Why I hardly have faith in the Sonic franchise now

[iambitter21]

40 minutes ago, batson said:

Meh, I definitely think Sonic 1 is more fun than Sonic Adventure 2, but each to their own. The Sonic and Shadow stages in Adventure 2 are great, but the fact that the game forces you to play mediocre mech stages and boring treassure hunting stages brings the experience down.

that's fair, I liked at least 7 of the treasure hunting stages (pumpkin hill scarred me for life, and aquatic mine took what pumpkin hill did wrong and amplifies it), and the mech stages are my least favorite of the 3, but I still get a kick out of both of them. it doesn't take away the experience, they just mix it up.

[Scritch the Cat]

18 hours ago, Rowesh said:

(First active post, greetings.)

I can throw my two cents as a relatively newer fan: as an outsider growing up in the 2010's, Sonic was easily a joke franchise to me most of the time. It had charisma and was certainly a household name of respect from parents, but watching the series closely through (threacherous) youtube reviewers and comedy videos, the reputation wasn't quite upstanding. Sonic 06 and later Sonic Boom: RoL certainly stained me watching the horrendous glitches and yikes, the cringe scene of dead Sonic being kissed by a human girl...

Years later I find myself interested in it, contemplating this beautiful mess. It's great to be able to experience all eras of Sonic the Hedgehog so far, and I guess I can only pity those who feel sad watching the franchise fall into dismay for years. For all the janky games, weird cartoons and cool but sometimes bizarre comics, I can definitely feel the "cool edge" Sonic has held in many of his incarnations, and I can only say I'm dazzled by it.

Now, if I have faith in Sonic? Kind of. I'd find it difficult to believe in SEGA's management and Sonic Team's questionable competence coming from this rotten history. But frankly? Sonic has something few other franchises have: It's volatile, unpredictable and kinda exciting. Seeing from my interpretation how Sonic began as a staunch rival to Mario, went through many changes and adaptations to keep up with SEGA's goals, went through so many creative minds and was changed by the fans. My only fear, really, is Sonic becoming boring and stagnant, which kinda is happening in this era. Regardless, as I said, Sonic is unpredictable, for better or worse. I just hope it can keep being interesting. 

I agree with you about Sonic being a beautiful mess, but you aren’t really being fair to the Mario series, which since the late 1990s has managed to experiment with all sorts of varied ideas and produce good games in spite of it all.  Which sort people prefer may vary, but the only out-and-out stinkers to Mario’s name have been the YouTube pooped games they allowed other companies to make, and they’ve discontinued that policy.  Nintendo won’t let a Mario game come out that is blatantly unfinished and broken.

[BadBehavior]

On 7/22/2020 at 4:44 PM, DCFCSonic20 said:

I have multiple issues with this statement you just made. I'll breakdown my points one by one for you.

 

1. "Has multiple gameplay styles, none of which are remotely fun." This is entirely subjective, someone who primarily plays first person shooters like Call of Duty would be bored to tears if he had to play a 3D platformer. Because it's something completely different to what they like, and most likely wouldn't like it. It's not the type of game they enjoy. I got a few kicks in some stages with 3D Sonic, boosting along can be pretty exilerating in my opinion. It was fun at points. I hated the way Classic Sonic played and the Avatar was very clunky to control. The gameplay has major flaws in having the level geometry and stage design compliment the gameplay. However, flaws doesn't make it boring. People enjoy Sonic 06, which they admit is very flawed in its gameplay but still like it, as well as in Shadow the Hedgehog. You may find that boring, other people enjoy it. Hence the point, that you saying it's boring is objective. When it's not. It's subjective.

2. "A story that takes itself too seriously." Since when? It just has a darker and intriguing premise, which thanks to crummy writing that doesn't make it serious enough. There's not enough depth, the major flaws are right there in the writing. I couldn't count how many times Sonic has cheesy lines about friendship or making stupid jokes. Sonic 06 took itself far too seriously, but there is no comparison to be made to Forces in regards to seriousness as they are at polar opposite ends of that spectrum.

