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Paper Mario: The Origami King

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1 hour ago, Soniman said:

Never actually played a Mario Party game so I obviously don't have any attachments to the old game people compare the new titles too so it looks pretty cool to me. Gonna wait for reviews and fan impressions before committing though

Uh...

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Given how divided opinions have been about this, I'm curious on checking out the series now to build some expectations to this?

 

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Long-time Paper Mario fan here. I'm very conflicted with this reveal as well, for one it looks really promising. The story seems to be a bit more deep compared to the two previous games and the battle system seems to be based on the old games with a new "ring" to it, but on the other hand a lot of elements from both Sticker Star and Color Splash carried over to this game, like the art style.

I can't properly judge this game yet, for now I'll wait until more information gets revealed to determine whether it's good or not.

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3 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

I said this in the status updates, but I think it warrants a proper post instead. Neither the plot, the world nor the cast look like the Paper Mario I know and love. It looks like the same crap we got from Sticker Star and Colour Splash, but the trailer was put together in such a way that you think it's vibing on the plot of the TTYD and Super. It's paper puns and gimmicks in paper world. Not the worst thing, but I've never been a fan of the art style used in Colour Splash. I preferred when the series wasn't just paper jokes, which is sadly what the Origami King seems to be going for.

There are generic Mario NPCs everywhere including a Bob-omb called Bob-omb, Mario gets get a new origami themed exposition fairy partner to go along with the sticker and paint can partners from recent games whilst there's no sign of the original partner system. There might be times where you recruit some of Bowser's minions or other generic NPCs, but... eh. Give me characters. 

The plot looks darker? No, it doesn't. And being dark isn't the important thing. Being interesting and fun is what matters, which is what we got through the various chapters and overarching plots of PM, TTYD and SPM. The trailer opens with some paper puns from a somewhat possessed Peach. But I'm willing to bet they were specifically chosen to be in the trailer so that you think it's like TTYD. In actuality, it's going to be a very simple plot where a paper themed threat replaces Bowser as the big bad, and you've got to rescue Peach from it. Tell me if you think I'm wrong. Don't tell me to "wait and see", but please explain to me if you think I'm missing anything. 

The battle system looks... urgh. I'll be the first to admit that the battle system of the original game and TTYD actually isn't all that amazing. Any time I go back to those games, it doesn't take long before I start to actively avoid getting into battles because they all take so long and basically become muscle memory exercises. But I always loved how simple the HP, attack power and defence system was. Numbers were low, and there was no guesswork or mental arithmetic. I'm seeing something gimmicky here. I'm not impressed by it so far, but I really don't have anything to go on. If there's no relying on stickers, cards and paint then that's already an improvement. 

Fully expecting this to be Sticker Star 3. A few improvements here and there as with Colour Splash, but ultimately Nintendo don't want Paper Mario to be anything but a shadow of its former self and refuse to commit to any real change. Surface level improvements that pretend to listen to feedback.

You managed to hit the nail right in the coffin.

Because of the artstyle, this game looks nothing but color splash 2, which is bad because this is not what the fans want.

I cannot, in my right mind, give this game the benefit of the doubt, this is the third time Nintendo tries to follow the sticker star formula and they still seem eager to understand (or are willingly ignoring) that paper mario fans want a true return to the origins of the first two games, where the "paper" was simply an artstyle and not an excuse for making unfunny paper jokes that get old way too soon.

I have no hope for this title, so it's already an hard pass for me

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If the partners had unique names and designs and weren't just generic Mario enemies, I might be a little excited.

But Nintendo's just dead-set on their safe on-brand image for absolutely everything that they're stifling any creativity in terms of character. I know I won't ever be as invested in Bob-omb the Bob-omb as I was in Bombette or Bobbery. I'm sure Goomba the Goomba or Koopa Troopa the Koopa Troopa will also feel like forgettable non-entities compared to their actual unique counterparts in the previous games.

All the Toads still look the same, with no room for unique hairstyles or facial features or girl Toads other than Toadette, which is disappointing too. The "All Toads look the same" complaint about the previous two games reached memetic levels, and I was hoping Nintendo would take those criticisms to heart and change that. (No, putting one of them in a little explorer's costume doesn't count if his base design is still the standard Toad template.)

So many little things could have been different that would have improved my reception of this immensely. As of right now, I'm honestly not sure if I even want to buy this game. I just feel like I'd be frustrated the entire time at what the game could have been.

