What would you like to see in a Sonic Adventure remake?

[Kuzu]

5 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

Y'know I know it's popular to hate Pontaff but can I just say I actually prefer how they wrote Sonic and Tails as friends? They feel more like real friends who occasionally rag on each other playful and not like Hero and Sidekick.

Ok? I don't recall anything I said that counts as hating on them.

[E-122-Psi]

5 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

Ok? I don't recall anything I said that counts as hating on them.

I think he's talking about general opinion across the forum.

[Kuzu]

I mean, that's still irrelevant to what we were speaking about. There's a good chance that Pontac and Graff will return because despite how pissed off most of their critics are,  they're an easy hire.

I'd personally prefer new writers but eh.

[SBR2]

57 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

I think he's talking about general opinion across the forum.

Yeah this. Honestly in general I don't really get the hatred they receive and seeing a mention of how Sonic and Tails are written just got me thinking about how they tend to write them.

[Kuzu]

I personally don't care as much as other people do, but I generally get the feeling they don't really understand the two characters all that well. How they write Sonic & Tails tends to be very different from how they write Eggman, who they have admitted they like writing for

[knuckles20]

What I'd like to see in a SA remake? I shouldn't have to say this but to be on the safe side, full 3D gameplay. 

Also rework the cutscenes with better animation and improved dialogue.

[SBR2]

1 hour ago, Kuzu said:

I personally don't care as much as other people do, but I generally get the feeling they don't really understand the two characters all that well. How they write Sonic & Tails tends to be very different from how they write Eggman, who they have admitted they like writing for

Fair enough. Personally I don't have a problem with how they do Sonic if only because I kinda like Sonic being a bit cocky but still having his good nature. Honestly I know this isn't a popular opinion but Sonic and Tails at least feel more like characters under their pen then they ever did before they came along.

[Red Hot Jack]

2 hours ago, SBR2 said:

Yeah this. Honestly in general I don't really get the hatred they receive and seeing a mention of how Sonic and Tails are written just got me thinking about how they tend to write them.

I never liked them, I'm honest. They don't have really a clue about who Sonic is, they don't get him, they barely made any research, they got the job (at least Pontac, he confirmed) because a cousin worked at SEGA. I'm not saying we should justify the hate, I got nothing against them, just... their writing in Sonic is pretty bad. 

They had more freedom in Colors and Lost World, the results were a game filled with admitedly nice jokes, but that was about it? And a game with self-rebooting cutscenes that led nowhere, Lost World's plot in particular didn't make much sense... of anything. I also remember the writing in Shattered Crystal being really... unfunny and dumb jokes.

They don't get Sonic, he is more of an idiot and a dork rather than a cocky character, however I could say that was the general direction for him, and they don't get Tails, who is either an arrogant smartass, a bitchy wife or a scarecrow with tech exposition.

They also don't get Shadow, and that's SEGA in general apparently.

But this isn't a thread about Pontaff, so why are why discussing that?

[batson]

Even though (or perhapes because) Sonic Adventure is my favorite 3D Sonic game, I don't think I would like to see it being remade. I think it's good as it is (even though the voice acting is kinda awkward).

[Kuzu]

14 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

Fair enough. Personally I don't have a problem with how they do Sonic if only because I kinda like Sonic being a bit cocky but still having his good nature. Honestly I know this isn't a popular opinion but Sonic and Tails at least feel more like characters under their pen then they ever did before they came along.

I feel like they read the general description that Sonic is "cocky" and just left it there. I don't mind Sonic being cocky, but after Colors it started to feel like that was his only trait. It just made him a lot less interesting to watch in addition to only ever having Tails to bounce off of. Tails is...kind of stuck up? Which I don't have a problem with by itself, but we already had Sonic as the cocky and arrogant one, so what's the point of Tails having that personality type as well?

I'll admit, I do like how they're written as a pair of informal bros as opposed to the at times stiff formality their usual dynamic has, but it's also come at the sacrifice of their interesting traits imo. 

