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PhoenixtheJackal

Why is everyone taking Infinite Seriously, a Discussion about Infinite's character, and why he's in my top 5 characters.

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30 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

I'm not weak. I'm not. I'M NOT WEAK! rrrrRRRRAAAAAAUAAFHFHFGH!

I mean yes that line is weird, but I would like to know more about what they dont like specifically

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15 hours ago, DabigRG said:

I'm not weak. I'm not. I'M NOT WEAK! rrrrRRRRAAAAAAUAAFHFHFGH!

In the Japanese version it sounded like Infinite was having a breakdown instead of being a sore loser

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I like Infinite both ironically and unironically.

To be fair, the whole 'I'm not weak' moment is mostly so funny because of the bad voice acting, it's much better in the Japanese VA where it is much more believable. 

And while the scene is really over the top and isn't meant to be ironically funny, I still think it makes Infinite way more interesting than any other recent Sonic villain because he at least has reasons for being evil, even if they are a bit silly. I find it more interesting than Zavok who is evil just because. But I guess that's a matter of taste.

I also think he acts like a ridiculous child elsewhere in the game. Particularly when you beat him in his final battle and he starts stomping his foot wanting to still fight but Eggman calls him away. It's completely in tone with his character in the Shadow prequel. As soon as he starts losing he stats acting like a little kid. It's not incredibly deep, but again I think it's more interesting than most Sonic villains.

But otherwise, Infinite is really over the top and we are so obviously supposed to be in on the joke. He's always supposed to be intimidating and menacing yes, but he's so obviously over the top with his hammy dialogue, edgy design and theme song that I cannot believe for a second that it isn't intentional. And yeah, Forces is horribly inconsistently written in tone, but I still can't believe it's all a coincidence. He's a dangerous villain but with a pantomime-esque behaviour. Not too dissimilar to Eggman.

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19 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

I mean yes that line is weird, but I would like to know more about what they dont like specifically

Well since he hasn't gotten you back yet, it's likely just a funny if pathetic showing for the guy.

4 hours ago, ComeAsYouAre said:

In the Japanese version it sounded like Infinite was having a breakdown instead of being a sore loser

There's a difference?

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3 hours ago, Plasme said:

I like Infinite both ironically and unironically.

To be fair, the whole 'I'm not weak' moment is mostly so funny because of the bad voice acting, it's much better in the Japanese VA where it is much more believable. 

And while the scene is really over the top and isn't meant to be ironically funny, I still think it makes Infinite way more interesting than any other recent Sonic villain because he at least has reasons for being evil, even if they are a bit silly. I find it more interesting than Zavok who is evil just because. But I guess that's a matter of taste.

I also think he acts like a ridiculous child elsewhere in the game. Particularly when you beat him in his final battle and he starts stomping his foot wanting to still fight but Eggman calls him away. It's completely in tone with his character in the Shadow prequel. As soon as he starts losing he stats acting like a little kid. It's not incredibly deep, but again I think it's more interesting than most Sonic villains.

But otherwise, Infinite is really over the top and we are so obviously supposed to be in on the joke. He's always supposed to be intimidating and menacing yes, but he's so obviously over the top with his hammy dialogue, edgy design and theme song that I cannot believe for a second that it isn't intentional. And yeah, Forces is horribly inconsistently written in tone, but I still can't believe it's all a coincidence. He's a dangerous villain but with a pantomime-esque behaviour. Not too dissimilar to Eggman.

Infinite was a bad guy from the start. Shadow mopping the floor with him is just what motivated him to use the Phantom Ruby's power. That said, "social-Darwinist mercenary with a sadistic streak" is still a more concrete motive and backstory than the Deadly Six got.

Otherwise, he's basically the series Kylo Ren:

 

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He is legitimately the first new Sonic character in a long time where there was an attempt to build a character instead of a big, colorful blob that serves a function and nothing more. 

He's still not even as good as characters like Silver or Jet but it's a start. 

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3 hours ago, Bowbowis said:

He's basically the series Kylo Ren:

 

I don't think he's built up with quite that much care and good writing, but I think you are definitely supposed to read something like that in his character.

A good example is this cutscene:

His initial defeat scene isn't too out of the ordinary, but when he stomps the ground complaining that Eggman drags him away, I think you are definitely supposed to read that he's not as powerful or in control as you've been led to believe. Eggman is the clear mastermind and antagonist in the game.

I also just think it's interesting that he's supremely arrogant the whole way through, letting both Sonic and the Buddy go when he defeats them, something even Eggman gets annoyed about. It's also good because he's authentically arrogant in that he isn't as strong as he thinks he is and deep down he knows it.

