New game Ideas?

[Diogenes]

And modify the Hedgehog engine so that the graphics are photo realistic instead of cartoonish.

How the fuck do you have a photorealistic bipedal talking blue hedgehog.

[SuperLink]

I know Unleashed's humans were too cartoony, but I'd have that any day over the (attempted) super realistic Sonic 2006. It didn't look like a Sonic game in the slightest, and Sonic looks plain stupid next to realistic humans. You know what's a better idea? Just less humans. The environments in Sonic Unleashed were far better than anything in Sonic 2006. Realistic in some ways, but more than anything, incredibly vibrant and beautiful.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

It didn't look like a Sonic game in the slightest, and Sonic looks plain stupid next to realistic humans. You know what's a better idea? Just less humans.

Doc Eggman/El Gran Gordo would rip you to shreads over that.

Besides, there's nothing wrong with the humans, so long as their images fits along with Sonic's presence.

Edited March 12, 2009 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Diogenes]

Since we're talking about humans, I'ma throw in my vote for Sonic-styled humans again.

[SuperLink]

I'll go for Sonic styled humans, but there are still too many. We don't need these NPCs and stuff. We know it's on Earth, and we know we have good ol' Doctor Eggman, but the amount of random humans in unecessary.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I'll go for Sonic styled humans, but there are still too many. We don't need these NPCs and stuff. We know it's on Earth, and we know we have good ol' Doctor Eggman, but the amount of random humans in unecessary.

They're about as unnecessary as Knuckles and Tails, you don't need them but they can help breathe some extra life into the game.

The random humans hardly do anything at all. They're just their to make the game look inhabited when you're prowling in the cities and viliages, that atleast accounts for something.

I find their presence welcome.

Edited March 12, 2009 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[SuperLink]

It can't be denied that the more humans you include, the more "fans" you're alienating. Tails and Knuckles are popular, series staples, but a good amount of "classicfans" still think Sonic is from a fantasy world without humans, and they want him back there (lol) or they'll likely not ever accept the new Sonic for who he is. At least this way we attempt to create the illusion (like Sonic Heroes for example, no humans, I'm not complaining, it was very "Sonic-y", even if it wasn't a fantastic game itself.)

Lessening the amount of human NPCs, and limiting the ones that get to be main characters (e.g Pickle wasn't necessary, Tails could have done his job for him) would make more people happy than it would disappoint people.

Edited March 12, 2009 by SuperLink

[Dr. Mechano]

Lessening the amount of human NPCs, and limiting the ones that get to be main characters (e.g Pickle wasn't necessary, Tails could have done his job for him) would make more people happy than it would disappoint people.

Really? Pickle carries an entirely different charm and "essence" than Tails does.

Tails is a smart kid, no doubt. But Pickle encompasses the modern portrayal of an "old wise man", someone knowledgeable about tales of the past and ancient prophecies, while Tails specializes in mechanics. I for one thought he was a great character, and to that end, far more likable than the other newcomer Chip was.

A human character made me a fan of this series in the first place. So I guess I don't share the same anti-human bias some fans do. I think Eggman, Nega, Gerald, Pickle, Dr. Madden, the GUN Commander, and other humans like them are great, memorable, and charming additions to the series.

What do you have to complain about? Animals make up the bulk of the playable cast, and get the most focus. Humans get tragically unappreciated roles in the series, but they're prominent enough to make their fans happy about their appearances. If Pickle were shorter and hairier, would he be any different? I think not.

The series started with a hedgehog and a man. I think both deserve representation. This isn't an "animals only" series, and humans definitely have an esteemed place in it, particularly one of its founding characters, Dr. Eggman.

[ArtFenix]

I'd love that same thing. Also, an epic, heartpumping storyline. Bring back his Soaps, and 2P-4P race mode. And no cutesy stuff....I gagged at most of the Unleashed stuff, ugh.

And modify the Hedgehog engine so that the graphics are photo realistic instead of cartoonish. They were able to do that with the Legend of Zelda Wind Waker Engine for Twilight Princess.

Yes, you sure are right! I second that! Maybe, not photo realistic(as you can see there are many people, who don't think it fits Sonic), but at least the same as it was in SA, Sa2, maybe in some stages in SH and Shth, SR, SRZG. I disagree. There WERE some stages in S06, which are just amazing. I'm talking about Kingdom valley. Unleashed's (and SH's by the way) TOOOOOO cartoonish style sucks hard (except Adabat which is truly awesome, but there is no mystery...). Don't make sonic games tooo cartoonish, S06's style was decent and if you don't like realistic humans, just imagine there were NO humans in S06. What'd you say? In this case, the style fits well, doesn't it?

Edited March 12, 2009 by ArtFenix

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

It can't be denied that the more humans you include, the more "fans" you're alienating.

Yes it can. The fans won't be alienated, they'll just be making a big fuss over nothing.

Tails and Knuckles are popular, series staples, but a good amount of "classicfans" still think Sonic is from a fantasy world without humans, and they want him back there (lol) or they'll likely not ever accept the new Sonic for who he is.

