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1 minute ago, Kuzu said:

If that was the case, how come her reputation is so much worse than Sonic, Tails, or Knuckles? How involved is she actually is something I've been thinking about; in SA1, her campaign has the least to do with the main conflict outside of getting kidnapped for Sonic to rescue her. Heroes isn't really storydriven at all, but she is leading a team but it should  be noted that her levels are the easiest in the game. Outside of one or two scenes in 06, she's not really relevant there either. Same in Unleashed, and that leads to where we are in the current era. 

So overall, her contributions are kinda negligible when put under scrutiny, which is why people don't really give her any credit and just accuse her of stalking Sonic, the Flanderization of those traits didn't really help that percpetion either. 

That kinda plays into how for a while, it seemed like they were slowly building Amy up to be a heroine in her own right, even giving her a sidekick in Cream, until around 2004.

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It is a shame she never really got a 2D game with fuller story segregation like Knuckles got. The Advance games are cool, but fairly base level like 1 and 2 about this (hell in 2 she's just an extra unlockable). One that had more freedom with the different campaigns but still had some emphasis on different character stories could be something for her.

Maybe that's why Team Rose's campaign in Heroes did okay with her for the most part.

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Incidentally, this is also why Blaze is more popular; Blaze has a definable goal, and she actually drives the plots that she's involved in (well...in two games).

Amy is supposed to be a "main character", but gets treated like a side character more often than not. 

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5 minutes ago, Iko said:

Now, a more appropriate scene to highlight Amy's former (and IMO better) personality is the scene when she sneaks into Prison Island and frees Sonic from jail in SA2. She still shows the crush by joking about the marriage, but she also shows being surprisingly competent and useful, but a bit crazy too.

Sonic bluffing about why he got locked up to her is funny too. "I got myself caught on purpose so I could look for clues on that impostor!" But we know from his point of view that he got caught after running into Shadow.
Amy running into Shadow (as much as it gets mocked) helps Sonic find out where he's at. She also notices the writing on the wall way before it's brought up.
SA2 is one of the stories worth replaying as all these little details add up you won't notice the first time.

I'm starting to think the theory about being playable is true. What I mean is the fan perception that when a character is playable, they get better focus in the story. So Amy got less to do in SA2 because she was only playable in 2 player. Sonic's friends have become cheerleaders because they aren't playable anymore. Shadow got DLC story because they made him playable again. I'm not saying it's good writing because it's not, but just something going around. Of course the older games didn't do this as often outside of boss fights. Antagonists are often an exception to this besides Shadow and Rouge. I do wonder what Infinite would be like to play as sometimes.

I can see why people would think that, but Cream felt more like a gentle younger sister than replacing Amy.

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10 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Did she fight Metal Sonic?

Yeah, Teams Rose, Dark, and Chaotix fight his first phase while Team Sonic fight the second one.

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15 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

Incidentally, this is also why Blaze is more popular; Blaze has a definable goal, and she actually drives the plots that she's involved in (well...in two games).

Amy is supposed to be a "main character", but gets treated like a side character more often than not. 

I think the thing is that Amy is generally the 'everygirl' role wise, so tends to get more vibrancy from doing things by her own accord like Sonic does.

This I think is why Amy tends to suffer as a character in the Freedom Fighter/resistance format interpretations, Amy doesn't really work as a soldier relegated to a job, she tends to be best being proactive and having her own ambitions, just the games aren't too great finding ways for her to do such without being depicted as a mere annoyance.

I think this is why Heroes near about finds the happy balance with her, they don't just put her on team good guy like Sonic's lot, she wants to help out Cream and Big, but she's doing it by her own accord (this is 'big sister Amy' not 'instructed cadet Amy') and has at least the side motivation of Sonic's supposed presence in the whole matter giving an excuse to follow him. In the final climax the group she leads is as key to helping out as the other two supporting teams.

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8 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

I think the thing is that Amy is generally the 'everygirl' role wise, so tends to get more vibrancy from doing things by her own accord like Sonic does.

