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The fact is, "old" Amy simply isn't compatible with today's climate; a bossy and bratty damsel in distress in 2020 simply would not be accepted, they literally had no choice but to reign in all of those old traits in or just risk the character being continuously unlikable to the public.

And I get that sucks really badly if you liked her old bratty personality, but it is what it is. Characters are going to be changed to adapt to the times and only carrying basic traits that define them. Comics do it, and other multimedia franchises do it. 

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7 minutes ago, batson said:

Lol, that's exactly who I was thinking about. He and I used to argue about Amy's and Knuckles' respective roles back on the Sega Forums.

Really I would say the big reason they get brought in comparison outside of bias is because most people can't tell the difference between a Sonic the Hedgehog Setting story and a Sonic the Hedgehog Character story. In the former Knuckles being the Guardian of the Master Emerald makes him like the second most important character narratively in the franchise, second only to Chip. Comically, on this scale Sonic isn't really all that important since he's just a globetrotting adventurer. In a Sonic focused story though Knuckles is like trying to fit a blue whale into your favorite T-shirt. He doesn't fit, he's too big. Amy on the other hand because she is made to interact on that level fits just fine. when you conflate setting and character narratives though Knuckles and Amy's prominence clash because they exist on different scales. That Sonic himself is small scale plays on the big scale stage makes it only more convoluted. That people conflate scale with importance and relevance though results in Ay being small scale with her antics reflecting poorly on her. It's why I'm rarely fond of large scale stories as it hurts those who interact with Sonic on the small scale, where his actual character is.

6 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

The fact is, "old" Amy simply isn't compatible with today's climate; a bossy and bratty damsel in distress in 2020 simply would not be accepted, they literally had no choice but to reign in all of those old traits in or just risk the character being continuously unlikable to the public.

And I get that sucks really badly if you liked her old bratty personality, but it is what it is. Characters are going to be changed to adapt to the times and only carrying basic traits that define them. Comics do it, and other multimedia franchises do it. 

You know though, some of are arguing for her character foundation to be restored though; a bubbly cheerful girl with endless energy and optimism who gives it her best and never gives up. You can dial back her bossiness, bratiness, and stop making her a damsel with getting rid of her foundation. The sad thing is, if her foundation wasn't removed I probably wouldn't be so angry about how she is handled at all. I just don't get why dialing back her negative traits requires digging out her foundation. Her foundation is rather beloved on Tangle, but because of Amy's crush it's hated or outright ignored on her. I don't know, that just seems crazy to me.

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5 minutes ago, Sonic Fan J said:

 

You know though, some of are arguing for her character foundation to be restored though; a bubbly cheerful girl with endless energy and optimism who gives it her best and never gives up. You can dial back her bossiness, bratiness, and stop making her a damsel with getting rid of her foundation. The sad thing is, if her foundation wasn't removed I probably wouldn't be so angry about how she is handled at all. I just don't get why dialing back her negative traits requires digging out her foundation. Her foundation is rather beloved on Tangle, but because of Amy's crush it's hated or outright ignored on her. I don't know, that just seems crazy to me.

The difference between Tangle and Amy is that the former is not defined by being a damsel or loving the main character. There's no way you can get around the fact that Amy's first impression to people was being kidnapped and loving Sonic. Tangle's debut by comparison has her fighting alongside Sonic as an equal fighter. 

First impressions matter because they're going to influence how people view your character regardless of what came afterward. 

6 minutes ago, thumbs13 said:

Amy hasn't really been a damsel in distress since SA2 unless you count something like generations, but that's another argument.

Her debut was as a Damsel...and unfortunately, it's going to stick with her unless they reboot the character in a different context. 

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12 minutes ago, Sonic Fan J said:

\

You know though, some of are arguing for her character foundation to be restored though; a bubbly cheerful girl with endless energy and optimism who gives it her best and never gives up. You can dial back her bossiness, bratiness, and stop making her a damsel with getting rid of her foundation. The sad thing is, if her foundation wasn't removed I probably wouldn't be so angry about how she is handled at all. I just don't get why dialing back her negative traits requires digging out her foundation. Her foundation is rather beloved on Tangle, but because of Amy's crush it's hated or outright ignored on her. I don't know, that just seems crazy to me.

All Amy does in IDW is support others on the ground level while Tangle is often driven more by the thrill of heroics than actually getting shit done. Amy isn't spouting feel good crap all the time but she's still doing her thing as best as she can. 

