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My honest answer? No. The crush was played as a running gag, yet people treated it like a serious plot point. All the characters were exaggerrated in certain games, yet people only seemed to notice Amy. She was only the "damsel" in CD. People forget she rescued herself in Adventure 1 and even Sonic in the next game!

I see there's been more focus to make Amy more "independent" but wasn't that already her arc in Adventure 1? In that same game, she stopped Sonic and Tails from turning Gamma into scrap metal. In the Adventure games, she turned Gamma and Shadow  against the villains. (However, a common argument I see is that anybody else would've did the same. False. Sonic and Tails were going to turn Gamma into scrap metal. Sonic butt heads with Shadow because of his immaturity. On the other hand, Amy wouldn't fight Zero until he hurt the bird she was defending) In Heroes, she had her own sidekick and team.

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Yes, Rush and Battle existed.

The new Amy is definitely overcorrecting, though, and it's really weird to pretend that typing on a computer in Forces makes her a more engaging character than playing as her in Adventure 1, Heroes, and the Advance games, though.

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17 minutes ago, 4th Chaos Emerald said:

My honest answer? No. The crush was played as a running gag, yet people treated it like a serious plot point. All the characters were exaggerrated in certain games, yet people only seemed to notice Amy.
 

No, people noticed Shadow and Knuckles, and even Sonic as far as exaggerations go.

Amy wasn’t the only one they focused on. Nowadays, you can even add Tails to the mix.

 

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3 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

No, people noticed Shadow and Knuckles, and even Sonic as far as exaggerations go.

Amy wasn’t the only one they focused on. Nowadays, you can even add Tails to the mix.

 

They only noticed until recently, with the recent games

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Maybe not "that" bad...but kinda bad, yeah. When it gets to the point that her obsession with Sonic is used as a reason to beat him into submission, even if it's just sort of a jokey excuse for a boss fight, it starts to feel like a bit much.

4 minutes ago, 4th Chaos Emerald said:

She was only the "damsel" in CD.

I'd say SA2 either counts or is pretty close. Yeah she broke Sonic out of jail and triggered Shadow's real memories...but she also had to get saved by Tails twice, the second time in a hostage situation that almost got Sonic killed. And outside of those moments she's basically just being dragged along by the heroes without having anything to do.

7 minutes ago, 4th Chaos Emerald said:

I see there's been more focus to make Amy more "independent" but wasn't that already her arc in Adventure 1?

On paper, but the problem is future games didn't do that great a job of carrying through with it. Yeah she could smash a few robots if she needed to, but her character just kept getting dominated by her crush on Sonic. She needed to have something else going on to feel like a fully realized character. Unfortunately what they've ended up doing is just downplaying her crush without giving her much to make up for it, which has just replaced "annoying" with "bland".

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Honestly, it depends on how you feel; many felt that her crush dominated her character, to the point where she had very few personality traits that didn't revolve around Sonic in some way, and that was compounded at how violent and angry she had become in her pursuit of Sonic. It just left a real negative impression to the point that people straight up wanted her crush gone, or at the very least, for her character to have more dimensions. 

Nowadays though? She really doesn't have any role or do anything of note, so it's hard to say if it's "better" or not. Her more prominent roles lately come from alternative media, and they have downplayed her crush quite a bit. Probably not to the point of being non-existent, but it's certainly a far cry from when she would tackle-hug Sonic at every interval. 

For the most part though, I feel like she's slowly becoming a more rounded character who is capable of doing more than just crushing on Sonic, and regardless of how anyone feels about it, I think that's a GOOD thing because as a main character, Amy SHOULD be well rounded. That being said, I do wish they could give her more of her old immature and bratty moments to balance out her more competent streak. Show some chinks in that armor ya know. 

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14 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

 about it, I think that's a GOOD thing because as a main character, Amy SHOULD be well rounded. 

The thing is, Amy isn't a main character. She's a supporting character, which is where I think the new issues come in imo. And we can mostly draw on how she's like in TSR and IDW (which I don't like either characterizations tbh). Other than that, I agree fully with what you said. Every character you can say, "oh he's funny". "Oh, he's cocky". "Oh he's moody". I honestly can't tell you IDW Amy's personality. It's like taking away Sonic's quips and cockiness and saying, "ok he's mature now".

34 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

I'd say SA2 either counts or is pretty close. Yeah she broke Sonic out of jail and triggered Shadow's real memories...but she also had to get saved by Tails twice, the second time in a hostage situation that almost got Sonic killed. And outside of those moments she's basically just being dragged along by the heroes without having anything to do.