3. "Has Sonic's "shitty friends."" And that's a bad thing? Everyone aside from the main cast has been put on the backburner since Sonic 06. Not including any spinoffs or the Storybook games. Sonic Unleashed, had Chip as the main sidekick with Tails being there every now and then along with Amy. No Knuckles, No Shadow. Sonic Colours had no one aside from Sonic, Tails and Eggman. No Knuckles, Amy or Shadow. Generations, to its credit had them. But did nothing to actually give them a role. They were primarily there for anniversary sakes. Sonic Lost World, had Tails with Sonic the entire time. And Amy and Knuckles back on Earth/Mobius. In that game, both Amy and Knuckles had no role to play in the story aside from just being there. 

Sonic Forces actually used most of his friends, with the exception of Blaze (seriously where is she?) . And gave them, a solid role in the story.  Knuckles was the leader of the resistance alongside Amy. Shadow was on a mission to infiltrate Eggman's base with Rouge and Omega. Silver tracked down Infinite to Luminous Forest. The Avatar went to go and save Sonic from the Death Egg. The fact that Forces has the balls to use most of their cast to significance in the plot, and you to claim they are just his "shitty friends" is completely ignorant. 

 

Forces isn't actually a bad game, it's just terribly mediocre. It's not even close to being broken like the 15th anniversary game Sonic 06. 

Well, any game that you play over and over again will be bound to get boring eventually. 

Like I said to another person replying: I was just trying to challenge the assertion that Forces is somehow "better" than 06 despite the two games sharing many similarities. "06 bad cos multiple characters/ dark story blah de blah de blaaah". When this game has the same "problems" and is still just as bad.

Say what you will about 06, at least it takes more than 2 hours to beat. And you have to do more than hold down the Square button to beat it.

And no Green Hill or Chemical Plant zone so 06 shoots up like a thousand spaces in my tier list for that.

[HPX]

As someone who fell in love with Sonic specifically for its shonen edge carrying themes of anti-authoritarianism, anti-militarism, environmentalism, forgiveness and, yes, friendship, I haven't found these qualities in any meaningful degree from this franchise for over the last decade. I am talking strictly about the games here, I have little to no interest in peripheral media outside of the original Sonic X and the OVA.

From what I've gathered, Sonic as a brand seems to have always had a friction between its Japanese sensibilities and its predominantly Western audience. There'd always been a hard split in presentation of the character between the two territories and, while things started to get more consolidated around the Adventure era, this tension never really went away. It came to a head in Sonic '06 which, to my mind, was really everything Sonic was always about in terms of vibe and presentation. But with how that game got thoroughly screwed and the resulting fallout, that tension snapped and Sonic fell squarely into the West's court, as Western critics had been the most vocal, most volatile, hyperbolic, etc.

Following that, we got Unleashed which suddenly presented itself as if Sonic were a premier Disney/Pixar character in a whimsical new world full of orchestrated music and super deformed human characters, seemingly completely eschewing the lore and characters that had been built up since the first game. They tried to reinvent the character and distance itself as much as it could from all of the anime spirit much of the Western audience found so unpalatable in '06, and so this marks the point where I become increasingly unable to recognize the character and the world I fell in love with. Black Knight was really the last gasp of Sonic's shonen spirit.

I realize there are many people who like or even prefer the games from this era, and I respect that, but I have to say I cringe every time I see a wisp or Zavok and the Sinister Six or whatever the koopalings are called. I cringe whenever I hear Roger's Sonic. I hated the movie and found it to fundamentally not understand what this series was originally about. As much as I like Sonic Rush, I don't believe the boost had any business becoming the standard model for Sonic design, as it's only really stripped the premise of the character down to its barest minimum, only without the nuance of letting players master Sonic's movement and physics, thereby enabling player expressivity outside of "choose which lane you want to swap to."

Sonic's a character with limitless potential--unlike any other video game character I can think of. And I love to see so much of that potential realized in fanworks. Aside from replaying my favorite games in the series over and over again, seeing the love and creativity of the community is what's kept me here, despite all my unhappiness and doubts. The promise of this franchise, the premise at its heart is what's kept me hoping to maybe one day see Sonic again.

