Jump to content
Mr. Stinkhole

Sonic Adventure Remake: Best Case Scenarios & Worst Case Scenarios

Recommended Posts

34 minutes ago, Fire-N-Space said:

If Sonic Adventure gets remade Sonic Team should do it to cut down on the confusion about how it gets precedented.

What do you mean by that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

What do you mean by that?

3rd party Sonic games tend to have bugs and development problems like with the Boom series, All Star series and Sonic's movie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Fire-N-Space said:

3rd party Sonic games tend to have bugs and development problems like with the Boom series, All Star series and Sonic's movie.

Oh, very good point. Didn't know the All-star games were buggy, but then it's a good thing Zavok is not afraid of heights.

I like how the movie is listed as a 3d party game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gonna make one last case against any of the stories being optional before I bow out of this thread:

The idea seems to be that not enough people got access to Sonic Adventure's final segment for one reason or another, or at least that we should make adjustments so that more people have access to it, but I don't consider the game's intro a promise to everyone who starts playing that they'll get to see something cool. It's more like a tease to set seeds for payoff later. But for payoff to be worthwhile there has to be buildup, and I feel like cutting even a few of the stories lessons the impact of the game's final sequence where all the characters are present. 

That's not even getting into how the Chaos situation is put into the back seat for the development of the characters anyway. None of the stories provide a definitive conclusion to the Chaos situation on their own which would just encourage a curious player to play the game more to search for answer. Sonic probably has the best view of the entire situation in his story and he leaves Knuckles to deal with Chaos while he chases Eggman. 

This just highlights how none of the stories are really about Chaos. All of the characters have a goal independant of stopping Chaos that they end up achieving first. Sonic leaves Chaos to stop Eggman and goes home after he does it. Knuckles restores the Master Emerald and calls it a day. Tails and Amy get to flex their independence, Gamma ends the Eseries and Big gets his best buddy out of this whole mess and back home. Chaos is what the game is building toward but each story arc is designed to feel conclusive in it's own right too.

Viewed through this context none of the stories can really be considered filler unless you consider all of them such. They all have details about Chaos and Tikal's backstory that feed into the finale, but are largely about unrelated goals that the characters need to fulfill. Chaos is a catalyst for a lot of what happens in the game but for the large majority of time you spend with it you're dealing with character driven stuff that could be considered filler. I also couldn't help but notice a healthy amount of bias regarding what is and isn't filler content from person to person. Gamma is pretty far removed from Sonic both story wise and mechanically but with loose reasoning he's considered a must.

This is why trying to divide the story up into plot vs filler doesn't really work. I'd argue it basically doesn't work at all for any story but that's a whole other discussion. 

I'd be open to a lot of changes being made about the story and the gameplay to tighten up any pacing issues or make some situations more relevant but Sonic Adventure really isn't a very long game anyway and the content rarely approaches feeling repetitive. It's why I was surprised to see talk of streamlining coming up first. It's one of the leaner games in the 3D series without feeling outright lacking. The game isn't asking for a whole lot of your time and your patience as is to see the conclusion. I'd be much be interested in talk about adding bonus content like in Jez's post above but that can't really go anywhere if people already think the original game is too much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/25/2020 at 2:19 PM, JezMM said:

but then the remainder of the cut-scenes dialogue "hand over those emeralds" "no way" etc would play during the boss battle.

For minor parts it's okay, but I think for important scenes that this is a bad idea. For example there were some voice lines you'd have to play the Final Hazard boss 3+ minutes to hear, which is unrealistic for most players. I think in situations like that adding those lines to a cutscene would have helped avoid confusion about what happened.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DryLagoon said:

For minor parts it's okay, but I think for important scenes that this is a bad idea. For example there were some voice lines you'd have to play the Final Hazard boss 3+ minutes to hear, which is unrealistic for most players. I think in situations like that adding those lines to a cutscene would have helped avoid confusion about what happened.

This idea is only in reference to cut-scenes that are shared across multiple stories and the player has already seen in another character's story. It would never happen with anything the player hasn't already heard on another character's story and... is purely only suggested in the context of Sonic Adventure where some scenes play out 3-4 times over a playthrough of all stories.  It's a minor solution to a minor problem anyhow, I only came up with it as an extension of people's frustrations about the repeat Chaos 4/Sky Chase gameplay.

As said, this doesn't account for a huge amount of cut-scenes anyway - just stuff like the pre-Knuckles fight, pre-Chaos 4 fight, pre-Gamma fight. The stuff that these cut-scenes cover could easily be covered in the first few seconds of the fight. Heck it might even make more sense that way, than characters yelling "Let's fight!" while standing around in their idle poses for 10 seconds straight. Likewise for Sonic and Tails discussing their next move during adventure field gameplay rather than standing around talking about it too (example: the post-Emerald Coast cut-scene could pretty much end after Tails shows off the chaos emerald, from that point on they're just talking and you might as well give control back to the player, only the most adamant of speedrunners would make it to the train before they finish talking).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DryLagoon said:

For minor parts it's okay, but I think for important scenes that this is a bad idea. For example there were some voice lines you'd have to play the Final Hazard boss 3+ minutes to hear, which is unrealistic for most players. I think in situations like that adding those lines to a cutscene would have helped avoid confusion about what happened.