The thing with that is the male characters had to get rescued a couple of times too, including Sonic himself. 

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Considering what a negatively divisive character she is, yes is the best answer. The OP doesn't really carry through making an argument,but I'm now assuming it's about her being considered a bad character?

Amy's issues generally come from a combination of never really being that notable a role, having her interactions aside from Sonic be kinda minimal or dismissive, suffering from flanderization worse than any other character when she didn't have that much going on to being with, and perhaps the usual pitfalls of having a girl character who's biggest highlight/consistency is being a [wannabe] love interest. That she was kind of a joke character might have something to do with some of that.

 

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9 minutes ago, 4th Chaos Emerald said:

The thing with that is the male characters had to get rescued a couple of times too, including Sonic himself. 

Yeah but they're also continually impactful throughout the game. We see their actions through levels and boss fights, we see their physical and emotional struggles through cutscenes. Nobody's saying a character can't ever need help, but again Amy's got about 4 meaningful scenes and they're a 50-50 split between her doing something useful and her needing to be rescued.

Like I'm not going to call Rouge a damsel in distress just because she gets trapped in the vault and Shadow rescues her or because Knuckles caught her when she fell, because she spends the game being a double agent, inserting herself into Eggman's plans to gather info on Project Shadow under the President's orders, while also working on her personal business of trying to steal the Master Emerald. She's got irons in the fire and she's getting shit done, even if it doesn't always go cleanly. On the other hand, the game points out, twice, even, that Amy hasn't really gotten to do all that much, and that she keeps getting left behind while other characters actually drive the story forward.

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1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

 

On paper, but the problem is future games didn't do that great a job of carrying through with it. Yeah she could smash a few robots if she needed to, but her character just kept getting dominated by her crush on Sonic. She needed to have something else going on to feel like a fully realized character. 

Yeah, that definitely influenced her problems after Adventure. 

35 minutes ago, 4th Chaos Emerald said:

The thing is, Amy isn't a main character. She's a supporting character, which is where I think the new issues come in imo. And we can mostly draw on how she's like in TSR and IDW (which I don't like either characterizations tbh). Other than that, I agree fully with what you said. Every character you can say, "oh he's funny". "Oh, he's cocky". "Oh he's moody". I honestly can't tell you IDW Amy's personality. It's like taking away Sonic's quips and cockiness and saying, "ok he's mature now".

She's sometimes considered a main character in the sense that she shows up a majority of the time even as other characters were starting to be cut back and it did seem like SonicTeam intended for her to become a heroine in her own right up till 2004.

Even if we just consider her a supporting or recurring chaecter though, she does lack a certain usefulness or speciality that characters like Rouge and the Chaotix have.

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1 hour ago, 4th Chaos Emerald said:

The thing is, Amy isn't a main character. She's a supporting character, which is where I think the new issues come in imo. And we can mostly draw on how she's like in TSR and IDW (which I don't like either characterizations tbh). Other than that, I agree fully with what you said. Every character you can say, "oh he's funny". "Oh, he's cocky". "Oh he's moody". I honestly can't tell you IDW Amy's personality. It's like taking away Sonic's quips and cockiness and saying, "ok he's mature now".

 

Naw dude, she's been a main character for a long ass time now; she's not always treated that way, but Sega very clearly promote her as a main character along with Team Sonic and Eggman.

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The thing with Amy is that there doesn't seem to be much of a middle ground with her portrayals in a lot of Sonic media. It's either "overly obsessed with Sonic, a temper that gets played up way too often & despite getting involved in the action she doesn't get many moments to shine," or "spends most of the story in the background doing next to nothing, has 1 or maybe 2 lines about liking Sonic & rarely ever getting involved in the action," which SEGA apparently considers a more "matured/empowered" version of Amy. 

I can only speak for myself obviously, but I've always felt like the best version of Amy Rose would be her post-reboot Archie characterization. She retained most of the quirks of her character as a bubbly Sonic-loving fangirl, but was more than capable of handling herself while also having interests in stuff outside of Sonic. I don't hate the current version of Amy Rose, but she feels incredibly bland right now & the insistence that they've improved her just feels a bit disingenuous to me.

23 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

Naw dude, she's been a main character for a long ass time now; she's not always treated that way, but Sega very clearly promote her as a main character along with Team Sonic and Eggman.

