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Sonic 30th predictions


UpCDownCLeftCRightC

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7 minutes ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

There's a new economy around sonic rumors. 

It's nothing new, in the Smash Bros fandom this happens all the times.

If someone remembers the Grinch Leak, Rift and all those other rumors are probably a similar case.

I don't know about Zippo's rumor, but those leaked posters seem to give it some more credibility, even though they are so generic that they still prove nothing yet. Heck I don't even exclude the idea that the posters are not official and made by some dedicated person instead, as unlikely as it may look. Speculating on rumors can be fun and all but we should always keep in mind that anything unexpected can happen and until there's an undeniable proof, nothing is confirmed.

Also I always try to avoid supporting the people who make money (or even just popularity) out of leaks and rumors; for example, I don't watch the youtube videos about rumors no matter what. If everyone did the same, people won't be able to make money out of fake rumors and the trend would decrease a lot (there would still be some idiots who try to fool other people "for the lulz" but that would be a smaller thing).

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10 minutes ago, Iko said:

It's nothing new, in the Smash Bros fandom this happens all the times.

If someone remembers the Grinch Leak, Rift and all those other rumors are probably a similar case.

I don't know about Zippo's rumor, but those leaked posters seem to give it some more credibility, even though they are so generic that they still prove nothing yet. Heck I don't even exclude the idea that the posters are not official and made by some dedicated person instead, as unlikely as it may look. Speculating on rumors can be fun and all but we should always keep in mind that anything unexpected can happen and until there's an undeniable proof, nothing is confirmed.

Also I always try to avoid supporting the people who make money (or even just popularity) out of leaks and rumors; for example, I don't watch the youtube videos about rumors no matter what. If everyone did the same, people won't be able to make money out of fake rumors and the trend would decrease a lot (there would still be some idiots who try to fool other people "for the lulz" but that would be a smaller thing).

I actually don't really mind the youtubers who discuss the rumors. When a franchise goes several years without releasing any new titles and giving virtually no information, where are fans supposed to channel their passion? They'll become creative and do it in a number of ways but they'll also get anxious about the next product. It's definitely what the company wants as well, no doubt.

If someone wants to expose a tuber for creating a rumor and then discussing it as if it's something official, that's different. Speculation isn't illegal and imo shouldn't be frowned upon in the fan base. I've actually seen this be quite fun in other franchises....although those games tend to have higher quality titles on average, and thus are more fun to speculate (I actually remember what this feels like a sonic fan in the mid to late 90s, waiting for sonic adventure! We didn't always have the sonic cycle...😀)

Anyone who is a long time fan of the series by now should have learned to not believe anything by default. Rumors CAN BE real, as we saw with the sonic forces several rumors years ago. It's up to people if they want to wait around for stuff like that and deal with the hype.

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Hmm... The wait will be worth it...

That's reassuring in a sense, as I don't think Tails Channel would be one of those who needlessly hypes (or even wrongfully hypes) the community. However, there's still the feeling that there won't be anything grand. Nothing that goes beyond the quality of recent efforts (Mania aside). I'll reserve judgement until we see something, though.

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Does that banner from Tails' Channel imply that they actually know something? I feel it could also be taken just as positive encouragement, but unsure.

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1 hour ago, Gotta Go Rational said:

Does that banner from Tails' Channel imply that they actually know something? I feel it could also be taken just as positive encouragement, but unsure.

It does and it doesn't at the same time. Depend on who's asking. If they don't actually know anything and the next game turn out to be shitty, they'll come out as fools.

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I'd like to see another Sonic Riders game in the near future. I know a lot of people didn't really care for these games, but I think that with a little more effort put into the gameplay mechanics and missions, we could get a truly great riders game.

 

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6 hours ago, Jango said:

It does and it doesn't at the same time. Depend on who's asking. If they don't actually know anything and the next game turn out to be shitty, they'll come out as fools.

Yeah, I didn't even mean with regards to their thoughts on the quality of it, rather just whether that message meant if they knew any details about anything on the horizon that hasn't been announced publicly yet.

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Considering everything going on, and the more I think about it, yeah...

I don't think the 3D game is this year. Covid has impacted every game development studio in a big way, and SEGA wasn't spared in that, obviously.

My guess is that it'll release early next year. I'd bet that they want it out before the end of the next fiscal year (March).

