At this point, what is keeping other characters from being playable in the main modern Sonic games?

[DabigRG]

@thumbs13Don't mind that one. 

 

1 hour ago, Scritch the Cat said:

Plus, back then power players like Yuji Naka were still around.  Maybe they’ve hired a suitable replacement programmer, but with how little physics have mattered since, it’s hard to tell.

While I won’t point the finger too heavily at Iizuka, it seems obvious that SOMEONE in an administrative role has to answer for a glaring ethical problem.  I could take SEGA more at its word that everything after Sonic 06 was born of a sincere attempt to evade that debacle, if not for two cases since of them not evading it.  The biggest problems of both Sonic 4: Episode I and Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric are due to the same thing that killed Sonic 2006; SEGA rushing the game out to meet a deadline, even if they obviously aren’t done.  

Given those shenanigans, you could argue there’s a reason SEGA isn’t aiming higher with its Sonic games, but it’s a reason that wouldn’t fly with many other developers.  It’d fly with EA certainly, but Nintendo would declare it a massive violation of Shigeru Miyamoto’s most famous dictum, and glaring proof that this dictum is correct.

I’m not sure why you feel the movie ISN’T just a simplified version of what came before, and much of what sets it apart is “fresh” in about the same way as Shadow the Hedgehog was; that is, a cartoon character going to the human world meeting a live-action human sidekick is new to this series but it’s a movie cliche.

I’m not saying the film will suck, and it’s promoters certainly seem to believe in their vision more than Sonic Team has believed in their vision for any game in years, but that doesn’t mean the vision’s actually good.

Those are interesting discrepancies between companies and approaches.

I guess you can indeed say the movie generally went all in from start to possible finish, even if some of it ranged from a tad standard to not all that pretty.

Also, the possible Refuge in Audacity that may be it's release date.

[Scritch the Cat]

1 hour ago, Miragnarok said:

Because there's no Wisps, Zavok, etc. NONE of that. It also has all-new settings, villains, etc. 

 

1 hour ago, thumbs13 said:

Ignoring the fact that a movie not having gameplay mechanics should be a given, the villains are the U.S military and Eggman. We've been getting that for years.

That, and it’s not as if those contentious elements are the only things in the games absent from the movie.  In fact, while I’m obviously not one to treat every complaint about Sonic as innately valid, all of those colorful aliens were likely added as a response to backlash that realistic humans got in earlier games for being too jarring and boring.

[Almar]

We already had a short with Sonic in a modern and human filled city (Man of the Year).

 

2 hours ago, Scritch the Cat said:

 

That, and it’s not as if those contentious elements are the only things in the games absent from the movie.  In fact, while I’m obviously not one to treat every complaint about Sonic as innately valid, all of those colorful aliens were likely added as a response to backlash that realistic humans got in earlier games for being too jarring and boring.

Although the ones who said such had a habit of belonging to the "Sonic should be Planet of the Furries ala SatAM ugh humans with cities" crowd.

[Volcan Pacaya]

59 minutes ago, Almar said:

Although the ones who said such had a habit of belonging to the "Sonic should be Planet of the Furries ala SatAM ugh humans with cities" crowd.

I'd be in favour of occasional random background anthros just for the sake of consistency in the series' world-building.

As for the "no humans with cities" crowd: Robotnik isn't a Mobian Badger and Star Light Zone is a city.

[DabigRG]

1 minute ago, Volcan Pacaya said:

 Robotnik isn't a Mobian Badger

That's deepcut. That's a deepcut reference.

1 minute ago, Volcan Pacaya said:

Star Light Zone is a city.

Yeah, that is pretty egregious if true.

[Almar]

Oh I know both. Eggman always got treated as some weird exception who doesn't mean anything. You can throw in the statue in Wacky Workbench past and Sandopolis' hieroglyphics too.

No doubt it connects with how more or less all the Western versions of Sonic went with the post-apocalyptic Planet of the Furries interpretation enough times that the You Know Whos were warped into demanding Sonic reflect this version rather than accept Naka's vision (which is that Sonic's series happens on Earth but fantastical). I seriously doubt that we would've got the Two-Worlds retcon and Sonic Forces if Sonic Team hadn't been trying to pander that crowd (among the overall complaints about 3D Sonic's clashing tone and visual).

[Tarnish]

12 hours ago, Miragnarok said:

Case in point; the movie. It looks so, so fresh.

Fresh? Eh...compared to what?

The concept is not fresh at all. Sonic in a human world? Not new, done that multiple times now. We had an entire animated series around that concept.

Sonic is an alien from another world? Been there, done that, again, had an entire animated series about it.

Live action comedy film with a CGI anthro character? Pretty sure that's not new either, we had Hop in 2011 if nothing else.