But I digress, this isn't a Pontac or Warren hate topic. 

[E-122-Psi]

I think the contrast in writing style wouldn't work in SA1 anyway. Pontac and Griff's stuff is very tongue-in-cheek and meta heavy, while SA1 is very earnest and in-universe in spite of some similar cheesiness.

I do think SOME ideas they had worked well in their games, and if translated properly could work in SA1 at times. Dynamics were often a key one. Eggman felt kind of isolated in SA1 for example, neither Chaos or the E-100 drones really interacted with him two-way, Orbot and Cubot were made to rectify that. Same for Sonic and Tails' more developed friendship in the later games, which feels a bit too 'take our word for it' in the Adventure games even considering the differences in Eastern and Western depictions. This is something that is bound to happen as the franchise continues anyway, again the Crash remakes added bits of characterisation based on later titles, even the equally wacky Radical ones.

I also feel like Lost Worlds at least TRIED to capitalise on flawed moments more than SA1 did for them. They don't really make a deal out of Sonic and Tails' cockiness costing them their first emerald for example, which could have worked in setting some doubt and insecurities into Tails for his arc, as well as just establishing Sonic's trademark cockiness being a flaw (in fact I think Lost Worlds is the first time in the actual games where he's called out for making a blunder based on his overconfidence).

[Kuzu]

Yea, I don't think their writing style really befits the type of story that SA1 is; their attempts at drama and pathos tend to fall really flat. And that's not to say SA1 is a beacon of writing quality or anything because there are plenty of flaws there, but I do feel it maintains a consistent tone in spots where it's appropriate to let certain moments hit better. 

 

To move things onto to gameplay, I really would like for them to their hand at level design similar to the beta level of Windy Valley; we've yet to explore explorative design like that.

[SBR2]

3 hours ago, Kuzu said:

I feel like they read the general description that Sonic is "cocky" and just left it there. I don't mind Sonic being cocky, but after Colors it started to feel like that was his only trait. 

I don't really see it that way. In Colors he gets clearly angry when he sees how far Eggman has gone in draining the Wisps, he barely has any dialogue in Generations that isn't about the situation and saving everyone, Lost World (regardless of how well it was done) is all about him feeling upset about how badly he screwed up and Forces outside of quips at the villains he comes across as all business. 

Yeah he's cockier and makes more jokes but I will never understand why people think that's all Pontaff's Sonic has going for him.

As for Tails I guess I can sort of see what you're getting at but I don't really mind it. I think it's kinda fun seeing him able to sass Sonic.

[Sonictrainer]

I've had this idea for awhile, where characters that are together during parts of the story form a "Tag Team".

For example, after Sonic completes Emerald Coast for the first time, players are immediately able to switch between Sonic & Tails (or play as both together). From that point on, you can play any Action Stage, Sub Game, Rival Battle, or Boss Battle as Sonic or Tails without having to pause, Quit the Game, Going to the Main Menu, and going to the character select. In fact, you can replay Emerald Coast as Tails, if you wanted to. It would also take away some of the receptiveness of having to fight certain Bosses multiple times.

This is similar to how in Sonic Rush Adventure, once you unlock Blaze, you can continue on without having to replay previous Levels as Blaze.

The only downside to this idea is that only Sonic, Tails, & Amy would be able to do this, with the exception of Chaos 4 (where players could choose to fight it as Sonic, Tails, & Knuckles) and Chaos 6 (where players could choose to fight it as Big, Sonic, or Knuckles).

 

[E-122-Psi]

I wouldn't mind if they added a multiplayer mode or even just upgraded the Sonic and Tails mode a little more.

Like maybe Tails can carry Sonic and the camera compromises a little so Tails can stay on the screen better.

[Wittymations]

I want Big to be this speedy awesome mother fucker swinging tree to tree, body slamming on enemies, yeeting heavy rocks, frigging blasting through the stage until he reaches the goal ring.

