier worlds. Maybe even get some of the original Adventure-era cast like Drummond, Dreier and St. John. I'd love that at least.

Worst case for me is if they just remake it in Boost-style straight lines à la Forces.

On 1/19/2020 at 10:03 PM, Mr. Stinkhole said:

+ Remake takes advantage of modern hardware to do things that weren't possible on Dreamcast due to hardware limitations or sheer time constraints (e.g. Perfect Chaos in generations looking more like his original concept art by Naoto Ohshima)

Absolutely disagree with this. Fully water Perfect Chaos was way better than the Generations look.

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A remake at this point would just reinforce my suspicion that they don't have a future for the franchise, so they're desperately clutching into its past and shoving elements of it into our faces out of desperation.

"Remember 2D gameplay? Well here is a ton of it even in a 3D game, because we can't figure out how to make Sonic work well in 3D!"

"Remember those old classic stages from the good old games? Well here they are, again and again and again, because we can't come up with interesting new stages anymore!"

"Remember how the old Sonic character design looked? Well here he is, again and again and again!"

The few times they try something new always ends up so misguided, they quickly go back to yank something out of the past games to try and "fix" things.

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On 1/19/2020 at 6:34 PM, Almar said:

The worst case is that they pull a Sonic X and try to actually make Two-Worlds be a thing in it.

I think it could be doable for SA1, but SA2 would be the real mess of trying to keep that going. Doesn't mean I want that though.

On 1/20/2020 at 2:52 AM, Tarnish said:

And I'm already tired of all the Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 song remasters/rearragements/re-recordings...

Unless I'm missing something wasn't it mostly in Generations? The only others I can think of are Episode Shadow and some cameos in TSR and Twitter. I really like the vibe of Shadow's SA2 songs, although admittedly most remixes try to remix that out of the song. It'd be interesting to see the reverse for a change with a newer song in that style.

On 1/19/2020 at 4:03 PM, Mr. Stinkhole said:

+ Game is rebuilt from the ground up and an artstyle is chosen that suits and respects the original aesthetic of Sonic Adventure (basically Unleashed/Generations style imo)

(e.g. Perfect Chaos in generations looking more like his original concept art by Naoto Ohshima or fully playable Super Sonic in levels)

 If Mario can do it, why can't Sonic?

- I think it'd be interesting to see a take on the 2D promo art, but I could see that turning out very badly if done wrong. (cel shading, thick lines, etc.) Probably better to play it safe in that sense than have people complain the visuals ruined it.
- The original concept art is gorgeous, I always enjoy seeing it. Same with SA2 the level of detail is amazing, it would be cool if they could add some of that instead of the low quality textures as I think it would make the stages look even better. Although comparing the two, Perfect Chaos looks almost a bit too intense, maybe they could go in the middle to get closer to the original art while still being intimating.
- Because Mario has a different dev team than Sonic. Playing Odyssey I instantly thought why isn't Sonic at this level yet?

Unrelated, but if SA1 and SA2 remakes gave both Knuckles stages the radar for all emerald pieces, I think an optional no radar hard mode would be interesting to really test your knowledge of the pieces.

On 1/20/2020 at 6:15 AM, Roger_van_der_weide said:

I'm getting a first rank seat in observing Sonic Team's broken thoughtprocess.
And breaking down what's wrong with Sonic Team is as fun as actually playing most of the games.

And then look at Sonic adventure DX making the graphics eve more realistic and gritty, especially the Station square buildings.

I kind of agree that I find that part interesting as well. With the newer games I always wonder what could have been, but in this case we'd have a flat out comparison. If it's more like Generations though, that's not really my style. I think people remember the best parts for boost games, which is ironic as Adventure fans are often accused of the same thing. At least Adventure could actually stick to 3D.

After playing the dreamcast mod, I must say I disagree. Maybe for the textures but the lighting on Sonic made him look very plastic and fake. I much prefer the dreamcast lighting there. I say that having played the DX version more.

As for me, best case we get a good remake, worst case we get a good soundtrack and the original still exists.

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Being completely honest, I rather they make a new game that revisits the best of Sonic Adventure + new stuff instead of a complete remake/remaster of it. 

Have Sonic go back to Station Square, Emerald Coast, Windy Valley... Re-imagine these zones, modernize them (and give Sonic a reason to revisit them too, even if it's something as simple as "going on a vacation at the beach"). On top of that, a new plot and new places to find. Somewhere beyong Mystic Ruins maybe? Who knows. Pick the main characters (minus Big) and improve their gameplay, but keep the design philosophy, full 3D levels with plenty of platforming and open areas instead of corridors. Maybe give Knuckles a bit more of combat gameplay, Amy a bit more of stealth gameplay. Improve Big's fishing and make it a funny mini-game.

It's not hard, they just need the will and the right people to do it.

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Adventure One has Echidna ruins be within train distance of a human filled city and Tikal speak of Chaos destroying the world once (not two worlds). It's not more doable at all when it comes to Two-Worlds. Not to mention Naka talking about how the bigger presence of humans linked to Sonic moving away from the islands or other lands the Genesis games happened in towards Station Square.

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1 hour ago, DryLagoon said:

Unless I'm missing something wasn't it mostly in Generations? The only others I can think of are Episode Shadow and some cameos in TSR and Twitter. I really like the vibe of Shadow's SA2 songs, although admittedly most remixes try to remix that out of the song. It'd be interesting to see the reverse for a change with a newer song in that style.

- Black Knight had some remixes that were at least new takes on the songs (Tails' SA1 theme had 2 remixes)
- Generations
- Lost World had Tails' SA2 theme remix
- We had the SA2 Sonic's theme 2014 remix
- Forces had some SA2 remixes
- We had the S.A.M.E. (Sonic Adventure Music Experience or whatever) versions of a few songs
- We had a few smaller songs in the Racing games
- We had a few in the Mario & Sonic games

We already have 3 versions of Supporting Me and 4 versions (or 5 if you count the final lap version in TSR) of Seaside Hill (I know it's from Heroes, but still)...I wonder if Jun is getting tired of this or not.
 

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1 hour ago, Almar said:

Adventure One has ... Tikal speak of Chaos destroying the world once (not two worlds).

Well yeah Chaos can't teleport across dimensions or anything, it can only destroy the one world that it's in.

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Can someone link me to any and all the sources that they know of that officially talk about the whole "two worlds" bollocks? I don't actually recall exactly what was officially said. I've heard so different things... Sometimes it comes from leaked documents, sometimes from interviews/QAS with Iizuka, sometimes it's comic mandates and sometimes its just what a friend of a friend of some random idiot on Twitter said.

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