Sonic 30th predictions

[Iko]

I would like a spiritual successor to the Advance trilogy but all new, developed with more effort, with better level design, more gimmicks, more variety, a lot more polished and balanced, etc.

The game should have 2D graphics with hand drawn sprites (but this time in HD) like the style that the original games were trying to achieve; backgrounds and levels should be 2D artworks as well, not prerender, nor pixel art.

Aside of that, the game should introduce some new gameplay concepts, like Adv1 introduced the melee attacks, Adv2 introduced the boost mode and Adv3 introduced the team mechanics; The levels should be designed with those new concepts in mind.

It should also have a decent range of playable characters, all with unique skills (the original Advance series cast should be in, plus maybe someone else, giving priority to gameplay potential over character popularity).

But sadly this is never going to happen.

My prediction is a new 3D Sonic game, probably modern or a mix of modern & classic (a sort of new design), unrelated to Forces, completely new; And Mania 2. We'll probably get a small trailer for Mania 2 but nothing aside of a CG teaser for the 3D game. Unless the Adventure 1 remake rumors are real and we're getting that.

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

On 3/6/2020 at 12:13 PM, The Man On The Inside said:

Edit: found this video which was probably one of the first showcases of Sonic Utopia when it first was released in 2016. It has 4.7m views!

Has anyone ever asked Aaaron Webber or Christian Whitehead directly if they have seen this video? On twitter or anywhere else? Because I think that is the greatest contribution the future of Sonic that the fandom can make right now. Following up on your points, that Utopia concept bottles so much of that into one common sense idea. 

 

Again, has anyone in the community done this? I feel like we should be making damn sure they've seen it and understanding why it is appealing. Between the Sonic twiitter and the livestreams... c'mon folks.

Also, they probably have seen it. But I want to KNOW theyve seen it. We all should.

[Plasme]

4 minutes ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

Has anyone ever asked Aaaron Webber or Christian Whitehead directly if they have seen this video? On twitter or anywhere else? Because I think that is the greatest contribution the future of Sonic that the fandom can make right now. Following up on your points, that Utopia concept bottles so much of that into one common sense idea. 

 

Again, has anyone in the community done this? I feel like we should be making damn sure they've seen it and understanding why it is appealing. Between the Sonic twiitter and the livestreams... c'mon folks.

Also, they probably have seen it. But I want to KNOW theyve seen it. We all should.

I don't see how it matters if Whitehead sees it. He's the 2D guy and we don't even know if SEGA will ever contract him again.

Webber probably knows about it, but he's not a developer.

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

5 minutes ago, Plasme said:

I don't see how it matters if Whitehead sees it. He's the 2D guy and we don't even know if SEGA will ever contract him again.

Webber probably knows about it, but he's not a developer.

I'm not implying that Whitehead has any power. I'm just asking if the message has moved through the proper channels. Webber is probably the best bet, he relays many of the complaints coming from the fanbase. Whitehead talks to them too and would likely understand why the utopia idea hits so many notes for fans.

 

Again, I think it is important that we know they have seen it. The man on the inside made a great point about how so much of us know what we have wanted, but were unable to explain adequately in the year 2000 or 2005, is covered in that concept. And I mean from the perspective of many in the total fanbase, not just classic fans or 3D fans. A game like that would be a huge hit, a giant step in the right direction for the franchise.

[McGroose]

On 3/7/2020 at 12:51 PM, Jango said:

IMO, the 30th anniversary title should be a FULL collection with every-fucking-game in the franchise for the PC, PS5 and Xbox Series X. From the Genesis games, to the handheld ones, the Dreamcast games, everything, even 06 and Shadow. 

I'm not going to beat around the bush here, why in the world would I want that? 

Most of the really good games are already quite easy to get your hands on, whether it be via consoles or especially via PC. Currently there are a few good games not easy to obtain, but why should that warrant a massive compilation instead a smaller means of re-releasing the games?  As for as the crappy games like shadow and 06 are concerned, is that supposed to be one of the selling points, that now I have access to all the garbage I never wanted to play in the first place? What about the storybook games and their reliance on motion controls, how will that translate over? What about sonic free riders or those weird little spin off sonic arcade games from the early 90s, how are those getting in? Even if copyright magically wasnt an issue, there'd be plenty of games not getting the cut. So yay, not getting the sonic content which would've been somewhat interesting to play for all but 5 to 10 minutes a piece before I get bored or annoyed. 