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Hate to say it, but I'm just not all that excited for this. Maybe I'll check it out if I hear overwhelmingly good things about it. It's interesting to see that Peach is somewhat the antagonist with Mario and Bowser teaming up, which doesn't really seem to happen all that often anymore, but still. Gameplay looks a tad bit better and more in line with the originals than Sticker Star or Color Splash, but not really all that much better to make me jump out of my chair in excitement. Didn't see much in terms of more original characters outside of the one unique NPC that tells Mario what to do throughout the game as usual. 

It doesn't look like a bad game, which is already a step above Sticker Star. Never played Color Splash so I can't talk much about it, but I heard the writing was a bit better. I don't know. Partners seem to be back which is cool, but it's going to take a lot more to excite me for this game. Maybe I look picky, but really, all I want is the game to feel unique. It just gives me way too many vibes from the games that I don't like, and I really don't see what Nintendo is doing with this franchise. I get they want to make the paper a more important element to the series since it is called Paper Mario, but they seem to be sacrificing way too much of what made people love the series to get that to work for some reason. 

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So did the people complaining about the paper nature of the world being addressed forget about TTYD's special forms or the entirety of Super Paper Mario? Honestly, the cut-out stuff from the past and origami i  this feels like a natural inclusion in this world.

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10 minutes ago, mayday2592 said:

So did the people complaining about the paper nature of the world being addressed forget about TTYD's special forms or the entirety of Super Paper Mario? 

I wonder about that sometimes.

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Right now, I think my biggest problem is there's a tone clash between the graphics and story. It's clear from the trailer that the story wants to be going for this darker plot with a sinister undertone, like how the Shadow Queen was in The Thousand Year Door, or how Nastasia or Dimentio were portrayed, but it clashes IMO.

In SPM, or TTYD, despite the paper visuals, the game still made an effort to make the cast look sinister. Hell, you have a whole chapter where you cut back to Luigi in the middle of the aftermath of the wedding ceremony and get a first-hand look at how creepy Natasia's mind control is. Dimentio, Mimi and the like had creepy designs that fitted with the darker visuals, and even the Shadow Queen was this huge otherworldly creature, etc.

But here, the designs are so generic. Peach just looks like an origami version of herself, it's hard to take this whole "be reborn and so on" stuff from her when she just looks more or less the same. And even the king himself has a pretty bad design IMO - especially given it literally just is a Shy Guy who turns into the king. They have this whole darkened plot that seemingly recovers SPM and TTYD's plot points of brainwashing, possession, and so on, but don't really have the visuals to make it work, or even fit because they're still trying to remain on brand as "Paper Mario is that cute whimsical series".

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The speech Peach is giving toward the beginning is clearly a gag that happens toward the beginning of the game, and even if it wasn't I'm not sure how the visuals clash anymore than they did in the other games when something serious happened.

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11 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

It's clear from the trailer that the story wants to be going for this darker plot with a sinister undertone

It's a joke. It's faux-dark, almost parodic, mimicking a dark story with body horror/possession elements, but it's silly, because it's one kind of paper character becoming a different kind of paper character. It's not "real", it's playing with the idea.

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2 hours ago, mayday2592 said:

So did the people complaining about the paper nature of the world being addressed forget about TTYD's special forms or the entirety of Super Paper Mario? Honestly, the cut-out stuff from the past and origami i  this feels like a natural inclusion in this world.

 

2 hours ago, Operationgamer17 said:

I wonder about that sometimes.

In the past, those mechanics were fun little pokes at the game's art style. Now, the characters literally are paper. Like, literally: in one of the screenshots one of the Goomba's in this game says "Were all made of paper.". As someone who absolutely loves the first three Paper Mario games, my heart sunk when I read that. These used to be real flesh and blood people, not literal manifestations of paper. What made the Paper Mario series so beloved to so many people was the story and characters, not paper mechanics and puns.


There is just so many small issues with this reveal that on their own probably wouldn't be a big deal, but because there are so many these small issues end up piling up into one big issue. I was watching GameXplain's discussion video about the game's reveal. When it was asked how everyone feels about there not being any original looking side characters again it was argued that it doesn't matter since Color Splash managed to have good writing that lampshaded all the characters looking exactly alike. I disagree that is doesn't matter because it's one of many things that makes it feel like this game is purposely creatively stifling itself. Can you make generic looking no-name characters entertaining with good writing? Yes. Would it work better to have memorably unique looking characters with names and good writing? Absolutely, so why do they purposely choose the less interesting option?


