Who is your least favorite Sonic character?

[batson]

1 hour ago, thumbs13 said:

That doesn't really work. The games in which he's portrayed as worse than Eggman are the games in which he's not Eggman's dimensional counterpart. In Rush and the sequel, he basically had the same role as Classic Eggman in Generations.

It doesn't matter whether hes portrayed as Eggman's dimensional counterpart or not. He still belongs to the evil twin archetype, much like how Metal Sonic and Shadow are Sonic's evil twins. And being a villain and having an evil twin makes you seem like a pretty fucking lame villain.

[thumbs13]

3 minutes ago, batson said:

It doesn't matter whether hes portrayed as Eggman's dimensional counterpart or not. He still belongs to the evil twin archetype, much like how Metal Sonic and Shadow are Sonic's evil twins. And being a villain and having an evil twin makes you seem like a pretty fucking lame villain.

...Not really? I didn't watch that one genderswapped episode of Adventure Time and go "Man, the Ice Queen makes Ice King look really lame." I understand how AU versions of characters usually work. Eggman Nega could have had a more unique design, I agree, but he was legit just "Eggman, but for blaze to fight." That doesn't make Eggman look lame, it was just a realization that you can't have one character fight everybody at the same time. (Something that heroes didn't really understand).

[Diogenes]

10 minutes ago, thumbs13 said:

it was just a realization that you can't have one character fight everybody at the same time. (Something that heroes didn't really understand).

I don't think anyone would've really minded that, though.

[Moose the Cat]

I'm going to interpret "least favorite" as being who is least among my favorites. As opposed to who I think the worst/most offensive Sonic character is, which is a different answer. My least-favorite-favorite is Tails, who is a character I love in a lot of ways, but often dislike for being too baby-ish, or too gee-whiz-boy-genius, or too fixated/reactionary to Sonic. I like his design a lot, and I liked his character best in Sonic Boom.

I thought — for an alternate version, or a fanfic — Sonic and Tails would both be better if their personality dynamic was swapped, with all other traits being unchanged.

Sonic is the younger (ie, Sonic 2020 Movie) more exuberant one. He's throwing himself head-first into danger at crazy speeds because he's super confident and reckless. 

Tails is the older Peppy Hare/Obi Wan mentor, with a slightly grizzled, rude attitude and always fixing his planes and good machines. "Oh, shut up, Sonic" is something he would say, frequently. He's less confident in his physical abilities overall (though he learned recently from Sonic how to fly by twisting his tails together, proving an old fox can learn new tricks) and knows Sonic is a better athlete. But Tails has always taken pride in his machines, anyway. He was born to be a fix-it flying-fox freedom-fighter! Tails advises Sonic to take it slow and follow him, but Sonic never listens and thinks Tails just needs to learn to keep up. 

This could kiiiinda work for a head-canon if you are Classic Only, not taking manuals or anything else into account but what's on screen in 23KM. 

Tails is like a younger Dr. Light to Sonic's Rock. Heck, you could say Tails was responsible for all of the monitor boxes (Eggman's bots have put viruses in some of them) and special zone warp posts, and even the end-act sign posts!  It's like Forrest Gump - that's how Tails tells Sonic to STOP HERE. This is where we'll find a Warp Ring to get a Chaos Emerald with your power.

Tails is using/coordinating/guiding Sonic to find the Emeralds to defeat Eggman. Which he kinda already is doing, as the gee-whiz-kid. But it's a more fun dynamic if Tails is the older eccentric mechanic, struggling to keep up with the blue whipper-snapper. 

 

Different but kinda cool I think

[E-122-Psi]

The general problem is that whenever they have Tails act more mature they tend to put it on the same field as making him duller. Just this really passive exposition spouter, which kinda puts me off 'older' versions of Tails.

Plus I grew up on the adorable premise he had in cartoons like AoSth, so I hold the 'younger brother' dynamic close to my heart. Maybe this is why I see so many of the 3D-era takes on Tails as boring, because that element tends to be downplayed. Boom Tails was fun though.

