New game Ideas?

[Dr. Mechano]

Oh come now people, you know how Eggman/Robotnik is very often not regarded as a human character. While he totally is one, he's not the same as the others. Not even Gerald.

I don't accept that.

Eggman is a human. The only furry thing about him is his upper lip. He is a MAN.

Thus, Eggman- a human- has been around since the beginning of the series. Wendy Witchcart also debuted before the Adventure era, and she's human too!

Humans have always existed in the Sonic series. They(Or any ordinary non plot-centric characters) simply didn't appear in the very simplistic storylines of the old games. But they always existed. Eggman existing is enough proof of that.

This furry elitism/misanthropy in the fanbase really irks me, seriously.

Edited March 14, 2009 by El Gran Gordo

[SuperStingray]

Eggman is a human. The only furry thing about him is his upper lip. He is a MAN.

Thus, Eggman- a human- has been around since the beginning of the series. Wendy Witchcart also debuted before the Adventure era, and she's human too!

Humans have always existed in the Sonic series. They(Or any ordinary non plot-centric characters) simply didn't appear in the very simplistic storylines of the old games. But they always existed. Eggman existing is enough proof of that.

This furry elitism/misanthropy in the fanbase really irks me, seriously.

Yeah, that really gets to me too. The concept is almost like racism when you think about it.

I think there's sort of a framework interest going on here: people have become adjusted to the character paradigm of a colorful anthropomorphic animal with unique gloves and shoes since they've become more formally introduced and developed (with the exception of Eggman of course) and anything that goes against that burns at some people in an OCD sort of way.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Here's the thing about the gimmicks in the Sonic games- Gimmicks aren't necessarily a bad thing. In Mario games, the attacks (which are pretty much optional anyway), the water pack, outer space- it all serves to enhance the basic Mario gameplay, which is just simple platforming. There are two reasons I believe that gimmicks are generally opposed in Sonic games:

1. The particular ones that are used don't enhance the gameplay so much as contradict it. The gunplay, treasure hunting, werehog, and sword (the latter of which I don't see being entirely justified as a complaint, being in a spinoff) all require slowing down, less straightforwardness and just plain deviate too far from the gameplay most have come to expect from the genesis games. In fact, the only gimmicks I've seen work (at least in concept) are the airboards in Riders, the trio gameplay in Heroes and the 2D-3D gameplay alternation in Unleashed.

2. There is no longer a clear cut direction for the Sonic games. The current Sonic team seems to be trying to put in what makes a video game appealing and not what makes a Sonic game appealing and is ending up just losing sight of the original formula of series.

Now, I personally don't have much of an issue with the gimmicks. Since I played SA2 first, I'm used to variety in the games. But I still think enough's enough at this point.

You don't have to tell me, dude. I know all that already.

I already made that clear in the second paragraph of my post, although maybe I should've elaborated a bit more. I just didn't want to make that post too long in explaining every little detail like I usually do, so I tried to simplify it to basic points.

Too bad that didn't turn out well.

Edited March 15, 2009 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[goodone121]

I would like to modify my idea.

First off, the egotistical scientist of the series ambushes Sonic at the Hidden Palace.

Then, the final Eggman boss comes ''just before'' the final Temple, and it has 2 forms. The fight starts with the Werehog, and uses this BGM:

After this form is defeated, our antagonist transforms his robotic weapon using accumulated Chaos Energy.The BGM is now:

The last QTE has Sonic tapping in, as well, and using Super form.

is the BGM for the final fight against Dark Gaia.

Not even Super form is strong enough. I would time it so Sonic goes Hyper precisely when the song gets more upbeat.

The beam from the Super Emeralds hits the Master Emerald first, ''then'' the Gaias. Just to clarify, the cutscene showing this should be epic.

...What do you think?

Edit:Readded links

Edited March 16, 2009 by goodone121

[Ticky]

I think the following need to be revised before a truly successful sonic game (IE pleases fans) game can come about;

The controls need serious revision. or, at least, sonic's running physics. A slight tap of a joystick sends him flying in that direction -- that's TERRIBLE. Even in werehog form precision was WAY off. Too jumpy. Like Halo Wars. =P

Consider not introducing new extraneous abilities. Bring sonic back his cool. And while you're at it, kill... er, maybe just fire his voice actor. He sounds like a total douche going "Woah!" and "Alright!" after every successful jump. Even just his speech irritates the heck out of me.

Revision of the homing attack physics/controls: The homing attack is far too jumpy and imprecise to be useful, really. Especially the way the camera just decides that once you've killed one, it'll focus on whatever one it thinks is next, so it's impossible to actually attack in the order you want. It also jumps in entirely the wrong direction at times with no apparent reason.

Consider revising the placement of powerups, too. Or at least explain to people what's going on. An "Objectives" screen would help, too. Without giving too much RPG feel, rather than having to navigate back to the professor every time i want to play (Since that's generally a long way apart).

i probably have more to say, but meh.

