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I think the thing with Gamma wasn't just her 'niceness' but naive, childlike simplicity of how she goes about that niceness that wins things over. I admit I wasn't as sold over with the Shadow one, it felt more like a forced in monologue though maybe more because Amy's personality wasn't as focused there.

I could argue Boom Amy was the start of 'maturing' her personality into 'Sally 2.0' but I guess there she was at least a FUN Sally, one that was still undermined and had a colourful tint about her role. Her niceness towards the bad guys was also still demonstrated in a silly yet charming way, this Amy was still eccentric and temperamental in spite of her smarter older persona, just maybe not quite how we know her for.

The problem is they seem to have the hardest time nailing the balance with Amy's idiosyncrasies. She's either the blandly nice girl with the intellect of an adult, or she's an obnoxious stalker with a psychotic temper. They have a hard time making her an optimistic, bubbly, precocious little girl that's also a bit lovestruck and bratty sometimes. Tails often has a similar issue, I feel like they sometimes have problems writing kids.

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3 hours ago, Fire-N-Space said:

I know what you mean Sonic X and Heroes really nail in what Amy was about she was cute, funny, strong and not ashamed about tell Sonic she loved him but then the Boom TV show came and killed Amy's personality for all time now she's the "strong woman"  doesn't like cute things like she use to and hates fun, oh and her crush on Sonic is practically gone now with hints every now and then to remind the player that she loved Sonic at one point.

I can accept Heroes as underrated, but I dunno, I think Sonic X was what spearheaded the flanderized Amy that likely caused this dumbing down in the first place. She started off okay and I liked the SA1 adaptation, but then they slowly devolved into a 'lol, scary angry girl' gag, and the obnoxious unctuous aspects of her got shown off more, to the point her 'niceness' and insight was pretty much just basic acts of decency the other heroes could do in more excess. By Season Three the bitchy intimidating qualities of her were so prevalent over her positive well meaning ones that she verged on being the Angelica Pickles of the Sonic world.

The games never got quite as bad with Amy, though they do show their damage sometimes (eg. Free Riders) and I was never big on how they tried to fuse the 'psycho Amy' gags into Archie pre reboot. I miss the moody occasionally tantrum prone side of Amy, this after all did tend to fuse with her more proactive bouts, but her being RABID, terrifying and gratuitously mean I'm glad they dumbed down.

Boom at the very least did get to convey her as a legitimately well meaning character that could be rather self righteous and bad tempered when people pushed her around too much, even if they did her weird in other areas.

23 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

That's all I was really saying...

Fair enough. I have to elaborate in more excessive and unasked for detail however. :P

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I give Boom Amy bonus points simply because the narrative knows what it wants to do with her. She had a defined space, a niche, that is clear and fitting for what she was aiming for. She even avoids much of the third wheel feeling of Team Sonic + Amy, that tends to happen when you group together the big 4 under most other situations.

Its a solid step in the right direction IMO.

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50 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

I can accept Heroes as underrated, but I dunno, I think Sonic X was what spearheaded the flanderized Amy that likely caused this dumbing down in the first place. She started off okay and I liked the SA1 adaptation, but then they slowly devolved into a 'lol, scary angry girl' gag, and the obnoxious unctuous aspects of her got shown off more, to the point her 'niceness' and insight was pretty much just basic acts of decency the other heroes could do in more excess. By Season Three the bitchy intimidating qualities of her were so prevalent over her positive well meaning ones that she verged on being the Angelica Pickles of the Sonic world.

The games never got quite as bad with Amy, though they do show their damage sometimes (eg. Free Riders) and I was never big on how they tried to fuse the 'psycho Amy' gags into Archie pre reboot. I miss the moody occasionally tantrum prone side of Amy, this after all did tend to fuse with her more proactive bouts, but her being RABID, terrifying and gratuitously mean I'm glad they dumbed down.

Boom at the very least did get to convey her as a legitimately well meaning character that could be rather self righteous and bad tempered when people pushed her around too much, even if they did her weird in other areas.

Fair enough. I have to elaborate in more excessive and unasked for detail however. :P

The main problem is that some fans call Amy's feats a gag not realistic like the other characters feats and being nice isn't black and white love is a type of kindness so her crush not psycho or a gag is kindness.  Boom and IDW's Amy is the flanderized Amy, as she didn't grow in to it just happening to please haters Sonic X, SA1, SA2,  and Heroes all have her crushing on Sonic. Right now Amy is to moody like in TSR where she gets mad at Blaze for no reason.