[Kuzu]

Well, to use your logic, if Sonic is Bugs Bunny and Knuckles is Daffy Duck, then I guess that makes Tails the Porky Pig of the group. The passive everyman to his more abrasive an exuberant co-stars. So unfortunately, that means Tails isn't really the type who stands out especially when put next to Sonic. That said, that's perfectly in-character for him as well. 

[E-122-Psi]

2 hours ago, Kuzu said:

Well, to use your logic, if Sonic is Bugs Bunny and Knuckles is Daffy Duck, then I guess that makes Tails the Porky Pig of the group. The passive everyman to his more abrasive an exuberant co-stars. So unfortunately, that means Tails isn't really the type who stands out especially when put next to Sonic. That said, that's perfectly in-character for him as well. 

I think it depends because generally what makes Porky fun is his funny reactions to being hassled by other characters like Daffy. A problem with some of the more mature takes on Tails is in fact his poor chemistries, in particular his downgraded relationship with Sonic, not to mention the downplaying of any high emotions most of the time besides lethargic moments of fear (compared to Porky who is maybe not interesting when left alone but is hilariously vicious or high strung when riled up).

Actually maybe this is why Boom Tails sticks out. Way more stuff is at his expense in that take and his reactions are often priceless. SA1's opening was about it for even so much as one of his inventions going wrong in earlier 3D takes, and even that case is remembered more for how laughably bad it was voiced and animated.

[Kuzu]

1 hour ago, E-122-Psi said:

I think it depends because generally what makes Porky fun is his funny reactions to being hassled by other characters like Daffy. A problem with some of the more mature takes on Tails is in fact his poor chemistries, in particular his downgraded relationship with Sonic, not to mention the downplaying of any high emotions most of the time besides lethargic moments of fear (compared to Porky who is maybe not interesting when left alone but is hilariously vicious or high strung when riled up).

Actually maybe this is why Boom Tails sticks out. Way more stuff is at his expense in that take and his reactions are often priceless. SA1's opening was about it for even so much as one of his inventions going wrong in earlier 3D takes, and even that case is remembered more for how laughably bad it was voiced and animated.

I wouldn't call his relationship downgraded at all, but to each their own. I suppose seeing how close they are in AOSTH and then transitioning to a medium where they aren't as close is jarring.

I grew up on the games, so this is pretty much what I expect.

[GummiDreams]

Amy rose with her current Minnie Mouse voice.

[Moose the Cat]

On 5/4/2020 at 10:09 PM, Kuzu said:

I wouldn't call his relationship downgraded at all, but to each their own. I suppose seeing how close they are in AOSTH and then transitioning to a medium where they aren't as close is jarring.

I grew up on the games, so this is pretty much what I expect.

I don't think Sonic maps very well to Looney Tunes aside from maybe Sonic & Knuckles as Bugs & Daffy... either way, Tails wouldn't be Porky in that comparison. Porky came before any of them, and was always more of Daffy's sidekick and somewhat of a rival to Bugs and then just generally friendly toward him. So even just in the sense of Tails being passive it's not quite a fit. 

It's more like Sonic & Knuckles = Bugs & Daffy, and Tails & Amy = Buster Bunny & Elmira Fudd from Tiny Toons <--- That'd be a more accurate parallel to the dynamic. 

Sonic's cast is clearer / works better comparing it to Dragon Ball or One Piece or other shonen. The story is built on that skeleton, with the outward looking appearance being closer to Looney Tunes.

Although I can't deny that Eggman does look like he could be the child of Yosemite Sam + Elmer Fudd.

[Scritch the Cat]

Cream, originally.  I don’t want to make this out to be a stronger dislike than it actually is, as most games including her have too little plot and characterization to affect much, but the very concept behind her leads to everything I have problems with, and they’re not just narrative.  The concept of a playable Sonic character who is too sissy to fight, this deferring that task to a minion, led to a gameplay mechanic that makes irrelevant the normal way of playing Sonic games, and that wouldn’t necessarily be so bad, except it’s so overpowered.  Originally, Sonic games had jumping attacking combined into one button, which seems like it may be simplistic but actually lends a lot of nuance when factoring in level design.  But to give a flawless homing projectile attack to a character, and bind it to a whole new button, REALLY IS too simplistic.  I hate it because it makes the old meat of Sonic obsolete, and the Boost presents a similar problem.