[BlueFlare]

You must not have read the Japanese manuals for the old games. The stories were very detailed and even had their share of plot holes.

I was five when I played Sonic for the first time so I never really cared to read any of those manuals to find out the storyline. I know there's a story for each game but it's not actually told in the older games like in the newer ones. You get it? I don't know how to explain this clearly.

Um... I don't get... how are the bolded things gimmicks?

Those are the "bad" gimmicks to me and should never be in a Sonic game. Huge monsters as bosses are the biggest cliche in video games ever, in my opinion. Maybe it'll attract your childish minds but not mine. I like the robots, machines better. There's actually nothing wrong with Chip himself, but when he turned out being a godlike creature, I gave up. Might sound a bit ridiculous but..yeah. It's ridiculous..and stupid.

I know people have always existed in Sonic's world but things like love realtionships and other crap like that between Sonic and a female human character is the worst sh*t ever. I played Sonic Adventure 2 for the first time in my life few weeks ago. My ears still hurt after hearing the music. Same with Heroes... also concerns voice acting.

What comes to Robotnik..

Oh come now people, you know how Eggman/Robotnik is very often not regarded as a human character. While he totally is one, he's not the same as the others. Not even Gerald.

..this is what I thought even though I didn't say it.

Uh peterpan, Did you not play the rush series?

Yes, I did. Those were both good.

This is kind of ridiculous because the topic is all about new game ideas but when I come here to tell my own ideas, a lot of people argue with almost every single of my opinions. Come on people, chill out.

Edited March 15, 2009 by PeTeRpAn

[Gamenerd]

The problem with Sonic lies almost entirely in the development process.

First off, I think they need to create a solid engine that will be consistently relevant to the series. A true pinball physics, 360º engine, like the engine used to power both Super Monkey Ball and F-Zero GX. The original 360º Pinball physics engine they created for the Genesis lasted for 5 games (Sonic 1, 2, 3, K, and CD), which is pretty impressive for an engine at that time. So, yeah, create an all-in-one engine that encompasses ease-of-development, speed, physics and consistency. The physics engine should be able to handle the tight controlled physics of a running Sonic as well as the loose, accelerating physics of a curled-up Sonic.

The big problem though lies in stage creation. These days it's not acceptable to have a small game like the old games were, not as a full price retail game. Unleashed for example, filled out all of the good parts of the game with pisspoor Werehog section just to give it length. The thing with Sonic is, he runs some 20x faster than Mario. That means that to make a stage that is as long as a Mario stage, you have to put in 20x more effort to make that stage. That's a pretty ridiculous amount of development to put into one hand-rendered stage.

Which is why I say, take a leaf out of Mario's book. Mario 64 worked because even though there were only 15 main stages, they were varied enough in missions to keep you coming back for more. And that's where I feel Sonic should go. Make about 10 big virtual playgrounds that are 5 or 6 times bigger than your average Mario 64 level, and pack them with various different missions. Most of these "missions" would be simple point A to point B type deals (that is what Sonic is about after all) - this way they can take one area, and make you run across it multiple times, but you have a different start and end point and cross different parts of the level each time, making each mission feel fresh whilst saving development time. Aside from big stages like this, they should include some straight running levels like the Unleashed ones, although perhaps a bit shorter and slower, as well as some quickfire levels that have Sonic permanently in a ball shape, ala Monkey Ball.

That's another thing they should bring back. Sonic should be able to both run like an athlete and roll like a marble, as he did in the Genesis games, with both of them having notably different physics. Just running and running gets a little boring.

Finally they need to have some sort of points or awards system to help bring some 2D elements properly into 3D. The loop-de-loop for example. In a free-roaming, physics-based 3D world with no pre-programmed movement sequences (like the fixed movement around loops in other 3D games), what is the incentive to run around a loop instead of just crossing through it from the start point to the end point? We need some sort of reward for this kind of thing.

That's all I've really got for now.

[SuperStingray]

Those are the "bad" gimmicks to me and should never be in a Sonic game. Huge monsters as bosses are the biggest cliche in video games ever, in my opinion. Maybe it'll attract your childish minds but not mine. I like the robots, machines better. There's actually nothing wrong with Chip himself, but when he turned out being a godlike creature, I gave up. Might sound a bit ridiculous but..yeah. It's ridiculous..and stupid.

I know people have always existed in Sonic's world but things like love realtionships and other crap like that between Sonic and a female human character is the worst sh*t ever. I played Sonic Adventure 2 for the first time in my life few weeks ago. My ears still hurt after hearing the music. Same with Heroes... Voice acting included.

What comes to Robotnik..

The monsters are really more of a trope than a cliche if you ask me, but I'm not willing to browse for the name right now. And it worked for a while, but now it's just too predictable.