To be fair, I can kinda see where they're coming from. She's absolutely a core member of the cast, but Amy has never really been given much focus in the games main story like Shadow, Blaze, or Knuckles have gotten before.

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34 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

Naw dude, she's been a main character for a long ass time now; she's not always treated that way, but Sega very clearly promote her as a main character along with Team Sonic and Eggman.

She's really not, unless if having two minute worth of scenes combined from both Lost World and Forces qualifies as being a main character lmao

7 minutes ago, D.H said:

I can only speak for myself obviously, but I've always felt like the best version of Amy Rose would be her post-reboot Archie characterization. She retained most of the quirks of her character as a bubbly Sonic-loving fangirl, but was more than capable of handling herself while also having interests in stuff outside of Sonic. I don't hate the current version of Amy Rose, but she feels incredibly bland right now & the insistence that they've improved her just feels a bit disingenuous to me..

This, so much. I don't know why Ian changed her for IDW when he got her right before it.

The new, "mature" version just feels like the generic strong female character. I said it before, and I'll say it again. It's like taking away Sonic's quips and cockiness and going "okay, he's mature now"

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8 minutes ago, 4th Chaos Emerald said:

She's really not, unless if having two minute worth of scenes combined from both Lost World and Forces qualifies as being a main character lmao

This, so much. I don't know why Ian changed her for IDW when he got her right before it.

The new, "mature" version just feels like the generic strong female character. I said it before, and I'll say it again. It's like taking away Sonic's quips and cockiness and going "okay, he's mature now"

To be fair to Ian, I think it's moreso making Amy's character in IDW line up with SEGA's vision for the character.

Unless I'm mistaken, which I'd gladly admit.

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1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

Even if we just consider her a supporting or recurring chaecter though, she does lack a certain usefulness or speciality that characters like Rouge and the Chaotix have.

I respectfully disagree. Like I (and yourself) said, Amy had her own team and sidekick. Her thing was also that she sees the good in anyone.

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If you mean "EVER that bad"... yes she was. Not to say she's better now, but she was a freaking stalker. I mean, c'mon, let's not justify her horrible games: Sonic Heroes, Sonic Battle, Sonic Free Riders, mostly. SA Amy was okay though, but still a stalker, I admit.

Nowadays, things have changed, SEGA wants to give a better image of Amy, they want to focus on the series lead female, I totally get that. You don't see too many lead females in franchises talk about their main hero crush ALL the time, and that's for a reason.

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38 minutes ago, Jack at Home said:

If you mean "EVER that bad"... yes she was. Not to say she's better now, but she was a freaking stalker. I mean, c'mon, let's not justify her horrible games: Sonic Heroes, Sonic Battle, Sonic Free Riders, mostly. SA Amy was okay though, but still a stalker, I admit.

Nowadays, things have changed, SEGA wants to give a better image of Amy, they want to focus on the series lead female, I totally get that. You don't see too many lead females in franchises talk about their main hero crush ALL the time, and that's for a reason.

EVERYONE was exaggerated in those games you mentioned. EVERYONE. This is is exactly what I was talking about when I said how people only seem to care when it's Amy that's being flanderized. But like I also said, Amy had her own team and sidekick in Heroes.

When did SA1 Amy ever "stalk" Sonic? She actually approached Sonic so he could help the "birdie" and it was actually HIM who was acting weird first. Then the rest of the game, she's helping Gamma and the bird.

It's not weak for a female characters to have a crush on Sonic. Think of all the movies with a strong "male" character and romantic subplot. Does that make them weak? This is even a thing in stories made by female writers like Twilight.

 

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Personally I found Amy just plain insufferable until they started toning her down Even putting aside her crush, which resulted in crap like cornering Sonic and trying to force him to marry her, her other main character trait was that she was extremely violent and volatile and I gotta say it didn't make her endearing seeing her just fly off the handle.

The point you mentioned about her arc in SA1 would be a good example of character growth if like Tails story to be more confident it actually amounted to anything or ever mattered past the game it happened in.

I feel like Amy now is at least trying to follow that "I gotta be more independent" plotline and is making her every waking thought about how much she wants to get with Sonic and I think she's a way more fun character now than she ever used to be.

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To be honest, I kinda miss the old, energetic bubbly Amy from the Adventure era, but I can understand why they changed her. 

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9 hours ago, D.H said:

To be fair to Ian, I think it's moreso making Amy's character in IDW line up with SEGA's vision for the character.

Unless I'm mistaken, which I'd gladly admit.

Nah, that's it. He was told to tone down the affection when pitching Issue 2.

