History Repeats: A look at the changing demographics of Sonic the Hedgehog

[Bowbowis]

Forgot to address this in my last post:

On 3/5/2020 at 10:03 AM, Kuzu said:

There just isn't anything equivalent for that with the 3D games, at least not yet. Mostly because 3D Sonic is a different type monster to tackle, and also because most Adventure fans like those games more for plot and characterization related reasons than gameplay related ones. 

About the only gameplay related critique hear from Adventure fans is related to games being pure 3D, but most of the screaming is related to peripheral stuff, and I think that's contributing to the division as well.

I think it's less a matter of Adventure fans not having gameplay related critiques as it is 95% of those critiques being indistinguishable from the critiques offered by Classic fans. After all, when you get down to it the gameplay in the Adventure titles was the first (and, thus far, only official) attempt at translating the Classic gameplay into 3D. They're not perfect, Adventure fans know they're not perfect. Inexperience, time constraints, and technical limitations forced Sonic Team to rely on various crutches in order to get a playable product out the door, and fans of those games want to see them brought up to modern standards, fully realized without the need for those crutches. In other words, they want a faithful adaptation of the Classic gameplay to 3D, much like a significant chunk of the Classic fanbase.  The reason Adventure fans are most visible when it comes to the subject of 3D and storytelling is because that's where they clash most fiercely with the more militant or apathetic segments of the Classic fanbase.

[Kuzu]

45 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

...I dont even you believe this my dude. Folks outhere making videos about classic sonic and the adventure to this day. Folks talking about unleashed or generations now. Folks are still talking about mania. It's not "talked out" it's not looked back fondly upon. And it's not a minority,  it's a majority.  The older crowd who praised it got their 2d sonic and have long since stopped pretending to give a crap about 3d sonic. And the younger crowd grew up enough to be able get on the net to call colors trash. Colors just dropped at the right time.

This is confirmation bias. Just because people talk more about Adventure and Classic Sonic doesn't mean Colors isn't good anymore and that's terrible logic to use.

Colors isn't talked about as much because as Roger said: it's still pretty recent by "modern" standards, people who grew up on that game are still pretty young overall.

I know it's hard to understand because this fanbase tends to live inside it's own little bubble, but outside of that, kids absolutely love Sonic and like his games because that's the demographic the series markets itself to; and just because some things are geared towards older audiences doesn't mean the younger crowd isn't liking it.

There's always going to be a new generation of kids who will come into the series, but the older crowd is slowly dwindling as time goes on.

[Shadowlax]

Do you honestly believe in the argument you are making right now. It makes little sense, and i'll argue the point. But I find you one of the more calm and informed posters on this site and this seems not up to usual standards.

Like the kid thing

I was a kid when colors came out, colors came out 11 years ago those kids are adults now. And if you wish to say younger children are going back , well if you go on places like twitter or reddit that houses the younger fanbase. They are talking about things even older and newer than colors. This is on top of the games sales going down and most of the engagement from this franchise in game form comes from mobile games these days. There's a just not interest in colors. It was a flash in the pan, and times are changing it happens.Its a game that got left behind. I apologize if i'm like " colors is the worst game evar" its not, but I think its decreased prominence over the years comes from more complicated factors than " adults " when the " adults " complaining about it were the kids who grew up with it.  We can keep going, but do honestly believe this?

 

 

[Kuzu]

I've already pointed out how your point is hinging on confirmation bias (I suggest you read this think how much this applies to you before you reply); your entire basis is only coming from the fact that you frequent other sites with people vocalizing these points. So in your head, you're justified because people are also agreeing with your own personal views, and you never bothered to seek out information that goes against it.  "People aren't talking about Colors, so therefore Colors isn't liked anymore" is your argument in a nutshell.

There are MILLIONS of people who use the internet every single day, and the average person on sites like Reddit or Twitter don't even come close to that amount.And that's not even getting into the people who DON'T use the Internet at all.  You're going to sit here and try and tell me that those small amount of users you read who despise Colors` writing make up the majority? Bullshit. 

