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1 hour ago, batson said:

I think that something that gets easily forgotten is that the assertive "temper tantrum"-Amy of the Adventure era is not the characters original personality. As far as we could tell about classic era Amy, she was perfectly nice and innocent. Nothing in-game and no official artwork from that era indicates assertiveness or a hot temperament.

My point is that it could be argued that Adventure-era Amy isn't necassarely something that we automatically must accept as how the character "should" be. The current, mature and level-headed version of the character might depart from Adventure Amy, but Adventure Amy herself departed from classic Amy. With this in mind, one could argue that the current Amy is no less valid an interpretation of the character than Adventure Amy.

Well, yeah. That's something that mostly came after they promoted her to main character status complete with a redesign.

That said, she does throw a crying fit if she loses in Fighters. The only characters to top that are Bean and Knuckles.

On 4/19/2020 at 11:04 PM, E-122-Psi said:

That's why I say the last points of pre-reboot, I think it was when Cream came along they were starting to try to 'click' Amy.

Click?

On 4/19/2020 at 11:04 PM, E-122-Psi said:

And also because you know, Shadow was the super popular brooding humourless anti hero. He was the one guy assured to have ZERO chance of playing along with a 'scary Amy' gag. :P

True dat.

On 4/19/2020 at 11:04 PM, E-122-Psi said:

I get that 'it's just a damn joke!' but I do feel that plays into Amy being so obnoxious and one note to some during the Sonic X era, being a formulaic 'scary girl' who seldom got her then most defining flaw humanised or reigned in like the others did.

That it was a lot of people's first or at least most concentrated exposure to her doesn't help.

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20 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

Sometimes going on other sites is funny.

https://old.reddit.com/r/SonicTheHedgehog/comments/g5zx1q/who_surived_the_2010_charcter_purge_this_not_a/

According to Reddit, Amy's character "improved" 

Honestly, I'm still kind of in the camp.

Like don't get me wrong, I think that they really do need to bring a fair amount of that side of her back. For better and/ or for worse, it's pretty much her defining character trait. I do think they're doing he original fans a disservice in constantly burying it.

That being said, I'm not going to lie and say that I didn't enjoy her being able to do other things that weren't solely Sonic related in things like the Boom TV show. Always took it as a part of the route she realistically should've followed after her SA1 arc. Though, the real problem with this current iteration of her is that they didn't really cover the gaps that were left in her personality after the removal of that pure Sonic fixation. While she certainly does a lot more, there isn't really much to her nowadays that makes her stand out.

Put simply, I'd like to see her character retain more of her classic charm while still being given more of her own, non-Sonic related, traits to go with it.

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2 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Well, yeah. That's something that mostly came after they promoted her to main character status complete with a redesign.

That said, she does throw a crying fit if she loses in Fighters. The only characters to top that are Bean and Knuckles.

Yeah and the general implication of her sprites and what not in the classic games do still tend to imply she was kind of childish and annoying, especially towards Sonic who she just won't accept no towards even back then (see Drift's ending). In that sense, her having a bratty temperament isn't really out of nowhere, at least not as much as her being mature. Amy was at least always childish.

2 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Click?

"Get". Figure out what to do with.

8 minutes ago, Strickerx5 said:

Honestly, I'm still kind of in the camp.

Like don't get me wrong, I think that they really do need to bring a fair amount of that side of her back. For better and/ or for worse, it's pretty much her defining character trait. I do think they're doing he original fans a disservice in constantly burying it.

That being said, I'm not going to lie and say that I didn't enjoy her being able to do other things that weren't solely Sonic related in things like the Boom TV show. Always took it as a part of the route she realistically should've followed after her SA1 arc. Though, the real problem with this current iteration of her is that they didn't really cover the gaps that were left in her personality after the removal of that pure Sonic fixation. While she certainly does a lot more, there isn't really much to her nowadays that makes her stand out.

Put simply, I'd like to see her character retain more of her classic charm while still being given more of her own, non-Sonic related, traits to go with it.

I think Boom worked better due to the slice of life format, which kinda fit Amy's more 'everygirl' role she had before. I liked seeing her have an ambitious streak like making a restaurant or wanting to be utilised for etiquette/design, or other times take interest in novelties or collectables. I think this ability to make 'normal' activities amusing through her eccentricity or hubris was what made her humanised originally, even in flanderized cases like Sonic X. This has potential really as it could make her some attachment to the civilians of the Sonic universe.