And I thought when Chip turned out to be a God it was actually a great part of his development. It allowed him to look at his own purpose from a new perspective, but Sonic taught him not to change from the old one.

As for Sonic's love relationship with Elise, at heart I don't think it was any worse than any other implied romantic relations the series has had, but what drove me away was the completely cliched nature of the story, the very different proportions between them and how the relationship just made Sonic look like a total wimp.

And the music is probably one of the things that keep me coming back to the series; it's one of the few things I think has improved since the old games. I'm not saying the old games are WORSE in the music department; a lot of them are actually better melodically, but the direction it has taken as far as music goes is better to me. Because most of the main characters have a genre and one or more theme songs associated with them, it really gives their character more depth and appeal. The only music I really thought was dull was Sonic 06's overall soundtrack. It's not that it was bad, it just wasn't diverse or stimulating.

post

Edited March 15, 2009 by SuperStingray

[AdventChild]

An M&S platformer or RPG where it have Bowser and Eggman taking over both worlds an such.

A Sonic RPG should play more like Star Ocean or ToS b/c it is more faster, has more action and plays alot like a fighting game. It fits the Sonic franchise more than the turn-based system with QTE or reaction commands.

Also, a Sonic-only platformer with the SA1 or SU gameplay style with exploration, little to no QTEs and able to backtrack with Eggman as the final boss with a simple story. Do I need to say more?

Well, I had an idea about an Alternate Universe series, but don't know how it'll work out. It isn't like the Storybook series well, maybe sort of, but the stories are highly original and each game might involve different genres like one would be RTS, another RPG, and another mystery puzzle game. Also, everyone's names have to change including Sonic's as well.

Another thing would be, obviously, hardly any use of gimmicks.

[BlueFlare]

The monsters are really more of a trope than a cliche if you ask me, but I'm not willing to browse for the name right now. And it worked for a while, but now it's just too predictable.

And I thought when Chip turned out to be a God it was actually a great part of his development. It allowed him to look at his own purpose from a new perspective, but Sonic taught him not to change from the old one.

As for Sonic's love relationship with Elise, at heart I don't think it was any worse than any other implied romantic relations the series has had, but what drove me away was the completely cliched nature of the story, the very different proportions between them and how the relationship just made Sonic look like a total wimp.

And the music is probably one of the things that keep me coming back to the series; it's one of the few things I think has improved since the old games. I'm not saying the old games are WORSE in the music department; a lot of them are actually better melodically, but the direction it has taken as far as music goes is better to me. Because most of the main characters have a genre and one or more theme songs associated with them, it really gives their character more depth and appeal. The only music I really thought was dull was Sonic 06's overall soundtrack. It's not that it was bad, it just wasn't diverse or stimulating.

Well, at least I've seen enough huge monsters as final bosses in video games. I mean, a lot. That's why I see those as a cliche. On the other hand, if we only had huge robots as final bosses wouldn't that be a cliche as well? It probably would.

I actually don't know either to like Chip or not. He was kind of cool but the whole Gaia thing didn't realle assure or excite me. I liked him more than I disliked. At least better than many other new character in Sonic games lately. Still, Sonic 06's story is horrible. Elise, too.

The music in Sonic games is one of those things that keeps me playing them again and again. This mostly concerns the older games's music. Some newer games like Unleashed had some really good songs. I like to listen to those every now and then. Anyway, I still can't stand the style of music they made for Adventure 2, Heroes and SatBK. Those aren't good treat to ears. Haven't heard any of Secret Rings music so don't know what to say about it. Remember, these are only my opinions, so don't blow up.

Edited March 16, 2009 by PeTeRpAn

[Gamenerd]

Okay, I've been looking over the previous post I made in this thread, and whilst it does present the right idea, I don't think everything I said in it was strictly true.

For example, going the Mario route and proving big 3D non-linear virtual playgrounds. It's not an entirely terrible idea in concept - Sonic could use a little less linearity - but execution of a fully open world like that in Sonic could cause some pretty unstable results. However, that's not to say the idea is inherently wrong; the idea of "reusing" stages is exactly what Sonic needs, only not in the fashion I mentioned. I'm going to once again redirect you all to look at Sonic Unleashed.