All that said, though, I think my interest in the franchise lives or dies by the next game. It's exhausting feeling like I care more than SEGA and Sonic Team. Frankly, a corporation doesn't deserve the amount of love Sonic gets from its community, myself included.

[Scritch the Cat]

To HPX: I agree about the boost.  I liked the movie but you have a point about it reinventing Sonic so he no longer has any real edge from taking divisive stands on things.  I think the Wisps might have a place in the series but what they’re replacing makes me resent them.

But beyond that, the narrative vibes you see as so necessarily important aren’t really all that important to many other people, and I think you’re overstating the degree to which it epitomizes the series’ design ethos.  I don’t really think that Sonic was conceived to be “shonen”.  It was conceived to be appealing, but broad viewing of the series’ history doesn’t leave me with the idea that it was ever bound to just a few tropes defining that appeal; let alone within one country.  Sonic was designed more with western sensibilities in mind, and sure; it would reference Dragon Ball early on, but it also referenced Star Wars early on.  Also, many people would struggle to see Sonic 06 as part of the same heavily animesque continuum that the Adventure games brought in.  Sonic HIMSELF looks shonen in that game, and maybe the plot is (as if that’s a defense of its plot), but the world and human characters of that game are often blandly realistic.  Sonic Unleashed wasn’t so much westernizing the series as it was remembering it was generally rather cartoony.  Also the Deadly Six were based on oni, so you can’t genuinely say the series is always trying to be less Japanese.

[HPX]

Yeah, I've realized I'm in the minority on stanning shonen Sonic.

My impression was always that Sega wanted a mascot that would appeal to Western audiences, with 'cool' being the driving guideline, and Sonic Team naturally only knew how to realize that through their own cultural lexicon. From the beginning, Japanese video games always had manga and anime to draw from, and Sonic was no exception; Super Sonic alone is the obvious analogue, but Naka has stated that even the blue sphere special stages were directly inspired by one of the Dragon Ball Z ending sequences, to say nothing of the Chaos Emeralds. I don't see how it also being inspired by Star Wars somehow negates the predominate culture that birthed Sonic and the narrative and aesthetic staples that contributed to it. Star Wars is also directly inspired by Kurosawa, so we can go in circles on this.

The disconnect comes from Sega of America adapting the brand/character into punk rock Micky Mouse which, as we've seen, worked really well at the time. But having two separate renditions of the same brand was never going to end prettily as, to this day, laypeople still say, "Eggman? I thought his name was Doctor Robotnik." I remember reading an interview with Naka where he spoke about how bizarre it was to see Sonic Underground on tv in the mornings when he was in San Francisco because it was completely its own thing with its own lore and presentation and characters. You can see they tried to make the Japanese rendition/presentation the 'official' Sonic the Hedgehog throughout the early 2000's, but the dominant consumer base just never could reconcile these two takes on the same character. So of course the West won out, it was the territory where Sonic sold the most. I don't think Unleashed was the series remembering anything, as Sonic was never "cartoony" outside of Western promotional presentation, but the word "cartoony" can easily devolve into a semantic argument; I'm sure Sonic Team would agree with you that Sonic is cartoony, but I'm willing to bet they'd mean it in the same way that anime are technically cartoons. That was their frame of reference. And sure, the Deadly Six can have been based on oni, but the fact remains that the presentation was absolutely geared toward Western sensibilities. They look like they'd fit into that late Pac-Man reboot, and I don't think that's by accident.

Sega did such a poor job of managing this brand that it virtually has no identity anymore. There are so many "eras," so many takes and continuities. Sonic's not a character anymore so much as a brand on the level of Hello Kitty; kids recognize him and he sells ice-cream and backpacks. Unfortunately, that seems to be enough.

[Wraith]

A newfound focus on comedy and character interaction didn't sound like the worst thing in the world for me at the time. It had the potential to fill the holes in the flaws of the series storytelling up until that point with a less plot driven approach. I like almost every story arc and character introduced from SA2 up until Sonic and the Black Knight but there was plenty of room for improvement and the lack of interesting character interactions was a big one. There are a lot of great scenes butplenty of them come down to exposition or the characters just talking about where to go next due to the nature of those games. A lot of old school Sonic art showed tons of laid back interactions and moments that rarely manifested in the plot driven games and it would have been cool to see our favorite characters in a different light. 

