What are the positive elements the series can learn from the 3d games for the future?

[Wraith]

On 3/23/2020 at 10:14 PM, Diogenes said:

I mean they still need to fill in the space around those ideas (plus coming up with better interpretations of things like parkour). To throw some of my own ideas/thoughts out there:

-Move the homing attack from the jump button to a dedicated attack button and make it work on the ground (probably only against grounded enemies).
-A run button, more for controlling acceleration than top speed.
-The basic parkour wall run shouldn't be stiff and scripted like in Lost World, it should just be an extension of the existing slope physics. Run/jump against a wall, press the run button, and as long as you're moving fast enough parallel to the wall you start running on it. There might still be some use for an extra scripted "push" to get Sonic running straight up a wall, though; it's harder to get enough upwards speed naturally.
-A replacement for the drift, I'm thinking a brake button except you don't just lose your momentum but store it temporarily, and you can release it and blast off once you reorient yourself. Sort of like a manual version of how Sonic takes sharp turns in the storybook games.
-Some kind of midair brake move maybe? Like a micro-double-jump, something like Mario Galaxy's spin, that can stop you from flying off god knows where but doesn't lock you into a drop like the stomp or bounce.
-Level design needs, like...just a completely new philosophy, I don't think any 3D Sonic has a genuinely good approach to 3D level design. The way I see it it feels like they design levels by opening a blank file and immediately starting to draw the individual paths, so even when there are multiple paths they tend to feel like disconnected hallways and catwalks; what I think they should be doing is starting with designing and building the meta-path, the wider playable space that all the specific paths will exist in, and then carve and sculpt the specific paths into that space so that they're organic parts of it and not just a bunch of disconnected lines.
-The levels' collision geometry should probably be as simple as possible; flat planes, smooth curves, no weird little greebly bits to trip on. They could decorate it a bit to look more organic, but the "lumpier" the underlying geometry, the less predictable your interactions with it. Alternatively, I don't know how practical this is (probably isn't), but I've wondered about actually having two different sets of collision geometry; a more detailed one while moving at low speeds that can be more accurate to the visuals, and a simplified one for high speeds to smooth things out.

 

I'm not sure what the functional purpose is for allowing homing attack on the ground and only letting it hit ground based enemies. 

[Diogenes]

5 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I'm not sure what the functional purpose is for allowing homing attack on the ground and only letting it hit ground based enemies. 

For the grounded homing attack existing at all, the homing attack is powerful and reliable enough that it's hard to justify trying to roll/slide/boost into grounded enemies a lot of the time (basically whenever they're not set up like bowling pins) instead of just homing attacking them. Being able to homing attack in either state brings them under the same umbrella instead of one side being neglected. As for why it'd only target grounded enemies, I'd figure if you wanted to be in the air you'd jump yourself; if you're homing attacking from the ground you'd want to stay on the ground. So the grounded homing attack would pierce through enemies and leave you rolling afterwards instead of bouncing you into the air.

[Wraith]

11 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

For the grounded homing attack existing at all, the homing attack is powerful and reliable enough that it's hard to justify trying to roll/slide/boost into grounded enemies a lot of the time (basically whenever they're not set up like bowling pins) instead of just homing attacking them. Being able to homing attack in either state brings them under the same umbrella instead of one side being neglected. As for why it'd only target grounded enemies, I'd figure if you wanted to be in the air you'd jump yourself; if you're homing attacking from the ground you'd want to stay on the ground. So the grounded homing attack would pierce through enemies and leave you rolling afterwards instead of bouncing you into the air.

Oh you're literally saying Sonic would just shoot toward enemies on the ground and keep it moving. I was imagining he would still shoot in an arc and pop up.

I would rather them try and encourage the grounded attack options more. Mario Galaxy had the sweeping attack as an easy way to beat enemies in a 3D space but the coin bonus meant landing a precise jump was rewarded anyway for those who liked to be old fashioned. Having the homing attack pop you up in the air makes sense to me versus the reward you get for taking the less precise route(rolling into them, which takes more skill on your part but your momentum is kept.)

This means that the vast majority of players would still be mashing homing attack every encounter though which is probably the real thing you want to address. Cutting out the middle man and keeping every player on the ground and rolling more. Makes sense. 

[Kuzu]

Sonic Robo Blast 2 had something akin to that I believe.

[Bowbowis]

The somersault in SA2 did lock on to nearby enemies, though with nowhere near the range of the aerial homing attack. Which is fine honestly. The main reason you need a homing attack in the air is that the alternative is trying to align Sonic with the enemy on all three axes. Whereas on the ground you only really need to worry about one.

[StaticMania]

The somersault locked on, but neither it nor rolling kept going after hitting an enemy...

That shouldn't be a problem anymore and more simple solution is that Sonic locks onto an enemy the moment you activate the spindash.

In an ideal world, it wouldn't function exactly like in SA1 or SA2, so people wouldn't be spamming it to get annoyed by that aspect.

Or you could just tap it to get that effect, whichever works.