This I think is why Amy tends to suffer as a character in the Freedom Fighter/resistance format interpretations, Amy doesn't really work as a soldier relegated to a job, she tends to be best being proactive and having her own ambitions, just the games aren't too great finding ways for her to do such without being depicted as a mere annoyance.

And you see, that's the crux of the issue here. Let's break the roles of some of these characters.

Sonic's the hero, Tails is the smart guy sidekick, Knuckles is the muscle and foil, Amy is.....the girl?

You see how the first three sound more proactive, Amy's...isn't. 

That's why I get the logic of putting her in a Freedom Fighter/resistance setting, because it gives her a role to play...not a particularly flattering role, but it's better than simply being '"The Girl". 

15 minutes ago, DryLagoon said:

Sonic bluffing about why he got locked up to her is funny too. "I got myself caught on purpose so I could look for clues on that impostor!" But we know from his point of view that he got caught after running into Shadow.
Amy running into Shadow (as much as it gets mocked) helps Sonic find out where he's at. She also notices the writing on the wall way before it's brought up.
SA2 is one of the stories worth replaying as all these little details add up you won't notice the first time.

I'm starting to think the theory about being playable is true. What I mean is the fan perception that when a character is playable, they get better focus in the story. So Amy got less to do in SA2 because she was only playable in 2 player. Sonic's friends have become cheerleaders because they aren't playable anymore. Shadow got DLC story because they made him playable again. I'm not saying it's good writing because it's not, but just something going around. Of course the older games didn't do this as often outside of boss fights. Antagonists are often an exception to this besides Shadow and Rouge. I do wonder what Infinite would be like to play as sometimes.

I can see why people would think that, but Cream felt more like a gentle younger sister than replacing Amy.

Amy's biggest problem is that she never got to define herself outside of chasing after Sonic and because that's no longer relevant in current depictions, she's literally just left without a purpose beyond just being another generic Action Girl. 

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It'd be interesting to make a plot that sort of tongue in cheek played on Amy's more mundane role and made it more key to the main plot. I mean besides being tricked in Sonic's story, Knuckles' campaign in S3K is really just him getting his ME back from a bunch of thieving badniks, just the ME's power and what we saw happen with it last time makes that relevant to the big picture. It's a more mundane story that even seems like a petty play on Knuckles' comical temper in the intro, but it still feels like there's stakes as with any Sonic game.

That's sort of the issue with the likes of Amy and Cream, they try to do this but don't quite because they don't really hold something with huge scope stakes, maybe one life at best. Birdie was only a fraction of the big picture (and WTF did it have an emerald anyway? :P) and Advance 2's big climax with Vanilla is cool and all in how it adds some signature relevancy to Cream in her debut, but WHY does Eggman really go after her exactly? Even just something ridiculous like him having a crush on her could have worked but alone it's just a superfluous bit of meanness from Eggy after his real plot is foiled. (I suppose it does kinda tie into how, being the everygirls, they're most relatable to the animal civilians Eggman captures for robot batteries, which is kinda cool a perspective to that climax in hindsight, but again, the two aren't added enough importance to the main plot through this, not unless Vanilla was gonna be one hell of a dangerous badnik).

Even just a comical plot like Boom's where one of Amy's mundane goals ties into an absurd but somehow dangerous plan of Eggman's could do wonders for her personality and relevance wise. Hell the comical direction has been going for a while, now's the time to capitalise on it.

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Boom's setting and atmosphere means it had to rely more on characterization to move the plot along, which did wonders for Amy. But as a result, the plots themselves had to be really mundane and uninteresting. It's also ironically where Sonic X shined as well. Amy's best moments came when she was the star of a lower deck episode where the stakes weren't as high.

But the main problem is that Amy and Cream simply aren't interesting enough characters in their own right to hold a plot by themselves unless they have some outside impetus to cause them to react. They're not really adventurers like Sonic & Tails are, they don't guard a powerful object like Knuckles does, are not driven by a sense of justice or a promise like Shadow, and they're not even selfish like Rouge is, or simply trying to make bank like the Chaotix. 

