Eggman looked up to and admired Gerald Robotnik.. so why did Eggman become evil?

[thumbs13]

I don't think Gerald is what caused Eggman to go evil, it's just that it was a guiding factor. This'd be easier to sort out if we knew Eggman's age, but there's still a huge time gap unaccounted for between "child" and "grown man supervillaon"

[Catallena]

interestingly the most profound look we ever got into Eggman I believe was in Sonic X

although we don't really get to see why he's evil we understand what kind of evil he is: grim and disilliusoned.

[Plumbers_Helper]

I've always had a theory on this and it all hinges on one simple question:

How well known is Professor Gerald to the general public? It's quite possible that despite all his accomplishments and discoveries most people have no idea he even excisted. Most of his scientific endeavors that we know of were top-secret projects, so much so that G.U.N were willing to murder people to keep his projects secret. Somehow Eggman did learn about some of his accomplishments as a child, though it's unlikely he ever knew anything about what went on in the space colony ARK.

We know Eggman didn't have access to his grandfather's diary until Sonic Adventure 2 as he says "By accident, I found my grandfather's diary. In it, he described a mysterious top-secret weapon he was working on called "Project Shadow." The diary looked like it was sealed inside the military research facility when it was shut down over 50 years ago." in the Dark Story's first level recap. He also was surprised to learn about the existence of the Eclipse Canon, outright wondering "Was this my Grandfather's legacy?", adding more possibility to the fact that Eggman knew nothing about Professor Gerald's work on the ARK. Because of this, I doubt he ever knew what G.U.N did to Professor Gerald or Maria growing up and is why I doubt revenge has anything to do with him not living up to Professor Gerald's ideals.

If Professor Gerald wasn't well known to the public as I mentioned before, then I think that's all the attention-craved egocentric Eggman needs to justify his actions. His grandfather was one of the greatest scientists to ever live and what did he get out of it? What legacy did he leave behind? Nothing. He left nothing. No memorials, no statues, nothing to honor one of the most brilliant minds to ever grace the planet Earth. Eggman doesn't want that to happen to himself, in Sonic Adventure 2 he mentions securing his legacy more then once. "I'll get the Chaos Emeralds, use the machine to dominate the world and build a legacy of my own!" "Now is the time to end this long drawn-out battle and mark myself a place in history as the ultimate genius!"

If Eggman has to bend the rules, if he has to compromise the morals of his hero: the very man that he looked up to as a child so that his brilliance will be remembered long after he's gone, then so be it. Can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs...right?

 

[PaperSonic]

Old thread, but I found this topic interesting.

I feel it's  a problem in SA2's writing, that they made Eggman look up to Gerald despite it making zero sense for his character. Eggman up to this point was a card-carrying villain through and through. He just built robots and damaged the environment without a hint of complexity. 

Come SA2, and... honestly, he isn't that much different. He nukes an island, tries to have Sonic killed, threatens to shoot a little girl in the head as well as to destroy the world. And his only motivation is world conquest. At no point does he claim to have an altruistic motive. Not a problem in and of itself; not every villain needs to be sympathetic. But the issue arises in that the writers attempted to add some depth to his character with Gerald, but half-assed it. Like, in the last story, he angsts about Gerald trying to destroy the Earth... despite attempting to nuke a city with children in it last game.

[thumbs13]

16 minutes ago, PaperSonic said:

Like, in the last story, he angsts about Gerald trying to destroy the Earth... despite attempting to nuke a city with children in it last game.

Those two things are both bad, but only one of those kills literally everyone. Why wouldn't Eggman dislike that?

[DabigRG]

8 hours ago, PaperSonic said:

Old thread, but I found this topic interesting.

I feel it's  a problem in SA2's writing, that they made Eggman look up to Gerald despite it making zero sense for his character. Eggman up to this point was a card-carrying villain through and through. He just built robots and damaged the environment without a hint of complexity. 