If Colors was truly as disliked as you're trying to make it seem, then people would not feel the need to continuously praise it, long after it would no longer be relevant to doing so. Nobody talks about Colors, because there's nothing to talk about. The game came out, got good reviews, and people moved on. There's nothing glaringly wrong with it, and the only people who DO speak out against it are the vocal adventure fans who hate it's tone shift.   The only reason people are more vocal about Classic or Adventure is because 1) We just had a classic styled game three years ago, Colors` is a decade old by comparison  and 2) The aforementioned Adventure fans are being loud as fuck right now because they feel neglected and continually criticize Colors for "ruining Sonic".

Maybe instead of questioning my intelligence or beliefs, you should get out of your little bubble and do your own research on the matter and draw your own conclusions instead of just looking for information that reinforces and supports your own point of view and then act surprised when someone points out how flawed your reasoning is. 

[Whatever the WhoCares]

Even though I’m in my late 20s, I’ve always found myself most keenly nostalgic for early-2000s Sonic, manifested almost completely by SA2. I have yearned for a return to that game’s tone (maybe a little less dark) ever since 2010 or so. It’s refreshing for me to see people finally speaking out and expressing sentiments about current Sonic similar to my own. I’m sick and tired of self-aware, post-modern, ironic Sonic. It’s time to go back to something more innocent, earnest, and yes, edgy. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

23 hours ago, Kuzu said:

There's always going to be a new generation of kids who will come into the series, but the older crowd is slowly dwindling as time goes on.

You’d think with that approach to business that Sega would do the opposite and want more people buying their products regardless of age.

Is it any wonder why Nintendo’s business strategies tend to be more impactful when they succeed by comparison?

[Multikaris]

On 3/7/2020 at 7:20 AM, Milo said:

I think over the previous decade, there's also been a shift in where exactly people joining the internet are ending up to talk with each other. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd say people are gravitating more towards social media than forums, especially with how former major forums like Sonic Wrecks and Sega Forums have since been shuttered due to lack of activity or shift in management and direction. (Speaking of which...)

The lack of things to talk about regarding Sonic has been especially obvious with the lack of promotion of things to talk about from Sega themselves. Marketing for recent games has largely gone out the window after the 2015 restructure, and announcements for new games have left major showcase avenues like E3 and TGS in favor of the SXSW panels and the 25th Anniversary celebration, smaller venues aimed strictly for the fans. It doesn't help that even within the community, you also have the disappearance or diminished presence of fan conventions that were prolific in the early-mid 2010s, like Summer of Sonic and Sonic Boom. The end of the Archie Sonic comics and cancellation of issues in the pipeline also had a remarkably long stint of radio silence from both Sega and Archie, before it was officially confirmed to be over without minimal.

I think it goes without saying that a big reason for the (current) success of the Sonic movie was that it was the first project to give Sonic seriously widespread mainstream advertising, for the first time in decades, even if it was handled by Paramount themselves. Rather curious if Sega's going to consider putting more marketing dollars in Sonic as a brand again in the wake of the film's performance, or if they're going to continue charting their current course.

The announcement Boom was over was even more silent and obscure; it was an aside in an article about the new animated shorts. We went out on two years of radio silence, waiting, and hoping as SEGA silently and swiftly moved on past Boom. 

 

https://comicbook.com/gaming/2019/10/16/sonic-mania-adventures-animated-shorts-yukio-kusumoto-interview/

 

And now that SXSW is closed down, I think SEGA may be forced back to E3 as a result, unless of course SMT, Yakuza, and even Puyo take priority over Sonic nowadays, especially after they moved the series outside Japan. Even the merchandise has taken a hit; most of what GE is doing are silly variants instead of getting around to the handful of missing characters; and so far only Jakks has been adventurous, and even then exclusively with Classic.

[Fire-N-Space]

I agree with this video 100% Sonic nowadays is noting but memes and being self aware. Big Red Button's Sonic Boom didn't look so self aware but its development was ruin by Sega, probably for more memes. 

[Tarnish]

On 3/10/2020 at 2:08 AM, Miragnarok said:

And now that SXSW is closed down, I think SEGA may be forced back to E3 as a result

Well, so much for that it seems.

[Multikaris]

6 hours ago, Tarnish said:

Well, so much for that it seems.

Sega also said they'd present what they had to present in April, likely via the Sonic Station.