This isn't really something they can do with the current Forces dynamic where everyone is nearly always in soldier/hero squad mode.

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29 minutes ago, Strickerx5 said:

Honestly, I'm still kind of in the camp.

Like don't get me wrong, I think that they really do need to bring a fair amount of that side of her back. For better and/ or for worse, it's pretty much her defining character trait. I do think they're doing he original fans a disservice in constantly burying it.

That being said, I'm not going to lie and say that I didn't enjoy her being able to do other things that weren't solely Sonic related in things like the Boom TV show. Always took it as a part of the route she realistically should've followed after her SA1 arc. Though, the real problem with this current iteration of her is that they didn't really cover the gaps that were left in her personality after the removal of that pure Sonic fixation. While she certainly does a lot more, there isn't really much to her nowadays that makes her stand out.

Put simply, I'd like to see her character retain more of her classic charm while still being given more of her own, non-Sonic related, traits to go with it.

They got rid of her "spark" but didn't really replace it with anything else. Absence of a flaw isn't really "improvement", it's just kind of a stop gap. 

I do think Boom utilized her much better, because the down to earth nature of the show allowed her room to breathe as @E-122-Psi pointed out. 

Since the video games are constantly moving along with the next big adventure, there's no room to explore Amy's character unless she gets her own little side stories. 

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35 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

Yeah and the general implication of her sprites and what not in the classic games do still tend to imply she was kind of childish and annoying, especially towards Sonic who she just won't accept no towards.  In that sense, her having a bratty temperament isn't really out of nowhere, at least not as much as her being mature. Amy was at least always childish.

Pretty much

Quote

(see Drift's ending).

dbeib6v-dfd15292-e740-4a10-8989-cdd17ab1

Quote

"Get". Figure out what to do with.

Oh. Well they kinda had to around that point.

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At least she had a personality before. Now she's just bland and uninteresting. You could swap her out with any other character and not see a difference

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2 hours ago, Stritix said:

At least she had a personality before. Now she's just bland and uninteresting. You could swap her out with any other character and not see a difference

True. But man, her old personality was annoying. I'm really on the fence about this...

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Just now, batson said:

True. But man, her old personality was annoying. I'm really on the fence about this...

I don't find her old personality annoying. I found her hilarious at times. She just needed better writing

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3 minutes ago, Stritix said:

I don't find her old personality annoying. I found her hilarious at times. She just needed better writing

I have a problem with her entire character archetype. Whether we're talking Bulma from Dragon Ball or Sakura from Naruto, that distincly japanese "girl who gets angry and screams at her teammates in a comical fashion"-type just gets on my nerves. I've never found them either likable or funny. But that's just me.

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2 hours ago, batson said:

I have a problem with her entire character archetype. Whether we're talking Bulma from Dragon Ball or Sakura from Naruto, that distincly japanese "girl who gets angry and screams at her teammates in a comical fashion"-type just gets on my nerves. I've never found them either likable or funny. But that's just me.

It depends on the context. I thought she was pretty funny in Sonic Adventure 2. She just needs to be written better. She doesn't need her personality dropped

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5 hours ago, batson said:

I have a problem with her entire character archetype. Whether we're talking Bulma from Dragon Ball or Sakura from Naruto, that distincly japanese "girl who gets angry and screams at her teammates in a comical fashion"-type just gets on my nerves. I've never found them either likable or funny. But that's just me.

I think it depends on the moderation of the quirk. Generally a character that's a bit hot headed or easily frustrated can still be quite likeable or even pitiful at times, especially if their temper keeps backfiring on them. The general problem with the more exagerrated cases, especially in anime, is that they tend to be utilise the 'double standard abuse' cliche. Even if this trope gels, an abuser/bully character is not really sympathetic. All all. The old gag of a girl turning demonhead and roughing up her comrades at the drop of a pin may be funny to some, but it still doesn't really make for a likeable character which Amy is supposedly meant to be, especially if they are never reigned in or suffer a comeuppance, which is sadly regular.