That's fine if they're just meant to be supporting characters, Amy in particular is kind of expected to be the franchise's main heroine so...

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4 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

and they're not even selfish like Rouge is

I know this isn't the point, but Rouge was less selfish than thought. She shows concern for Shadow, she gives Knuckles back his shards, she even saves a turtle. Not to mention going undercover and potentially risking her life if she got caught (and the whole almost getting trapped on the exploding island thing).

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4 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

Amy in particular is kind of expected to be the franchise's main heroine so...

That's not a distinction that really matters, especially when Amy earned the title by default.  She's the main heroine technically, but she's realistically the 4th team sonic character. This franchise has never been a girl power one.

 

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10 minutes ago, thumbs13 said:

That's not a distinction that really matters, especially when Amy earned the title by default.  She's the main heroine technically, but she's realistically the 4th team sonic character. This franchise has never been a girl power one.

 

The main point is that she's treated like a main character like Tails and Knuckles are, but in practice acts more like a major supporting character is what I'm saying.

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55 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

And you see, that's the crux of the issue here. Let's break the roles of some of these characters.

Sonic's the hero, Tails is the smart guy sidekick, Knuckles is the muscle and foil, Amy is.....the girl?

You see how the first three sound more proactive, Amy's...isn't. 

That's why I get the logic of putting her in a Freedom Fighter/resistance setting, because it gives her a role to play...not a particularly flattering role, but it's better than simply being '"The Girl". 

Amy's biggest problem is that she never got to define herself outside of chasing after Sonic and because that's no longer relevant in current depictions, she's literally just left without a purpose beyond just being another generic Action Girl. 

Amy is the love interest.

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7 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

The main point is that she's treated like a main character like Tails and Knuckles are, but in practice acts more like a major supporting character is what I'm saying.

She gets the shaft the most because she's the fourth wheel in a three man band, that I get. But what I don't get is how a supporting character is supposed to "act", especially in stories where two-thirds of the cast are supporting characters.

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You're not alone in hating the new Amy, OP. I myself am not fond of the current direction with Amy's character and find it to be the single-most overrated part of this franchise right now. Oh sure, Amy isn't "psychotic obsessed with Sonic and goes rabid at the drop of a nail" anymore (which is a gross exaggeration of her previous personality, only really being true in a select few spin-offs), but now she doesn't really have a character to begin with. She's "mature", kind... And that's it. Sure, Boom and IDW did more with Amy that's technically better than the games, but I have my issues with those iterations that are best left for another time 

So, problem I'm seeing is that people assume that we dislike Amy for not being obsessed with Sonic, and that we want Amy to go back to being a Sonic-centric damsel, which couldn't be further from the truth well, for me at least, can't say for certain about all other like-minded fans. While I do want Amy to openly crush on and flirt with Sonic again, and firmly believe it to be one of Amy's defining traits (keyword on "one of")... What I really miss from "old Amy", that "current Amy" lacks, is her energy and passion 

Since the very beginning, Amy was more-or-less a "Genki Girl". She's the type of female character who could run a 4K marathon and have enough energy to run another 4K, or maybe even more. She's that girl who means well, and is genuinely a great friend, but is so eccentric and tiring that you need a break from her every now and again (which was actually stated about her and Sonic: that she overwhelms even him with her energy). Yet when you want to have fun or otherwise liven things up, she's your go-to. And above all, she doesn't let anything get in her way; when she wants something, she will get it, even if it takes her a thousand years. Amy's boundless energy is only matched by her "heart", or more accurately, her emotions; she wears her heart on her sleeves, she thinks more with her heart than her mind, and is pretty much always bursting with emotion: mainly in the form of joy, but also mostly love and sometimes rage

Yes, Amy has always been described and portrayed more as "Sonic's fangirl who wants to marry him", but the above description is mostly consistent with "old Amy", wouldn't you say? Hell, I'd say that Amy's crushing on Sonic is the logical product of that description. Or at least, that would be the ideal way of handling things; have the crush on Sonic be the most obvious showcase of Amy's energetic and passionate personality, but far from the only one. And this personality is also where Amy's consistent strengths lie; her tireless energy is what enables her to keep up with the likes of Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles despite not being all too fast, and keep on moving no matter the hardships. While her "heart" not only makes her a hard hitter but gives her a "force of will" that motivates and drives allies (which is my ideal for Amy as a leader; doing so by being headstrong and charismatic) 

