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Sonic 30th predictions


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At least one rumor is abound about how Forces as a game was supposedly far more centered on the Custom Hero/Avatar portion than the existing Sonic characters, up until they showcased their game to SoA and SoE and scaled the game back as a result after their response. Forces was also the game where the designers emphasized greatly simplifying the level design and controls to appeal to a new audience. And previous game, Lost World, also made a point of completely throwing out several design conventions and mechanics of Sonic gameplay in favor for new ones. So with all of that in mind, I'd imagine there's a pretty good chance Sonic Team (assuming they're responsible for the next major game) is more focused on making a game built around contemporary gaming trends than making a game built around one essential Sonic gameplay experience.

3 hours ago, Johnster4 said:

Here's my take of Nagoshi's comments on sonic in regards to the online play portion, if this is the case and go through with making another multiplayer game, I hope they don't release it and then treat it like abandonware day one just like they did with Team Sonic Racing, and give the game post-launch support for a a year or two at least.

A non-mobile Sonic game that did get substantial post-release support would be interesting to see. But this touches on a big point that ever since DLC / post-launch support has become the norm, mainline Sonic games have been very much been "one-and-done" in this regard. The majority of post-release material hasn't ventured past some bugfixes/patches and using existing/dummied out assets for re-arranged level design of existing stages. I'd say the best example of post-launch material to date for Sonic games is a toss-up between Lost World's Nintendo DLC Zones and Mania's Encore Pack.

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8 hours ago, Kuzu said:

Can they just...focus on what the rest of their fanbase actually wants for once? Please?

What? Who? You mean the extremely fractured fanbase? Split into at least 4 "mini-fandoms"? No wonder SEGA can't make fans happy, there are too many mini fandoms to cater to, besides the case of Forces being 100% shit.

Instead of trying to appeal to everyone by trying to cram everything, can't they focus on what THEY want? Who knows, maybe they will put better work and more passion into a project if they do what they like. Just saying.

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They can just make a 3D Sonic game with gameplay better than okay + a complimentary gimmick and that'd be alright with me. I'm not even picky at this point, just give me a 3D game that doesn't suck and I'll eat.

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We can complain all we want but I think at this point it's not worth since the game(s) is/(are) on the way to be released next year so big changes are unlikely to happen. We can only hope (again...) this time they show us something good. Also what @azoo said. 👌

 

 

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22 hours ago, Jack out of the comics! said:

No wonder SEGA can't make fans happy, there are too many mini fandoms to cater to

Well they have nobody else to blame for that than themselves, so I can't really feel sorry for them.

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On ‎9‎/‎29‎/‎2020 at 7:30 PM, Kuzu said:

Can they just...focus on what the rest of their fanbase actually wants for once? Please?

I mean...they gave people new gameplay in Lost World after people were saying they were sick of Boost gameplay and were met with cries for a return to Boost gameplay then that became Forces and also led to hate to say nothing of Forces attempts at trying to a darker storyline after so many demands for one.

I'm not going to say all those attempts worked perfectly. I never played Lost World so I have no idea what it's like and Forces story while not great doesn't feel all that more embarrassing than any other attempt to tell a "dark and serious" story in this franchise to me. In fact it felt pretty on par with the other attempts to me. 

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14 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

I mean...they gave people new gameplay in Lost World after people were saying they were sick of Boost gameplay and were met with cries for a return to Boost gameplay then that became Forces and also led to hate to say nothing of Forces attempts at trying to a darker storyline after so many demands for one.

I'm not going to say all those attempts worked perfectly. I never played Lost World so I have no idea what it's like and Forces story while not great doesn't feel all that more embarrassing than any other attempt to tell a "dark and serious" story in this franchise to me. In fact it felt pretty on par with the other attempts to me. 

 

I wasn't sick of Boost, they just didn't need to scrap literally EVERYTHING from it. 

And that's good for you; Forces is still a shit story and shouldn't get a pass just because "Its on par with other attempts" 

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lol I'm not expressing gratitude to Sega for doing the bare minimum and still fucking up as they do it.

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On 10/1/2020 at 9:04 AM, Tarnish said:

Well they have nobody else to blame for that than themselves, so I can't really feel sorry for them.

Okay, then let's hope... SEGA gives us fanservice and fucks up again somehow? Instead of leaving them alone trying to make a game.

I mean, if you all act detached and passive as you claim to be, why do you insist they "have to" listen to us? I know we are the consumers, we have the right. But why do you care about them "listening to us"? If you are detached...