I get it, an arrogant and intimidating villain who is sometimes shown not to be as powerful as he claims and somewhat putting on a mask isn't that interesting. And while he's definitely hammed up on purpose, he isn't built up to be a complete parody of awful Sonic villains like Mephilles either. Still, I find him much more interesting than any Sonic villain other than Eggman, Chaos, Shadow and Metal Sonic.

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10 hours ago, Plasme said:

I like Infinite both ironically and unironically.

To be fair, the whole 'I'm not weak' moment is mostly so funny because of the bad voice acting, it's much better in the Japanese VA where it is much more believable. 

Uh, was it the voice acting or the script? 

10 hours ago, Plasme said:

And while the scene is really over the top and isn't meant to be ironically funny, I still think it makes Infinite way more interesting than any other recent Sonic villain because he at least has reasons for being evil, even if they are a bit silly. I find it more interesting than Zavok who is evil just because. But I guess that's a matter of taste.

 

6 hours ago, Bowbowis said:

Infinite was a bad guy from the start. Shadow mopping the floor with him is just what motivated him to use the Phantom Ruby's power. That said, "social-Darwinist mercenary with a sadistic streak" is still a more concrete motive and backstory than the Deadly Six got.

To be fair, I don't think Zavok's evil just because so much as that's what Master Zik taught him as a successor to his ways. Plus the Zeti's thing in the context of Lost World proper was that Eggman came to their land to enslave them for his conquest of Sonic's World and then they set about taking revenge against him in a way that further compensates them.

The issue is they didn't get much else beyond that, including what Zik was seeking in the first place, and now they're essentially recurring characters with their own backyard & dare say culture(ex.Zor practice taboo arts even among them) that never got properly explained nor have they gotten much further development beyond what Zavok's variably relevant bios allude to.

 

 

6 hours ago, Bowbowis said:

Otherwise, he's basically the series Kylo Ren:

 

Yeah, pretty much.

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I ain't really been keeping up with this particular topic. So I'm just going to state my overall opinions on Infinite as a whole. Despite already making a video about his return like 3-months ago.

So Infinite is one of my favorite & one of the most powerful Sonic villains. No question about it. Whether that be in terms of design, powers & edge. If he out-edges Shadow, I don't know about that. He's mainly underutilized, that's my issue about this character. He's capable of all these different things; creating Null Space, alternate realities, illusions, manipulating existence. And of course duplicate characters who are just as powerful as the originals.

Yet is never properly utilized, examples include; Shadow & Chaos done for in 1-go, lack of any Perfect Chaos' (exception for the Metropolis Avatar stage) or Metal Overlord's. Even a boss battle pitting Sonic against a duplicate of himself, same for the other characters. Which could've created a "who could you trust" story aspect, therefore adding more depth to the games story. Think about it, if they really wanted to be rid of the Resistance, why not just do that & do it from the inside? I mean, he created a fake Rouge & E-123 for crying out loud!

As for the whole "I'm Not Weak" line. I just take it that he's Never lost a fight before, so logically he thought very highly of himself & just lost it when that happened.

This probably isn't all of my points about the character, but even with that I think he's still a much better character than the last Modern series villain, Zavok. Who Sega just keeps throwing around despite mixed reception. With Infinite they at least tried.

But if they for some random reason they decide to bring Infinite back like Zavok & Shadow after their introductions. Then I'd be open to it, he just wouldn't have the Phantom Ruby anymore. Unless part of it survived or something. Either way, he's got future potential if done right. Heck, even the IDW Comics could've helped with that if he wasn't basically banned from appearing.

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2 hours ago, ComeAsYouAre said:

The Japanese version made it feel like he lost his mind 

Didn't feel that different to me, honestly. Sounded different and more insane, for sure, but I came away feeling the same.

I'm sure there's a way to fix it or capitalize on whatever it was they were going for that'll make it so just seeing the guy doesn't make me feel instant second-hand embarrassment but until he shows up again, there won't be much of a chance at it happening. All we're left with is just what we can interpret from the game.

It doesn't seem like they're too eager to use Infinite again at the moment.

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I can understand why you like him, but honestly I think he's to boring to provoke any feeling on me, he's too stupid to be unnironicly enjoyable, but not stupid enough to be funny, there's nothing too absurd about him, he's just another bad written character between hundreds of those. The fact that he has so little interesting things to do in this story also helps, he seems more of a plot device to me, like, he's just a weapon that Eggman used to conquer the world, you could remove him entirely from Forces and you only would need one or two changes for it to be completely unnoticeable... Okay, to be fair, you could say that to almost every character on Sonic Forces, but still

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45 minutes ago, NeoZDuwang said:

he seems more of a plot device to me, like, he's just a weapon that Eggman used to conquer the world, 

I mean...yeah. 