Sonic Battle cemented my ire at the character.  Wasting a fighting hand character slot on a pacifist character when the Chaotix were revived was a dumb move on its own, and that her moveset just consisted of Cheese doing various things made it really dull, but that the game had text-heavy plot made her personality truly annoying.  Her refusal to fight was the cause of problems, and even when she’s supposed to get over that, Cheese is still who’s doing all the work, so it’s fake development.

But more recently, the Wisps.  It’s odd to say they’re my least favorite character since they’re barely characters at all, but knowing they were created just so characters other than Sonic could be removed from a playable role is enough to get me disdain.

[DabigRG]

On 5/3/2020 at 8:55 PM, Iko said:

 

Amy: I'm not a fan of all the characters who are based on someone else instead of being fully original and then get the main-character treatment; I also don't like when fictional stories have female characters who are meant to be equivalent of the (male) main character but female. From Minnie Mouse to Ms Pac-Man, to wathever you can think of. It's an incredibly boring stereotype and I'm not interested in that. Amy is a bit more than just "female Sonic", she recieved some more development through the years and several games (and her modern design along with the hammer helped to differentiate her a bit more), but I still see her as a female counterpart to Sonic who exists just to be "the female" of the group. She has changed personality several times through the franchise's history, and the one she currently has is IMO pretty bland, though she gets shoehorned a lot in main roles. I don't hate her, but I would prefer if she was used less and became more side character than, I mean, the unofficial leader of the resistance. Gameplay-wise, I like her, I liked her in Advance 1 and partially in Sonic Adventure too (but there she was slower and the puzzle based levels didn't help).

Shadow: Sonic but dark and edgy; I liked him in SA2 because he was supposed to be a one time thing (you know, like Shadow Mario in Super Mario Sunshine). When they revived him (nullifying the epicness of his sacrirfice at the end of SA2) and rewritten his backstory introducing alien and even more government stuff, they IMO completely ruined the character and the purpose he was created for. Now he's meet a similar fate as Amy: he's shoehorned in most Sonic media because he looks cool, but his personality became bland and he's just there for the sake of it. He really jumped from one of my favorite characters to one of my least favorites. Gameplay-wise, he has some potential to be kinda unique, but he's always just a Sonic clone... I know he's supposed to be "Dark Sonic", but he has chaos powers and those hover shoes that can be used for creative gameplay ideas... they just don't do it.

Metal Sonic: I never liked this model of "Mecha Sonic" much, I always prefered the one from Sonic & Knuckles as it looked more like a deadly machine. Anyway, Mecha Sonic, Silver Sonic, Mecha Knuckles and so on, I prefered when Eggman created one different "Sonic" model in each new game, it was interesting to see what Eggman came out with each time. Now that they are sticking with Metal Sonic, it's just boring. Also he's another of those characters, "Sonic but evil robot", I already talked about that. You know what, call me crazy but I'd much prefer if Metal Sonic's role was completely replaced by Orbot & Cubot. Yes, Orbot & Cubot... they have simple and geometrical shapes, they can assemble to bigger mechanical bodies and become minibosses and bosses just like Eggman with the Egg-Mobile. Use them and be creative, SEGA.

I'm sensing a pattern.

 

On 5/3/2020 at 8:55 PM, Iko said:

 

Vanilla & Chocola: This is probably the first time I mention this online, I never complain about this because they rarely get a role nowadays. I don't dislike them, though, while it makes sense for them to show up occasionally (at least Vanilla, when Cream is involved), I still think that's totally unnecessary to have them around. Vanilla is Cream's mother, ok... it's a nice little trivia to know, but her story was in Sonic Advance 2, it ended in that game, Sonic saved her, now there's absolutely no reason to have her around, because she has no fighting skills and usually having her around means damsel in distress cliche. Chocola is even more unnecessary because it's just Cheese 2.0. Having Vanilla around in games every time Cream is involved is like having the GUN president around every time Shadow appears because he works for him. Maybe if a game has hub worlds with NPCs it would be ok to have her at her home if it's part of the game's world, but that's it, I prefer her and chocola not to be involved in the main plot of a game (unlike Sonic Heroes); if anything give Gemerl more screen time instead.