Maybe I'm projecting a perception of Amy that was never really there, I'll admit. But point is, when I say "I don't like Amy as she is now, I liked her better in Adventure 1 to Unleashed", I'm not saying that I want her to be "Sonic's psychotic stalker and she's a worse character when not" (and again, that's a gross exaggeration of Amy's character that's only really the case in Sonic X, Battle, and Rush: three spin-offs that flanderized pretty much everyone). What I really mean is that "Amy used to be a plucky and lively girl defined by her emotions, but has now become a passionless bore"... And it honestly concerns me that most people see that as an improvement for Amy when this is the definition of Character Derailment. And it's only because Amy is no longer an "annoying fangirl" 😐 

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45 minutes ago, Fire-N-Space said:

Amy is the love interest.

That only counts if Sonic is actually interested in her romantically...which he isn't. And even then, it's still not a particularly active role either.

37 minutes ago, thumbs13 said:

She gets the shaft the most because she's the fourth wheel in a three man band, that I get. But what I don't get is how a supporting character is supposed to "act", especially in stories where two-thirds of the cast are supporting characters.

Well, in its most literary definition, a supporting character is a character who..well...supports the protagonist. In that regard, like you said, Amy is mostly a fourth wheel in what's generally a trio given she contributes the least out of the entire group. But given she's treated as part of Sonic's inner circle of friends like Tails and Knuckles, there's a bit of an expectation for her to contribute more like the other  two.

29 minutes ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

You're not alone in hating the new Amy, OP. I myself am not fond of the current direction with Amy's character and find it to be the single-most overrated part of this franchise right now. Oh sure, Amy isn't "psychotic obsessed with Sonic and goes rabid at the drop of a nail" anymore (which is a gross exaggeration of her previous personality, only really being true in a select few spin-offs), but now she doesn't really have a character to begin with. She's "mature", kind... And that's it. Sure, Boom and IDW did more with Amy that's technically better than the games, but I have my issues with those iterations that are best left for another time 

So, problem I'm seeing is that people assume that we dislike Amy for not being obsessed with Sonic, and that we want Amy to go back to being a Sonic-centric damsel, which couldn't be further from the truth well, for me at least, can't say for certain about all other like-minded fans. While I do want Amy to openly crush on and flirt with Sonic again, and firmly believe it to be one of Amy's defining traits (keyword on "one of")... What I really miss from "old Amy", that "current Amy" lacks, is her energy and passion 

Since the very beginning, Amy was more-or-less a "Genki Girl". She's the type of female character who could run a 4K marathon and have enough energy to run another 4K, or maybe even more. She's that girl who means well, and is genuinely a great friend, but is so eccentric and tiring that you need a break from her every now and again (which was actually stated about her and Sonic: that she overwhelms even him with her energy). Yet when you want to have fun or otherwise liven things up, she's your go-to. And above all, she doesn't let anything get in her way; when she wants something, she will get it, even if it takes her a thousand years. Amy's boundless energy is only matched by her "heart", or more accurately, her emotions; she wears her heart on her sleeves, she thinks more with her heart than her mind, and is pretty much always bursting with emotion: mainly in the form of joy, but also mostly love and sometimes rage

Yes, Amy has always been described and portrayed more as "Sonic's fangirl who wants to marry him", but the above description is mostly consistent with "old Amy", wouldn't you say? Hell, I'd say that Amy's crushing on Sonic is the logical product of that description. Or at least, that would be the ideal way of handling things; have the crush on Sonic be the most obvious showcase of Amy's energetic and passionate personality, but far from the only one. And this personality is also where Amy's consistent strengths lie; her tireless energy is what enables her to keep up with the likes of Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles despite not being all too fast, and keep on moving no matter the hardships. While her "heart" not only makes her a hard hitter but gives her a "force of will" that motivates and drives allies (which is my ideal for Amy as a leader; doing so by being headstrong and charismatic) 