That's just them. But either way, Classic Fans should get over the fact that they've been around longer and know Sonic's past. They're not the only fans around, some people appreciate the presence of the humans so long as they fit in Sonic's world. If they don't, then they don't. It's not a big deal that what folks make it out to be.

Lessening the amount of human NPCs, and limiting the ones that get to be main characters (e.g Pickle wasn't necessary, Tails could have done his job for him) would make more people happy than it would disappoint people.

Actually lessening the amount of human NPCs and the main characters won't do jack to make anyone happy or disappoint anyone. They're not a problem to begin with, and the folks who make a fuss over them are just butthurt for whatever trivial reason they can pull up about it.

[Dr. Mechano]

Humans aren't some new concept the Adventure series ushered in.

Eggman and Wendy Witchcart were both humans who both existed prior to Adventure. Modern cities decorated the background of many a zone. Townspeople and random NPCs in general, human or otherwise, didn't appear. That's why the older games felt emptier. It wasn't an absence of humans, it was an absence of anyone who wasn't directly involved in the plot.

This leaves absolutely no reason to assume humans didn't exist, especially when two of them explicitly did exist. Humans are no more an affront to the classic era than the name "Eggman" is, which also existed prior to 1998.

Edited March 12, 2009 by El Gran Gordo

[SuperLink]

Man I wish you people were on every forum I visit. I'd never have problems with "classicfans" ever again. xD

[Dr. Mechano]

Man I wish you people were on every forum I visit. I'd never have problems with "classicfans" ever again. xD

I like the classic-era games just fine. From a gameplay perspective, I think they're the best the series has to offer.

Story-wise I prefer the newer games because of all the character development and humanization, especially in Eggman's case. Going from the silent antagonist to arguably the most complex character in the series was a good move for him.

[RhikoruFa-La-La-La-♪]

Allow me to switch between Sonic Adventure controls (for platforming) or Sonic Unleashed controls (for faster sections).

DESIGN: You see Burnout Paradise? Act 5 of the Chun-Nan pack? Mix those together. Give me a fairly large open world I can run around on, platforming missions and speedy missions, and use that in a Super Mario 64-ish way to get new missions, and eventually, new worlds.

Checkpoints over Life System, PLEASE. Lives are outdated by now and just make it more tedious and frustrating.

Ranks? Well, if platforming missions (where I can go slow and explore and not feel punished) are separate from speedy missions (where I get the extra rush of finishing as fast as I can), then sure. A good reward rather than the basic satisfaction for getting all S ranks would be great too, rather than just an invisible pat on the back. :/

PLOT: Simple plot; Eggman taking over world, Sonic and Tails has to stop him, and make it an even mix between epic and light-hearted, a middle ground between Unleashed and SA2 would be perfect.

CHARACTERS:

-No new characters, just Sonic, Tails, and maybe Knuckles, ONLY if Angel Island is revisited.

-Super Sonic in levels (ability to fly with Super Sonic specific paths and missions only he can go through).

EXTRAS:

-

Chaos Emerald Special Stages hidden in each world, and (just a dream), an unlockable retro-Sonic (Sonic 4, basically) game for getting all the tokens or w/e.

That's about it, really.

Edited March 12, 2009 by Roffles

[SuperLink]

Story-wise I prefer the newer games because of all the character development and humanization, especially in Eggman's case. Going from the silent antagonist to arguably the most complex character in the series was a good move for him.

A huge amount of "fans" dismiss the story instantly, they even thinks it makes the game worse. They constantly say "Sonic shouldn't have story, Sonic should be about Sonic rescuing his animal friends from Dr Robotnik's Badniks, and that's it, nothing more, it's unecessary and shit". It really makes me sick but I have to put up with is (I guess a lot of you do aswell)

The thing is, as long as it has the gameplay (OK maybe it doesn't right now) why should those people give two shits about whether there's story or not? Sometimes I just feel like whacking my head against a wall and maybe implying to them that Super Paper Mario might have had a story, MAYBE. I bet their heads would explode.

[Dr. Mechano]

A huge amount of "fans" dismiss the story instantly, they even thinks it makes the game worse. They constantly say "Sonic shouldn't have story, Sonic should be about Sonic rescuing his animal friends from Dr Robotnik's Badniks, and that's it, nothing more, it's unecessary and shit". It really makes me sick but I have to put up with is (I guess a lot of you do aswell)

The thing is, as long as it has the gameplay (OK maybe it doesn't right now) why should those people give two shits about whether there's story or not? Sometimes I just feel like whacking my head against a wall and maybe implying to them that Super Paper Mario might have had a story, MAYBE. I bet their heads would explode.

Make no mistake- I want Eggman to be the main villain of a mainstream 3D title. That much is long overdue for the franchise's number one villain. But still pepper it with the witty dialog and flashy mannerisms that make him the lovable mad scientist he is.

And Super Paper Mario definitely had a complex story. As fun as its gameplay was, the plot was the main draw for me.

[SuperLink]

Yep, that was my point. So many people loved Super Paper Mario, but why isn't Sonic allowed a complex story? It's that kind of hypocritical thinking from "classicfans" that annoys me most.