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I will say that I agree that Amy never felt like a genuine part of the Team with the way she was used before; Sonic treated her as mostly a minor annoyance at best while he actually trusts Tails and Knuckles to get shit done. 

3 minutes ago, Fire-N-Space said:

The main problem is that some fans call Amy's feats a gag not realistic like the other characters feats and being nice isn't black and white love is a type of kindness so her crush not psycho or a gag is kindness.  Boom and IDW's Amy is the flanderized Amy, as she didn't grow in to it just happening to please haters Sonic X, SA1, SA2,  and Heroes all have her crushing on Sonic. Right now Amy is to moody like in TSR where she gets mad at Blaze for no reason.

Her contributions are still pretty minor in the grand scheme though, so it can be hard to appreciate them, especially when you're younger.

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7 minutes ago, Fire-N-Space said:

Boom and IDW's Amy is the flanderized Amy...

Don't say that...that is the opposite of true.

Flanderization: The act of taking a single (often minor) action or trait of a character within a work and exaggerating it more and more over time until it completely consumes the character.

This describes the evolution of her crush on Sonic as well as her temper/brattiness to an absolute.

Boom gives her a whole new trait, overbearing nagging, to replace the bratty temper.

IDW doesn't give her anything, that would be the opposite of Flanderization.

 

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29 minutes ago, PC the Hedgehog said:

If I had to choose between bland Amy and the Sonic-obsessed loon she was from Sonic Heroes through Unleashed, I'd choose bland Amy any day of the week.

I want to hear when she was a loon outside of X. Actually curious.

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If we're being honest, Amy was only bad in Rush, Battle, Riders 1, and Free Riders. The rest of the time she ranges from good to harmless. Lost World and onward Amy is really weird, not gonna lie, but I'm fine with IDW Amy. 

Like, X did her wrong, but she wasn't bad in a majority of her game appearances. 

Boom Amy shouldn't be used as a guidemap for normal Amy if only because the joke in Boom was that Amy liked Sonic but wouldn't admit to it.

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13 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Don't say that...that is the opposite of true.

Flanderization: The act of taking a single (often minor) action or trait of a character within a work and exaggerating it more and more over time until it completely consumes the character.

This describes the evolution of her crush on Sonic as well as her temper/brattiness to an absolute.

Boom gives her a whole new trait, overbearing nagging, to replace the bratty temper.

IDW doesn't give her anything, that would be the opposite of Flanderization.

 

Quote

Flanderization: The act of taking a single (often minor) action or trait of a character within a work and exaggerating it more and more over time until it completely consumes the character.

Didn't Lost World, Boom, Forces and IDW do just that I mean just look at Amy now where did her crush go now she's just mature. Her crush was anything but minor.

 

Quote

Boom gives her a whole new trait, overbearing nagging, to replace the bratty temper.

   Amy did that before Boom.

Quote

IDW doesn't give her anything, that would be the opposite of Flanderization.

IDW made her 95% mature.

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20 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

I will say that I agree that Amy never felt like a genuine part of the Team with the way she was used before; Sonic treated her as mostly a minor annoyance at best while he actually trusts Tails and Knuckles to get shit done. 

Her contributions are still pretty minor in the grand scheme though, so it can be hard to appreciate them, especially when you're younger.

I mean, when you're a kid, you'd probably watch Dark Knight for the action, not the themes. 

I'd argue that she had an important role in SA2 for turning Shadow to help the others, which led to his sacrifice. In SA1, she helped Gamma turn against Eggman.

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1 minute ago, Fire-N-Space said:

Didn't Lost World, Boom, Forces and IDW do just that I mean just look at Amy now where did her crush go now she's just mature.

She's more mature...because her other traits aren't there.

And I wouldn't call any version of Amy outside of Boom an overbearing nag, that's weird trait to stamp on a character you like that she clearly didn't have.

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6 minutes ago, Misfit The Hedgehog said:

I mean, when you're a kid, you'd probably watch Dark Knight for the action, not the themes. 

I'd argue that she had an important role in SA2 for turning Shadow to help the others, which led to his sacrifice. In SA1, she helped Gamma turn against Eggman.

I'm not saying she didn't contribute; but she has no discernable role on the crew. Sonic is the hero trying to stop the villains, Tails is his sidekick, and Knuckles is trying to protect the Master Emerald. Any time Amy appeared before, she was mostly just a tagalong who only wanted to be around Sonic while he was too busy doing heroics.

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2 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

And I wouldn't call any version of Amy outside of Boom an overbearing nag, that's weird trait to stamp on a character you like that she clearly didn't have.