This year, I see them focusing on the 2D game and the collection/ports/remasters. That should (hopefully) be enough for most people right now. This big 3D game has got to be good. Give it all the time it needs.

Regardless, they're still getting ready to make announcements soon, but I don't think you'll get more than a CG trailer from that 3D Sonic game, as is tradition at this point.

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Been thinking about what a Sonic collection would realistically entail. I think if they were making an effort to make as much of the series widely available again. I feel like they'd have to go the same route as Capcom did with Mega Man and have multiple releases. I just don't see a single collection game covering a huge amount of the series' backlog. I think 3 or so releases would make sense, with some omissions along the way. It'd be quite cool if we got these spread out over the anniversary year, maybe one in June, one later in the year, and the third one next year around April alongside the movie for some cross-promotion.

Classic Collection

  • Sonic 1 & 2 are easy, I'd personally be expecting the emulated versions from the Mega Drive mini. Would be happily surprised with the StealthTax versions but I'm expecting nah.
  • Sonic CD would be the remastered version simply because that's the easiest one for them to use. 
  • We obviously don't expect 3K here but if they made a Classic collection specifically, I could see them finally switching out music or just giving us Sonic & Knuckles standalone like a lot of those ATGames machines liked to do.
  • 3D Blast & MBM - standard emulation
  • Probably some game gear games to make up the numbers
  • Sonic the Fighters possibly as a wildcard? It already got a HD re-release so it's available
  • Knuckles Chaotix could be cool just for them to have a nifty marketing line about a "long lost classic" yaddy yadda.

2000s Collection

  • SADX - I absolutely expect them to just give us a re-release of the 2010 edition of the game. If we're lucky maybe they'd finally put it in proper widescreen. 
  • SA2 - Again, use the HD re-release we already have.
  • Sonic Heroes - a PC version already exists and is plenty presentable with a resolution increase and widescreen patch. All they'd really need to do is fix the menus to accommodate the widescreen display.
  • Sonic Advance Trilogy - I feel this is more wish-listy. They'd be great bonus games and would fit in here but I also expect them to be content with the Dreamcast Trilogy on their own.

I think a collection like this would hinge on SA 1&2 NOT getting remakes in the near future. Everything else around this time I don't expect to turn up at all. I think Shadow the Hedgehog and 2006 are off the cards for obvious reasons. The storybook games would need too much work to adapt to normal controls to be worth their time, The DS games likewise make use of touch screen controls and dual-screen displays. I would love Riders 1 and 2 to get a re-release but I expect they'd be their own thing if they did, and I don't think they will. The Rivals games I'm confident are forever abandoned on the PSP. 

Boost Trilogy

Simplest of the lot. Unleashed, Colours and Generations. No idea what improvements they would actually bother to make to these. I would expect Unleashed and Colours to come to PC individually around the same time which will probably be the best place to play them. On console I'd expect 1080P 30FPS across the board, sadly. Free Riders has no chance in hell, same with the Boom stuff and I somehow suspect Sonic Lost World will just get skipped. I think the boost trilogy alone is plenty for them to justify a £40-£50 release.

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On 2/14/2021 at 1:21 PM, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

It's definitely what the company wants as well, no doubt.

I'm not sure that's true.  I know SEGA doesn't get as overprotective of Sonic's image as Nintendo gets of Mario's--they wouldn't allow awful Sonic games to come out, if they did--but they still presumably have their limits in what they want making the rounds.  A rumor that people go overboard with has two primary risks; one, people hate the sound of it and it drives a lot of criticisms towards SEGA, two people love it and when it turns out it isn't true people are going to be annoyed at the company. 

I know the latter is a risk because I can note examples of similar things happening in the past.  Rareware had declared they were making another Banjo-Kazooie game for a long time, and even the first trailer for Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts gave no indications that it would be a radical departure from the series standards; in fact it had the duo doing a new move with Banjo using Kazooie as jackhammer.  Then when it was revealed that it was a vehicle-based game the duo got shoved into, in which Kazooie has all of her moves removed to force players to rely on vehicles, inevitably people hated it due to disappointment.  Few Rare fans hated on Diddy Kong Racing for not being a platformer, as it was never misportrayed as one, but when presented with something they really wanted and then denied it, the fans raged.  Much more recently, the character Princess Charm has completely overshadowed the Knockout City game whose trailer she (along with some other characters) was made for, and it's not hard to see why.  Today's gaming scene is saturated with gimmicky competitive multiplayer games, such as Splatoon, Fortnite and Ninjala.  It's not like gamers are utterly intolerant of any more such games existing, but when they saw a trailer that implied they'd be getting a more unique game in which characters from all sorts of different game genres would meet and interact, learning the game itself would be something quite different let them down.