Let's say Sonic Unleashed was just pure Daytime level goodness. It would be abysmally short. Each daytime level is a short burst of entertainment and enjoyment. But they're pretty uneconomical aren't they? They have these entire great big cities hand-rendered with Global Illumintaion applied, and yet the stage itself is basically a cross-section of this amazing environment. What good is that? Why even bother rendering these outrageous scenes just for show? Now I'm not saying you should have full freedom to run through these environments, because that would simply be far too much work, and most of the environment would be flat-out USELESS. What I am saying though, is what if they could use the same big environments 3 or 4 times? Arguably the biggest time-waster in stage development is making these backgrounds. The actual playable areas are mostly sparse buildings, repeated platforms, long stretchy paths and the like. What if they could create multiple of these stage designs superimposed over one environment? They could have 3 full-blown "acts" (not like some of the short acts we saw in Unleashed) for each daytime stage without much effort at all. They could also extend this replayability by making the most of these 3 acts of each stage - for example, there could be three extra "acts" that are simply the first three acts but reversed, starting from the end, with boost pads reversed. Then they could provide different play settings for these stages, such as a mode where you must compete against a CPU "ghost Sonic", or a play mode in which you must complete the stage without dropping below a certain stage. They just need to make some 12 or 13 stages (since they've probably gotten used to the Hedgehog Engine it'll probably be easier to create stages) each with 3 acts that use the same basic polygon background environment, and then they can squeeze so much out of these environments that they won't need any (or much) filler gameplay to bulk the game up.

I'd like to see the PS3/360 Unleashed physics engine used again, albeit with some changes. First and foremost would be to tighten up the unarguably loose controls. Secondly, I'd limit the boost somewhat if not remove it altogether, because it's getting pretty out of hand. Lastly I'd map Homing Attack back onto the Jump Button, to make way for a roll button. At a standstill, the roll button would cause a charge-up of the classic Spin-Dash, whilst pressing the roll button during running at high-speed would cause you to roll up into a ball and keep moving without slowdown. In a ball, you move faster and can plough through badniks, but your grip goes almost completely.

So the general structure of the game would be to have 12 main "zones", each with 3 acts, and 3 "reverse" acts, with each act giving you an emblem, and a certain amount of emblems necessary to unlock each new level. Aside from this would be a fair amount of side stages, but nothing that entirely disrupts the game flow. I'm thinking that there could be some special stages that are essentially the Sonic 3D Blast (Saturn) special stages but with better graphics, as well as each Zone having three "secret" levels. These "secrets" are essentially like big, extra-difficult Super Monkey Ball stages floating above the zone environment, complete with checkerboards, corkscrews and testing challenges of finger desterity. You wouldn't be rolled into a ball like in Monkey Ball but you'd have to navigate it with Sonic's somewhat loose controls. Other ideas I had were the ability to play multiplayer races across the zones, possibly the return of the Chao Garden as a fun-but-unnecessary side-game, and the unlocking of Unleash-ified retro stages (purely to wank off the old and bitter fans who will accept nothing less than pure Genesis action).

All-in-all, I basically want all of the good things from Unleashed and none of the bad. If they stop being so impractical with stage design, and maybe use those hand-crafted, time-consuming background environments more than once, or better, just use Procedural Generation techniques to create the areas you can't interact with, then they'd have plenty of time to work on a full game worth of daytime stages, with a few hub worlds, platform-heavy secret stages and old-skool special stages thrown in to break up the sheer speed. They could also throw in a few characters that have minor differences to Sonic, just to mix things up a bit.

But yeah, with a decent development cycle and better use of resources, none of what I've asked for is entirely out of question.

[123654]

Those are the "bad" gimmicks to me and should never be in a Sonic game. Huge monsters as bosses are the biggest cliche in video games ever, in my opinion. Maybe it'll attract your childish minds but not mine. I like the robots, machines better. There's actually nothing wrong with Chip himself, but when he turned out being a godlike creature, I gave up. Might sound a bit ridiculous but..yeah. It's ridiculous..and stupid.

Excuse me?

[ArtFenix]

Yeah, Chip as a GOD is extremely stupid. EXTREMELY!

But i would't call "monsters of da week" childish.Actually, they are on the same level as robots, i don't see the difference. It might have been "robots of the week".. Do you think it would be beter that way?..I don't.

[Blazey Firekitty]

Would be kinda fun to have Fang show up in a Contra/Gunstar Heroes style side scrolling shooter.

[BlueFlare]

Excuse me?

Yup, under-aged kids are more likely get stoked on things like that than a bit older players. Not everyone, though.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Yup, under-aged kids are more likely get stoked on things like that than a bit older players. Not everyone, though.

PeTeRpAn, he was talking about how you seemed to offend him when you refered to him as childish. You said "your childish minds".

Edited March 17, 2009 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[BlueFlare]

PeTeRpAn, he was talking about how you seemed to offend him when you refered to him as childish. You said "your childish minds".

Aw, I apologize. I should have said it only attracts very young players. Didn't mean to offend anyone, though.

[sonic_jam]

Sonic unleashed style, only sonic, knuckles and tails though.

3d sections exact same as Sonic Adventure 1

2d sections same as sonic 3&K

(same pyshics i mean). easy as lol

[123654]

Aw, I apologize. I should have said it only attracts very young players. Didn't mean to offend anyone, though.

That's still sort of stereotyping based on age.

[BlueFlare]

That's still sort of stereotyping based on age.

I don't care and this topic isn't even about it. Please, do not provoke anymore.

[Badnik Zero]

I've got another game idea I put up here a little while ago.