Maybe I'm projecting a perception of Amy that was never really there, I'll admit. But point is, when I say "I don't like Amy as she is now, I liked her better in Adventure 1 to Unleashed", I'm not saying that I want her to be "Sonic's psychotic stalker and she's a worse character when not" (and again, that's a gross exaggeration of Amy's character that's only really the case in Sonic X, Battle, and Rush: three spin-offs that flanderized pretty much everyone). What I really mean is that "Amy used to be a plucky and lively girl defined by her emotions, but has now become a passionless bore"... And it honestly concerns me that most people see that as an improvement for Amy when this is the definition of Character Derailment. And it's only because Amy is no longer an "annoying fangirl" 😐 

Ok...what is it that she wants then that's not loving Sonic? 

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20 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

Ok...what is it that she wants then that's not loving Sonic? 

Same as Sonic really freedom, a life not about eggman, excitement, shopping and kids.

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6 minutes ago, Fire-N-Space said:

Same as Sonic really freedom, a life not about eggman, excitement, shopping and kids.

What is exciting about shopping or having kids?

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People who just want female characters to be a love interest, not fight, not develop, not interact with other characters, not do anything aside of be thirsty for the main character confuse the hell out of me.

I would like if female characters felt human or like, likable, thank you very much. Including Amy. She is young and all, and has a puppy crush on Sonic, but this can't be her entire shtick, that is just a disservice for ANY female character.

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The issue with Amy is that Sega has only ever committed the bare minimum to advancing her as a character. She's never been playable, except in large ensemble casts. She's never had a clear identity, aside from cheering Sonic from the sidelines. And then eventually years went by, Sega realized the franchise had basically no female characters, and kept insisting Amy was as important as Tails & Knuckles without ever actually investing in her character like Tails and Knuckles.

Amy just needs to receive some commitment from the creative team to give her something interesting and active to do. 

 

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23 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

Ok...what is it that she wants then that's not loving Sonic?

Adventure 1 established Amy as being bored out of her skull with mundane life; explicitly lamenting about how every day is the same old thing, and reminiscing about chasing bad guys and blowing them away. Granted, looking at the cutscene again, Sonic is a big part of the fun factor... But it's not too much of a stretch to infer that Amy wants a life of adventure. And later in her story, Amy acknowledged that Sonic's "always rescuing her" and stated she should be more independent. And then, of course, there's the ending of her Adventure 1 story, which had her declare that she's going to try her best and to make Sonic respect her; implying the the motivation to become her own hero, if only so she can better help and protect those in need like that Flicky, in addition to becoming more independent 

Alas, the games afterwards didn't really follow through with this narrative for Amy 😑 But at least there's a canon basis for "old Amy" having wants besides loving Sonic. Just unfortunate that the writers hyper-focused on the "loves Sonic" motivation, rather than having that just be one of her wants, but there you go 

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I think there could be a pretty easy fix for making Amy more interesting & offers possibilities for playability beyond just the Piko Hammer.

Make her a teen witch!  As in, she can cast spells.

It calls back to her Little Planet origin and her supposed interest in tarot and mysticism.

It's not a role filled by other characters.

Characters like Blaze & Silver use forms of magic, but they're not using "witch spell" type of magic. 

I see her as being kind of like "Kiki's Delivery Service" mixed with Aerith from FF7 (except she doesn't die).

 

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5 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

It is a shame she never really got a 2D game with fuller story segregation like Knuckles got. The Advance games are cool, but fairly base level like 1 and 2 about this (hell in 2 she's just an extra unlockable). One that had more freedom with the different campaigns but still had some emphasis on different character stories could be something for her.

Maybe that's why Team Rose's campaign in Heroes did okay with her for the most part.