You might call those extreme comparisons, but given the complaints and wishes of many Sonic fans, I don't think they are.  Fans who have been pleading for a return to the Adventure formula, or at least some of it, might be able to appreciate a Sonic game that isn't that, provided it's still good for what it is.  But if online Sonic discourse becomes overwhelmingly full of not only desire for more Adventure stuff, but more expectations thereof, at some point SEGA will perceive that this will make them look bad.

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@Scritch the Cat my comment was a simpler one, merely that SEGA would be obviously happy for fans to be anticipating their next game. Didn't mean anything more complicated by that statement, sorry if it seemed that way. You made good points though. I hope by the end of spring we do get some kind of hint or brief trailer because if what the next project is is NOT Sonic Adventure related in any substantial way, a lot of fans are going to be quite disappointed.

 

I should say though, like I did many months ago, many fans should calm down a bit with conflating their desires and expectations. If you keep asking for a particular thing when the company hasn't dabbled in that idea in a very long time, you're just setting yourself up for disappointment when they actually try to do it but can't because they don't know how....it was over 15 years ago, after all, and the same people are not around today. (scritch said some of this) Or, if the company just isn't thinking about it in the same way you are, and didn't actually have your ideas in their plans. The fact is, we really don't know. All we have is the twitter "hints", which in hindsight usually don't amount to much.

Edit: this is a speculation thread, so its totally okay to do all of the wish lists and rumor stuff here, didnt mean to put anyone off that. I just think people should keep these things under control, because im seeing a large number of fans actually, fully expecting a Sonic adventure deal and I don't think thats where we are right now as a franchise...It could be the next game! But we need more than the nature of what has been discussed in this thread before any hype train can get going.

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5 hours ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

I should say though, like I did many months ago, many fans should calm down a bit with conflating their desires and expectations. If you keep asking for a particular thing when the company hasn't dabbled in that idea in a very long time, you're just setting yourself up for disappointment when they actually try to do it but can't because they don't know how....it was over 15 years ago, after all, and the same people are not around today. (scritch said some of this) Or, if the company just isn't thinking about it in the same way you are, and didn't actually have your ideas in their plans. The fact is, we really don't know. All we have is the twitter "hints", which in hindsight usually don't amount to much.

I wouldn't have any expectations whatsoever of them making a new game in that style, if not for the increase in call-backs to the era.  A heavier presence of Jun Senoue, a lot of references to it in Tyson Hesse's last two shorts, quite a few allusions to chao; I'm not saying that proves they're doing it, let-alone that they're doing it well, but with so little else to extrapolate much of any direction for them it's not totally out of the question.  Besides, only some of the common rumors allege that's what's coming; others like the Sonic Rift rumor are far from confirmed but believable if only because they imply that they're mostly more of the same thing they've done for a while.

As to my expectations, they aren't high, but I vehemently disagree with you that fans should stop asking for something just because whomever SEGA has working on this series now isn't up to the task of making it.  None of us owe our support to SEGA if they decide to make this series something completely different from what we want, even if the result is competent, and we aren't to blame if they somehow can't accomplish what they used to accomplish.  Making sure you haven't lost the ability to make things you were somehow able to make decades ago with less technology should be a high priority for companies and if they can't do this then it's not on fans to cut them some slack.  Besides, I don't really see any time they really tried to make another Adventure game and failed because they didn't know how.  06 is absolutely not an example of that because its problems are down to it being released unfinished.  Not programmed by bad programmers; just rushed out without fixing numerous bugs.  Yes; Naka and some others left during that game's development, but that doesn't mean there are absolutely no serviceable programmers left in the company.  Most subsequent entries into the series weren't broken, technically.  Nothing released subsequently implies they can't still make an Adventure game if they try, because they haven't tried.  No; I absolutely don't agree with any who say Forces was such an attempt.  I really don't know where anyone is getting that notion and I haven't read any claims from SEGA as to this.  In fact, if Forces proves they're inept at making anything, it's Classic Sonic.