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1 minute ago, Kuzu said:

 

Her debut was as a Damsel...and unfortunately, it's going to stick with her unless they reboot the character in a different context. 

Yeah, your debut sticks with you. Unless you're knuckles. Or Silver. Or Vector. Or-

Amy being a damsel isn't distress isn't how people view her at all, and it's weird to think that. To think that you'd literally have to play Sonic CD, and then just literally never touch a single Sonic game ever again. Like, if you grew up on Sonic Adventure, or X, or any of the spinoffs, your depiction of Amy would most likely be "that chick with the hammer" (which she didn't even have in CD, by the way). 

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1 minute ago, thumbs13 said:

Yeah, your debut sticks with you. Unless you're knuckles. Or Silver. Or Vector. Or-

Amy being a damsel isn't distress isn't how people view her at all, and it's weird to think that. To think that you'd literally have to play Sonic CD, and then just literally never touch a single Sonic game ever again. Like, if you grew up on Sonic Adventure, or X, or any of the spinoffs, your depiction of Amy would most likely be "that chick with the hammer" (which she didn't even have in CD, by the way). 

All of those characters` debuts have stuck with them man. You don't even need to play the games dude; you can just literally google search the character and get all of the info there. This is the digital age. 

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2 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

The difference between Tangle and Amy is that the former is not defined by being a damsel or loving the main character. There's no way you can get around the fact that Amy's first impression to people was being kidnapped and loving Sonic. Tangle's debut by comparison has her fighting alongside Sonic as an equal fighter. 

First impressions matter because they're going to influence how people view your character regardless of what came afterward. 

True, but should being a damsel at point justify removing her foundation? That her foundation can work tells me it didn't need to be removed when other changes in focus on her character happened. And if you say people want her to be a badass, what exactly is wrong with a cheerful badass? It'd contrast her with more serious, mature badass Blaze and actually make her unique among the game cast who lacks a cheerful badass.

1 minute ago, Wraith said:

All Amy does in IDW is support others on the ground level while Tangle is often driven more by the thrill of heroics compared to actually getting shit done. Amy isn't spouting feel good crap all the time but she's still doing her thing as best as she can. 

Which is very hands off compared to how Amy used to be. That, and being energetic and optimistic her character base. Saying that she's doing her best is fine, but without that energy and optimism she feels completely different. So yeah, as I'm a fan of the character built on that foundation, naturally I'm not pleased with it being removed. It's just what it is.

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2 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

The fact is, "old" Amy simply isn't compatible with today's climate; a bossy and bratty damsel in distress in 2020 simply would not be accepted, they literally had no choice but to reign in all of those old traits in or just risk the character being continuously unlikable to the public.

And I get that sucks really badly if you liked her old bratty personality, but it is what it is. Characters are going to be changed to adapt to the times and only carrying basic traits that define them. Comics do it, and other multimedia franchises do it. 

Well, I'm fine with Amy not being bossy, bratty, and a damsel. As I said many times, I viewed "old Amy" more as a Hot Blooded Genki Action Girl, and simply want her energetic and passionate personality back. And Genki Girls sure as heck aren't against today's climate; one of the most positive changes the DuckTales reboot (which updates much of the original show to modern times) did was make Webby Vanderquack into an excitable oddball 

And actually, Webby is exactly how I'd like for Amy to be characterized: you got the overwhelming excitement, the badassery, being sweet and caring, and even the fangirlism for a certain hero (granted, Webby's is explicitly non-romantic, but still). Only difference I'd make between them is making Amy's knowledgeable expertise strictly with magic stuff, compared to Webby's all around incredible knowledge

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But yea, I think some of us just fundamentally disagree on how bland she's being written; personally I don't see much of a problem with how she's being written aside from the fact that she doesn't really do anything anymore, but that's hardly unique to just Amy. But evidently, others feel that she's undergoing "Character derailment", so clearly I don't know shit. 

I dunno, this is weird. 

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12 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

All of those characters` debuts have stuck with them man. You don't even need to play the games dude; you can just literally google search the character and get all of the info there. This is the digital age. 

Knuckles went from a goofy character who laughs at Sonic to a more reserved character.

Vector is very much not on a mission to find god anymore.

Silver went from literally just Kyle Reese from Terminator to overly aggressive jerk in Rivals and finally to his modern naive doofus portrayal. 

You're more than your three second appearance in an old game, to the point that when Adventure 1 recapped CD, ("hanging with my hero Sonic") it used different designs and wasn't even accurate to what's going on and people just took it as fact. 