The problem was that these changes were committed to so half-heartedly that it felt like mandates or lipservice instead of someone who actually had an idea on how to make something great. Long standing favorites like Knuckles and Amy were shoved into the background for no practical reason while the duo of Sonic and Tails had possibly the driest interactions they've ever had in the forefront. It was pretty obvious to me that integrating the series's treasure trove of characters would have spiced these new games up, even if they only limited themselves to characters introduced before '98, but we're limited to Tails and Eggman because that's what Sonic 2 did and Sonic 2 is still one of the most successful games in the series. Tails and Eggman also directly serve a function as guide and boss respectively, and those are really the only types of characters a game needs, right? It's all very cynical and calculated in the worst possible way.

Nothing was actually done to leverage this simplification in a way that justified it. Colors doesn't do an uninterrupted deep dive into the atmosphere of an alien world like CD does. There are moments where the game's atmosphere comes together for some really beautiful moments like the intros to Starlight Carnival and Planet Wisp, but those are rare. The plight of the wisps is hardly acknowledged at all before the last third. Sonic is deliberately cut off from most of the cast so we can't use the lack of tension to spend time with our favorite heroes in a low stakes environment. Bland or lackluster animation still plagues most of the cutscenes so the lack of characters or complex action sequences mostly just feels like a step down instead of a concession. Most of Unleashed's underlying gameplay flaws carried over with the goal to the tweaks boiling down to making it easier to reach the goal ring instead of taking steps toward a more free-form action game meaning people like me that liked the fact that Unleashed was challenging are left out to dry.

Sonic Lost World runs into a lot of similar problems. The attempt to create friction between Sonic and Tails was appreciated, but it's just about the only narrative thread the game introduced that it was interested in and they still can't help but drop the ball at the end. It gets points for me for it's attempt at more free-form gameplay and I genuinely think some of the changes they did to the artstyle are interesting, but it never really comes together.

Any new additions to the series lore were so understated that it became hard for me to get attached to them and their simplified designs didn't help with that. They started to lean on function over aesthetic appeal which was never Sonic's style. Just take a look at Knuckles who debuted in 1994 if you want to see how core to the series this really is. He's obviously designed to be a ground based boxer evocative of Sonic, but almost nothing about his actual abilities in game are communicated. He flies around and climbs walls with punching being a footnote. It didn't matter too much though because Knuckles is such a cool design that would stand out in any cast. I'd give similar praise to most of the other Sonic characters introduced before 2006. 

Meanwhile, something like the wisps, D6 or Donda Pa feel like function was prioritized over form. Generic tutorial faeries or miniboss squads that felt evocative of other popular games so you immediately understood what their purpose was. You can argue that this started with Chip but you can at least tell the writing staff didn't change yet because he's given something resembling an arc. The deadly six are so focused on playing their role with almost no focus on the 'why' that it's understandable to me when people say they feel like they're from a different franchise. Not every Sonic rival came with the most interesting and justifiable motivation but we were almost always encouraged to try to see their perspective on things through an alternate campaign or going to good lengths in the story to explain their motivations. The Deadly Six are only a step above badniks in terms of autonomy  which is a big step back from the likes of chaos or shadow.

I'm open minded to a paradigm shift, but Sonic Colors and onward wasn't even that. It was a lesser product through and through.

To be fair to the series though it does feel like they're recognizing these issues and taking steady steps in the right direction. Sonic Mania actually justifies it's back to basics approach by bringing back almost all the gameplay strengths of the good old days and improving on them few strings attached. Sonic Forces is a disaster as a game but Infinite is the most interesting design in the main games in quite some time and the story made an attempt to do most of what I was asking for above. The comics have introduced Tangle, Whisper, and Starline who not only feel like big wins in terms of designs but fit in with the cast established before 2007 like a glove in terms of depth. Animated shorts have started coming out that actually execute on all of the things I wanted Sonic Colors Gens, and Lost World to do so effortlessly that it's embarrassing. Lackluster releases like Sonic Boom and the movie are still frequent, but I'm nowhere near where I was with the series in 2016. I'm actually curious to see what the plan is instead of dreading it.