Sonic with a comedic tone? The past decade's of games were like that...sure, the quality was bottom of the barrel, but still, not new to Sonic.

 

So I don't really get what feels fresh here. Probably any kind of Sonic movie would feel fresh because it's the first Sonic movie.

[StaticMania]

Fresh as in, it's stripped of everything besides Sonic and Eggman.

No baggalage.

For whatever that's worth.

[Tarnish]

1 hour ago, StaticMania said:

Fresh as in, it's stripped of everything besides Sonic and Eggman.

No baggalage.

For whatever that's worth.

So, basically, a Sonic 4 approach. Yet, that didn't feel fresh to me at all. It felt barebones if anything.

[DabigRG]

I would like to note that I was humoring Scritch there, as I'm personally not intending to watch the movie except maybe as a cover for something else.

Just felt like supporting somebody who seemingly likes or at least feels positive about something, you know?

[expansivelovestories]

There really is a specific aspect, that they had not yet (although maybe it is happening as we speak!) found the 3D level design genius/geniuses who can help produce a full game's worth of compelling and functional environments! 

In some ways, making the zones into true environments, however in the world that is possible, will naturally have spaces for and really welcome the additional characters to be part of them; it is just a true puzzle and journey getting there! 

[Multikaris]

8 hours ago, Tarnish said:

So, basically, a Sonic 4 approach. Yet, that didn't feel fresh to me at all. It felt barebones if anything.

Except, unlike Sonic 4, this adds new content instead of just leaving it barebones. 

[Wraith]

The film can only be considered fresh if you somehow skipped the last 20 years of big budget live action cinema geared toward kids. It's comically derivative if you've seen even one of those movies. When you're like me and couldn't get enough of the stuff when I was younger your eyes just gloss over if you see footage.

[Scritch the Cat]

5 hours ago, DabigRG said:

I would like to note that I was humoring Scritch there, as I'm personally not intending to watch the movie except maybe as a cover for something else.

Just felt like supporting somebody who seemingly likes or at least feels positive about something, you know?

I think Sonic fans probably feel good to be in another time when Sonic is getting a lot of media attention that isn’t primarily negative.  I don’t feel they’re doing enough with this movie, just having it be Sonic vs Robotnik (such as he is reconceived here) would still leave it feeling bare even if they were constantly funny.  But I do get the feeling that if this was a video game, the relevant media would snipe at it simply for being a game with those characters.  Even a good review wouldn’t lack a reference to how Sonic went through a bad period.  With this movie, problematic  as it may be, at the very least the loudest voices aren’t tying its problems to the fact that it stars Sonic.  If only because it reminds film writers more of past family films than past Sonic things.

[Multikaris]

29 minutes ago, Wraith said:

The film can only be considered fresh if you somehow skipped the last 20 years of big budget live action cinema geared toward kids. It's comically derivative if you've seen even one of those movies. When you're like me and couldn't get enough of the stuff when I was younger your eyes just gloss over if you see footage.

I'm only comparing to Sonic media.

[Diogenes]

Sonic fights Robotnik while a useless human stands around isn't fresh.

[Multikaris]

Just now, Diogenes said:

Sonic fights Robotnik while a useless human stands around isn't fresh.

Hasn't been done in 14+ years, though. Unlike Mania.

[thumbs13]

Honestly all this talk is doing is reminding me how weird it is that Sonic of all characters is teaming up with a cop. That doesn't fit him at all.

[Scritch the Cat]

1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

Sonic fights Robotnik while a useless human stands around isn't fresh.

I can’t help but notice that Tom is increasingly downplayed in this movie’s promotional material.

[DabigRG]

1 hour ago, thumbs13 said:

Honestly all this talk is doing is reminding me how weird it is that Sonic of all characters is teaming up with a cop. That doesn't fit him at all.

Yeah, that is true. Could also be the point though.

Tom is primarily there as a surrogate for the audience.

[thumbs13]

33 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Yeah, that is true. Could also be the point though.

Tom is primarily there as a surrogate for the audience.

Yeah, but he's a cop. Chris was an audience surrogate not at all relatable to the audience either, but he was at least a child and not an authority figure. 

[DabigRG]

1 hour ago, thumbs13 said:

Yeah, but he's a cop. Chris was an audience surrogate not at all relatable to the audience either, but he was at least a child and not an authority figure. 

And Jim Carrey is Robotnik. I'm not sure the movie is completely aiming for 2010 era kids.

 

[Diogenes]

Tom is there for parents to empathize with as he deals with a small, annoying, hyperactive person.

[Razule]

Tom's for the adults, Sonic's for the kids.

[StaticMania]

36 minutes ago, Razule said:

Tom's for the adults, Sonic's for the kids.

That's the best way to write characters like this.