Sonics Colors is Garbage and here's why

[Wraith]

*are




It's hard not to see Sonic's selection of color palattes in the Smash bros series as emblematic of it's relationship with the franchise overall. There are rumblings that Sonic isn't allowed to be portrayed as a different color than blue, so the team went with variants with emphasis on accessories to tell the difference. This is as good of a solution as you can ask for but I feel like this is an example of Sega's mandates harming the gameplay. It got a little confusing when there were four Sonics around. Most other characters in Smash have bold, distinct color pallets for alternate costumes.

In Super Smash Bros Brawl's sequel, Smash 4, they loosened up on this. The alts are more distinct with a few of them having different primary colors for Sonic entirely. There's still more blue than I'd like but there's a little more variety here. The "Crystal Ring" alt and the purple alt that I like to read as a NiGHTS reference were my favorites. 

 

Ultimate reuses a lot of content from Smash 4 so the skins are ultimately the same. 

Still though I can't help but wonder how much Sega's influence hangs over his depiction in this series and how much of it is the creative team's own decisions. I'm sure both Sonic themed stages wouldn't have basically been the same without outside influence but I wonder if it was Sega or Sakurai pushing for Windy Hill in the game. Smash Bros usually goes to the latest game nowadays for stages so they can reuse the high quality assets without having to make new ones, so that's the most likely answer, but advertising the latest game works out pretty conveniently well for Sega too. Either way the lack of variety is disappointing as a fan of the franchise's various locales. And then there's the obvious topic of music selection. The Smash franchise is basically a dream for any VGM enthusiast as great composers from all across the industry come together to provide spins on eachother's work, but Sonic, one of the most acclaimed VGM collections around, is left out of this fun for reasons nobody is quite able to parse. Sakurai has hinted in the past that any lacking musical selection is usually down to the IP holder's restrictions. Most people have made the obvious connection with Final Fantasy's lack of music but Sonic fans have been wondering about our team as well. Sakurai went as far as to contact Jun Senoue and Tomoya Ohtani to do remixes for the latest game, so he's aware of their popularity as composers, but Sonic still remains largely untouched by anyone. It's a strange and sad situation, especially since Nintendo basically let Sega's sound team have access to the entire Mario library for the Olympic games to excellent results. 

Now and again the idea of another Sonic character in Smash gets floated around. I don't expect this to ever realistically happen but it's fun to think about. Knuckles and Shadow would be my go-tos as a fan even if they're a little basic. One of my biggest beefs when it comes to actually playing as Sonic is his lack of kill power and one of the "sonic but stronger" archetypes would help with that while retaining some of his fun movement. I'd prefer Shadow for personal reasons though. Eggman would offer a lot more variety than anyone else as he has shown he's basically capable of creating anything in the games. Deeper cuts like Amy or Blaze that I'd really like are basically guaranteed not to happen but it's fun to think about mechanics like Amy's hammer jump and Blaze being able to overload her boost meter in that context. 

Overall though I'm glad Sonic himself is in the game at all even if his content isn't my favorite to mess around with. You could nitpick Smash as a piece of fanservice in a lot of ways but it's important to stop and appreciate the insane amount of work that went into what we have just the same. Sonic's reveal is still one of my favorite game trailers and while there obviously wasn't enough time to give him a more substantial role in the story mode having him save the day at the end serves as a nice apology.
 

Spoiler

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgcpmI9h9BQ

 

Sonic's animations were a little rough in his debut but they've spent the past two game tightening up his design and animations to the point where it's one of my favorite versions of the character to look at.  There are a lot of callbacks in the way Sonic animates without completely regressing the character to his sprite like they did with Megaman. It's a good mix of old and new that keeps fans of all stripes happy.

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

He's just bouncy and expressive with lots of little subtle animation tricks and tweaks the modern Sonic games don't do. THere's also little references hidden all over his moveset from obvious things like the hands on the hip pose/idle animation being a send up to the classic titles and attacks being inspired by the Sonic fighting games. You can tell that the animation team has a lot of enthusiasm for the character. 

It also can't be understated how much his moveset has been tightened up game after game. Sonic having two spindashes has always been a point of contention but I feel like it's gotten to the point where it works well enough that I wouldn't change it all that much. Both side B and down B are  distinct and it overall keeps that simplicity that's at the core of the character's movement. Other tweaks like Homing Attack's wind up time being shaved off make him a much snappier, more aggressive character than when he debuted.