 

Not like Amy was 24/7 nagging someone I like Daxter from the Jak games and he's a nag.   

 

Quote

She's more mature...because her other traits aren't there

Isn't that flanderization?

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1 minute ago, Fire-N-Space said:

Isn't that flanderization?

No it's not.

Nothing about her is exaggerated. If you want to call it anything, you'd call it...Character Derailment.

(When an established character becomes largely different, exhibiting behavior contrary to what has been previously shown.)

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I can't recall ever really hating Amy, personally. She is historically something of a walking jackknife among the cast, though.

I'm sure the reason she's been different is because the game's haven't really had a place for her lately, Boom did its own variable take on her that has some of its naked differences exaggerated a bit by people, and the few times we do see much of her were in situations that required her to not be as flighty or under writers who possibly didn't really know what to do with her.

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Whenever the subject of Amy’s current characterization comes up I have to wonder do people want her to be anything more than that pink girl with the hammer who has a crush on Sonic?

I’m actually ok with her in stuff like Heroes and X where her infatuation was more prominent but I do enjoy her portrayal in the IDW comics where she has it under control and has a life outside of chasing Sonic. But people are acting like the crush is completely gone when that isn’t the case. Examples like #2 where she prioritizes getting Sonic to return to the resistance, she briefly views him as if the dude was a shonen anime hero and at the end of #14 where Sonic bridal carries her as they go to investigate one of Eggman’s old bases, not only does to take joy out of it, but it wouldn’t surprise me if she was daydreaming of her wedding day. 

Amy’s crush being more subdued in favor to flesh out her other characteristics doesn’t make her bland.

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42 minutes ago, thumbs13 said:

If we're being honest, Amy was only bad in Rush, Battle, Riders 1, and Free Riders. The rest of the time she ranges from good to harmless. Lost World and onward Amy is really weird, not gonna lie, but I'm fine with IDW Amy. 

Like, X did her wrong, but she wasn't bad in a majority of her game appearances. 

Boom Amy shouldn't be used as a guidemap for normal Amy if only because the joke in Boom was that Amy liked Sonic but wouldn't admit to it.

I don't remember her being too bad in Riders 1. She at least stood up for Tails and tried to stop Eggman. Her one violent bout was well provoked by Sonic after he 'blasted her off' with Eggman without a second thought, hardly her X incarnation's 'pin drop' temper.

9 minutes ago, knuckles20 said:

Whenever the subject of Amy’s current characterization comes up I have to wonder do people want her to be anything more than that pink girl with the hammer who has a crush on Sonic?

I’m actually ok with her in stuff like Heroes and X where her infatuation was more prominent but I do enjoy her portrayal in the IDW comics where she has it under control and has a life outside of chasing Sonic. But people are acting like the crush is completely gone when that isn’t the case. Examples like #2 where she prioritizes getting Sonic to return to the e , she briefly views him as if the dude as shonen anime hero and at the end of #14 where Sonic bridal carries her as they go to investigate one of Eggman’s old bases, not only does to take joy out of it, but it wouldn’t surprise me if she was daydreaming of her wedding day. 

Amy’s crush being more subdued in favor to flesh out her other characteristics doesn’t make her bland.

I think it's more people believe they don't replace it with anything else more interesting or expand on other traits of her's. I mean Boom Amy was different in areas, but I think they did okay giving her a more variable 'shtick' while keeping some consistent character traits to play on throughout. Amy could hold her own spotlight episodes and had ambitions outside Sonic (even if some of them felt awkwardly like Lisa Simpson type activist missions).

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8 minutes ago, knuckles20 said:

Whenever the subject of Amy’s current characterization comes up I have to wonder do people want her to be anything more than that pink girl with the hammer who has a crush on Sonic?

I’m actually ok with her in stuff like Heroes and X where her infatuation was more prominent but I do enjoy her portrayal in the IDW comics where she has it under control and has a life outside of chasing Sonic. But people are acting like the crush is completely gone when that isn’t the case. Examples like #2 where she prioritizes getting Sonic to return to the e , she briefly views him as if the dude as shonen anime hero and at the end of #14 where Sonic bridal carries her as they go to investigate one of Eggman’s old bases, not only does to take joy out of it, but it wouldn’t surprise me if she was daydreaming of her wedding day. 

Amy’s crush being more subdued in favor to flesh out her other characteristics doesn’t make her bland

Uh yah dude. That's what this post is about lmao. I barely brought up the crush so I'm not sure why you did. 