 

Sits down and quietly fishes. Grade pops up as he plays a catching animation and grabs froggy

[Shaun Shikeishuu]

I'd like to see the scrapped level themes make it in or at least have Sand Hill become a full stage. Maybe give characters more overall action stage, I mean Amy only had 3. 

[E-122-Psi]

2 hours ago, Shaun Shikeishuu said:

I'd like to see the scrapped level themes make it in or at least have Sand Hill become a full stage. Maybe give characters more overall action stage, I mean Amy only had 3. 

I do wonder how some characters could really have their stories extended though. I mean Knuckles would likely be the easiest, just have him search for more emerald shards. Froggy can just wander a few more stages for Big to find, and Gamma I guess can be working behind the scenes during the earlier parts of the story.

Tails is pretty much restricted to Sonic's story for the large part though (even with the Sand Hill idea, he already plays that), and I'm not exactly sure how Amy's role could be expanded, even as it is, her final stage was kind of padding.

3 hours ago, Wittymations said:

I want Big to be this speedy awesome mother fucker swinging tree to tree, body slamming on enemies, yeeting heavy rocks, frigging blasting through the stage until he reaches the goal ring.

 

Sits down and quietly fishes. Grade pops up as he plays a catching animation and grabs froggy

Truth be told I think the whole fishing transition would be more amusing if it was straight after some genuinely eventful gameplay.

I'd keep Big's more chill gameplay flow though, that was the point of his campaign, but give the players some fun amount of power to fool around with for a while. Make him still slower but not tediously slow (like Gamma's walking speed for example) and give him a longer but still laid back and fleeting platforming segment with more to do.

I agree on adding more rocks and structures to throw though, giving his fishing lure a better attack radius (and maybe an upgrade into the flaming one he has in Heroes) and maybe his body slam move just so he has some signature fun-to-spam attack.

I think something that actually got in the way of Big's 'chill out' role within the game is that the lack of power and control with his gimmicks add a bit too much frustration to it. The fishing needs better physics and the controls to be easier to understand (even if it's just something like taking out the special 'down to hook' action that is only for Froggy SO OF COURSE NO ONE IS GONNA FIGURE IT OUT SO BFGDGSG GSGGS-). Meanwhile Big needs to be less nerfed as a playable character, his role still requires trekking and avoiding enemies after all so he needs to be equipped to competently handle both of those in a fun way, even if it's not 'intense' like the others.

[Wittymations]

2 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

I'd keep Big's more chill gameplay flow though, that was the point of his campaign, but give the players some fun amount of power to fool around with for a while. Make him still slower but not tediously slow (like Gamma's walking speed for example) and give him a longer but still laid back and fleeting platforming segment with more to do.

Personally, I agree with wanting to keep Big's Netfish and Chill mode. Really, I do. And your suggestions, I agree more or less.

Thing is, the biggest complaint I've noticed about the adventure series is its wildly different gameplay, where only Sonic and Tails (occasionally Knuckles) is considered fun in SA1, and only Sonic/Shadow in SA2. That said, I have seen more leniency for Gamma and Eggman but not SA2 Tails, oddly.

I think the best way to address that is altering the levels to fit closer to Sonic. Amy's would be the easiest, a bit faster and possibly remove Zero as an obstacle and more of a set piece.

Knuckles would probably need to pretty much change outright. Searching for the shards now is pretty much "get to the end of the level." He's still searching, it's just at the end of the level. But turn his arena stages to more Sonic like levels but take advantage of his ability to climb and glide.

Gamma, i dunno. He seems mostly okay. Maybe too slow?

Big's considered the poster boy of "alternate gameplay bad" and would need to change everything about him. Heroes shows he can roll around at the speed of sound, go with it.

That said, I'm personally a fan of alternate gameplay. But I get why many dislike the uniform being broke. Though I can see doing this would break an identity.

