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MetalSkulkBane

Movie improved Sonic/Eggman connection

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"Huh, that's a bit random statement. I mean, they barely interact."

True. On the surface level Sonic/Eggman rivalry (in the movie) is really "meh". It has nothing on stuff like Mania Adventures, IDW/Archie or even 90s cartoons.

But movie adds something we didn't had before: Eggman is now Sonic's reflection. Don't believe me?
- They both posses powers beyond normal people (speed, smarts)
- They been hurt by the world at young age (echidnas, the bully)
- They orphans who've been left all alone.

And here's where magic starts: Solitude drove Sonic a liiiitle crazy, to the points he found friends in people he never spoke to. But Robotnik? He embraced loneliness. Put himself above normal man. Decided to hurt the word back.

And where it lead them? One thing Sonic feared most was going to Mushroom Zone, place of absolute solitude. It would destroy him. But instead Robotnik took his place. And he's fine!... not. He went completely bonkers.  He became the worst possible version of himself... and what Sonic could have been, if he wasn't a good person.

Thoughts?

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I wouldn't say it "improved their connection", but it does indeed give their rivalry a new angle and some interesting parallels.

I also liked how Jim Carrey put it, with Sonic having an "innocence" that Eggman wants but can never seem to get. So instead of embracing Sonic's path of friendship and freedom, he goes down his own dark path of conquest and control. "We have our own styles that we won't change" indeed.

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I think there *could* be something there to explore in the sequel. I felt that in this movie, all of the characters were simply going through the motions and it was hard to feel invested in them. I really hope the potential sequel allows the Sega characters to shine and look into the Sonic/Robotnik dynamic more because it BARELY scratched the surface in the first film. 

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Totally agree, OP — it felt like "Sonic: Year One"  

Emphasizing that Sonic & Eggman are both deeply lonely, but deal with that emptiness in different ways, was a smart observation by the movie writers. It makes them more like Sherlock/Moriarty, or Batman/Joker, in the way they parallel each other.

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Sonic wasn't intended to be "lonely" though. He was meant to be a "cheerful loner" as they call it who digs his friends but is fine being alone.

As for Eggman, he's meant to be a manchild who's not really "bad" and doesn't realize how much harm he's committing or is too much of a manchild to notice.

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2 hours ago, Almar said:

Sonic wasn't intended to be "lonely" though. He was meant to be a "cheerful loner" as they call it who digs his friends but is fine being alone.

As for Eggman, he's meant to be a manchild who's not really "bad" and doesn't realize how much harm he's committing or is too much of a manchild to notice.

"Prime" Sonic is cheerful loner, movie Sonic clearly isn't. If anything this is a great setup for the future, when Sonic will have little army of friends  and explains why he's so eager to forgive his ex-enemies (Knuckles, Shadow, Silver, etc).

And latter is another discussion, but again, Movie Eggman, not "Prime".

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"Their rivalry is meh" I highly disagree with that, in Mania Adventures' episode 1, in IDW issue 5-6, 23-26, in Lost World they tried, it was horribly written but okay, in Sonic Boom on TV even.

There are so many instances of their rivalry being entertaining, for different reasons, either fun, or compelling.

Mania Adventures - Eggman tries to trick Sonic, he is done with his shit and leaves him to blow up in his own trap.

IDW - First Sonic forgives him as Eggman turned over new leaf, with that handshake, then of course bites at him by saying he enjoyed being Mr. Tinker for a while, as much as SEGA won't allow that, there are bits of humanity in these characters, and Ian Flynn brings that out doing what he can. 

Besides morality, the banter is my favorite part, in Sonic Boom basically they team up in every episode and the banter is still present in daily life situations, I enjoyed that too as much as I like good fights and plot, I wish there was more of that in the movie, not that it's completely absent, it's more that the plot demands Sonic running away from danger. They will definitely explore that in the future of the movie-verse.

So no, their rivalry is hardly meh. If you wanted a reason, backstory, or basis for that, yeah it's not present much in the SEGA incarnations. The movie pleases us in a way that it gives the long waited origin story.

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1 hour ago, Jack at Home said:

"Their rivalry is meh" I highly disagree with that, in Mania Adventures' episode 1, in IDW issue 5-6, 23-26, in Lost World they tried, it was horribly written but okay, in Sonic Boom on TV even.

There are so many instances of their rivalry being entertaining, for different reasons, either fun, or compelling.

Mania Adventures - Eggman tries to trick Sonic, he is done with his shit and leaves him to blow up in his own trap.

IDW - First Sonic forgives him as Eggman turned over new leaf, with that handshake, then of course bites at him by saying he enjoyed being Mr. Tinker for a while, as much as SEGA won't allow that, there are bits of humanity in these characters, and Ian Flynn brings that out doing what he can. 

Besides morality, the banter is my favorite part, in Sonic Boom basically they team up in every episode and the banter is still present in daily life situations, I enjoyed that too as much as I like good fights and plot, I wish there was more of that in the movie, not that it's completely absent, it's more that the plot demands Sonic running away from danger. They will definitely explore that in the future of the movie-verse.

So no, their rivalry is hardly meh. If you wanted a reason, backstory, or basis for that, yeah it's not present much in the SEGA incarnations. The movie pleases us in a way that it gives the long waited origin story.

You seriously misunderstood me.

"True. On the surface level Sonic/Eggman rivalry {IN THIS MOVIE} is really "meh". Nothing on {COMPARING TO} Mania Adventures, IDW/Archie or even old 90s cartoons. "

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19 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

"Prime" Sonic is cheerful loner, movie Sonic clearly isn't. If anything this is a great setup for the future, when Sonic will have little army of friends  and explains why he's so eager to forgive his ex-enemies (Knuckles, Shadow, Silver, etc).

And latter is another discussion, but again, Movie Eggman, not "Prime".

He "forgave" the likes of Shadow since they either never did anything notably bad to begin with or worked to atone or were corrupted like Chaos or in Merlina's case were trying to do good. He's not especially forgiving to his enemies within the games, not to the point of how IDW spins him (see him blowing up Eggman in Sonic CD's ending, letting Eggman get blown up in Mania Adventures, sealing Erazor away forever, agreeing to kill Arthur and attacking Merlina when she hadn't attacked him yet).

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Those are examples of Sonic taking the shortest/fastest route to the conclusion of a stress point. He's a forgiving character because it's the choice that's more free of worry. 

He's forgiving in the sense of he isn't going to go out of his way to mess with you if he doesn't have to (generally speaking; Sonic can often be the aggressor with others, like Knuckles or Silver, but it's always when Sonic feels he's in the defensive spot. He's not one to sucker-punch people like Knuckles does to him in Sonic 3). Eggman and the other villains force his hand. And then Sonic wants to be done with it as soon as possible. 

With IDW and Mr. Tinker, it's the same. It would be more baggage for Sonic to hold a grudge or try to hold Eggman accountable once it was clear his memory really was wiped; the freer choice was to shrug and say live and let live. This is kind-hearted, but can sometimes be exploited as weakness, as we see with the consequences of IDW.  Eggman's metal virus doesn't mean Sonic was wrong to not execute him when he was Mr. Tinker -- it's not right or wrong, it doesn't matter; he's making the choice to go his own way... 

 

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