It's a Sonic sports game inspired by NBA Jam. Basketball, because I think it's more fast paced than other sports, and no other character has claimed it yet. Basically, it's b-ball with signature moves and Sonic flair. Elevated hoops, unique courts, ramps and tricking for more height on your jump, and all that good stuff.

I was thinking about how NBA Jam used small teams and less rules, with turbo and fire shots to make it more than just a regular sports game, and how Sonic would fit that pretty well. Make the game a little faster, a little more extravagant than usual. Like a court would have ramps for Sonic to dash 50 feet up and dunk (I think of the flashes from the audience in NBA Jam here) but then maybe Tails takes the ball from him in midair. Certain courts could have themes like Sonic levels, that slightly change the game. Reduced gravity, Mystic Ruins themes like Aztec handball courts, slippery floors. Anything you can think of.

Add some tricks for turbo, and typical Sonic character moves, and it gets really crazy. Rings could play a part, but I haven't thought of how yet. I know sports spinoffs aren't really ideal for a series unless they're great, but I think this idea is made for Sonic.

Edited March 17, 2009 by Badnikz

[Picchi]

Sonic in Blunderland for the Sonic Storybook series.

Urban legend goes that anyone whose read the book is never seen again. Sonic somehow comes across the rumors and suspicious goes to check it out. However, someone's already taken it: The "Alice" of the story. Eventually he locates her, and when they open the book they find themselves in a lush, magical, and at times scary world that is dictated by the Evil Queen of Hearts. After discovering that the missing people are actually captives of this place, Sonic and Alice go on a journey to faraway lands, train to fight the queen and her minions and get numerous upgrades in order to reach the last chapter. I'd love to see the graphics for a game like this and the gameplay would be pretty interesting to see since Wonderland is nonsensical and built on fantasy.

More concrete details later. I'm tiiiired. XD

Edited March 17, 2009 by Picchi

[Indigo Rush]

I made a topic exactly like this before the Great Wipe of 09, so here it is in quotations.

It's pretty clear that people are in disagreement about how Sonic should be handled from now on, and we all have our opinions on how the series should be, whether we're focusing on gameplay, music, character usage, and so on. The fanbase is split to a degree that Sega and Sonic Team can't possible please everybody. I think it is possible, however, and I'll throw in my two rings cents about how the series (main, spinoff and whatnot) should flow. Please note that I'm attempting to start a topic where we all share our opinions and ideas on the matter, and help each other out in hopes that we can come to a basic consensus on what would help the series the best, because even though Unleashed was better than anything we've seen in a while, it's still far from perfect. I'm basically going to cover the most important aspects of the franchise, starting from gameplay, and I'll shift into how the level design could work, and then gradually move onto our favorite topic, the gimmicks. I'll then focus on how the characters are handled throughout the series, and how the storyline could work. Then I'll lastly take a look at music and character themes. Just so we're clear, I'm not trying to start the whole fanboy rant on SONIC IS DEAD HERES HOW TO REVIVE HIM! Because he's not, and I'm not saying this will. This is just my opinion on how Sonic could work, and how it will pay homage to the critically acclaimed classic series and Adventure series. If you have any other ideas, once again I'll say this, go ahead and say them, and I would also appreciate criticism on my ideas.

Right, the gameplay. Normally I'm an advocate of the Adventure style of all 3D roaming, but after witnessing Sonic Unleashed, it seems I've found a diamond in the rough. The 3D to 2D style could work wonders if implemented in a certain light. Not to say Unleashed was bad, it wasn't. But it's not what I thought to be what could make Sonic better. Imagine Sonic Adventure gameplay for 3D, then a transition to a Sonic Advance style of gameplay. Notice how I didn't say Sonic Rush. Or Sonic Advance 2. I've been playing the GBA series lately, and I think I can see where Sega started going happy with the speed (lol). Sonic Advance was basically Sonic 3 & Knuckles with a standard attack and dash panels. You may be asking what was wrong with Unleashed's gameplay? Well, it was too freaking fast. The acceleration was wacky and everyone was boost happy. If fans are wanting a return to form, that's not the way to go. Sure, it's better than Sonic 2006, but why should one of the greatest platformers settle for just above average? Moving on, I'll explain what I want to see in the games. First off, Sonic in every title. No surprises there, and I would like to see two or three alternate characters that are NOT optional. Yeah, you read right. Not optional. I'm not following the mainstream here. Now before you get your flaming keyboards ready, please note that I haven't even discussed the core gameplay that ALL characters should have. I'll break it down into 2D and 3D, just to make it simple, then I'll work on what Sonic should have, since he's the main character and all.