[Dr. Mechano]

Yep, that was my point. So many people loved Super Paper Mario, but why isn't Sonic allowed a complex story? It's that kind of hypocritical thinking from "classicfans" that annoys me most.

I guess it depends on what kind of complex.

There's good and serious... And then there's bad and serious, usually the result of trying to make the game overly dark and edgy, ala Shadow.

Unleashed had a "complex" plot with its character interaction and dialog, but it was still lighthearted and whimsical. That's the kind of complexity I personally like. Of course, SA2 was darker, but still good, as it was actually well-written and still had hints of a lighthearted charm which accented its dark overtones.

Shadow/2K6 though, came across as incredibly forced and awful to me. Complexity wasn't their problem. Having a story tone that was totally out of touch with the rest of the franchise was.

Edited March 12, 2009 by El Gran Gordo

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

A huge amount of "fans" dismiss the story instantly, they even thinks it makes the game worse.

They constantly say "Sonic shouldn't have story, Sonic should be about Sonic rescuing his animal friends from Dr Robotnik's Badniks, and that's it, nothing more, it's unecessary and shit".

The only thing that makes it worse to them is that there are MORE people outside the fanbase and gaming industry that actually LIKES the story and the new stuff, and they don't like the successes with those people one bit.

Only thing they fail to realizes is that Sonic Team isn't making the games to please just those folks alone, and a lot of folks hate that fact that they're reaching out to other people. It's not always a bad thing to have something fresh, but it's also not a good thing to jump over the cliff with new ideas.

The thing is, as long as it has the gameplay (OK maybe it doesn't right now) why should those people give two shits about whether there's story or not?

Well Sonic has established himself as a series and is doing something that made him great. It's not exactly too good an idea to bring in entirely different game mechanics into the gameplay every game that comes around.

That's the case with Sonic, almost every game has him doing something far different from previous games, while still playing like Sonic Adventure 10 years ago. It's not a bad thing to do something new every once in a while, but Sonic's been very jumpy. One game he's running from A to B, next game he's capping folks with a pistol (well, technically that was Shadow), then next he's a werehog fighting like God of War.

It's as if your water suddenly felt like turning into ice when you're about to drink it, and then turned into fire the next. Some people like it, some people don't, that's just how it is.

Although, yes, as long as the gameplay is good, there shouldn't be nothing to fuss about. That's the theory, anyway. Unfortunately, you'll always have folks who will pick out every little detail on the game, and there's not really a lot you can do about it.

Sometimes I just feel like whacking my head against a wall and maybe implying to them that Super Paper Mario might have had a story, MAYBE. I bet their heads would explode.

Just chill man, let'em whine. A lot of folks still end up buying the stuff anyway.

Edited March 12, 2009 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Diogenes]

Yep, that was my point. So many people loved Super Paper Mario, but why isn't Sonic allowed a complex story? It's that kind of hypocritical thinking from "classicfans" that annoys me most.

To be fair, SPM is 1/2 RPG. I wouldn't want a plot that thick in a core Mario platformer any more than I'd want it in a core Sonic platformer. I'd also argue that SPM's deluge of words gets in the way of actually playing the game, even for a 1/2 RPG.

Also do that many people love SPM? I found it to be kind of meh overall...

[SuperLink]

I loved it, I did think it was a little underrecognised. I mainly liked the story and the music, but it was stick very good fun.

The thing is, even when I say "Sonic Battle/Chronicles" has a great story, I generally get the same response as usual, "Sonic's not meant to have a story".

[SuperStingray]

Shadow/2K6 though, came across as incredibly forced and awful to me. Complexity wasn't their problem. Having a story tone that was totally out of touch with the rest of the franchise was.

Agreed. If they had saved a storyline like 06's for Chronicles (only, you know, better) I'd have loved it much more. And Shadow's, I can't see it working in any game unless it was deliberately overexaggerated for comic effect, i.e. MadWorld.

Also do that many people love SPM? I found it to be kind of meh overall...

It's a controversial game. I thought it was great.

[lounge]

Most Classic fans would actually murder you for saying that. Especially the photo realistic think... photo realistic Sonic? Really? You've got to be shitting me. o.0;

I'm mainly talking about photo realistic lighting on the environments and detail. The world should still have a fictional, cartoonish style to it. But it would be nice to see a new art direction. It's not like I'm saying, change sonic's design. Although, it would be nice if they didn't make sonic shorter in each game. He looks younger than he looked in SA2 nowadays.

I think a next gen re-model of his SA2 design would look very cool. In SA2, he actually looked like a teenager. Nowadays, he looks like a kid.

[lounge]

How the fuck do you have a photorealistic bipedal talking blue hedgehog.

Fans don't know what they want. Most of them just assume they don't want something or they think something won't work, when they don't even have experience in the technical fields. I think it would be a great experiment for the developers to try.

[SuperLink]

I think that's the Dreamcast's polygon count talking in all honesty... If anything, Sonic looks more like chubby ol' Sonic than before, which lots of people are happy about. Sonic 2006 looks more like his SA2 look. I wouldn't mind a mix of both though mind you, he did look awesome in 2006, minus his shitty looking mouth (well every character's shitty looking mouth)