 

[Shadowlax]

5 hours ago, Wraith said:

A newfound focus on comedy and character interaction didn't sound like the worst thing in the world for me at the time. It had the potential to fill the holes in the flaws of the series storytelling up until that point with a less plot driven approach. A lot of old school Sonic art showed tons of laid back interactions and moments that rarely manifested in the plot driven games and it would have been cool to see our favorite characters in a different light. 

The problem was that these changes were committed to so half-heartedly that it felt like mandates or lipservice instead of someone who actually had an idea on how to make something great. Long standing favorites like Knuckles and Amy were shoved into the background for no practical reason while the duo of Sonic and Tails had possibly the driest interactions they've ever had in the forefront. It was pretty obvious to me that integrating the series's treasure trove of characters would have spiced these new games up, even if they only limited themselves to characters introduced before '98, but we're limited to Tails and Eggman because that's what Sonic 2 did and Sonic 2 is still one of the most successful games in the series. Tails and Eggman also directly serve a function as guide and boss respectively, and those are really the only types of characters a game needs, right?

Nothing was actually done to leverage this simplification in a way that justified it. Colors doesn't do an uninterrupted deep dive into the atmosphere of an alien world like CD does. There are moments where the game's atmosphere comes together for some really beautiful moments like the intros to Starlight Carnival and Planet Wisp, but those are rare. The plight of the wisps is hardly acknowledged at all before the last third. Sonic is deliberately cut off from most of the cast so we can't use the lack of tension to spend time with our favorite heroes in a low stakes environment. Bland or lackluster animation still plagues most of the cutscenes so the lack of characters or complex action sequences mostly just feels like a step down instead of a concession. Most of Unleashed's underlying gameplay flaws carried over with the goal to the tweaks boiling down to making it easier to reach the goal ring instead of taking steps toward a more free-form action game meaning people like me that liked the fact that Unleashed was challenging are left out to dry.

Sonic Lost World runs into a lot of similar problems. The attempt to create friction between Sonic and Tails was appreciated, but it's just about the only narrative thread the game introduced that it was interested in and they still can't help but drop the ball at the end. It gets points for me for it's attempt at more free-form gameplay and I genuinely think some of the changes they did to the artstyle are interesting, but it never really comes together.

Any new additions to the series lore were so understated that it became hard for me to get attached to them with their simplified designs not helping things. They started to lean on function over aesthetic appeal which was never Sonic's style. Just take a look at Knuckles who debuted in 1994 if you want to see how core to the series this really is. He's obviously designed to be a ground based boxer evocative of Sonic, but almost nothing about his actual abilities in game are communicated. He flies around and climbs walls with punching being a footnote. It didn't matter too much though because Knuckles is such a cool design that would stand out in any cast. I'd give similar praise to most of the other Sonic characters introduced before 2006. 

Meanwhile, something like the wisps, D6 or Donda Pa feel like function was prioritized over form. Generic tutorial faeries or miniboss squads that felt evocative of other popular games so you immediately understood what their purpose was. You can argue that this started with Chip but you can at least tell the writing staff didn't change yet because he's given something resembling an arc. The deadly six are so focused on playing their role with almost no focus on the 'why' that it's understandable to me when people say they feel like they're from a different franchise. Not every Sonic rival came with the most interesting and justifiable motivation but we were almost always encouraged to try to see their perspective on things through an alternate campaign or going to good lengths in the story to explain their motivations. The Deadly Six are only a step above badniks in terms of autonomy  which is a big step back from the likes of chaos or shadow.

I'm open minded to a paradigm shift, but Sonic Colors and onward wasn't even that. It was a lesser product through and through.

To be fair to the series though it does feel like they're recognizing these issues and taking steady steps in the right direction. Sonic Mania actually justifies it's back to basics approach by bringing back almost all the gameplay strengths of the good old days and improving on them few strings attached. Sonic Forces is a disaster as a game but Infinite is the most interesting design in the main games in quite some time and the story made an attempt to do most of what I was asking for above. The comics have introduced Tangle, Whisper, and Starline who not only feel like big wins in terms of designs but fit in with the cast established before 2007 like a glove in terms of depth. Animated shorts have started coming out that actually execute on all of the things I wanted Sonic Colors Gens, and Lost World to do so effortlessly that it's embarrassing. Lackluster releases like Sonic Boom and the movie are still frequent, but I'm nowhere near where I was with the series in 2016. I'm actually curious to see what the plan is instead of dreading it.