 

5 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

 

I think this is why Heroes near about finds the happy balance with her, they don't just put her on team good guy like Sonic's lot, she wants to help out Cream and Big, but she's doing it by her own accord (this is 'big sister Amy' not 'instructed cadet Amy') and has at least the side motivation of Sonic's supposed presence in the whole matter giving an excuse to follow him. In the final climax the group she leads is as key to helping out as the other two supporting teams.

That is true.

Team Rose in theory is a near realization of her potential heroine status in that she's once again going into adventure to help two civilians and/or the little guy in Cream, Cheese, Big, Froggy, and Chocola. Her own priority influences the decision and then causes her to distracted when they actually do find Sonic, but when it really came down to it, she encouraged her more realist teammates to keep going despite their fears and not give up on finding their friends. Heck, you could even argue it was extra relevant to her in another example of Heroes'plot having these neat details to it in Neo Metal Sonic, a transforming version of her former kidnapper, was the true culprit because he needed Chaos' data and so kidnapped Froggy & Chocola(who is basically another Cheese, mind) because they were the next best thing with him being unavailable under normal circumstances.

It's just a little too bad that the character interaction could be a little restrictive in that game half the time, as that was her(originally everyone's) first meeting with Cream and Big himself kinda stop showing up as an involved character for over a decade.

5 hours ago, Kuzu said:

Incidentally, this is also why Blaze is more popular; Blaze has a definable goal, and she actually drives the plots that she's involved in (well...in two games).

Amy is supposed to be a "main character", but gets treated like a side character more often than not. 

An inherent part of it at least.

 

5 hours ago, DryLagoon said:

Sonic bluffing about why he got locked up to her is funny too. "I got myself caught on purpose so I could look for clues on that impostor!" But we know from his point of view that he got caught after running into Shadow.
Amy running into Shadow (as much as it gets mocked) helps Sonic find out where he's at. She also notices the writing on the wall way before it's brought up.
SA2 is one of the stories worth replaying as all these little details add up you won't notice the first time.

I'm starting to think the theory about being playable is true. What I mean is the fan perception that when a character is playable, they get better focus in the story. So Amy got less to do in SA2 because she was only playable in 2 player. Sonic's friends have become cheerleaders because they aren't playable anymore. Shadow got DLC story because they made him playable again. I'm not saying it's good writing because it's not, but just something going around. Of course the older games didn't do this as often outside of boss fights. Antagonists are often an exception to this besides Shadow and Rouge. I do wonder what Infinite would be like to play as sometimes.

I think it's also a matter of being playable also meaning the character is in peak pov and all. Hell, it's something that distinguishes the Chaotix and Babylon Rogues from the Deadly Six.

5 hours ago, DryLagoon said:


I can see why people would think that, but Cream felt more like a gentle younger sister than replacing Amy.

That is essentially what she also ended up being in reflection. She was meant to be less experienced than the other characters and would effectively learning from them as they travel together.

5 hours ago, thumbs13 said:

Yeah, Teams Rose, Dark, and Chaotix fight his first phase while Team Sonic fight the second one.

Oh, I thought you meant one on one, as well as the IDW specifically.

5 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

I think the thing is that Amy is generally the 'everygirl' role wise, so tends to get more vibrancy from doing things by her own accord like Sonic does.

This I think is why Amy tends to suffer as a character in the Freedom Fighter/resistance format interpretations, Amy doesn't really work as a soldier relegated to a job, she tends to be best being proactive and having her own ambitions, just the games aren't too great finding ways for her to do such without being depicted as a mere annoyance.

I did like how in Preboot, due to her starting out much younger per her Classic self, she had to earn her way into the Freedom Fighters over time and even trained with others like Julie Su to figure out ways how to further apply her unique powerset.

But yeah, Amy, Big, and to an extent Cream's thing is that they're more mundane compared to everyone else and so use their own lower deck motivations and gameplay divergent skills to try keeping up with them. The Freedom Fighters are more like them and so mostly blend together in a way that makes their smaller viewpoint a little less applicable. Meanwhile Sonic generally fit a little better because while he's normally an adventurer who runs off once the fighting over, that same style kinda applies and causes him to butt heads with half of them, most notably the leader herself.