It's not like either show up much anyway. Or are focal characters.

On 5/3/2020 at 8:55 PM, Iko said:

But in some cases I properly dislike some. Examples:

Eggman Nega: No need to have an Eggman recolor, especially when he occasionally comes with a Metal Sonic recolor too. Totally pointless character that IMO should not exist. The Blaze's dimension equivalent could have been Captain Whisker alone without having to say he's been built by an Eggman recolor. Say he's been built by a pirate scientist hundreds years ago and if they have to show the scientist's design by flashback, make him look nothing like Eggman.

Classic Sonic as a stand alone character: just no, there's one Sonic.

I'm convinced the reason he's specifically Eggman Nega is because they wanted to reuse voice clips for the boss fights and it's not like they would focus on him much anyway at the time.

On 5/4/2020 at 5:24 AM, batson said:

Oh yes, Eggman Nega. I forgot about him. But yeah, that is one character that should never have been created. My biggest gripe with him is that he cheapens Eggman as a villain. I mean think about it: Eggman Nega is Eggman's evil twin. Eggman, a villain, has an evil twin. What does that say about Eggman?

That he's not a complete monster?

On 5/4/2020 at 3:15 PM, Big Panda said:

One’s a doting father with the mannerisms of Nigel Thornberry, the other is a batshit tyrant who wanted to commit mass murder and push his daughter into arranged marriages.

Hey, you never know with some people 

Also, mass murder, wtf

[batson]

5 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

That he's not a complete monster?

 

That he's a lame ass villain.

[DabigRG]

On 5/5/2020 at 1:09 AM, Kuzu said:

I wouldn't call his relationship downgraded at all, but to each their own. I suppose seeing how close they are in AOSTH and then transitioning to a medium where they aren't as close is jarring.

I grew up on the games, so this is pretty much what I expect.

I hate to say it, but with little to it?

 

3 hours ago, GummiDreams said:

Amy rose with her current Minnie Mouse voice.

She stopped that starting with Lego Dimensions and Boom.

1 hour ago, Moose the Cat said:

 

Although I can't deny that Eggman does look like he could be the child of Yosemite Sam + Elmer Fudd.

Dangit, I can sorta see that.

1 minute ago, batson said:

That he's a lame ass villain.

As opposed to a lot of other things he does, no, it's totally there's an identical descendant with an existential crisis that does it.

[batson]

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

As opposed to a lot of other things he does, no, it's totally there's an identical descendant with an existential crisis that does it.

Being a villain and having an evil twin is lame. End of story.

[GummiDreams]

15 hours ago, DabigRG said:

I hate to say it, but with little to it?

 

She stopped that starting with Lego Dimensions and Boom.

Dangit, I can sorta see that.

As opposed to a lot of other things he does, no, it's totally there's an identical descendant with an existential crisis that does it.

From what little I have seen of Boom she does come across less annoying. Perhaps in a new game or show she can be a good character.  

[Styx_Linoone]

If we are not counting Comic-exclusive characters and only focus on the ones from the games, then I would undoubtedly choose Zavok.

Why?

When Sonic Lost World released, Zavok was introduced as a kind of leader of his own sub-group of villains. The only other Zeti that could close to rival him is Zazz, but even he has problems. Zavok appearing in later games as an unnecessary addition doesn't come off as annoying, it comes off as pointless. Zavok only has one character trait - leader. If you take that away from him and have him join Eggman in every adventure, where does that put him? I feel like Zavok is only there to cater to the Mario fans who enjoy Bowser so much and praise his dialogue, which I find jarring to say the least.

[DabigRG]

7 hours ago, Styx_Linoone said:

If we are not counting Comic-exclusive characters and only focus on the ones from the games, then I would undoubtedly choose Zavok.

Why?