At this point, I hope SEGA doesn't give 2 fucks about the divided fanbase, its their own mess, there is nothing they can do to make them happy, just... focus on making a good game. This is me being a realist (except for the "good game" segment?)

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To those who say "fuck your customer base, do whatever you want (and make it good)" with respect to practically any franchise....I really would like you guys to try and answer the following questions. Where do you think the malicious, unhappy, cursed customer base comes from to begin with? Or in other words, how do you guys think the series got those fans that are now such a scourge to the developers. Do you guys honestly believe people become fans of the games or the series because they don't actually like them or don't actually consider it to be good?

And those handful of good games the original Sonic Team group developed, before they even had an "audience" to speak of....so those were just pure luck, I guess?

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After the "multiple Sonic games" news, I was wondering if collections like Crash Trilogy and now Mario 3D All star would motivate Sega to release a collection too (besides others major 3d/2d titles, of course)

If they do that, What kind of games and/or type of Approach would you like to see?

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Easy: get Adventure 1, Adventure 2, and Heroes in a bundle. call it the Dreamcast collection (yes I know Heroes isn't on Dreamcast shut up) and sell it for $40. if not that, get Unleashed, Colors and Generations, put it in a bundle and put on newer hardware, call it the boost collection and sell it for $40. not a hard task for Sega seeing as they made this:

5d4dd80b-ce5f-4e9c-89e8-4864837b8dfa_1.7

it's probably not gonna happen sadly. their working on the main game instead (which is a better thing to do)

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What I would like: a collection o for all the 3d Sonic games from 1998-2008 with some extras like concept art and a music player. I wouldn't mind splitting them into two halves like the MM or KH collections if they decide 40 bucks for like 8 games is too much of a steal. 

What I expect: The classic games bundled together again with even less bells and whistles than last time + Sonic 3 missing. No extra features from newer ports. This will get defended as a good move by people who own the games 10 times over already. 

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17 hours ago, Mil-O-Lantern said:

To those who say "fuck your customer base, do whatever you want (and make it good)" with respect to practically any franchise....I really would like you guys to try and answer the following questions. Where do you think the malicious, unhappy, cursed customer base comes from to begin with? Or in other words, how do you guys think the series got those fans that are now such a scourge to the developers. Do you guys honestly believe people become fans of the games or the series because they don't actually like them or don't actually consider it to be good?

And those handful of good games the original Sonic Team group developed, before they even had an "audience" to speak of....so those were just pure luck, I guess?

When you think about it, the "fuck the customer base, we'll do whatever we want" mentality is what actually leads to fragmented fanbases. You have to have a "screw whatever defined the franchise until this point, let's deviate big time" approach to get the games we got in the Sonic franchise.

- You liked momentum based physics and gameplay? Well screw that, BOOST TO WIN!
- You liked rolling and spindash? Well screw that, BOOST TO WIN!
- You liked multiple playable characters? Well screw that, it's SONIC ONLY!
- You liked strories that were somewhat serious and played straight? Well screw that, it's all jokes and cringe now!
- You liked actually controlling your character? Well screw that, it's all on rails now!

This tactic might expand the fanbase when you look at the overall big picture, but probably not the way you hoped for. Now you have new fans who like the new thing you introduced/the new vision for the franchise, but don't give a damn and never will give a damn about what came before. And you have fans who likes what came before but doesn't give a damn about the new thing you introduced/the new vision for the franchise. And of course you have a few who genuinely like both, and the fanboys who'll buy even a soaked piece of cardboard if you put a Sonic label on it.

So now that you fragmented your fanbase, you can attempt to do this juggling act of trying to please every section of your fanbase (which can't happen with a single product because to do so you'd constantly run into contradictions, like trying to have a Sonic only + multiple playable characters game), or try to cut the fat you tacked on and actually try to move forward with whatever you think works best.

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1 hour ago, Tarnish said:

 

So now that you fragmented your fanbase, you can attempt to do this juggling act of trying to please every section of your fanbase (which can't happen with a single product because to do so you'd constantly run into contradictions, like trying to have a Sonic only + multiple playable characters game), or try to cut the fat you tacked on and actually try to move forward with whatever you think works best.

I mean most franchises end up compromising because that's the most stable solution when dealing with large sums of money. Resident Evil returned to its horror roots without abandoning over the shoulder gameplay or action elements because that was the combination that would get the most people on board. There were more fringe enthusiasts that wanted the series to lean even harder on classic elements but that just wasn't realistic. 