 

So I really like this post it may not be reflective of my feelings exactly. However I can relate to a good bit of but also it addresses things that usually do not talk or think about in regards to this sort of thing. Particularly two points the first being "Welcome to a paradigm shift" I like you and I feel like many others in theory thought the idea was neat a more comedic take on the series or in our eyes maybe  a more light hearted one might be more welcome it could balance out the action-ey parts. It could be bring a sense of calculated and well thought out joviality or perspective to some others.

What we got even back during colors was an excuse. The action, the effort in many ways was scapegoated. Things were removed not to be brought back under a different perspective ( although that did technically happen just in a bad way) , they were removed because " this is bad and this isn't sonic" a loud section of an audience ( that didn't actually buy those games ironically enough ) stated. And it was reflective of that, reflective of sega not understanding why people like or dislike things or even who there audience is on a grander scale. I was one of the people who were willing to give sonic boom a chance, some more than others I had hoped for that jovality action mix, but what we got was more of the same. Call backs to things they know people like , not understanding why. And this is part of the reason unlike you I fear for the future but we will get to that in a second.

The next thing you bring up is style over function, I kind of agree with this. And I say " kind of " because I agree that stylishness is its own function in character design but I get your meaning and I agree with the gist of it. Its something I don't often think about because of my perspective on the matter but there are a lot of sonic character designs that don't " technically" make sense.

Shadow a character who for many was supposed to be a " mirror" to sonic ended up looking more like a demon hedgehog with rocket sneakers  more than anything. And characterization wise, at least imo he isn't really a mirror at all nor does he care ( at least when written well ) for the machinations of sonic and his friends. He's kind of his own weird thing. And that's neat and he isn't the only character like that. Knuckles, blaze silver now amy characters who moved out of their role because their style not just visual style but characterization as well was better not in that role.  That is what makes sonic characters interesting. You go in expecting a thing and you get something else. That's fun.

However I can't quite say i'm with you where the series stands currently. For one key reason ,it seems like noting has changed.

Mania while cool seems like how sega's handling it a one time deal which... doesn't really bode well for the future. The studio working on it isn't working with sega right now. And I personally have qualms believing that sega would go " Hey we get this we can make sonic mania two internally" try to do that and fail. In fact its a fear of mine. I could be wrong but nothing's really changed at sega

on that same note, forces. Forces imo isn't indicative of a change for the better. Its indicative of them just changing the focus of their mediocrity. Forces from top to bottom is them understanding people like things, but not understanding why. From gameplay , narrative characters, aesthetic they have a vague notion or understanding people like things. But don't get why. There's no reason for me personally not to expect anything other than mediocre attempts at things done before except its adventure.
"Hey do you like this , its adventure nostalgia babyeee, you see shadow look at him isn't that why you like him him being edgy all the time isn't that just all you like nothing else hahaha , buy our products"

I expect nothing but self serving masturbatory attempts to relieve the past while failing to appease the people that nostalgia is for , and failing to convince newer or folks on the outs with the series.

The cartoons are neat but that's all they are, shorts. And how long before someone at sega decides that shit needs to be mandated

16 hours ago, HPX said:

Yeah, I've realized I'm in the minority on stanning shonen Sonic.

I don't think you are  i just think there are different audiences for these sorts of things who might prefer a different take on sonic depending on what its going for at the time. I don't think you are, I don't think people call it or even acknowledge it as " shounen" sonic, I think a lot of general audiences would call it action sonic or something. or just adventure era. I think the point the other guy was making that there are different era's and those fans may have different priorities in terms of what they see sonic as and the characters in general. There are general themes these characters sort of revolve around and the tone of the series that can and have and will be interpreted many different ways. I don't think that means you a minority, infact the call for adventure remakes may mean the opposite. But its a thing to consider. There are few constants in this series and the few constant's there are I would argue is because they haven't found an alternative version that works for audiences yet, a good example being shadow in this regard.