When Sonic Lost World released, Zavok was introduced as a kind of leader of his own sub-group of villains. The only other Zeti that could close to rival him is Zazz, but even he has problems. Zavok appearing in later games as an unnecessary addition doesn't come off as annoying, it comes off as pointless. Zavok only has one character trait - leader. If you take that away from him and have him join Eggman in every adventure, where does that put him? I feel like Zavok is only there to cater to the Mario fans who enjoy Bowser so much and praise his dialogue, which I find jarring to say the least.

Zavok is really confusing overall.

He definitely has a personality and semblances of a vibe of his own, but they haven't done that much to cement him.

 

EDIT: So this exists

[Iko]

On 5/6/2020 at 10:02 PM, DabigRG said:

I'm sensing a pattern.

In fact all of the characters I mentioned follow that pattern... Sonic but girl, Sonic but edgy, Sonic but robot, Bowser+koopalings but Sonic, Cream but adult, Cheese but brown, Eggman but recolor, Sonic but classic.

I just don't like when characters have reused/unoriginal designs... I can barely give a pass to Silver for some reason (probably because he looks nothing like Sonic, similar to how Big and Blaze are both cats but they are completely different). And the ancient members of the Echidna tribe, because they are that way for lore reasons (apparently).

On 5/6/2020 at 10:02 PM, DabigRG said:

It's not like either show up much anyway. Or are focal characters.

I already explained that in my previous post, but I think the concept is a bit too complex and it's better if I explain more in depth.

In fact I said that I never complained about this because there's little reason to, since nowadays they rarely appear in a game . Vanilla is a nice character, I don't dislike her, but I think she doesn't need to show up unless she can contribute in a meaningful way to the story*. Since she has no role so far aside of being Cream's mother (she's not a detective, she's not a government spy, she's not a fighter and can't fitght nor defend herself at all, she is just there being nice to other people and we know nothng about her) I think that she can't contribute much to the story of a game, aside from being a victim/someone in danger to protect (something that gets old very fast), or a filler.

*I prefer her to stay "lore", rather than an active character, unless they find a way to make her useful (such as, I dunno, she's the owner of some big company and she's very rich, she can help the heroes with money, reserved informations and special permissions when needed).

As for Chocola, meh... maybe it's just me but honestly I think it's really an unnecessary character. I was both confused and annoyed when I played Sonic Heroes and Team Rose's mission was to find Chocola... I don't know it feels like a cheap character made just for that purpose, because they didn't think of anything better for Team Rose's story. It's fine that Cream has some other chao as pets other than just Cheese, but there was really the need to create another "Cheese" character when she already had the actual Cheese? They could have just said that she loves to raise chaos and has some of them at the chao garden near her home, without giving them specific names and make them recurring characters.

All those side characters surrounding Cream IMO make her character unnecessarily complex to manage story-wise, because when you place her in a story you also have to think about the others... yeah they can just ignore them, like they constantly do with Knuckles and the Master Emerald (and like they did for many years with Gemerl), but so far it seems most of the times they don't... when Cream has a major role in the story of a game or other media (rare sadly), expect Vanilla and/or Chocola to appear in it at any point. I think, instead of being concerned of what happend to Vanilla and Chocola, they should think more about what happend to Gemerl, because I think that in a series about action and adventure, Cream and Gemerl are a more fitting duo (trio if we count Cheese) than Cream and Vanilla. I'm not talking of cameos or minor NPC appearances, I'm talking of involvement in the actual plot (little cameos are fine).

[E-122-Psi]

On 5/7/2020 at 9:25 PM, DabigRG said:

Zavok is really confusing overall.

He definitely has a personality and semblances of a vibe of his own, but they haven't done that much to cement him.

 

EDIT: So this exists

Didn't 'Wally' Naugus get demoted to Zavok status in the reboot?

 

I think the Zeti are interesting BECAUSE their hierarchy against Eggman isn't quite clear cut. It's not like previous more sinister and powerful ones where the credibility difference is very clear cut. They can usurp one another but only at ideal opportunities, such is the case with Eggman making a device to neutralise the Zeti and then being helpless when it is disposed of. The main problem is that the writing at this point is pretty lethargic and they don't really make use of these guys or expand on them.