Amy can get past being kidnapped in CD because characters tend to grow and evolve, and SA1 was a game that happened. 

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1 minute ago, thumbs13 said:

Knuckles went from a goofy character who laughs at Sonic to a more reserved character.

Vector is very much not on a mission to find god anymore.

Silver went from literally just Kyle Reese from Terminator to overly aggressive jerk in Rivals and finally to his modern naive doofus portrayal. 

You're more than your three second appearance in an old game, to the point that when Adventure 1 recapped CD, ("hanging with my hero Sonic") it used different designs and wasn't even accurate to what's going on and people just took it as fact. 

Amy can get past being kidnapped in CD because characters tend to grow and evolve, and SA1 was a game that happened. 

Yea, but you yourself just said that SA1 recapped it and it still showed her being kidnapped sooooo....

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Just now, Kuzu said:

Yea, but you yourself just said that SA1 recapped it and it still showed her being kidnapped sooooo....

So people can acknowledge that it happened while also not declaring it a big deal, which is basically what happened. Amy herself just considered it part of the good times. 

This whole topic is really weird to me. I don't think I've ever heard Amy be considered a damsel in distress anywhere else before, so it's weird to here someone pinpoint that and make it Amy's defining character trait that outshines all the others when it's only happened twice. 

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Am I missing something about Boom here? I haven't seen all of Season 2, but in the first half of Season 1, there was a crap ton of references to SonAmy as a couple, as well as explicit mentions that Amy does have a crush on Sonic (Hell, it was established in Episode 3 when Tails built that translator that reads thoughts, it almost spouts off Amy's crush on Sonic before she shuts it up).

Like sure, it's not mentioned in every single episode, and Amy's Boom counterpart has a lot more character traits than just being in love with Sonic, but to say she didn't have a crush on him at all, or even displayed said crush is pretty incorrect. 

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2 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Am I missing something about Boom here? I haven't seen all of Season 2, but in the first half of Season 1, there was a crap ton of references to SonAmy as a couple, as well as explicit mentions that Amy does have a crush on Sonic (Hell, it was established in Episode 3 when Tails built that translator that reads thoughts, it almost spouts off Amy's crush on Sonic before she shuts it up).

Like sure, it's not mentioned in every single episode, and Amy's Boom counterpart has a lot more character traits than just being in love with Sonic, but to say she didn't have a crush on him at all, or even displayed said crush is pretty incorrect. 

Yeah, but the idea was that it was a secret, and some people thought that if it wasn't out in the open already, it's not the same. 

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1 minute ago, thumbs13 said:

So people can acknowledge that it happened while also not declaring it a big deal, which is basically what happened. Amy herself just considered it part of the good times. 

This whole topic is really weird to me. I don't think I've ever heard Amy be considered a damsel in distress anywhere else before, so it's weird to here someone pinpoint that and make it Amy's defining character trait that outshines all the others when it's only happened twice. 

That's why I said what I said; a character's debut makes a significant difference in coloring how people view them. You're probably speaking from mainly within the fanbase, which is where you do have a point. Nobody in the fanbase is going to hold that over Amy. But to an outsider's perspective, a person who has no prior knowledge to Sonic whatsoever and just decided to google search Amy on a whim to learn about her. 

Will read about her debut as being a damsel; that's not to say she has not done anything else, but her debut is what influences the way people view her. 

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2 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Am I missing something about Boom here? I haven't seen all of Season 2, but in the first half of Season 1, there was a crap ton of references to SonAmy as a couple, as well as explicit mentions that Amy does have a crush on Sonic (Hell, it was established in Episode 3 when Tails built that translator that reads thoughts, it almost spouts off Amy's crush on Sonic before she shuts it up).

Like sure, it's not mentioned in every single episode, and Amy's Boom counterpart has a lot more character traits than just being in love with Sonic, but to say she didn't have a crush on him at all, or even displayed said crush is pretty incorrect. 

Yeah, but the idea was that it was a secret, and some people thought that if it wasn't out in the open already, it's not the same. 

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2 minutes ago, thumbs13 said:

Knuckles went from a goofy character who laughs at Sonic to a more reserved character.

Vector is very much not on a mission to find god anymore.

Silver went from literally just Kyle Reese from Terminator to overly aggressive jerk in Rivals and finally to his modern naive doofus portrayal. 

You're more than your three second appearance in an old game, to the point that when Adventure 1 recapped CD, ("hanging with my hero Sonic") it used different designs and wasn't even accurate to what's going on and people just took it as fact. 