[Multikaris]

On 3/8/2020 at 9:10 AM, Roger_van_der_weide said:

I think the reason why modern Sonic doesn't have so many vocal fans (yet) is for several reasons

A ) Modern games are still on-going, so there's no need to fight for them yet. Abscense makes the heart the heart grow fonder.

B ) I suppose it takes a decade for people who grew up with these games to become the bitterly betrayed fans that Classic and Adventure are now. The kiddies coming into the series with the modern games consider Modern games to be normal and have no reason to think it'll be swapped for something diffrent soon. Or at least didn't have the experience to fully understand what it means when Sega burns everything to the ground to blindly chase after a new shiny direction.

C ) These games are selling a lot less then the Classic and 2000 era games did. Lost world and Rise of Lyric both scored under a million copies (And that's including their Handheld twins) while most Sonic games including the notoriously bad ones managed to hit over a million copies (Usually between 2 and 3 million even) without relying on a handheld twin.

D ) It also doesn't help Modern Sonic games muddle their own identity by being so desperate in relying on the past, so much that I consider Modern Sonic to be just a distorted evil twin of Classic Sonic with some mild Adventure Sonic thrown in.
What are the key memorable locations from Modern Sonic like what Green Hil Zone, Angel Island, Station Square and Space Colony Ark are to Classic and Adventure? Sonic Colors is the only one with a legit setting of it's own. Lost World should have but just feels like a bunch of random junk thrown together.
And memorable cahracters representing the era? Where's the Mighty the Armadillo or Shadow the Hedgehog from the Modern age? Anyone give a hoot about Yacker? Zavok? Sticks the Badger and the IDW characters are the only succesful characters and none of them are from Modern Sonic proper.

The Boost, Wisps and the detached post modern sense of humor are the only truly unique Modern Sonic elements. And the Boost technically already appeared in the Adventure era in Advance 2 (And Unleashed if that counts)

E ) While being innovative in and on itself doesn't mean the game is better, especially in hindsight, then a "merely" well executed fun game...
But pioneer games doing something impressive for the first time tend to leave the biggest footprint in the human conscious. Hence why the original is always better remembered then the sequels, even when some sequels are more refined and also "fun". Classic Sonic and Adventure Sonic were big innovators. Even if the Adventure games "didn't age well", they had a moment in time where they were hugely relevant and thus gotten their foot in the door of cultural relevance. But when's the last time Sonic was at the forefront of technology?


That said, I do notice some specific Modern Sonic love. In particular I see more and more fan games emulate the 3d/ 2d Swaps from this era. I can't imagine why you would do that in your own fangame that doesn't have the Pressure to succeed of and indecision of Sonic team involved, unless the game designers genuinely like that sort of thing.
So I'm sure there will be a group of vocal Modern fans demanding a Sonic Colors 2 or Lost world 2 half a decade after Sega entered whatever insane incomprehensible new direction they'll drunkingly stumble into next.  So they will join the Sonic mania 2/ Adventure 3 protesters soon enough.

Altough I still wonder if this Era will be referred to as the "modern" era then, since it would sound weird if there's a more "Modern er" era after it. Unless the fans of the current direction will share the great pleasure that Adventure fans have when their preferred direction is denied it's own identity and just absorbed into one general "all those filthy impure games that came after our lord and saviour the 16 bit era died" Modern Sonic identity.

C) Even Forces, the game with the most going for it, wasn't a good seller. Even on four platforms. Even with the mobile tie-in thingy.

D) This is the biggest point. The closest thing to a successful modern character, discounting alternate media, are a customizable Avatar for the player and a one-shot irredeemable villain; Infinite. And even then, he's outshined by older characters, as are the aforementioned alternate media ones. They also went right back to characters like DoDonpa afterwards. Even settings-wise, while games like Forces tried to be more original, they weren't memorable like Unleashed and Colors. Only the worst, most completely nonsensical settings of Lost World pop out to me, namely the donut level, and it's kind of "The Kiss" of Modern.  Nothing else as good as Ice Cap. Though the establishment of recurring locations might make up for it, though not really. Anybody even remember parkour? 

 

E) Black Knight, Generations if by visuals only. Though Forces did try with elements like online sharing, the budget just wasn't there.