TSR just making Zavok a henchman of Eggman for whatever reason (if still clearly not much of a cowed one like Orbot and Cubot) was pretty lazy. I mean the story wasn't terrific all around but they at least bothered to try establish why almost everyone was there (besides Knuckles, I think they've just kinda gave up on him too)..

[DabigRG]

3 hours ago, Iko said:

, Bowser+koopalings but Sonic, 

To be fair, they're more of a general badguy/assassin group than specifically the Koopalings(who had a different feel anyway).

It's probably not a complete coincidence considering the hardware and context of release, but yeah.

3 hours ago, Iko said:

 And the ancient members of the Echidna tribe, because they are that way for lore reasons (apparently).

Well that and the technical limitations of the time necessitating there just be one model.

For what it's worth, Sonic X and the Archie Encyclopedia do vary them up a bit, with many being on the pudgy side.

3 hours ago, Iko said:

I already explained that in my previous post, but I think the concept is a bit too complex and it's better if I explain more in depth.

In fact I said that I never complained about this because there's little reason to, since nowadays they rarely appear in a game . Vanilla is a nice character, I don't dislike her, but I think she doesn't need to show up unless she can contribute in a meaningful way to the story*. Since she has no role so far aside of being Cream's mother (she's not a detective, she's not a government spy, she's not a fighter and can't fitght nor defend herself at all, she is just there being nice to other people and we know nothng about her) I think that she can't contribute much to the story of a game, aside from being a victim/someone in danger to protect (something that gets old very fast), or a filler.

*I prefer her to stay "lore", rather than an active character, unless they find a way to make her useful (such as, I dunno, she's the owner of some big company and she's very rich, she can help the heroes with money, reserved informations and special permissions when needed).

Hm.

Well you're right about this reasoning being overcomplicated.

3 hours ago, Iko said:

As for Chocola, meh... maybe it's just me but honestly I think it's really an unnecessary character. I was both confused and annoyed when I played Sonic Heroes and Team Rose's mission was to find Chocola... I don't know it feels like a cheap character made just for that purpose, because they didn't think of anything better for Team Rose's story. It's fine that Cream has some other chao as pets other than just Cheese, but there was really the need to create another "Cheese" character when she already had the actual Cheese? They could have just said that she loves to raise chaos and has some of them at the chao garden near her home, without giving them specific names and make them recurring characters.

Similar to Nega, I'm sure Chocola exists because they didn't wanna take away Cheese and thus remove Cream's unique move in her intended debut(not that you have many chances to use it). Don't get the name complaint, since he'd obviously have a name if he's on a similar level as Froggy and being Cheese's brother specifically makes it personal.

And he's only been in Heroes, with nary a mention in other games to my knowledge.

3 hours ago, Iko said:

All those side characters surrounding Cream IMO make her character unnecessarily complex to manage story-wise, because when you place her in a story you also have to think about the others... yeah they can just ignore them, like they constantly do with Knuckles and the Master Emerald (and like they did for many years with Gemerl), but so far it seems most of the times they don't... when Cream has a major role in the story of a game or other media (rare sadly), expect Vanilla and/or Chocola to appear in it at any point. I think, instead of being concerned of what happend to Vanilla and Chocola, they should think more about what happend to Gemerl, because I think that in a series about action and adventure, Cream and Gemerl are a more fitting duo (trio if we count Cheese) than Cream and Vanilla. I'm not talking of cameos or minor NPC appearances, I'm talking of involvement in the actual plot (little cameos are fine).

Again, don't get the deal. As you said, Vanilla has mainly just been an NPC who cameos when they reference Cream's personal life and the fact that she had a place & people to return to.

Gemerl is another matter and he suffers more from Cream not having much if any focus & any possible creative issue.

23 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

Didn't 'Wally' Naugus get demoted to Zavok status in the reboot?

Eh, sorta except he was still clearly his own thing and had a clear background being built up.

23 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

I think the Zeti are interesting BECAUSE their hierarchy against Eggman isn't quite clear cut. It's not like previous more sinister and powerful ones where the credibility difference is very clear cut. They can usurp one another but only at ideal opportunities, such is the case with Eggman making a device to neutralise the Zeti and then being helpless when it is disposed of. The main problem is that the writing at this point is pretty lethargic and they don't really make use of these guys or expand on them.