Now, it would be nice to see the advanced and rush games (and maybe the 3ds games I guess) in a single compilation, but that would be a much smaller project. Putting absolutely everything sonic into one "new" game would almost certainly take a hell of a lot of time for it not to be an absolute mess, and would honestly be the most disappointing thing they could have revealed. It would be nice to get unleashed and colors I guess, but that doesnt need to be part of something like a massive 200gb+ sonic compilation, just individual seperate releases. 

I want a new game, not something barely worth my interest and absolutely not worth the effort it would take to make it. Having to wait all this long just to get the same stuff I already have access to, or never even wanted access to, is an absolute slap to the face from Sega. Now I've got to wait probably another 2 years just for sega to actually try and make a new game. 

I think I speak for most people when I say that what Sonic needs is not just good 2D games, but also a really good 3D sonic game. Beyond that is where the disagreements start, and of course that Is ok and to be expected, but that one core principle for the next Sonic game seems pretty essential to me. The last thing we need is something immensely impractical to attempt to distract us for the next 2 years, even with more Mania content. 

I apologize if the way I came across in this post came off as sort of snarky or obnoxious, but I'm really struggling to find reasons why this would be a smart choice for Sega. The best thing I can see coming out of this is a slightly easier means for the PC modding community to access these old games, and it's not like they havent already been at it already. We've already got fans that are practically remaking 06 at this point and with quite a bit of success doing it. 

 

[Iko]

Honestly I don't understand the appeal of Sonic Utopia...

It's a good nostalgia trip, ok, but I don't see it much different than most other Sonic fan engines, aside from it having a huge level and some additional effort in the art style.

Level design is not even that good either, there's a lot of empty space and all those slim curved roads... there are some nice ideas here and there, but overall you just run on those roads and if you fall from them, the walls are almost always too high and you have no choice but to run back on a flat terrain until you find another of those roads; I played it a lot of time ago, but I remember the homing attack being even more broken than usual, rolling not feeling natural enough, and it not having any sense of direction.

IMO Sonic GT's Hill Top Zone is a much better example of Sonic level design, and even gameplay-wise, despite being more like modern games, it's more fun.

Sonic GT gameplay

Or even the more exploration-based Sonic Islands, that feels a lot like Mario 64 but Sonic

Sonic Islands gameplay

It would be nice to have both types of levels in the same game honestly, for the sake of variety.

All of those fangames are missing a lot of core elements of Sonic anyway, such as level gimmicks and some actually dangerous obstacles.

[KHCast]

4 hours ago, McGroose said:

Most of the really good games are already quite easy to get your hands on, whether it be via consoles or especially via PC.

I mean games like Gens and Unleashed are available only through streaming on current systems , and on PlayStation that’s a fucking nightmare, since PSNow sucks, and not everyone can afford a decent PC to run those games. So a small collection for the boost games would at least be something nice to see.

[McGroose]

23 minutes ago, KHCast said:

I mean games like Gens and Unleashed are available only through streaming on current systems , and on PlayStation that’s a fucking nightmare, since PSNow sucks, and not everyone can afford a decent PC to run those games. So a small collection for the boost games would at least be something nice to see.

PS users get buttfucked in terms of backwards compatibility, that's true, but it's still possible to play those games on PS4. Xbox One and PC users have it pretty good, minus how we don't have Unleashed yet. The lack of Sonic Colors re-releases has honestly been questionable on Sega's part given how it was so successful and it already supports GC and Wii gamepad controls, which can easily be translated to modern controllers or keyboard.

And like I said in my original post, a SMALL collection, or individual releases, of these games is most definitely a welcome thing. I think a compilation that includes Unleashed, Gens, Colors and Maybe Lost World would actually be smart on Sega's half, but that's really all that's needed. A massive compilation of literally everything is taking it way too far, would be an absolute waste of a 30th anniversary and is completely unrealistic. 

2 hours ago, Iko said:

Honestly I don't understand the appeal of Sonic Utopia...

It's a good nostalgia trip, ok, but I don't see it much different than most other Sonic fan engines, aside from it having a huge level and some additional effort in the art style.