9 hours ago, 4th Chaos Emerald said:

I respectfully disagree. Like I (and yourself) said, Amy had her own team and sidekick. Her thing was also that she sees the good in anyone.

A little mixing up, but let's touch on that.

Sonic Heroes saw Amy get to head her own team that was situational improvised by their mutual inclination to find Sonic and Amy having some tendency for interacting with and helping the little people like herself. This is neat on paper and all, but then you

And then there's Cream, who was initially conceptualized to be her own kid sidekick. What can we see that came out of that?

4 hours ago, StaticMania said:

Good, now SA1 Amy is being grouped with the others...because people can't separate.

What do you mean exactly?

2 hours ago, Jack at Home said:

. SA Amy was okay though, but still a stalker, I admit.

 

Uh, not really?

She was mostly minding her own business before getting involved in Lilly's escape from ZERO and just happened across Sonic, which gave her the idea to ask for his help.

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2 hours ago, SBR2 said:

Personally I found Amy just plain insufferable until they started toning her down Even putting aside her crush, which resulted in crap like cornering Sonic and trying to force him to marry her, her other main character trait was that she was extremely violent and volatile and I gotta say it didn't make her endearing seeing her just fly off the handle.

The point you mentioned about her arc in SA1 would be a good example of character growth if like Tails story to be more confident it actually amounted to anything or ever mattered past the game it happened in.

I feel like Amy now is at least trying to follow that "I gotta be more independent" plotline and is making her every waking thought about how much she wants to get with Sonic and I think she's a way more fun character now than she ever used to be.

Like I said before, that was a running gag. And her only trait wasn't being "volatile and violent"(which was also a running gag, in itself). Her thing was she could see the good in anyone. We seen that with Gamma and Shadow. 

The SA1 arc DID amount to something. It amounted to her having her own team and sidekick in Heroes, just like her hero. 

I respectfully disagree with that opinion. In my honest opinion, the "new" Amy is just an average female character. I can't even tell you how IDW Amy acts like. And that's not even being biased. I actually cannot.

57 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

And then there's Cream, who was initially conceptualized to be her own kid sidekick. What can we see that came out of that?

What can we see come out of Tails's independent arc after Heroes?

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I never played the game, but didn't Amy once threatened Cream with violence in Sonic Battle? Because if so, then that's definitely going way to far with the whole psycho-angle.

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1 hour ago, 4th Chaos Emerald said:

Like I said before, that was a running gag. And her only trait wasn't being "volatile and violent"(which was also a running gag, in itself). Her thing was she could see the good in anyone. We seen that with Gamma and Shadow. 

The SA1 arc DID amount to something. It amounted to her having her own team and sidekick in Heroes, just like her hero. 

I respectfully disagree with that opinion. In my honest opinion, the "new" Amy is just an average female character. I can't even tell you how IDW Amy acts like. And that's not even being biased. I actually cannot.

What can we see come out of Tails's independent arc after Heroes?

Yeah. I mean don't get me wrong, Amy had some bad writing in the mid-2000s games (Battle, Rush for example), but Heroes!Amy being only defined by that one scene when the entire game was filled with characters acting like idiots so they have a reason to fight each other is a bit silly to me. She led her own team, kept their motivations high even when they felt like things weren't going well & actually showed something resembling leadership capabilities.

And I can't exactly agree with dismissing her Adventure 1 story, just because SEGA dropped the ball on developing it a few games afterwards. Tails & Shadow got similar treatment after a while too, but it doesn't discount their stories & how well done they were.

55 minutes ago, batson said:

I never played the game, but didn't Amy once threatened Cream with violence in Sonic Battle? Because if so, then that's definitely going way to far with the whole psycho-angle.

Yeah, she did. Again, I'd consider Sonic Battle to be a better example of how poorly Amy's character was handled, because she had far more terrible moments in that game.

Thinking about it, I suppose the biggest issue I have with Amy's character these days is how much they're talking about how "empowered, mature & improved" she is, without really showing it. Lost World she was on the sidelines for the entire game & she spent most of Forces in the background, talking to Buddy. Most of her better moments ever since they started this new direction for the character came from external media, like IDW or LEGO Dimensions, while she continues to do very little in the actual mainline games. It may be a bit too early so I'm not gonna write off this interpretation of her or anything, but if they're actually developing the character, I would like to see her take an active role in the plot again, while still maintaining her positive/energetic personality. Shouldn't be too much to ask for, I don't think.

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