This is the regular difference between the SA and Boom Amys against the Sonic X-era Amy for example, since the former maintain a temper issue, but very rarely scale it to abusive standards. Most of the time it's just ineffectual tantrums or frustrations over legitimate hardships, and there's far more times she is put back in her place when she starts to near outright 'jerk' levels.

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1 minute ago, DabigRG said:

The First two Riders were also pretty good about it, as she only got violent when legitimately mistreated or hassled in a significant way.

Yeah, the hero ending was pretty well justified 'rage mode Amy' moment. Seriously Sonic, what did you think would happen after blasting her off with Eggman? :P

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1 minute ago, E-122-Psi said:

Yeah, the hero ending was pretty well justified 'rage mode Amy' moment. Seriously Sonic, what did you think would happen after blasting her off with Eggman? :P

Ch'yeah, especially when she actually tried to stop him the moment he made his move.

And in Zero Gravity, she actually gets chased quite a distance by Storm because she still had an Ark of the Cosmos before finally deciding she's had enough, smacks him with her hammer, and even has him escorting her back to the others when HD attacks.

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1 hour ago, E-122-Psi said:

I think it depends on the moderation of the quirk. Generally a character that's a bit hot headed or easily frustrated can still be quite likeable or even pitiful at times, especially if their temper keeps backfiring on them. The general problem with the more exagerrated cases, especially in anime, is that they tend to be utilise the 'double standard abuse' cliche. Even if this trope gels, an abuser/bully character is not really sympathetic. All all. The old gag of a girl turning demonhead and roughing up her comrades at the drop of a pin may be funny to some, but it still doesn't really make for a likeable character which Amy is supposedly meant to be, especially if they are never reigned in or suffer a comeuppance, which is sadly regular.

This is the regular difference between the SA and Boom Amys against the Sonic X-era Amy for example, since the former maintain a temper issue, but very rarely scale it to abusive standards. Most of the time it's just ineffectual tantrums or frustrations over legitimate hardships, and there's far more times she is put back in her place when she starts to near outright 'jerk' levels.

Well someone called her an "antagonist" so YMMV there lol. 

But yea, there's kind of a reason the "Tsundere" archetype, specifically the physically abusive variant, has fallen out of favor. It doesn't really make for a likable character in the long run,  and is a much more divisive character archetype in Western territories. 

Honestly, if the series could just balance her anger moments with her sweeter moments, they'd be a lot more tolerable. But Amy herself hasn't been very important in recent years, so she doesn't really many opportunities to show off her personality.

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2 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Ch'yeah, especially when she actually tried to stop him the moment he made his move.

And in Zero Gravity, she actually gets chased quite a distance by Storm because she still had an Ark of the Cosmos before finally deciding she's had enough, smacks him with her hammer, and even has him escorting her back to the others when HD attacks.

Even in those, notice the care for two way foiling here.

The emphasis on both of these seems to be more Amy's temper blending badly with Sonic being a careless rogue and Storm ultimately being an easily flustered wimp (and even he leaves Amy high and dry later on). It's not just Amy being such a comically volatile and 'scary' brat that her shtick overpowers any scenario. 

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4 hours ago, Kuzu said:

Honestly, if the series could just balance her anger moments with her sweeter moments, they'd be a lot more tolerable. But Amy herself hasn't been very important in recent years, so she doesn't really many opportunities to show off her personality.

If there's one thing that I think undermines Amy, it's how they often fail to implement her abilities into her actual personality most of the time. When you look into a lot of the character gameplays, they intertwine with their general personalities. Sonic is created to just recklessly speed through, Tails is created for co-op purposes with Sonic, Knuckles uses brute force (though is sly about secret areas), Mighty is also strength based but bases himself more on passive defensive capabilities.

Amy's gameplay rarely demonstrates someone who just smashes through everything wildly. She's generally a character mechanic who in fact looks underpowered at face value, but is wily and agile enough to still capitalise and keep up with everyone else. Advance 1 Amy is a character you have to be CLEVER with to utilise well. They rarely convey that in stories, STC and Boom are the nearest to doing so (and she doesn't even have her hammer in STC) otherwise we don't see a lot of her using her hammer resourcefully or showing her athletic prowess. She's generally just in 'Amy smash' mode, which I think plays a lot into her just being flanderized into a dim rageaholic and this newer more strategic version of her not really having enough context and ties.

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