Level design is not even that good either, there's a lot of empty space and all those slim curved roads... there are some nice ideas here and there, but overall you just run on those roads and if you fall from them, the walls are almost always too high and you have no choice but to run back on a flat terrain until you find another of those roads; I played it a lot of time ago, but I remember the homing attack being even more broken than usual, rolling not feeling natural enough, and it not having any sense of direction.

IMO Sonic GT's Hill Top Zone is a much better example of Sonic level design, and even gameplay-wise, despite being more like modern games, it's more fun.

Sonic GT gameplay

Or even the more exploration-based Sonic Islands, that feels a lot like Mario 64 but Sonic

Sonic Islands gameplay

It would be nice to have both types of levels in the same game honestly, for the sake of variety.

All of those fangames are missing a lot of core elements of Sonic anyway, such as level gimmicks and some actually dangerous obstacles.

I agree that Sonic Utopia isn't the paragon of level design, but I think it serves as an excellent proof of concept for how to translate the 2D physics into a 3D environment, which is something I'm almost positive Sega would be terrible at doing themselves without a reference. They can't even get that crap in 2D right, they need fans to do it for them.  

I believe the maker of Sonic Utopia also said that this level served more as a proof of concept than anything else and is currently working on additional levels for the game that have much better level design. I think fan games like Project Heros and Sonic GT are what Sega should design 3D Sonic as, fast paced with accurate physics and plenty of platforming. The fans are showing it's possible, Sega has no excuse to not be able to do that. If they can't do it, then they need to hire fans to do it. 

[DryLagoon]

6 hours ago, Iko said:

All of those fangames are missing a lot of core elements of Sonic anyway, such as level gimmicks and some actually dangerous obstacles.

My personal favorite is Sonic Project Hero applied to Windmill Isle. When Project Hero first came out I really liked it, but it was mostly another demo without the level to go with it. So to see it still look fun in a boost based level was surprising to me. A change in level design would be nice too, but it was interesting that even if they didn't change a lot it could still work.
(Video link of Sonic)
(Video link of Tails and Knuckles)

[expansivelovestories]

I am reading the Sonic April 2020 conference thread and am starting to consider, if they were to recreate Sonic Adventure 1 somehow, it could be a new beyond-Adventure-style game based around the same hub worlds, with a few additional ones that would be crucial to the new story taking place.  The adventure stage hub worlds could perhaps be made into larger open world realms or otherwise expanded a bit.  The action stage zones could include many new versions of areas from SA without having to tell the same story to reach them.  Time travel would be a very welcome surprise!!  Perhaps we would have to visit Little Planet as a hub world and would go back or forwards in time from there, then leave to access the other main locations and zones in different times (rather than time travel being within the zones?)

 

7 hours ago, McGroose said:

I agree that Sonic Utopia isn't the paragon of level design, but I think it serves as an excellent proof of concept for how to translate the 2D physics into a 3D environment, which is something I'm almost positive Sega would be terrible at doing themselves without a reference. They can't even get that crap in 2D right, they need fans to do it for them.  

I believe the maker of Sonic Utopia also said that this level served more as a proof of concept than anything else and is currently working on additional levels for the game that have much better level design. I think fan games like Project Heros and Sonic GT are what Sega should design 3D Sonic as, fast paced with accurate physics and plenty of platforming. The fans are showing it's possible, Sega has no excuse to not be able to do that. If they can't do it, then they need to hire fans to do it. 

 

Yes Somewhere i remember reading that it was intended to give Sonic fans, including themselves, a chance to experience something akin to the castle grounds of Super Mario 64.

 

[Multikaris]

On 3/4/2020 at 12:57 PM, Jango said:

MAYBE?!? The worst part is: we never know for sure when it comes to good old SEGA.

They certainly have a reputation for screwing up good chances.

See also: Puyo Chronicles never leaving the Japanese 3DS. Several IP completely disappearing after ASRT. 
 

Not sure if they’re using Boost, Parkour, or something new. I assume they’d give the inevitable Adventure throwback to another team.

[Jango]

On 3/8/2020 at 9:45 PM, McGroose said:

I'm not going to beat around the bush here, why in the world would I want that? 