6 hours ago, Kuzu said:

And you see, that's the crux of the issue here. Let's break the roles of some of these characters.

Sonic's the hero, Tails is the smart guy sidekick, Knuckles is the muscle and foil, Amy is.....the girl?

You see how the first three sound more proactive, Amy's...isn't. 

That's why I get the logic of putting her in a Freedom Fighter/resistance setting, because it gives her a role to play...not a particularly flattering role, but it's better than simply being '"The Girl". 

Amy's biggest problem is that she never got to define herself outside of chasing after Sonic and because that's no longer relevant in current depictions, she's literally just left without a purpose beyond just being another generic Action Girl. 

That is something of a common trend in action adventure series. The girl characters are often either love interests, tagalongs, or something visibly different from the main heroes. The exceptions generally try to blend this in by not having a traditional cast roster like most Digimon series or something like Ben 10, but even they sometimes run into that feel.

Amy is notable among the other females of the Sonic cast because she kinda has to feel like either a complete weirdo and/or a general mixup in order to stand out, which is why she is a tomboyish girly girl with a powerful toy hammer and sleights of other random powers to pull out of a hat. Most of the others are more distinct or consistent in comparison because they again fill another role and aren't just The Girl.

6 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

.

That's sort of the issue with the likes of Amy and Cream, they try to do this but don't quite because they don't really hold something with huge scope stakes, maybe one life at best. Birdie was only a fraction of the big picture (and WTF did it have an emerald anyway? :P) and Advance 2's big climax with Vanilla is cool and all in how it adds some signature relevancy to Cream in her debut, but WHY does Eggman really go after her exactly? Even just something ridiculous like him having a crush on her could have worked but alone it's just a superfluous bit of meanness from Eggy after his real plot is foiled. (I suppose it does kinda tie into how, being the everygirls, they're most relatable to the animal civilians Eggman captures for robot batteries, which is kinda cool a perspective to that climax in hindsight, but again, the two aren't added enough importance to the main plot through this, not unless Vanilla was gonna be one hell of a dangerous badnik).

 

They never did attempt to explain that.

Vanilla kinda feels like a wasted opportunity in general. But thinking about it, Eggman never did utilize a full blown Mobian in his inventions besides arguably Knuckles in the same game. And Vanilla is distinctively older and taller than the rest of the cast, so there could indeed have been a unique schematic for her.

5 hours ago, DryLagoon said:

I know this isn't the point, but Rouge was less selfish than thought. She shows concern for Shadow, she gives Knuckles back his shards, she even saves a turtle. Not to mention going undercover and potentially risking her life if she got caught (and the whole almost getting trapped on the exploding island thing).

The hook was still that she's a jewel entitled thief who plays everyone to get what she wants. Those moments are just signs of depth or development to her--she clearly didn't want to give the Shards back, but felt Knuckles deserved them by that point.

 

5 hours ago, Fire-N-Space said:

Amy is the love interest.

Indeed, albeit a subversive borderline parody of one.

3 hours ago, Moose the Cat said:

I think there could be a pretty easy fix for making Amy more interesting & offers possibilities for playability beyond just the Piko Hammer.

Make her a teen witch!  As in, she can cast spells.

It calls back to her Little Planet origin and her supposed interest in tarot and mysticism.

It's not a role filled by other characters.

Characters like Blaze & Silver use forms of magic, but they're not using "witch spell" type of magic. 

I see her as being kind of like "Kiki's Delivery Service" mixed with Aerith from FF7 (except she doesn't die).

 

She's not actually from Little Planet, for the record.

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6 hours ago, Kuzu said:

What is exciting about shopping or having kids?

You must be a professional at finding a small part of what someone says and twisting it. Because he never said "having kids". He said "kids" in general. Never mind the two other things you chose to straight up ignore.

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2 hours ago, Misfit The Hedgehog said:

You must be a professional at finding a small part of what someone says and twisting it. Because he never said "having kids". He said "kids" in general. Never mind the two other things you chose to straight up ignore.

You still didn't answer my question.

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