The tough pill the loudest Sonic fans will have to swallow is that their perfect Sonic game that just focuses on one era in the series is probably never going to exist. It makes sense to adopt more classic elements to a degree but Shadow and Silver arent going anywhere as long as kids are still buying their merch. To that end, it does kind of make sense to try to include a little of everything. It might piss off the people that don't like their peas and their vegetables to mix, but it's fair to say most casual or new players won't care and that's the majority of cash flow right there. Otherwise these forums and communities would be a lot more crowded. 

I think the problem I have with the way Sonic Team handles it lately is that they try to bring these elements together while also trying to maintain their "purity" in a way that feels contradictory. Classic Sonic is it's own seperate character spearheading it's own seperate canon but he also gets to be a main character in Forces, a modern game. Modern Sonic is supposed to be the more action driven one, but the majority of releases are still lighthearted and comedy driven and take place in pastel green hills, making you winder what the tonal difference actually is in the first place. 

Compromise is clearly the path forward to me, but Sonic Team hasn't done it very well at all. 

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Sega still don't really have any kind of vision for this series I feel is the biggest problem; they're still just mostly reacting to whatever the public feels, and just throwing things at a wall in a misguided attempt at pleasing someone. In short, they're not interesting in actually making good games, but to get people to actually LIKE their games and so they just throw together the things that they see people on the Internet talk about how much they like, but never make the attempt at actually understanding why those things were liked or fleshing them out and making sure they're competent. 

This is why they keep throwing classic into modern, because they know Generations was popular but literally have no understanding on WHY it was popular, so they just did Generations again but with nothing that made Generations great. It quite honestly feels like a fluke that this series is even still around with a company like Sega running them. 

I can see what Sega is TRYING to do...they're just not very good at it, but rather than just leaving well enough alone, they just seem insistent on doubling down on their worst traits and constrain the series into something that none of the fanbase are really interested in seeing. 

 

 

Even if by some miracle that the next game actually is good or a return to form, there's no guarantee that Sega will learn the right lessons from it and properly follow it up. That's pretty much the caveat for this series, there's never really a guarantee that things are going to work out in the long run, so we're essentially coin-flipping every time there's a new game; that it has the things that you like and want out of the series and that the game is actually good. 

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Hey there, how's it been? Wut y'all talking about lately?

On 9/28/2020 at 3:10 AM, Tarnish said:

What if they wanted to release the other half using LOCK-ON technology but dropped the idea due to the lukewarm reception? *Conspiracy intensifies*

So like 06?

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8 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Hey there, how's it been? Wut y'all talking about lately?

So like 06?

I don't think a patch big enough to fix all the issues with that game was possible back then.

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Dare I say the next Sonic game will only be great if SEGA handle the brand to another studio and just oversee the production every 2 months or more. I know they did that with Sonic Boom and hell it had a chance of being great, ex-Naughty Dog? The guys who worked on Crash and Jak? It could've actually been great, but it just wasn't BRB's year, and it's incredible that if it wasn't for Sonic Team and Iizuka himself we would've got Sonic looking like a real hedgehog with pants lol

But then again, we also got Team Mania. So what we really need is this. People who really care and understand what makes a great Sonic game, how the characters should be portraited, how balanced the gameplay should be... Fuckeries aside, Activision actually picked studios that, while yes, had hands on Crash and Spyro in the past, actually get these IPs and aren't releasing games just to make a buck, they really love Crash and Spyro. And those new games have proved that being a fan helps more than we think. We need a studio like that for Sonic. I'm not saying that Sonic Team doesn't love Sonic, but after so many years, they ought leave it.

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12 hours ago, Tarnish said:

I don't think a patch big enough to fix all the issues with that game was possible back then.

I was referring to hints/rumors that there was supposed to be more added to the game that never was for obvious reasons.

33 minutes ago, Jango said:

Dare I say the next Sonic game will only be great if SEGA handle the brand to another studio and just oversee the production every 2 months or more. I know they did that with Sonic Boom and hell it had a chance of being great, ex-Naughty Dog? The guys who worked on Crash and Jak? It could've actually been great, but it just wasn't BRB's year, and it's incredible that if it wasn't for Sonic Team and Iizuka himself we would've got Sonic looking like a real hedgehog with pants lol

 

I mean Sega did make them switch gears from 360/PS3(was that it?) to be Wii U exclusive alongside altering the story to include characters in the style of the tv shows 

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10 hours ago, DabigRG said:

I was referring to hints/rumors that there was supposed to be more added to the game that never was for obvious reasons.

First I'm hearing about that.

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