Most of the really good games are already quite easy to get your hands on, whether it be via consoles or especially via PC. Currently there are a few good games not easy to obtain, but why should that warrant a massive compilation instead a smaller means of re-releasing the games?  As for as the crappy games like shadow and 06 are concerned, is that supposed to be one of the selling points, that now I have access to all the garbage I never wanted to play in the first place? What about the storybook games and their reliance on motion controls, how will that translate over? What about sonic free riders or those weird little spin off sonic arcade games from the early 90s, how are those getting in? Even if copyright magically wasnt an issue, there'd be plenty of games not getting the cut. So yay, not getting the sonic content which would've been somewhat interesting to play for all but 5 to 10 minutes a piece before I get bored or annoyed. 

Now, it would be nice to see the advanced and rush games (and maybe the 3ds games I guess) in a single compilation, but that would be a much smaller project. Putting absolutely everything sonic into one "new" game would almost certainly take a hell of a lot of time for it not to be an absolute mess, and would honestly be the most disappointing thing they could have revealed. It would be nice to get unleashed and colors I guess, but that doesnt need to be part of something like a massive 200gb+ sonic compilation, just individual seperate releases. 

I want a new game, not something barely worth my interest and absolutely not worth the effort it would take to make it. Having to wait all this long just to get the same stuff I already have access to, or never even wanted access to, is an absolute slap to the face from Sega. Now I've got to wait probably another 2 years just for sega to actually try and make a new game. 

I think I speak for most people when I say that what Sonic needs is not just good 2D games, but also a really good 3D sonic game. Beyond that is where the disagreements start, and of course that Is ok and to be expected, but that one core principle for the next Sonic game seems pretty essential to me. The last thing we need is something immensely impractical to attempt to distract us for the next 2 years, even with more Mania content. 

I apologize if the way I came across in this post came off as sort of snarky or obnoxious, but I'm really struggling to find reasons why this would be a smart choice for Sega. The best thing I can see coming out of this is a slightly easier means for the PC modding community to access these old games, and it's not like they havent already been at it already. We've already got fans that are practically remaking 06 at this point and with quite a bit of success doing it. 

 

I completely agree actually. A collection with every game in the franchise would be 100% impossible to have, be it disc space, be it legal issues, control gimmicks, resolution, but especially, quality wise. It would be nice to have access to these games you named, but yeah, just by adding glitchy messes like Sonic 06 and Sonic Boom, or garbage like Sonic Labyrinth, would drastically drop this hypothetical collection quality down and works against it. Sure they're part of the franchise's history, but I agree that that's no reason to revisit these games, let alone invest money and effort to emulate them.

I still think a more focused collection could work tho'. We could have Sonic 1, 2, 3&K and Sonic CD, both Adventure games, Heroes... 06 (?!), Unleashed and Colors in a single package, following Sonic Generations' pattern. Okay, maybe skip 06 and replace it with Lost World, add some spin-offs like Knuckles Chaotix, Shadow the Hedgehog... 3D Blast? The Rush or Advance games?

Oh, and yeah, a brand new game too

[DabigRG]

On 3/9/2020 at 1:31 AM, McGroose said:

The lack of Sonic Colors re-releases has honestly been questionable on Sega's part given how it was so successful and it already supports GC and Wii gamepad controls, which can easily be translated to modern controllers or keyboard.

You know what, yeah, that is odd.

[Natie]

I also don't think Sega would release every game together in one from a business standpoint, instead of making individual re-releases for more profit. Even if it were possible. Games collections are usually reserved for retro titles which are smaller in size and old and short enough to be considered less worthy of full price individually.

[Roger_van_der_weide]

Problem with "retro" is that statement depends on perspective. Sonic Colors is a decade old now. The classic games had their first Retro rerelease in 2002 with Sonic Mega collection, when Sonic 1 was barely 11 years old and Sonic and Knuckles only 8.
And that's me ignoring the Sonic Jam collection, if that counts they got their first re-release in 1997.

I know us 80/ 90's kids like to think of games in our youth to be retro and anything from 2000 on to be in an eternal state of  "modern", but time moves on.
Sonic 06 is half of Sonic's lifespan ago and almost 2 console generations passed since. If Sonic and Knuckles was a retro classic in 2002, then 06 is a retro classic in 2020.
Y'know, in a Plan 9 from outer space kinda way.

But I suppose modern games do have more clockwork parts and thuss take more money and effort to port over.
Oh well, I'm sure another Sega Genesis collection is right around the corner for those who want to own their 39576th copy of Sonic 1.
I'll wait for Chinese pirates to figure out a Saturn/ Dreamcast mini instead.
I own the originals, no worries. I paid Sega their money when they were willing to sell them.