[E-122-Psi]

I guess that's the problem, we want the game's potential to be fully realised, but of course that means keeping a lot of its original premise to begin with, otherwise it's not that game's potential anymore. You may as well make a new game with the same cast (not that I'd be against the cast besides the obviously dead Gamma getting playable roles in a new game).

I think the reason Gamma is given more leniency for not being fast for example is because he still has that sort of flexible pace about him, he doesn't feel as clunky and un-Sonic-like like the mechs do. You're meant to trek as him at a slower more careful pace but you still have the option of going reasonably fast, just not Sonic speed. I think they should have maintained that for Big and Amy to some degree, who feel a lot more like trying to run with a ball and chain attached to their leg.

Backporting elements from SA2 and Heroes gives some leniency (no worse than doing the same with the spindash and even drop dash in Sonic 1 ports) but of course Heroes had a different style and physics from SA1 so you can't do that TOO much, just in subtle areas where it complements the gameplay style. It helps a lot of SA1's abilities are optional upgrades though. Adding one that gives you instant light dash for Sonic or a speed and attack boost for Amy and Big for example would be a good compromise between those who want refinements or those who don't want the original flow compromised too much.

[Wraith]

I'm of the unpopular opinion that treasure hunting is actually good, in concept. The classic games offer a lot of avenues for exploration as well as linear action. Sonic levels focusing on the former and Knuckles focusing on the latter is a good compromise. 

 It needs to be overhauled pretty severely so navigating isn't so mindless. Nerfing Knuckles's glide and climb so he can't cross every room in the game without touching the ground is a good start but they still need to take advantage of that unique kit somehow, otherwise there's not really a point in it being a Knuckles level. It's been suggested that he can only climb certain walls and I think that might be the easiest solution, but context sensitive action in these games have been historically kind of lame so I'm not too interested in that myself.  He needs to be more involved with the physics engine somehow. I wouldn't mind if he took Ray's sweeping glide but that would be a pretty big betrayal in how he's supposed to function. I'm straight up not sure if Knuckles's kit works in 3D at this point but there's no reason not to at least try. 

I didn't mind the random spawn points in the adventure games but they caused too many issues. Set spawn points for the emeralds that the player can approach in any order would be a good compromise between linearity and openness. The player can replay the level to find the fastest route to grab all 3 without slowing down in the same way that I go out of my way to get as many chaos emeralds as early as possible in Mania.  

[Kuzu]

It's not so much the alternate gameplay themselves, but how they're paced throughout the game, usually for the sake of padding. In Sonic 3, you can just play as Sonic, get all of the emeralds and call it a day. You could play as Knuckles if choose to, but it's not a requirement, it's simply seeing another side of the story.

In Sonic Adventure, while you could just play Sonic's story and leave it at that, you're also missing out on tons of context for the story as a result if you don't play the other stories. Knuckles` campaign is different enough to justify it's own playthrough, as is Gamma's and that's likely a significant reason those styles were kept for the sequel.  

So ideally, in a remake, Tails, Amy, and Big would need the biggest overhauls; Tails' playthrough is seen as somewhat redundant since you're mostly retreading things you did as Sonic, and his abilities just have him outright skip the level that Sonic would have to interact with. Amy's playthrough is much slower paced and also incredibly short (literally three levels...), while Big is pretty self-explanatory.

If the player needs to play as all six characters to get the full story, then they should all feel different yet rewarding to warrant a different playthrough and I feel those three, being the weakest styles, need the biggest overhauls. 

[E-122-Psi]

I tend to find the bigger problem with Knuckles' treasure hunting is less with the concept and physics, it's actually a lot of fun gliding around in Knuckles' areas most of the time, the freedom is rather satisfying and mirrors that Sonic Utopia-esque feel, especially compared to how gratuitously cramped and overelaborate the SA2 ones are.