Pretty much.

23 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

TSR just making Zavok a henchman of Eggman for whatever reason (if still clearly not much of a cowed one like Orbot and Cubot) was pretty lazy. I mean the story wasn't terrific all around but they at least bothered to try establish why almost everyone was there

Oh dude, I wrote an entire post on how easy it would've been to make decent sense out of that subplot in addition to making him somewhat matter more as a character amidst the cast.

23 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

(besides Knuckles, I think they've just kinda gave up on him too)..

You know, I didn't think about that one. I suppose it's down to him obviously just being a long established friend among the group, but then you remember they were having a picnic by the beach. Which I seem to recall Sonic just happening upon.

 

[PaperSonic]

My least favorite character is Shadow- more specifically, Shadow the Hedgehog's version of Shadow. Other characters like Elise, the Zeti, and Dark Gaia suck, but at least they aren't the main character, and don't destroy a previous game's character.

For starters, Shadow in his game is dumb. Not "silly Knuckles got tricked by Eggman" dumb, but "his thinking patterns make no sense" dumb. First of all, why are you trusting Black Doom? Even if you ignore his name, he's still a piece of shit invading Earth and seeking the Chaos Emeralds. Also, when he thinks he's a robot, does he do something simple like cutting Onions, seeing if he bleeds, or solving a Captcha puzzle to prove if he's an android? No; instead, he tries to get answers out of Eggman. You know, the evil dude who is a well-known liar. To the surprise of nobody, Eggman claims he built him and Shadow believes him. And let's not even mention that he apparently thinks to ask questions to Eggman, yet not to his best friend, Rouge.

As a player character, Shadow fails because of the disconnect between the player and what he does. You do the Dark mission of Hot Shelter to side with Eggman? Too bad, Shadow betrays him and karate-chops him to death. Wanted to say fuck you to Amy and Espio and carry on with your life? Jokes on you, Shadow teams up with them in the Egg Dealer fights. And even from the start of the game, your goals are not the same- Shadow wants to learn about his past, but if you've played SA2 you already know. The game also communicates concepts to the player in a way that increases the disconnect. For instance, we know Black Doom is not to be trusted, because of his name and mannerisms, and we know Shadow is not a Shadow Android because they look nothing like him. 

Of course, can't forget the "2edgy4school" aspect. Having Shadow say "damn" and talking about sending others to hell is just cringe-inducing. I never cared for Shadow much to begin with, but at least he didn't come across as a total tryhard in SA2. The only good thing about him I'll say is that the mental image of him approving of stealing candies from babies is hilarious, even if that wasn't what that scene was meant to convey.

[DabigRG]

Admittedly, of the recurring cast, Shadow has been my least anticipated/enjoyable/welcome lately.

[Dr. Mechano]

On 5/6/2020 at 3:02 PM, DabigRG said:

That he's not a complete monster?

Eggman Nega himself is less of a complete monster these days.

Spoiler

In Mario and Sonic 2020, he goes out of his way to save Bowser's and Eggman's lives, and is willing to work with the heroes to do it.

True, he does try to screw Mario and Sonic over, but he still seems to show genuine concern for his ancestor's life, which contrasts pretty heavily with Sonic Rivals where he's all too happy to wipe him from existence.

I guess no one in the Robotnik family is totally immune from getting sympathetic qualities.

 

[DabigRG]

29 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

Eggman Nega himself is less of a complete monster these days.

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In Mario and Sonic 2020, he goes out of his way to save Bowser's and Eggman's lives, and is willing to work with the heroes to do it.

True, he does try to screw Mario and Sonic over, but he still seems to show genuine concern for his ancestor's life, which contrasts pretty heavily with Sonic Rivals where he's all too happy to wipe him from existence.

I guess no one in the Robotnik family is totally immune from getting sympathetic qualities.

 

wut...WHAT?!

Granted, Zavok is pretty much a grumpy, disinterested brute in that game from the cutscenes I skimmed through past the first 20 minutes and I've been under the impression Nintendo writes those stories, but wow.

I suppose he was indicated to be major in the trailer, though.