[McGroose]

8 hours ago, Roger_van_der_weide said:

Problem with "retro" is that statement depends on perspective. Sonic Colors is a decade old now. The classic games had their first Retro rerelease in 2002 with Sonic Mega collection, when Sonic 1 was barely 11 years old and Sonic and Knuckles only 8.
And that's me ignoring the Sonic Jam collection, if that counts they got their first re-release in 1997.

I know us 80/ 90's kids like to think of games in our youth to be retro and anything from 2000 on to be in an eternal state of  "modern", but time moves on.
Sonic 06 is half of Sonic's lifespan ago and almost 2 console generations passed since. If Sonic and Knuckles was a retro classic in 2002, then 06 is a retro classic in 2020.
Y'know, in a Plan 9 from outer space kinda way.

But I suppose modern games do have more clockwork parts and thuss take more money and effort to port over.
Oh well, I'm sure another Sega Genesis collection is right around the corner for those who want to own their 39576th copy of Sonic 1.
I'll wait for Chinese pirates to figure out a Saturn/ Dreamcast mini instead.
I own the originals, no worries. I paid Sega their money when they were willing to sell them.

Ya, and their 19,788th copy of Sonic 2 lol. 

If Sega released a Saturn mini or a Dreamcast mini I would eat that shit up, I'm not sure what the demand for that would be though.

Also in regards to what is considered "retro", I think Sega has made it pretty clear that their retro is basically Classic Sonic and will never evolve beyond that.

That and the day I see Sega consider anything from SA2 onward as Retro is the day I acknowledge that I'm both a young adult and an old fart simultaneously.  

[Red Hot Jack]

About the possible SA1 remake... I'm not against it at this point, you guys warmed me up to it, the game definitely aged horribly, so I wouldn't mind that but it does need new content too, if it has to be the next main Sonic project. These aren't just my ideas, I discussed it with other fans, and this is a wish-list of course, so let's go:

What to keep:

Sonic's story and gameplay: 3D high speed and exploration, platforming in wider areas possibly.

Knuckles's story: with the same gameplay and emerald radar as SA1, it was perfect, absolutely do not use the SA2 one.

Playable Tails: his story and gameplay with races, but it does need major rework, we'll get to it later.

Gamma's story: I mean, as much as it has been forgotten in the franchise, it remains one of the most glorious parts of SA1, so keep it.

Boss fights: Mostly Chaos fights, I would do rework especially in Eggman's bosses.

Upgrades and power-ups: some of the best parts of the game, they add proression, and you would still find them while adventuring.

What to improve:

Minigames: Sand Hill, the Tornado shooting game, and more would be back, I wouldn't mind if the Tornado levels took some inspiration from Unleashed, at least that knew what it wanted to be.

Amy and Big: IMO they should be reduced to minigames, that's how Big's fishing would work honestly, as a minigame, those episodes were already short and didn't add much besides being filler, and worst of all they were mandatory for the last story. Amy's gameplay wasn't fun either.

Tails' gameplay: Keep the races, I guess they tied into his plot of becoming a better hero? Still, I would give Tails a proper flight system, more flying obstacles and not just "flying around the stage with easy shortcuts to beat Sonic". Eggman is still the final adversary but... twist, you can unlock challenges so you can replay the stages with him as rival, to make it harder and more interesting.

Power-ups: Obviously you still find them in stages and hubworlds, but why not add more abilities? Like an unlockable modern Boost for Sonic, extended flight time for Tails, Drill (a la Yellow Wisp) skill for Knuckles, more weapons for Gamma. And more.

Updated designs: Keep Generations' Perfect Chaos design, updated even more, as well as new forms for Chaos, or tweaked forms for 2, 4 and 6.

E-100 series bots: Make them unique, instead of recolors of each other, a bit like Zeta maybe, give each of Gamma's boss brothers new weapons.

What to add:

More life to Hubworlds: maybe a connected hubworld instead of 3 separate ones? A la BotW, one huge hub, with more life though, more characters to interact with, humans and more, small puzzles, extra goodies to collect, secret locations for Chao Gardens.

Customizable characters: Not the Avatar, but perhaps the ability to customize Sonic and friends, with gadgets, comestic and ones that change your stats, grant you skills like the upgrades. Would be really cool.

Tails' workshop: a la museum to see the extra stuff you collected, replay cutscenes, listen to music, see concept art, emblems you earned and maybe trophies?