I feel that Sonic Adventure had the right idea with how the free roaming aspect should work. Sonic, Tails and Knuckles had a certain acceleration and top speed that wasn't insanely fast and was easy to control. Unleashed's 3D roaming is near impossible as the acceleration rate to Sonic's top speed is almost immediate. I think that the speed for free roaming for each character should be at LEAST the speed of Sonic in Sonic Adventure. As for gameplay that each character has, they have a few core aspects that are necessary to keep it a Sonic game. First off, each character needs to be able to maintain a high speed when a their top speed. This can be equal to Sonic in his Adventure outings. I think I hear some people saying "WHAT NO ONE IS AS FAST AS SONIC YOU SUCK." Yeah. Sonic would have a higher top speed than he did in Sonic Adventure, but it won't be as fast as Sonic Unleashed. If I haven't mentioned this yet, there should be NO BOOST. Moving on, another element each character should boast is the ability to do a rolling jump, and the ability to spin while in motion. For example, you're Knuckles, and you're running at a certain speed. You press the attack button, then you roll into a ball, ala Sonic Adventure. When you come across a hill in rolling mode, regardless of the character, you gain speed faster than if you were on foot. This is an attempt to restore the whole "physics" argument that people have pointed out. So far, we have a relatively fast speed, rolling jumps and rolling on the ground. This is the basic mode of play. Each character has a build on that which makes them different. But even though they are, they are still speedy, and the core gameplay is still there. And of course we'll have more timed platforming since the speed isn't the dominating force. When we come to a 2D section, the acceleration rate and top speed is the same as previously mentioned (duh) but since there's no boost and insane speed, there's room for even more intricate platforming. This is pretty much akin to that of Sonic Advance, just a tad bit faster. No complaints there, I think. I liked Sonic Advance. (Opinion)

Now that we have the core gameplay set out, lets focus on SONIC. Sonic has the ability to run super freaking fast. This makes his top speed higher than the other characters. There is a general control layout that I think would be best (for all characters): A (jump) B (attack) and the control stick to move. Aside from the camera, that's all we need. From there we have tons of combos (both 2D and 3D) For instance, as Sonic, using A twice will use the famous homing attack. A and then B will do a bounce attack. Holding B will charge a spindash. Tapping B while standing will do a sliding kick/soumersault. Tapping B while moving will put Sonic in ball mode. Doing most of these moves with other characters will be different, though. (A and A for Tails will let him fly, A and B will let him do an air strike thing or something) So, you get the basic idea. Core gameplay, some different moves. Difference between other characters and Sonic, is he can do the ring dash, spindash, and wall jumping (not sure how that would be implemented though, I'll work on this later) Now that we have this established, let's make sure we don't have 9 playable characters in each game.

I figured the best idea to handle the massive glut of characters is to spread their playability across a bunch of main titles. For instance, the first one would have Sonic, Tails, Knuckles and Amy. The second would star Sonic, Knuckles, Shadow and Rouge, the third Sonic, Tails, Blaze and Silver, and so on. As long as the characters are fitting to the story, and the gameplay isn't 100% identical to each other, it should work well, IN THEORY. If course, there should be NPCs, with Tails being in each game even if he's not playable, same with Amy and whoever has something to contribute to the plot. (That being said, I wouldn't mind seeing Prof. Pickle again.) Also, I realize that some characters have very similar gameplay styles, but I'm sure there are ways it can be varied. (Like, Shadow has a teleporting air action instead of a homing attack, or Rouge has a different style of kicking and can't dig) Small variations like this can make a huge different in gameplay. Lets say that there's a shortcut for Knuckles and Rouge to take by climbing up a wall, but there's a soft patch of dirt in the center of the obstacle. Knuckles can dig through it, but Rouge has to climb all the way over, or for Shadow, he's not fast enough to run across a body of water, but he can teleport to places that are too far for Sonic to jump, or he can knock down tough walls with his combat moves. As we bring in more titles, they'll have to use other characters. Heck, Big the Cat is welcome. Yes, Big. No, I'm not crazy. He can run fast, look at him in Heroes. He also has a unique air action with his umbrella, he has a unique A + B move (belly flop) and his fishing rod can be used for combat. He can roll, and yeah. Like I said, as long as the core gameplay is intact, any character is welcome. (Big FTW!)