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8 hours ago, Scritch the Cat said:

I wouldn't have any expectations whatsoever of them making a new game in that style, if not for the increase in call-backs to the era.  A heavier presence of Jun Senoue, a lot of references to it in Tyson Hesse's last two shorts, quite a few allusions to chao; I'm not saying that proves they're doing it, let-alone that they're doing it well, but with so little else to extrapolate much of any direction for them it's not totally out of the question.  Besides, only some of the common rumors allege that's what's coming; others like the Sonic Rift rumor are far from confirmed but believable if only because they imply that they're mostly more of the same thing they've done for a while.

As to my expectations, they aren't high, but I vehemently disagree with you that fans should stop asking for something just because whomever SEGA has working on this series now isn't up to the task of making it.  None of us owe our support to SEGA if they decide to make this series something completely different from what we want, even if the result is competent, and we aren't to blame if they somehow can't accomplish what they used to accomplish.  Making sure you haven't lost the ability to make things you were somehow able to make decades ago with less technology should be a high priority for companies and if they can't do this then it's not on fans to cut them some slack.  Besides, I don't really see any time they really tried to make another Adventure game and failed because they didn't know how.  06 is absolutely not an example of that because its problems are down to it being released unfinished.  Not programmed by bad programmers; just rushed out without fixing numerous bugs.  Yes; Naka and some others left during that game's development, but that doesn't mean there are absolutely no serviceable programmers left in the company.  Most subsequent entries into the series weren't broken, technically.  Nothing released subsequently implies they can't still make an Adventure game if they try, because they haven't tried.  No; I absolutely don't agree with any who say Forces was such an attempt.  I really don't know where anyone is getting that notion and I haven't read any claims from SEGA as to this.  In fact, if Forces proves they're inept at making anything, it's Classic Sonic.

Let me rephrase so I'm more clear, I think I wasn't: Any fan of any era should continually and incessantly ask for what they want, no matter what anyone else says. I just think we have to be careful in how we describe those things to SEGA, that's all.

Like, Sonic Adventure 3 right? Comes with a lot of expectations for fans. But how well does SEGA or Sonic Team actually understand the key features that that game would need to have in order to really please it's hardcore fans? Might SEGA release a game titled Sonic Adventure 3 with many of the same features and characters, but instead with the boost engine for example because it's what they actually know how to do? Would that make fans happy (No it wouldn't).

I bring this specific example up because SEGA in the last decade hasn't up to this point even differentiated between how the sonic adventure games played (in the purely sonic sections) and how the latter modern games played. They've commonly referred to the games in the same way, just that the latter games perhaps fixing the issues of the former in their opinion (Iizuka has commented on this before iirc, as "the forward facing 3D games" in contrast to the "side scrolling pixel games"). Have to watch out for stuff like that, for some reason miscommunication has always happened very easily in this franchise compared to others I've seen over the years.

So If I'm saying anything at all, I'm saying, somehow there needs to be a more targeted vocal campaign for fans in order to get what they actually want, rather than just the packaging. Don't just scream 'SA3!!!' or 'SA remake yeah!!!' because it leaves ST in a position to interpret that however they see fit....that is NOT what you guys want....as a former victim of Sonic 4, trust me. You might believe they understand what that means...but you'd be surprised. This can very, very easily become a Sonic 4 situation.

 

So again, I think you guys should be screaming for what you want definitely, I'm in support. In fact, I would like a SA remake because I think it might be the only chance to get what I actually want to see after all these long years of suffering (haha). I think that's a better goal than SA3, which as of right now has too much potential to go horribly wrong. SA3 should not be the first game made in that style after 15+ years, much like Mania only came after Whitehead had remastered two classic titles first.

 

Also I do agree that there have been things one could interpret as 'hints' to a possible SA style game. It's why I had it on my list in the OP. I still see a brand new game as most likely, inspired by the recent successes of the franchises in some form, but SEGA isn't ignorant of SA fans and they've been the loudest group in the last 4 years or so.

 

 

 

.....(Inb4 next game is Forces 2 with chao garden stuffed with microtransactions)

 

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The nature of the Sonic fanbase means that no matter what Sega does, somebody isn't going to be happy with it. It's just a fact that we should probably expect regardless of the actual content of the next game. You can tell people to "have lower expectations", but that's not going to deter people at all who have made up their minds on the type of game that they want, nor is it going to change their reactions when they don't get what they want. So the only thing you can do is to just make your own judgement call and see what happens. 