Amy can get past being kidnapped in CD because characters tend to grow and evolve, and SA1 was a game that happened. 

I know, right? A lot of characters have grown past how they were in their debuts, yet everyone keeps thinking Amy a damsel. Sure, she's gotten a few times after CD, but 1) they are rare instances, and 2) she's hardly the only character who gets "kidnapped". Tails himself has gotten kidnapped by Eggman almost as much as Amy, plenty more if we're taking spin-off media into account, yet he doesn't hold this stigma... Acknowledging this double-standard against Amy is something I really liked from LEGO Dimensions lol 

1 minute ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Am I missing something about Boom here? I haven't seen all of Season 2, but in the first half of Season 1, there was a crap ton of references to SonAmy as a couple, as well as explicit mentions that Amy does have a crush on Sonic (Hell, it was established in Episode 3 when Tails built that translator that reads thoughts, it almost spouts off Amy's crush on Sonic before she shuts it up).

Like sure, it's not mentioned in every single episode, and Amy's Boom counterpart has a lot more character traits than just being in love with Sonic, but to say she didn't have a crush on him at all, or even displayed said crush is pretty incorrect. 

My big problem with Boom is that, while Amy's crush on Sonic is still there, it's made to be something she kept a total secret; something she feels ashamed to have known by others. And if there's one thing about Amy I feel should never be tampered with, it's her open affection for Sonic. Amy is the kind of girl who wears her heart on her sleeves, she's very blatant about all her emotions. And since she values love most of all, she especially wouldn't feel shame about gushing about what and who she loves. I can accept toning down her gushing of Sonic, since it did get excessive, but to downplay it and make it a secret...? Absolutely not

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Just now, Kuzu said:

That's why I said what I said; a character's debut makes a significant difference in coloring how people view them. You're probably speaking from mainly within the fanbase, which is where you do have a point. Nobody in the fanbase is going to hold that over Amy. But to an outsider's perspective, a person who has no prior knowledge to Sonic whatsoever and just decided to google search Amy on a whim to learn about her. 

Will read about her debut as being a damsel; that's not to say she has not done anything else, but her debut is what influences the way people view her. 

...............Okay, what?

That's not gonna happen. That's never gonna happen. I'm confident of that. At worst, people will go "man, the past was weird." Like they do when they see those old looney tunes cartoons where porky pig swears or something. Or a better example would be how Mario used to abuse animals in the 90s as jumpman. It happened, but you won't hear anybody talking about it. A game where Amy has a different design, doesn't do much, and doesn't even have her signature weapon is not what people are gonna think of when they think Amy.  I was with you before, but now you're spitting out hypotheticals based on a world where people unironically check wikis. You've lost me completely, not gonna lie.

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36 minutes ago, Fire-N-Space said:

The paper work job Amy has in IDW feels like the last type of job she would accept sitting still isn't something she'll do.

Yeah but the Resistance was a bad idea to begin with, at least how Forces did it, so...

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3 minutes ago, thumbs13 said:

...............Okay, what?

That's not gonna happen. That's never gonna happen. I'm confident of that. At worst, people will go "man, the past was weird." Like they do when they see those old looney tunes cartoons where porky pig swears or something. Or a better example would be how Mario used to abuse animals in the 90s as jumpman. It happened, but you won't hear anybody talking about it. A game where Amy has a different design, doesn't do much, and doesn't even have her signature weapon is not what people are gonna think of when they think Amy.  I was with you before, but now you're spitting out hypotheticals based on a world where people unironically check wikis. You've lost me completely, not gonna lie.

Listen, there's really nothing else I can say about this lol.

I have friends and colleagues who don't really interact with Sonic much and one of them legit asked me when I told them who Amy was and replied with "That Pink Sonic who gets kidnapped". Its certainly not a universal thing I'll admit, but just because it's happened a few times doesn't really mean people are going to forget about it. 

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Be honest, enough of the vocal/online attitude towards Adventure Era/Intended Amy roots largely in meme/Western interpretations like Sonic Shorts and Adventure's dub combined with Westerners that don't "Get" what she's supposed to be.

She wasn't meant to be some wise mature warrior maiden. Not level-headed. In many ways she was just a younger and girl Sonic (who if you recall was meant to be a punkass, not Jesus). She could lead her little posse in Heroes when she was out smashing things since they were Cream (little girl not assertive enough to say no) and Big (doesn't give a damn). That's a far cry from being a pencil pusher in some rebel army. 

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