Metal Sonic unlockable story: A brand new story, with Eggman's perspective, and playable Metal as a Sonic skin with maybe more skills, and of course Hard Mode stages from Sonic's story. I was gonna add Shadow, but it wouldn't make sense to have him in SA1. Metal was already in SADX, I'm aware.

New locations for emerald shards: For Knuckles, obviously, tougher locations as Hard Mode, with creative ways to hide them, as well as maybe more treasures to find instead of Master Emerald shards, as side missions.

VS Eggman races: For Tails, as I already said.

1 Brand new zone: for each of the 4 characters, with all-new level design; could be either incorporated into the story or as a bonus stage.

Last story: I would say add a proper final stage where the main characters find the emeralds scattered by Perfect Chaos, then Sonic restores their power and turns Super Sonic for the final boss.

Time attack missions: a la SADX.

Super Sonic in every stage: This is now a traditional feature in Sonic games, again, and it was scrapped for SA1, so why not?

Most of all, Revamped Chao Garden: Add Hero/Dark evolutions, more species and variants of Chao, minigames, including one with Cream (a la Sonic Pinball Party), more fruits and drives to boost the stats, Chao races, more stuff to customize the Garden to make it comfortable for the Chao to live in, and a shop to spend rings with.

 

[DryLagoon]

3 hours ago, Jack at the Cinema said:

more fruits and drives to boost the stats

I liked most of your post but as a SA2&Chao fan Chaos drives are SA2 lore like Shadow. But it'd be an easy fix by making a different item with similar effects.

Quote

Chaos Drives are small capsule-like objects with a coloured shard inside found in Sonic Adventure 2. They act as a power source to G.U.N. robots and are dropped when they're destroyed. Once collected, they can be used for raising Chao, adding to one of their stats.

The Chaos Drives were initially designed by Professor Gerald as a means of transferring energy to living tissue, part of his work on Project Shadow.

 

[Roger_van_der_weide]

It's kinda funny, usually when old games get remade, they get a whole bunch of bonus features on top of it to make it more worthwhile, either the sequels included (Spyro/ Crash) or a Dungeon Creator (Link's awakening) or something.
That's because these 90's games are much smaller in terms of content then what we expect a full fletched game to have in 2010/ 2020.
Sonic Adventure on the other hand, has easily twice, perhaps thrice the amount of content that most modern Sonic games contain, so it'll probably be the reverse situation.
I expect it to be half the game with all extra's eliminated.
But hey, it'd be sold for half the price. So just like Sonic Forces and Team Sonic racing, half a game for half a price.  Granted, a lot of folk in this discussion seem to like that, altough I'd still be irritated out of principle. And besides....



I hate it that Amy and E-102 and such are dismissed as filler. It's them that make Sonic adventure feel so rich, you get to live out a life as an Eggman robot, the ignored sidekick gets her day in the limelight and gets to investigate a mystery while in over her head. Etc.
It's what puts the "Adventure" in Sonic Adventure. If you hate all the Hub stuff and playing as minor characters in side stories, are you sure you want a Sonic Adventure remake and not a Sonic Heroes remake?

And unlike puzzles and gimmicks in Sonic Colors where it all feels abstract and puzzles for the sake of puzzles, I felt Amy's gimmicks and puzzles helped with the context, the whole "Innocent civilian heroicly trying to infiltrate/ escape Eggman's base". Sometimes figuring out Eggman's weird security systems, sometimes running for your life when scary overpowered robots chase after you.
Character building for Amy and for Eggman. How often do we get a chance to really get a close feel of how Eggman's bases work, filled with his petty humor, wacky security systems and mundane facilities right inbetween all the deathtraps.
We're truly navigating Eggman's base for real, rather then it just being a random aesthetic to Level #23.
Again, putting the Adventure in Sonic Adventure.



It's exactly the parts of Adventure I want to see sharpened, cleaned up and improved for a remade instead of dismissed as trash. Because yes, Amy's parts are clunky and glitchy as heck. But I love the idea behind it.
In fact, that sums up the entirety of Sonic adventure up for me, awesome ideas, ambitions and gameworld as made by a team still figuring out how all this 3d stuff works. And why the idea of this game getting a remake with a team with a better mastery of 3d gameplay is so appealing.
If they're going to strip out all the Adventure elements for being "not like Sonic" or "filler", then we'll just get Sonic Forces with Sonic Adventure wallpaper, exactly what I don't want. This is Sonic Adventure, not Sonic 4 in 3d.
I want them to fix Sonic adventure, not dismiss it.