Come SA2, and... honestly, he isn't that much different. He nukes an island, tries to have Sonic killed, threatens to shoot a little girl in the head as well as to destroy the world. And his only motivation is world conquest. At no point does he claim to have an altruistic motive. Not a problem in and of itself; not every villain needs to be sympathetic. But the issue arises in that the writers attempted to add some depth to his character with Gerald, but half-assed it. Like, in the last story, he angsts about Gerald trying to destroy the Earth... despite attempting to nuke a city with children in it last game.

I think it was supposed to be a rare soft moment for him. He's normally a goofy manchild and a short-tempered tyrant, an firework like combination, but when things were said & done and everyone was saved from Gerald's revenge thanks to Shadow's sacrifice, he lets his guard down just long enough to admit that he once looked up to Gerald and the idea that he ultimately intended to destroy everyone including his remaining flesh & blood bothers him on some level.

This read makes more sense with unused dialogue taken into account, as immediately after the tender turned sappy moment with Tails, he starts to leave and responds to Tails asking where he's going by promising that he's still planning to conquer the world, but through his own power next time and this little truce of theirs won't get in the way either.

[Almar]

On 6/5/2020 at 9:24 PM, thumbs13 said:

Those two things are both bad, but only one of those kills literally everyone. Why wouldn't Eggman dislike that?

He also only launched the missile as a last resort. Eggman more than not isn't shown as reveling in pain and destruction. Like he's fine with killing, but only as a means to an end. He'd be just as fine with not killing if he can still get his way.

Gerald on the other-hand not only blamed all of mankind for Maria's death but arranged for them to all die in despair. Not from just Shadow blowing up Earth with the Eclipse Cannon, he has to make the colony fall to Earth with the humans all watching it.

[Eurisko]

“Some men just want to watch the world burn.” 

[Dr. Mechano]

20 minutes ago, Eurisko said:

“Some men just want to watch the world burn.” 

I don't think that's Eggman, though.

Eggman has stated in Sonic Runners that he thinks he's making the world a better place, so it's not like he's just trying to cause destruction and mayhem just for the sake of it.

While it's not from the games, the IDW comics are even more explicit about this - Eggman outright believes that by forcing his will on the world, he can eliminate hunger, war, and hardship from society.  A world at peace under his absolute rule.

So I'd say Eggman represents the opposite of destructive chaos and anarchy. He embodies control and authoritarianism. Perhaps for what he believes is a noble goal, but he's still willing to cause a lot of harm and strip people of their free will to achieve it.

[Eurisko]

1 minute ago, Dr. Mechano said:

I don't think that's Eggman, though.

Eggman has stated in Sonic Runners that he thinks he's making the world a better place, so it's not like he's just trying to cause destruction and mayhem just for the sake of it.

While it's not from the games, the IDW comics are even more explicit about this - Eggman outright believes that by forcing his will on the world, he can eliminate hunger, war, and hardship from society.  A world at peace under his absolute rule.

So I'd say Eggman represents the opposite of destructive chaos and anarchy. He embodies control and authoritarianism. Perhaps for what he believes is a noble goal, but he's still willing to cause a lot of harm and strip people of their free will to achieve it.

I believe you're right. I just love the quote XD

He wants complete logical machine like order under his rule, that's his ultimate goal.

[Almar]

I mean, his bio in Sonic Technical Files combined with his Sonic Jam guide bio says he's not a bad man but one who just wants to mechanize the world since he sees machines as beautiful while not realizing the harm he's doing (too childish and self-centered). Not hard to figure that he sees a Mecha Earth as a better Earth.

[ComeAsYouAre]

It seems as if he's too delusional to realise that he's going too far, maybe having such the greatest scientist in the world as a grandfather gave him these delusions 

[iambitter21]

didn't G.U.N. kill Gerald Robotnik? if so, then the answer is either revenge, remorse, or insanity.

[Shadow Chaos Control]

“Evil is a point of view..” -Palpatine, EPIII Revenge of the Sith 

Eggman doesn’t see himself as evil, rather he sees himself as a genius, innovator, ans harbinger of a better future. His creations and machinations stem from a mad brillance, and one wonders if he achieves his goals would he fall into a depression, having conquered and created to the point of outliving his usefulness. Thankfully Sonic and Team have not allowed Eggman to face his grim fate.