I personally don't care what we get so as long as its well made, I'm not really asking for much here. I would PREFER a return to the older Adventure formula, and the things that were established there, but nine times out of ten, I know I'm not going to get that. So I can only hope that we do get is at least decent. 

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18 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

somebody isn't going to be happy with it.

As much as this is a reality for basically every franchise , it's something that happens even when a Sonic game is indisputably bad or indisputably great. There's not a way to fix this and it never will. Like you, I would take any kind of Sonic game if it's great, 2D, 3D, racing, party, what I'm really tired isn't the the genre of these games, but the low quality of them. It's not even a matter of polish anymore, the last games are pretty stable and glitch free, but they're just lackbuster and short in content...

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Gonna pray on Zippo’s behalf those leaks have weight. Mostly because I’m starting to feel like they don’t, and I feel bad for anyone with all eyes from a fan base on them. 

Would love to be wrong, though. 

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What I hope for Sonic's 30th -

1. Sonic Adventure Legacy Collection (Sonic adventure 1 & 2 remastered)

2. Sonic mania 2 (Mostly all new stages)

3. A new Modern Sonic game (with a few playable characters like Tails, Knuckles and Shadow) 

Thats it really.  

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6 hours ago, Kuzu said:

You can tell people to "have lower expectations", but that's not going to deter people at all who have made up their minds on the type of game that they want, nor is it going to change their reactions when they don't get what they want. So the only thing you can do is to just make your own judgement call and see what happens. 

I'm not expecting to deter a single soul, nor was that the jist of my post. It's like you're pointing to me and telling ME to let others be, for really no reason at all. 

 

I said people should want what they want (with no compromises) but keep in mind that communication between what fans want and we what the developers actually understand are not necessarily on the same wavelength and gave some historical context for it. Perhaps the most unobjectionable statement I could possibly make in a situation like this.

If anything fans should be louder and louder (but perhaps in a more targeted way imo) until they actually are more likely to get closer to the ideal. Even if the devs don't get it, if you keep asking eventually they will get you, if you're patient enough.

 

There's a gap between threads like this which are pure speculation, and then people actually creating rumors and running with the belief thereof that I think needs some caution, that is all. The latter is the part needing 'lowering' if there's any. Over the last year or so, some innocent beliefs and speculation based on desire have transformed into real expectation. It's like the boy who grew wings. 

 

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Which is even assuming the devs are particularly interested in creating what the fans want and aren't just off on their own personal little missions.
I get the impression Sega as a whole is more interesting in following trends and being profitable in general, and Sonic Team in particular are artists mostly occupied in following their own experiments.
Considering 3d platformers aren't that profitable and aren't necesairely what SonicTeam's interested in, their mindsets might be on a completely other dimension then ours.

It might be a bitterly cynical take, but I'm expecting the whole "Actual Sonic platform game" aspect of the next actual Sonic platform game to a secondairy or even lower priority of the next game, added in the most basic way because "it's what people expect"
While all the real focus and passion will be centered around whatever new Gimmick-of-the-week Sega thinks is profitable/ SonicTeam's interested in.

Hence why their occasional efforts to appease fans and add fanservice always feel so shallow and stupid, probably.

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The more I think about it after, when they announce the new mainline game, I want some sort of state of the game video where they into details on how the game is being developed and explain how they plan on improving and addressing feedback and issues people have with previous games, when making the next game, something just to assure fans that the game is going to be good and that they recognise the issues from previous games.

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46 minutes ago, Johnster4 said:

The more I think about it after, when they announce the new mainline game, I want some sort of state of the game video where they into details on how the game is being developed and explain how they plan on improving and addressing feedback and issues people have with previous games, when making the next game, something just to assure fans that the game is going to be good and that they recognise the issues from previous games.

I don't recall a single time SEGA actually did that verbally. They may take people's complaints into consideration for each new project, but in the end, they either pull a shameless lie, like the classic "from the people who brought you Colors and Generations", or are not fully transparent about it, as every goddamn year we get the same PR bullshit "we're taking more time to polish our next Sonic game, it's gonna be better yadda yadda yadda", but the games have essentialy the same issues, shallow solutions. Ten bucks when the first gameplay teaser drops it's going to be the same stuff as usual.

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