The main problem is that the emerald locations are nearly always a joke. There's only about four or five same hiding places in each level and usually they are ridiculously out open. Again I appreciate they aren't as intricate and tediously secured through puzzles like they are in some parts of SA2, but it would be better to try and encourage the player to search through a larger amount of the level. It's fine being able to collect the emeralds in such a brisk pace, but it feels like you should only be able to once you've mastered the gameplay.

I think this is something that lets down the Adventure Fields as well, outside walking from cutscene to cutscene, there isn't actually a lot to do in them. SADX had the right idea on paper with adding some missions, but the problem is you only unlock them AFTER you beat the game, and most of the actual missions were rather bland and fan-mod-ish puzzles that didn't really take advantage of the sandbox roaming. Even just some simple collectathon missions would have been a fun side mission.

[Wraith]

Redoing the hubs from scratch would be fine with me. Station Square is a city section in a platformer that takes no advantage of vertical level design or interactivity. Sonic should be swinging off poles and and jumping off of rooftops. There should be lots of people to meet and secrets to find. As it stands now it's more like a series of connected parking lots with the occasional interesting side room here and there. 

The missions being thrown out entirely and replaced with side missions that invite you to engage with the hub and NPCs would be a better fit imo.

[Red Hot Jack]

I insist we are not getting an Adventure Remake, literal one and 1:1 recreation. It takes a lot of effort, high risk, a lot of budget (11 zones!), and a lot in Sonic has changed since that game, besides, I want a new game.

I think... this is both a prediction and a wish, that they are gonna give it the Mania treatment and do... wait for it... Sonic Adventure Remix (fun fact: it was the name of a fangame back in 2006). Because of all the reasons I listed. I know this is a wish thread so I'm keeping it oriented to my wishes, plus what I think they might do.

- New Story that involves old characters, bringing back Tikal and Chaos, maybe time travel again? But with a new twist, probably.

- 4 brand new zones, 4 brought back from the 2 Adventure games, I'd like to see back Emerald Coast, Ice Cap, Pyramid Cave and Final Rush. 

- Playable Episodes:

Sonic,

Knuckles

Shadow

Avatar

- Gameplay styles: Sonic and Knuckles are basically their classic gameplay in 3D, or something close to that, Sonic is fast exploration and platformer, same for Knuckles but with his own skills, treasure hunting is also there but rather than take the whole gameplay, it's restricted to sections inside stages, the rest focuses on fighting badniks, climbing, gliding and digging. Shadow would basically be Sonic's Hard Mode, so almost a Sonic skin but with some new skills maybe? Offering a sort of Dark story in the feel of SA2, the Avatar... shoots with his gadgets and weapons, so it would fit as the "mech shooting" a la Gamma/Eggman replacement.

- Bosses: The usual antagonists back for more fights, Eggman in new robots, Metal Sonic with some twists, new transformations for Chaos, new mechs for Zavok, perhaps Infinite is they want to bring him back.

- Additional moves via optional upgrades, could be for example, Boost (Sonic) - which doesn't take the whole gameplay anymore - , Shovel Claw (Knuckles), Chaos Boost (Shadow), more Wispons (Avatar), the hook (Avatar), more powerful punches to break tougher blocks (Knuckles), bounce (Sonic).

- A single Adventure Field Hubworld

- Minigames:

Tails - Tornado shooting game

Amy - Hitting mole-like robots with her hammer

Big - Fishing minigame

Chao Garden, without Hero/Dark states but with tons of Chao variations and evolutions, shapes and differences

Other features:

- Multiplayer Races

- Time Attack challenges

- Unlockables: Super Sonic transformation, Classic Sonic (Sonic's stages), Tikal (Knuckles's stages), Metal Sonic (Shadow's stages) and/or for multiplayer

 

I know it's a lot to ask for, but so is a 1:1 style Adventure Remake, plus as a friend suggested, the poll I keep posting:

 

It's from 2018, it's possible they might want to re-introduce all those features for the next game, so expect Multiplayer, Chao Garden, Avatar (or just customized Sonic, Knuckles, etc. ?)