Moving on to level design in general, we have too many damn bottomless pits nowadays, even in the 2D outings. First off, take them out. NOW. Less common, more in the last levels, whatever. I don't want to die for moving backwards on a loop. Since I mentioned loops, I remember a topic started by Diogenes (I think) which brought up the question, "if there was a 3D loop, what would stop Sonic from moving AROUND it?" Good point. He also brought up the idea that there would be an incentive to use it, like, I don't know, advancing in the level? Maybe the loop is used to get to a higher part of the lever or something. I'm not a level designer, so I'm not sure if this is credible enough. What is credible is the use of fun little gimmicks within the levels. NO NOT WEREHOG YOU STOOGES. I'm talking a little fun thing within a level, and it's specific TO that level, and I guess they all are used at some point in the final level or something. (Snowboarding in the ice level, vine swinging in the jungle level, underwater play in the water level, etc.)I could go on. But let's start looking at other game elements that need bringing back or at least need honorable mention. First off, what pissed me off in Unleashed was the lack of item boxes. I suppose at those speeds its impossible to hop on a TV monitor for 20 rings when you can just press right. Since we're planning on numbing the speed a little bit, we have room for more of these powerups. The Super Ring, Invincibility, Shields (elemental ones from Sonic 3 please ) Speed Shoes (PLEASE?) and of course the 1up. The next main focus on design is the enemies badniks. They need more variety then those darn Egg Pawns. And it's just a personal preference, but I prefer the animals inside of the robots. Just a throwback to the classics. Wouldn't hurt, and a great excuse to bring the roboticizing capsule back into the levels. Other things like sign posts, check points, springs, and spikes also should be implemented. (Not that they already aren't, just saying) The ranking system isn't half bad of an idea, but maybe we can bring back the trick system from SA2 and mix it in? Combo moves, making impressive feats and jumping off of ramps is always welcome in my book. Doesn't detract too much from the core gameplay, and each character can pull it off.

Sonic Adventure had a snowboarding minigame, a Chao Garden, a plane shooter, a racing game, and even a freaking whack-a-mole for Amy. I think we can have some bonus stages in the games. However, I think they should be akin to each character. Examples, Sonic has the Special Stage. In this, his fastest speed is implimented. His speed is faster than regular gameplay, giving speed freaks the rush that they want so much! Think of Unleashed's straight forwards "3D" parts of the games, with the side stepping and maybe even the boost. Yeah yeah, I said no boost, IN REGULAR GAMEPLAY. But yeah, moving on. Tails can have his plane shooter, Knuckles, I guess a punch-out knock off, and if Espio was playable, I suppose a stealth minigame would work. You pretty much get the drill. It's optional and out of the way. Except maybe once to advance the plot and to give the player a taste of alternate gameplay, keeping it from being boring. (Also for Special Stages, I think they should be completed to unlock the final ending along with completing the other stories, just my idea)

And while I'm bringing up the whole final ending bit, I should say my piece on story. I think the story should be a mix of Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Heroes. A light motif with an epic mission, and a serious ending. Some WELL THOUGHT OUT AND NOT SERIES ALTERING plot twists, and a spot for all the characters to shine. Also, more than one villain is okay, as long as Eggman is out on top in the end. I wouldn't mind fighting a biological monster that EGGMAN created, or fighting against Nack/Fang who was hired by Eggman, or against Metal Sonic who was made by Eggman. Or Eggman. But yeah, keep him as the main villain, and things should be alright.

Okay... now music. I have strong opinions on how the music should be laid out. I always always ALWAYS loved the original Sonic theme. After hearing The World Adventure, I can't help but want an orchestral adaption of the original theme to be present as the series theme. In addition, I like the idea of each game having it's own vocal track, and each character having their own track as well. Sonic? He changes a lot. But I think It Doesn't Matter is the best fit. I actually am not sure what Sonic's theme should be as a character, and wether or not it should change or stay the same. It should be different from the game's theme and the series' theme, that's for sure. And of course these tracks are fitting to the characters themselves. Tails is pop rock, Shadow has something that Julien-K would do, Silver has DoaA, Knux has Unknown from ME, and so on. Now, level music should be upbeat as well should the menu themes and system background tunes. The music for each level should sound like it came from the actual level, like a Christmasy theme for the ice level, or a jungle-like sound for the mandatory green level at the beginning.

So, these are my general ideas. I have no clue if everyone else agrees with me, but I'm almost certain that it's better than Sonic 2006. And now it's your turn to add your opinions and ideas. Have fun, and remember, no Drama '09.

Some of my opinions have changed, but basically everything is laid out there. Enjoy.

Edited March 17, 2009 by Indigo Rush

[SykoTech]

Okay, I've been looking over the previous post I made in this thread, and whilst it does present the right idea, I don't think everything I said in it was strictly true.

For example, going the Mario route and proving big 3D non-linear virtual playgrounds. It's not an entirely terrible idea in concept - Sonic could use a little less linearity - but execution of a fully open world like that in Sonic could cause some pretty unstable results. However, that's not to say the idea is inherently wrong; the idea of "reusing" stages is exactly what Sonic needs, only not in the fashion I mentioned. I'm going to once again redirect you all to look at Sonic Unleashed.