..........
But that's all wishfull thinking. As much as I love dreaming about a solid tight version of Sonic adventure, I still have to remind myself this will be made by Modern Sonic Team. Seeing their attempts to recreate Classic Sonic, something they should be able to do in their sleep at this point, sucks away any optimism I may have. (I don't consider Mania to be made by Sonic Team proper. I hope assisting with that game did slap them awake, tough.)
And with Sega's track record of "Fix the problem by burning everything to the ground", I have little hope.
Fortunatly it's proably not THE Sonic team making this hypothetical remake, but a hired third party developer, so there's a chance to have a better shot at getting it right. Let's roll the dice and see if we'll get a Whitehead or a Big Red Button esque developer.



As for fangames mastering 3d gameplay, my money's on Sonic Robo blast 2.2.
Unlike most 3d fangames, that one is (Nearly) complete with a full compaign, several zones and bosses, not just a tech demo opening stage.
Intense platforming, level gimmicks, bosses, story transitions, multiple playable characters with their own abilities, the whole shebang.
And entirely focused on being a 3d version of the classic games, so huge levels with multiple pathways, exploration, speed, hidden levels, everything. Another thing I prefer over most other 3d remakes is that while Sonic still feels free and can make a lot of air, it never feels like he's almost disconnected from the level and constantly flying over huge chunks of the level. You have freeedom, but controlled freedom within a legit level design, rather then just randomly flying over random chunks of level that can't contain you.
Only thing missing are loops.
 

[Red Hot Jack]

The thing is, I highly doubt we are getting a SA1 remake AND a brand new game like people think, it's literally impossible. So if I have to sacrifice a new game, with all-new stages, story, features, etc. for a remake, honestly it's not worth it, as cool as it'd be to revisit SA1. Give me something new.

[DryLagoon]

Everyone saying "If it's a new game or a remake I'll pick new game every time!", and I'm just thinking do you really want them to go straight from Forces to a new title? They had to practically start over after going back to Boost from Lost World's game play. As others have said, this is Modern Sonic Team. All those guys from Adventure and Generations are gone. The new level creators only have experience with Lost World (now moot) and Forces (hated by fans). Rather than frame it as "new or old", it's better to think of it as "Do I want them to continue what they were doing from Forces, or do I want them to get inspiration from a remake, and then use that on a new title after?". Of course I can't say for certain what they are doing behind the scenes, but having a passion project really would help bring back some life I think.

[Wraith]

I would take a new title over them screwing over a game I already like. Preserve the Adventure games with a remaster and make a new game in that vein. 

[Tracker_TD]

3 hours ago, DryLagoon said:

I'm just thinking do you really want them to go straight from Forces to a new title?

Yes? They went from Sonic 06 straight to a new title, and while I hate Sonic Unleashed it was still clear that a lot more love for the series went into that game than 06; and here we're dealing with Forces, which is more aggressively mediocre than it is an absolute Sonic doomsday event. If we required Sonic Team to make a remake after every bad or even just 'painfully mediocre' game, this series would be about 75% comprised of remakes by now.

 

I'd rather they just analyse what was good about Adventure, and then apply that to something new and skip the remake stage. 

[Red Hot Jack]

3 hours ago, DryLagoon said:

Everyone saying "If it's a new game or a remake I'll pick new game every time!", and I'm just thinking do you really want them to go straight from Forces to a new title? They had to practically start over after going back to Boost from Lost World's game play. As others have said, this is Modern Sonic Team. All those guys from Adventure and Generations are gone. The new level creators only have experience with Lost World (now moot) and Forces (hated by fans). Rather than frame it as "new or old", it's better to think of it as "Do I want them to continue what they were doing from Forces, or do I want them to get inspiration from a remake, and then use that on a new title after?". Of course I can't say for certain what they are doing behind the scenes, but having a passion project really would help bring back some life I think.

Isn't that quite obvious? Forces sucked, so of course I want a new game. Maybe I should be more specific, I want a decent title with all-new stages and features, and maybe take inspiration from what worked in the past, plus bring back some fan favorite features like Chao Garden. But all-new can also be a Classic game, it just needs to have... well, brand new stages and some new mechanic.