That's my problem with the Paper Mario series past Super Paper Mario. The developers always seem to ask themselves "Can we make this work?" rather then "What works best for this series?". The narrative, characters and even the gameplay of the Paper Mario series that people loved has been mostly stripped away and now all we have left of it is just the paper art style. That's why people often harp about the paper elements in the series since Sticker Star, they took something that was a minor element and suddenly made it the main attraction at the expense of nearly everything that people loved about the prior games.


I think it will be an ok game, 8/10 kind of reviews are what I'm expecting. But I doubt it will be as fun or memorable as the first two Paper Mario games or even Super Paper Mario.

 

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15 minutes ago, Plumbers_Helper said:

What made the Paper Mario series so beloved to so many people was the story and characters, not paper mechanics and puns.

They can do both! I really, genuinely don't understand why so many people are against Paper Mario acknowledging that its world and characters are made of paper.

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21 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

They can do both! I really, genuinely don't understand why so many people are against Paper Mario acknowledging that its world and characters are made of paper.

Of course they can, but as I explained in my post this wasn't originally a world where Mario and friends are made of paper. That is a retcon. Before it was just the game's art style and the games took place in the same world as the other Mario games, it's the whole "Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic are two different characters from different dimensions." problem but with Mario now. That's not even the major issue with the paper elements. The paper elements since Sticker Star have taken precedence over story, characters and gameplay. Sticker Star's story in particular was so lackluster that they didn't even give the main villain of the game one line of dialogue.

I do think that so long as the game is fun and the paper elements don't overshadow the story and gameplay, then I doubt most people will have many issues with it.

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1 minute ago, Plumbers_Helper said:

Of course they can, but as I explained in my post this wasn't originally a world where Mario and friends are made of paper. That is a retcon.

It's not! They've always been paper. That's the whole conceit of the series, it's a paper world in a storybook. Even within the first chapter of the first game you have Mario fluttering to the ground like a piece of paper...because he is paper.

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9 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

It's not! They've always been fast. That's the whole conceit of the series, it's a platformer with speed. Even within the first level of the first game you have Sonic can go so fast that the game kills you for it... because he is fast.

The riveting defense I expect to be given the next time Sega releases a trial and error Boost2Win game.

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35 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

It's not! They've always been paper. That's the whole conceit of the series, it's a paper world in a storybook. Even within the first chapter of the first game you have Mario fluttering to the ground like a piece of paper...because he is paper.

To me, that's nothing more then the game using it's unique art style to provide a visual gag. It's why Professor Kolorado latter falls fast and hard in Mt. Lavalava and gets hurt. If he was really made of paper shouldn't he have gently floated down like Mario?

To you, it's proof that the games always took place in a different world where people are made of paper. That's just something were going to have to disagree with. It's just as legitimate of an interpretation as mine.

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11 minutes ago, Tornado said:

The riveting defense I expect to be given the next time Sega releases a trial and error Boost2Win game.

I don't think this is the clever retort you think it is.

3 minutes ago, Plumbers_Helper said:

To me, that's nothing more then the game using it's unique art style to provide a visual gag. It's why Professor Kolorado latter falls fast and hard in Mt. Lavalava and gets hurt. If he was really made of paper shouldn't he have gently floated down like Mario?

To you it's proof that the games always took place in a different world where people are made of paper. That's just something were going to have to disagree with.

The games occasionally use their conceit for comedy. Mario plummets to the ground, and then is revealed to float down safely, as he is paper. Kolorado falling is a different gag entirely, unrelated to paper. It's a cartoon world, not a physics simulation. But it still chooses to portray Mario and the world around him as paper rather than some other material, and in more places than just that.

Like is this really a rare viewpoint or something? That Paper Mario is in fact made of paper?

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Just remembered now Paper Jam flat out confirmed all the citizens of the Paper Mario were made out of paper, unless i'm misremembering something and the game stated otherwise.

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18 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Like is this really a rare viewpoint or something? That Paper Mario is in fact made of paper?

Ever since Paper Mario: Sticker Star? I think most agree that Paper Mario is made of paper, myself included...especially after Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam. 

But from Paper Mario to Super Paper Mario? I disagree with that. That may be the correct canon now, but I don't think that's what was originally intended.

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