It's a shame Ultimate dropped the trophy collection aspect because I had a lot of fun collecting them. It was nice to have a more tangible piece of my favorite characters in the game in some small way. 

Spoiler

 

 

What do you think of Sonic's representation in Smash? What kind of additions would you make in your wildest dreams?

[Milo]

lmao, kudos to you @Wraith for that beautiful thread title

I guess in terms of gameplay, Sonic is...alright, I guess? Don't really have much complaints or praises to offer, but then again I don't really play as him much. The one thing I do agree on is that he doesn't really have any attacks that can kill below very high percents, which is probably a key reason why I don't play him much. Sometimes I think changing it so that he doesn't have two spindashes would be a decent change, I feel that his Down-B could had been a counter move--although reading video analyses of his moveset, it's been argued that his spindashes have had *some* differences to them that are good for mixups, so I can let it slide. I do like his Homing Attack change, it's good that it can be delayed, which besides being more powerful is also long enough to bait some opponent reactions and react accordingly. The Genesis Sonic fan in me would also maybe suggest having his character movement be more momentum/physics oriented in movement but I don't know how feasible that can be applied while keeping it in the constraints of the game.

His series representation though is a different story though, which in Smash 4 was so disappointingly pedestrian that I didn't think I would care much if Sonic wasn't brought back for Ultimate because it would had been more of the same (and lo and behold, it mostly is). It's really incredible (in the worst way) how we've had three games with Sonic so far but only one music remix from his introduction (which was a late addition to the game IIRC), and it's even more appalling that they were able to get Sonic composers to do remixes for other franchises but they (nor anyone else) can do the same for Sonic. Of all the new stages we could have had for Smash 4, they chose Windy Hill for the Wii U version, even though it's a Green Hill clone and they already brought Green Hill brought back for the 3DS version; and now in Ultimate we have only both of those stages. This also is reflected with the Assist Trophies--there's quite a bit you could do with Shadow and there are already plenty of assist trophies from other games with slowdown effects, but they use his Chaos Control ability to add yet another slowdown effect and --worse-- it's probably the most generic implementation out of all of them. Thankfully there's Knuckles' inclusion as an Assist Trophy in Ultimate, which is more inspired with him as a assisting brawler with his own Homing Attack ability.

The alternative character designs are probably what irk me the most, which feel uninspired to the point that it feels corporate-mandated in the worst of ways. Between the spinoffs and even mainline games where you've had Sonic's attire or design changed up, there's so much you could do before needing to resort to slight color shades and bracelets--SOAP shoes from Adventure 2, his sunglasses and sports sneakers from Riders, the scarf and bandages from the Boom series, even having Metal Sonic as a skin would suffice. That's not even getting into the lack of a Genesis/Classic Sonic skin, which to me is the biggest missed opportunity. Whether its having properties of the Genesis design as a skin (same proportions, but with black eyes, soleless shoes, lighter blue fur if required) or actually having that design* as a secondary design, like with Wario's SMB clothes. *I'm pretty sure that the existing character profiles for Sonic prior to Generations have consistently put him at the same height across most games, regardless of his design. I'd argue the height differences between the Genesis/Millenium Sonic designs in Generations and Forces was a change specifically made to enforce the segregation of the two designs as different characters; which is something I don't think should be adhered to, especially for a fanservice/franchise celebration game like Smash Bros. anyway.

In terms of additional playable characters--I don't think its possible as the recent DLC for Ultimate has been focused on mostly new IPs that haven't gotten any representation in Smash (emphasis on mostly, I know the whole hulabaloo with Byleth), but I would personally prefer Eggman getting in above the others. I think he make a pretty great guest fighter with all of the mechanics that have used for his many machines, and it would be nice to have another villain in the playable roster. People have said Bowser Jr./the Koopalings already used the "piloting machine" concept with their Clown Car (and to a lesser extent, Dr. Wily has also been added in as an Assist Trophy with a mech), so adding Eggman with his Egg Mobile as a fighter he risks coming off as a clone/echo fighter; but I personally don't really care about him being a clone if he is still a fun character to play. I mean, if you can incorporate Eggman as a fighter well enough that his moveset is clearly distinct from Jr./Koopalings, go ahead (and I think the Smash Bros. development could definitely do that if given the chance), but I would still be happy with the alternative. Of course, they could also just have him appearing in a varied selection of machines from his games as an Assist Trophy, which I also would be fine with; but that (of course) hasn't happened for some reason.