[Scar]

A proper Sonic Adventure remake would need to be rebuilt to an extent to which be almost unrecognisable from the original SA1. The only thing that would bare any resemblance to the original would be the basic structure of the game and the story. But even the plot would have to be heavily rewritten so that it isn't embarrassing.

I broadly agree with Roger, in that stuff like the different characters' gameplay and the hubworlds should remain.

Though I take an exception to Big. Don't think we need Sega Bass Fishing 2021. Also, his entire character should be rewritten to not be a retarded giant cat, to more of a big friendly giant type, with a rural/country air to him. A side character who gets caught up in a big mess, at most.

Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy and Gamma have to stay. They add a lot of colour to the game. But as I said, the actual gameplay would have to basically be completely re-engineered to meet modern standards. Simply tightening the controls, removing bugs and adding a fresh 4K coat of paint is quite frankly not good enough. Take the basic principles and give it some more mass, some more depth, some more polish. Modernise it, expand it. Sonic's levels should be bigger and wider (think the Windy Valley beta level) and larger. Part of the charm of the SA1 was that multiple characters go through the same levels -  it feels like the adventure is taking place in an actual place, which is fine, but I definitely feel that while there should be common areas between characters, each character should definitely their own unique section within each stage, that the other characters do not get to see. a) for a bit of variety, and b) so that their design can be a little more focused to each character's playstyle, rather than having to accommodate all styles and fail to excel in any individual one. Tails needs to ditch the race format and just have a different take on platforming. Knuckles can keep his emerald shard hunting, but with his own unique sections of level to explore. Amy should be a puzzle-platformer type gameplay style, with some slightly slicker movement options. Gamma....is an interesting one. Maybe a different type of puzzle platforming, with his own unique character gimmicks thrown in. Can keep the shooting, but it'd need to be developed into something more than it is. Big is a side character as mentioned above. You see him around, but he shouldn't be central to the plot and we don't need SEGA bass fishing. If you can think of a way to give him a unique and interesting gameplay style, then sure, but I can't. It seems his and froggy's inclusion was purely to promote the fishing game on Dreamcast, and that is not enough of a justification to include him in a remake. Nostalgia be damned.

Hubworlds need to be as good as Unleashed at a minimum. I would personally want them to be substantially better. I want station square to feel like a big city. I want each area of Station Square to feel vibrant and big and unique. I want the entrance to the beach to feel large and like....a beach. Ideally you should be able to see some landmarks from Emerald coast out in the distance, but not immediately accessible, unless you choose to access the stage. I want the downtown area where Speed Highway is to feel like its actually connected to the big city. Likewise with the Casino area. I want the mystic ruins to feel vast and...mystic. I want the fact that the Mystic Ruins and Angel Island were once the same place, but were separated when Angel Island was thrown into the sky to be visible. Perhaps not in-your-face obvious, but you should be able to tell, they're related but at the same time distinct locations - this wasn't clear in the original SA1 outside of exposition. I want Angel Island to feel as vast as it did during S3K - just with most of it inaccessible, rather than just seeming like the emerald alter. I want the Egg Carrier to actually look as big as its supposed to be. In SA1 the hubworld is tiny, but Sky Deck is fucking massive. You don't have to have the whole ship accessible as a hubworld, but the size of the hub and the size of Sky Deck should be reconcilable. It should feel big. If it isn't possible to have the levels organically integrate with the hubs, then having Unleashed-style access points is fine. But the hubworlds should definitely feel big, but they shouldn't be so big and empty and lifeless as they were in '06.

There is so much you'd need to do to remake SA1 (and indeed SA2 tbh) to make it fit for the modern gaming scene. And if I were to do it, I would not at all worry about nostalgia and people maybe getting upset at it not being a 1:1 4K remaster. I would want this remake to be the default. I would want it to be the definitive Sonic Adventure experience. One that takes the heart of the original and raises it to not just be fit for modern expectations of a 3D platformer, but to be up there with the very best 3D Mario as an experience. 

I would also include the original Sonic Adventure 1 as an unlockable, in the same way the game gear games were unlockable in SADX. Maybe make it widescreen (for all except cutscenes) and fix some of the glaring bugs, but otherwise untouched. Given how big modern games are and how much capacity modern Blu-Rays have, it shouldn't be too much of a big deal to throw it on there.