Let's say Sonic Unleashed was just pure Daytime level goodness. It would be abysmally short. Each daytime level is a short burst of entertainment and enjoyment. But they're pretty uneconomical aren't they? They have these entire great big cities hand-rendered with Global Illumintaion applied, and yet the stage itself is basically a cross-section of this amazing environment. What good is that? Why even bother rendering these outrageous scenes just for show? Now I'm not saying you should have full freedom to run through these environments, because that would simply be far too much work, and most of the environment would be flat-out USELESS. What I am saying though, is what if they could use the same big environments 3 or 4 times? Arguably the biggest time-waster in stage development is making these backgrounds. The actual playable areas are mostly sparse buildings, repeated platforms, long stretchy paths and the like. What if they could create multiple of these stage designs superimposed over one environment? They could have 3 full-blown "acts" (not like some of the short acts we saw in Unleashed) for each daytime stage without much effort at all. They could also extend this replayability by making the most of these 3 acts of each stage - for example, there could be three extra "acts" that are simply the first three acts but reversed, starting from the end, with boost pads reversed. Then they could provide different play settings for these stages, such as a mode where you must compete against a CPU "ghost Sonic", or a play mode in which you must complete the stage without dropping below a certain stage. They just need to make some 12 or 13 stages (since they've probably gotten used to the Hedgehog Engine it'll probably be easier to create stages) each with 3 acts that use the same basic polygon background environment, and then they can squeeze so much out of these environments that they won't need any (or much) filler gameplay to bulk the game up.

I'd like to see the PS3/360 Unleashed physics engine used again, albeit with some changes. First and foremost would be to tighten up the unarguably loose controls. Secondly, I'd limit the boost somewhat if not remove it altogether, because it's getting pretty out of hand. Lastly I'd map Homing Attack back onto the Jump Button, to make way for a roll button. At a standstill, the roll button would cause a charge-up of the classic Spin-Dash, whilst pressing the roll button during running at high-speed would cause you to roll up into a ball and keep moving without slowdown. In a ball, you move faster and can plough through badniks, but your grip goes almost completely.

So the general structure of the game would be to have 12 main "zones", each with 3 acts, and 3 "reverse" acts, with each act giving you an emblem, and a certain amount of emblems necessary to unlock each new level. Aside from this would be a fair amount of side stages, but nothing that entirely disrupts the game flow. I'm thinking that there could be some special stages that are essentially the Sonic 3D Blast (Saturn) special stages but with better graphics, as well as each Zone having three "secret" levels. These "secrets" are essentially like big, extra-difficult Super Monkey Ball stages floating above the zone environment, complete with checkerboards, corkscrews and testing challenges of finger desterity. You wouldn't be rolled into a ball like in Monkey Ball but you'd have to navigate it with Sonic's somewhat loose controls. Other ideas I had were the ability to play multiplayer races across the zones, possibly the return of the Chao Garden as a fun-but-unnecessary side-game, and the unlocking of Unleash-ified retro stages (purely to wank off the old and bitter fans who will accept nothing less than pure Genesis action).

All-in-all, I basically want all of the good things from Unleashed and none of the bad. If they stop being so impractical with stage design, and maybe use those hand-crafted, time-consuming background environments more than once, or better, just use Procedural Generation techniques to create the areas you can't interact with, then they'd have plenty of time to work on a full game worth of daytime stages, with a few hub worlds, platform-heavy secret stages and old-skool special stages thrown in to break up the sheer speed. They could also throw in a few characters that have minor differences to Sonic, just to mix things up a bit.

But yeah, with a decent development cycle and better use of resources, none of what I've asked for is entirely out of question.

Nice job mapping out the details of my dream Sonic game.

Though I personally would keep the Boost the way it is, just make it more of an optional move. For the most part it was, but it was a necessity when it came to the robot chase sequences and running on water. So I'd change up those parts so that the Boost doesn't become forced upon the player. With the Special Stages back, perhaps it could be applied to Super Sonic only as a reward.

But anyway, epic post.

[KirbyGamer91]

Here's a good idea for a Sonic game (At least I hope it is):

Sonic Turbo Adventure

Console: WiiWare (And maybe PSN and XBLA)

ESRB Rating: E or E10+

Playable Characters: Sonic, Tails, Cream, Mighty, and maybe Knuckles

PLOT

I'm not sure what the plot would be like, but I do know for sure that it should be light in tone like the classic games. And that I want Eggman to be the bad guy, and be portrayed as a comical villain like Sonic Unleashed. Amy, the Chaotix, and maybe the Babylon Rouges could be supporting characters.

GRAPHICS

16-bit graphics similar to Sonic 3 & Knuckles, but modified to match the Sonic Adventure designs of Sonic, Eggman, and so fourth.

SOUND

Next-gen soundtrack with music from the 3D games from Sonic Adventure to Sonic Unleashed, and remixes of classic tunes ranging from Sonic the Hedgehog 2, to lesser known games like Knuckles' Chaotix. And there might be voices (Whether there is hand drawn anime style cutscenes, or for simply during gameplay), but I don't care whether Sega of America gets the old voice actors back or if they retain the 4Kids cast, just as long as the game itself is good.

GAMEPLAY

Genesis/Mega Drive style Sonic gameplay, but with perhaps some new additions, like rails, Chao Gardens, and others.