She had her own story in SA1 where she hid a bird from a robot. It was shown that she lived in Station Square. She definitely been had a life outside of Sonic. Most examples people bring up are just flanderizations.

I called new Amy bland because they got rid of her personality to make her seem "mature". Tell me what Amy's done in the past three games. She just sits there on a device now.

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7 minutes ago, knuckles20 said:

Whenever the subject of Amy’s current characterization comes up I have to wonder do people want her to be anything more than that pink girl with the hammer who has a crush on Sonic?

I’m actually ok with her in stuff like Heroes and X where her infatuation was more prominent but I do enjoy her portrayal in the IDW comics where she has it under control and has a life outside of chasing Sonic. But people are acting like the crush is completely gone when that isn’t the case. Examples like #2 where she prioritizes getting Sonic to return to the e , she briefly views him as if the dude as shonen anime hero and at the end of #14 where Sonic bridal carries her as they go to investigate one of Eggman’s old bases, not only does to take joy out of it, but it wouldn’t surprise me if she was daydreaming of her wedding day. 

Amy’s crush being more subdued in favor to flesh out her other characteristics doesn’t make her bland.

This is probably the fairest take.

 

While I do agree that she's kind of bland now, I don't think it's inherently wrong to flesh out the traits about her that don't revolve around her love for Sonic. Its not something really needs to constantly know about, and  the repetition of the gags involving it is what soured people's opinions on her. 

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N

5 hours ago, Fire-N-Space said:

I know what you mean Sonic X and Heroes really nail in what Amy was about she was cute, funny, strong and not ashamed about tell Sonic she loved him but then the Boom TV show came and killed Amy's personality for all time now she's the "strong woman"  doesn't like cute things like she use to and hates fun, oh and her crush on Sonic is practically gone now with hints every now and then to remind the player that she loved Sonic at one point.

She still liked cute and feminine quite a bit, more than any other character at any rate.

Got me on hating fun as far as I remember, though.

4 hours ago, batson said:

And she rarely uses her hip attacks anymore, am I right? 🙃

Did she ever do that more than once?

4 hours ago, StaticMania said:

Yes, that's all those scenes were...her being nice to the bad guys.

She didn't say anything too meaningful to either of them, especially to Shadow, but her vague niceties did the job anyway.

The point is that she had traits that were admirable and played a part in some of the series more moving developments.

4 hours ago, Victory Defender said:

I'm not a fan any of the "new iterations" of characters. It seems like a lot of characters are made to serve one purpose only, such as a plot point for a game, and then once the game is finished the character has no need to remain in the main cast. The fan base grows attached to these one-time characters and I guess Sega caters to this and keeps them in the series. Knuckles' origin story is quite incompatible with him being in the main cast. Shadow's purpose really only shined in SA2 but was kept along due to fan interest in him. Silver is from a completely different timeline but is brought up in comics often (I don't keep up with the comics so I don't know the reasoning, but I think a time traveler should not be in the main cast). After a character fulfills their purpose Sega doesn't know how to develop that character further and just makes them bland.

Knuckles had a reason in games outside spinoffs for a while, but then he was just a part of the cast once Shadow took over.

Silver was an infrequent recurring character trying to solve a mystery relating to his future that has roots in the present. The reboot actually had him in his own time dealing with the results of dimensional rifts, but the one story he was in ended on a cliffhanger involving a portal.

4 hours ago, Victory Defender said:

Amy doesn't have an exact one-purpose role, but she is the remnant of the necessity of a female character in the Sonic continuity. As time went by though, when you compare what Amy is to the females that actually have purpose to their stories (Rouge, Blaze), she kinda falls flat.

She was kinda meant to be a female Tails as far as I can tell, but that didn't really add more than a joke character who Sonic was uncomfortable around. 

1 hour ago, Fire-N-Space said:

 Right now Amy is to moody like in TSR where she gets mad at Blaze for no reason.

Did she?

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3 minutes ago, Misfit The Hedgehog said:

Uh yah dude. That's what this post is about lmao. I barely brought up the crush so I'm not sure why you did.

I brought it up because the crush was the biggest complaint people had for Amy.

I called new Amy bland because they got rid of her personality to make her seem "mature".

Her personality isn't gone. Amy's still the same pink hedgehog who still loves Sonic, the difference is that Amy doesn't let her feelings take control over her whenever Sonic's in the same room.

Tell me what Amy's done in the past three games. She just sits there on a device now.

Considering the games had degraded anyone not named Sonic or Eggman into Sonic worshippers that can't do jack without him, that complaint isn't unique to Amy.

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