He's literally just a sentient vessel for the Phantom Ruby.

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2 hours ago, DabigRG said:

I mean...yeah. 

He's literally just a sentient vessel for the Phantom Ruby.

Sapient not Sentient Sentience is just feeling emotions Sapience is being able to think and have a language

 

2 hours ago, NeoZDuwang said:

I can understand why you like him, but honestly I think he's to boring to provoke any feeling on me, he's too stupid to be unnironicly enjoyable, but not stupid enough to be funny, there's nothing too absurd about him, he's just another bad written character between hundreds of those. The fact that he has so little interesting things to do in this story also helps, he seems more of a plot device to me, like, he's just a weapon that Eggman used to conquer the world, you could remove him entirely from Forces and you only would need one or two changes for it to be completely unnoticeable... Okay, to be fair, you could say that to almost every character on Sonic Forces, but still

I dunno I thought how serious he was, was funny itself, I know I laughed so much at I'm not weak, cuz it's completely serious but it's so dumb, Liam O'Brien did great which is why it's funny

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Just now, PhoenixtheJackal said:

Sapient not Sentient Sentience is just feeling emotions Sapience is being able to think and have a language

Oh yeah, homo sapiens.

How the frick did I forget that?

 

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They honestly should have stuck with the personality he had in Episode Shadow; he was way more over the top and full of himself there. The hammier he is, the more entertaining I would have liked to watch him.

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10 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

They honestly should have stuck with the personality he had in Episode Shadow; he was way more over the top and full of himself there. The hammier he is, the more entertaining I would have liked to watch him.

Was he? I mostly remember him being annoyed by Eggman barking orders before trying to get revenge on Shadow.

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1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

Was he? I mostly remember him being annoyed by Eggman barking orders before trying to get revenge on Shadow.

It's mostly when he first confronts Shadow in those crappy ass text boxes. 

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So, today I replayed Sonic Forces for no particular reasons, and I was surprised by how different it is from how I remembered it.

Aside of the mess that is gameplay and level design (it's a confused mess of questionable choices, bad stuff, good stuff ruined by the bad physics and wasted/unused potential), the story is so inconsistent, the characters are inconsistent too, including Infinite.

Some scenes, Infinite is an emotionless cold calculator, other scene he's just a coward jerk who boasts himself and nothing more, and rages at humiliations. Yes, it seems the game wants us to take him very seriously, I didn't remember that... for some reason the scenes where he's a boasting jerk remained stuck in my mind more than when he tries to be edgy (maybe he stands more as a boasting jerk than as a DBZ villain ripoff?).

Stuff such as when he complains at Eggman when he wants to do a strategic retreat, or when he meets Sonic and says "I'll show you how much superior I am"... he doesn't seem to care of what's going on, he only cares to show the world how strong he is and hates losing.

Also, lol, the phantom ruby requires a big energy source in order to work, but when the energy sources that powered the phantom ruby are gone, the Death Egg Robot uses the phantom ruby as an energy source? I'm missing something or what...

 

So my take of how the character should be written is:

-He is a jerk who used to never lose a fight thanks to his gang.

    -When he loses, he hates it and cries like a baby... he shows being a big coward and only being effectively strong when supported by his gang/phantom ruby; when he can hide himself behind a big power or numeric superiority, he boasts himself and likes to humiliate other people, but when he's actually alone and with his own power only, he's just a coward.

    -Inferiority complex, indeed

    -He seems to not care about other people, not even team mates... his mercenary squad was "killed" and he didn't give a ****, he just got salty for the humiliation

    -When he feels superior, he gives himself an attitude and acts like an edgy shonen anime villain, but in a way that's ridicolous... despite this, the power he owns makes him dangerous for real, and this especially makes him a very hateful villain, very satisfying to defeat when you manage to; overall he's one who makes more words than facts.

    -He makes it look like the mask is intimidating, but in fact he wears it mostly to hide his real face, because his self esteem dropped down to zero after the Shadow event. He unconsciously considers himself a looser, but refuses to accept to see himself that way, and this contrasting feeling makes him a really unstable and crazy person, mentally sick (he created a second identity as Infinite in order to address this, he's a looser but he's not the same identity, the former identity is the looser).

-In order to use the phantom ruby, he needs power

    -Eggman betrayed him. It's not clear if he died or survived, but in case he ever returns, I doubt Eggman would give him any energy source anymore

    -Being in constant need of power, he could become a sort of "vampire" that instead of sucking blood, steals and corrupts wathever can produce the energy he needs in order to activate his ruby

-He hates Shadow more than anything else. No, not in the original game, because it's bad written... but definitely he should... the whole point of him becoming Infinite is to get revenge for his humiliation, so it's natural for him to want to humiliate the guy who humiliated him first.