To be a little fair, Final Hazard could be a bitch sometimes.

Plus, I'd like if some of the character driven fights had dialogue going on throughout. Make it feel more personable and even exciting even if the fight itself is a bit lacking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Jango said:

All this talk about SA story only made me realize... The plot makes no fucking sense whatsover.

Plot: Eggman releases water god, Sonic defeats it. It uses the Chaos Emeralds to transform, Super Sonic beats it.

Lore revelation: It has connections to the Master Emerald, we learn about that and Knuckles by Proxy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, wait. It was all Eggman's fault. Chaos went on a rampage in the last story after been beaten several times by Sonic and co. because Eggman kept making him fight. Up untill that point Chaos didn't displayed any will, he was just a mindless minion. All the beating probably brough back the awfull memory of the Equidna tribe attacking him in the past. Oh, snap. Fucking Eggman. Also, it wasn't Eggman who released Chaos, was it? It's every explained why the M.E. broke?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Jango said:

Actually, wait. It was all Eggman's fault. Chaos went on a rampage in the last story after been beaten several times by Sonic and co. because Eggman kept making him fight. Up untill that point Chaos didn't displayed any will, he was just a mindless minion. All the beating probably brough back the awfull memory of the Equidna tribe attacking him in the past. Oh, snap. Fucking Eggman. Also, it wasn't Eggman who released Chaos, was it? It's every explained why the M.E. broke?

I was under the impression he was listening to Eggman because he was feeding him Chaos Emeralds, but that works too. Even if they attacked Tikal and the Chao rather than Chaos himself, who slaughtered them seemingly within moments of revealing himself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What... How? Knuckles is monologuing and then bam. What the hell. We never even see his ship nearby or him sneaking behind Knuckles with a bomb... Or whatever he used to break that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Jango said:

What... How? Knuckles is monologuing and then bam. What the hell. We never even see his ship nearby or him sneaking behind Knuckles with a bomb... Or whatever he used to break that. 

At the very beginning of Knuckles story, you see the Egg Carrier approaching Angel Island.

While never shown, it's inferrable that he either shot it from there or had an E-Series snipe it.

Interestingly enough, the credits do show Gamma hovering over the shattered Emerald.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sonic Adventure has too many fundemental flaws to be remade. The most obvious offender is Big, you couldn't make his stages entertaining unless you completely redesign his gameplay, goals and movement from the groundup. While not as dramatic, Amy and Knuckles also have uninteresting level goals which are either not fleshed out and simplistic (Knuckles) and utterly tedious (Amy). If you redesign all of these characters then you are straying so far from the game's original concept that you aren't doing a remake but a spiritual successor. If you are taking that route you mighy as well make a new game.

The game also has boring concepts which have aged badly. For a key example, the Hub World has nothing to do and just interrupts the action stages. The only actual things to do are the puzzles, which barely warrant being called that (pick up a stone key and take it to somewhere with little indication). The reason the Tikal orb exists is to solve how cryptic the hub world is, but that defeats the whole purpose of the puzzle. There's also emblem collection, which no one talks about because it's boring filler.

If they want to return to Adventure, they should take the Sonic stage design and build something new out of it. Sonic Adventure isn't like Crash, Spyro, Ratchet etc, it doesn't just need new graphics, animations and extras like new characters and levels, it needs to be fundamentally redesigned in many aspects to meet modern standards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Best Case: I get a game that not only returns to what I like about Sonic but also made by people who truly understand why people love the Adventure games. With touch ups that fixes issues like vocals timing so there aren’t any awkward pauses between lines.

Worst Case: They make it where it’s a boost fest and the game is done within 3 hours.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A random thought I had for Knuckles's stages while yelling at a friend about SA1 Remake today:

Drop the random spawn locations entirely and treat them more as 3 set goals Knuckles has to reach, but placed in such a way that they can be reached nonlinearly. Keep some of that open endedness but also add some structure and level design to it all so he's not just flailing around in a box sniffing for the objective. This could go hand in hand with reworked gliding and climbing abilities suggested by others in other topics to create a more linear platforming game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That'd be nice, the 5th Rank missions from Sa2 were on to something (not in that game's design, that was actually pretty negative because they were easier).

Why would they be in random locations anyway? That seems like something you'd do for a challenge mission.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Why would they be in random locations anyway? That seems like something you'd do for a challenge mission.

My guess is that it encourages replayability. THe stages as they are are pretty small and simple as they are so a little bit of randomness at least adds something to shake things up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm necroing a thread, I know but I gotta get this off my chest. 

 

I kind of gotta balance this between my own expectations and what's actually practical; but assuming the gameplay is exactly as it was, I want them to add a few things from the Modern games, namely from Generations. Like, the addition of the stomp, and the one button light attack from later games but mapped to a different button so you don't die from simple shit. Also some power ups from SA2 like the bounce attack as well. 

I don't want to just keep the same gameplay, but I want to refine it and somewhat improve it too without removing what made it enjoyable for people as well. This is off the top of my head right now, I gotta brainstorm more. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

You must read and accept our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy to continue using this website. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.