With all that said though, the short of it is that Sonic's moveset/gameplay is fine, but the way he and his franchise is showcased in Smash Bros is not fine. It really does feel like whoever was responsible for supervising Sonic's inclusion of Smash from Brawl was replaced with Smash 4 and Ultimate, and they've either lent the Smash Bros. developers a bizarrely short creative leash, or have been dealt one from Sega/Sonic Team themselves. It's very lame and I hope the person/people/policies in place than enforce this take a hike if they even bother. It really is bordering to the effect that if this is the extent the series' talents are to be used, I'd rather Sonic isn't brought back for the next Smash game at all.

[DryLagoon]

Normally I just default to "Shadow as an echo fighter" but you bring up a good point about Eggman. A lot of new villains were added in Smash Ult so I do think he'd be a good choice to go with if not Shadow as an echo. He has so many bosses to draw inspiration from too. His ultimate could be either something involving Metal Sonic or maybe the Ark's giant laser firing at the players in an over the top style while Eggman gives one of his laughs.

[DabigRG]

Go home Lily, you're drunk.

[dbzfan7]

Eggman...Shadow....Knuckles....eh......

ALWAYS BET ON TAILS!!! Aerial skill check, gadgets check, speed check, unorthodox mixed fighting check, trapper check, etc. In just SSF2 he's like Sonic, Kirby, Snake, Link, and Olimar rolled into ONE character. The amount of utility and mobility is nuts. He was the top tier and still is a top tier character even now. The most insane open playground of a character.

On Sonic's colors it would have been nice maybe if we just had him emulate the others or even get to wear their apparel at least. So when red he gets Knuckles shoes, Yellow Tails, Pink Amy, etc. Something like that.

[King Scoopa Koopa]

Well, this isn't what I thought it would be.

[Multikaris]

Well:

* Rrrrrobotnik and probably either Shadow and/or Classic as additional fighters

* Blaze, Metal Sonic, and Infinite as Assist Trophies

* A third stage to represent the Dreamcast era, along with a more distinct Modern era stage. Chemical Plant feels like a must, too. Maybe also a second Dreamcast stage if we keep Windy Hill? 

* More Spirits; Mephiles, Tikal, the Babylon Rogues, Marine, and maybe even a few Badniks.

* Tails could be worked into Sonic's moveset. 

[Detective Kaito]

7 hours ago, Wraith said:

Now and again the idea of another Sonic character in Smash gets floated around. I don't expect this to ever realistically happen but it's fun to think about. Knuckles and Shadow would be my go-tos as a fan even if they're a little basic. One of my biggest beefs when it comes to actually playing as Sonic is his lack of kill power and one of the "sonic but stronger" archetypes would help with that while retaining some of his fun movement. I'd prefer Shadow for personal reasons though. Eggman would offer a lot more variety than anyone else as he has shown he's basically capable of creating anything in the games. Deeper cuts like Amy or Blaze that I'd really like are basically guaranteed not to happen but it's fun to think about mechanics like Amy's hammer jump and Blaze being able to overload her boost meter in that context. 

Or how about a proper Sonic fighting game? After Shadow and Knuckles were shafted as Assist Trophies, it's clear that Sakurai and his team have no interest in making any other Sonic characters playable, and Sonic (while he is my main in Ultimate) has a moveset with a lot of missed opportunities.

Although a Sonic fighting game isn't a very realistic dream since Sega only seem to be interested in creating platforming and racing spin-offs of Sonic for the past 12 years. I guess we just have to wait for the next Smash game and hope the Sonic series gets better representation.

[DryLagoon]

1 hour ago, Detective Kaito said:

Although a Sonic fighting game isn't a very realistic dream since Sega only seem to be interested in creating platforming and racing spin-offs of Sonic for the past 12 years.

I mean if Sonic Drift's concept came back, I don't see why they couldn't with Sonic the Fighters or Sonic Battle. Not that I think they will, just that it'd be nice.

[Detective Kaito]

58 minutes ago, DryLagoon said:

I mean if Sonic Drift's concept came back, I don't see why they couldn't with Sonic the Fighters or Sonic Battle. Not that I think they will, just that it'd be nice.

I think Sega believes that a Sonic fighting game isn't necessary because Sonic is in Smash. I don't have proof for this, but that's just what I think. lol

Also since they've been playing it safe when it comes to spin-off genres these past 12 years, they have no reason to branch out. Platformers and racing games make the most sense for Sonic, and a Sonic fighting game will most likely not be good unless you put ArcSys on it.

[King Scoopa Koopa]

I'd be all over a Sonic & SEGA All-Stars Smash-alike.