    -he also hates Eggman for a similar reason, so even being a villain, his actions can occasionally be helpful to the heroes because they fight against the same enemy.

-He's a mercenary, meaning that he can work for anyone in order to obtain wathever he wants... in special cases he even works for his enemy if that means he can reach his goal

    -He's very lame, he uses cheap tricks as long as they will help him to get to his goal... he doesn't care of being superior in a fair way, he just wants to be superior.

 

I would make him Shadow's personal enemy, and to power up the phantom ruby, I would give him a new device that he would wear on his back, powered with visible chaos drives (possibly red ones only to fit the color scheme), shaped like glowing wings kinda; a project stolen from GUN or something.

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3 hours ago, Iko said:

.

Also, lol, the phantom ruby requires a big energy source in order to work, but when the energy sources that powered the phantom ruby are gone, the Death Egg Robot uses the phantom ruby as an energy source? I'm missing something or what...

 

-In order to use the phantom ruby, he needs power

    -Eggman betrayed him. It's not clear if he died or survived, but in case he ever returns, I doubt Eggman would give him any energy source anymore

    -Being in constant need of power, he could become a sort of "vampire" that instead of sucking blood, steals and corrupts wathever can produce the energy he needs in order to activate his ruby

 

The Ruby Infinite used is likely not  the original. Eggman used the real Phantom Ruby as a basis for the prototypes that would allow him to test and perfect it's unique power, but they came with a condition--they only work for the person who first trigger them. So even on the chance it was the original, Infinite couldn't actually use it well himself--Eggman is the real wielder.

The generators and factories were basically there to produce more successful copies for the two to use and by the time Sonic and Buddy take out the underground factory, Infinite had already outlived his usualness and had his power stripped/repurposed to give the Mega Death Egg Robot the ability to overclock the Phantom Ruby outright.

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On 4/13/2020 at 3:18 AM, Iko said:

Some scenes, Infinite is an emotionless cold calculator, other scene he's just a coward jerk who boasts himself and nothing more, and rages at humiliations. Yes, it seems the game wants us to take him very seriously, I didn't remember that... for some reason the scenes where he's a boasting jerk remained stuck in my mind more than when he tries to be edgy (maybe he stands more as a boasting jerk than as a DBZ villain ripoff?).

 

I thought the Boasting Jerk was the edgy cuz that's basically Shadow's currently personality and people call him edgy, the way I think of it Edgy is trying to be Tough and Scary, so Infinite tries to be all Emotionless and calculating, but any time he has the slightest upper hand he starts boasting like when he beat Sonic and did the villain trope of "He isn't worth Killing", and Eggman was like what the hell, but he needed Infinite, and I also thought of Infinite's persona as him being really insecure, and one of Edgy's definitions us Being really nervous, which is what insecurities are being nervous about a Specific thing, and Infinite's was his weaknesses, and he did everything to hide it (even though the prequel says no he was actually strong, which kinda hurts my entire view of him)

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I like the idea of Infinite's character becuase he has this massive complex about needing to be strongest and in the end it made him weak, he became moreso what he feared in his effort to avoid it, trading his strength of character for immense powers.

Now just keep writing instead of leaving it half-finished.

 

 

 

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On 4/17/2020 at 2:19 PM, PhoenixtheJackal said:

I thought the Boasting Jerk was the edgy cuz that's basically Shadow's currently personality and people call him edgy, the way I think of it Edgy is trying to be Tough and Scary, so Infinite tries to be all Emotionless and calculating, but any time he has the slightest upper hand he starts boasting like when he beat Sonic and did the villain trope of "He isn't worth Killing", and Eggman was like what the hell, but he needed Infinite, and I also thought of Infinite's persona as him being really insecure, and one of Edgy's definitions us Being really nervous, which is what insecurities are being nervous about a Specific thing, and Infinite's was his weaknesses, and he did everything to hide it (even though the prequel says no he was actually strong, which kinda hurts my entire view of him)

 

12 minutes ago, Original Character said:

I like the idea of Infinite's character becuase he has this massive complex about needing to be strongest and in the end it made him weak, he became moreso what he feared in his effort to avoid it, trading his strength of character for immense powers.

Now just keep writing instead of leaving it half-finished.

 

 

 

I want to point out that Ian Flynn was given the material and your takes might be a bit more complex that what his personality is, apparently he just wants to watch the world burn. No fears, No anger, insecurities, or anything. Just chaos

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