 

16 hours ago, HPX said:

 

The disconnect comes from Sega of America adapting the brand/character into punk rock Micky Mouse which, as we've seen, worked really well at the time. But having two separate renditions of the same brand was never going to end prettily as, to this day, laypeople still say, "Eggman? I thought his name was Doctor Robotnik." I remember reading an interview with Naka where he spoke about how bizarre it was to see Sonic Underground on tv in the mornings when he was in San Francisco because it was completely its own thing with its own lore and presentation and characters. You can see they tried to make the Japanese rendition/presentation the 'official' Sonic the Hedgehog throughout the early 2000's, but the dominant consumer base just never could reconcile these two takes on the same character. So of course the West won out, it was the territory where Sonic sold the most. I don't think Unleashed was the series remembering anything, as Sonic was never "cartoony" outside of Western promotional presentation, but the word "cartoony" can easily devolve into a semantic argument; I'm sure Sonic Team would agree with you that Sonic is cartoony, but I'm willing to bet they'd mean it in the same way that anime are technically cartoons. That was their frame of reference. And sure, the Deadly Six can have been based on oni, but the fact remains that the presentation was absolutely geared toward Western sensibilities. They look like they'd fit into that late Pac-Man reboot, and I don't think that's by accident.

Also I feel like parts of this are inaccurate and kind of understate the issues at the time. I feel like this takes the onus away from sonic team and sega and primarily sega. A studio with no real direction and a company who wanted to pump out games at a even clip. And what happened were some directionless titles with questionable technical standing leading to 06 and then people scape goating a part of sonic. It wasn't the inability have a  reconciliation of two versions of the character. Because if that were true, you wouldn't have what's happening now which is them pivoting to that early 2000's nostalgia. Shadow wouldn't be as popular as he is and him being characterized to appeal to a simpler cartoony base wouldn't be a loudly rejected. These modern games wouldn't be seen by many as these limp uninteresting inoffensive middle of the road pieces of media. And maybe most importantly, the games wouldn't be selling less.

I don't think there was ever a need to reconcile these two sonic's , the fanbase already did. There was no " classic sonic" back in the day, sonic...was sonic he was just different. It was two ends of a corporation having internal hissyfits over thier inability to control a cartoon hedgehog and it having ramifications on the franchise. Being funded by a corporation who cared about dollars over quality

So I think its important to not try and like frame this is a cultural issue, it never was. It was multiple facets of a corperation, failing to reconcile or properly fund or give proper time to its product ( sounds familiar) and in the wake of a massive screw up listened to a particularly loud part of the audience. That didn't actually buy the games their screaming created except for mania... the thing they wanted. Its just a corporate entity who wants easy dollars actually investigating and understanding why people like things and creating products that reflect that is something that requires spending just listen to the loud people. And as of currently the loud people are the adventure people, so here we are at this current shift. And this shift isn't a cultural issue either ( well it is but in a way that's relevant to my point ) , its just corporate failure. There are companies that switch they shit up all the time and they don't have sonic 06 happen. They don't blindly unmitigated listen to parts of their fanbase without understanding who's saying shit. They don't bother to not do any market research whatsoever and leave brand engagement solely up to the guy running the twitter, or who ran the twitter. They are competent what they create. Sega does not exist in a vacuum and I do not think it does them a service to mask their failures.

 

16 hours ago, HPX said:

Sega did such a poor job of managing this brand that it virtually has no identity anymore. There are so many "eras," so many takes and continuities. Sonic's not a character anymore so much as a brand on the level of Hello Kitty; kids recognize him and he sells ice-cream and backpacks. Unfortunately, that seems to be enough.

Now when I saw your post, this is the part I actually really wanted to speak on. Because if it sonic were like hello kitty sanario, I would be ok. Might be my preferred version of the brand. It they took a sanrio, disney, so of market brand sort of take of the franchise , because there would just be wild different shit. I would love a shadow the hedgehog  character action game, or an agressuko style show about amy, or a duck tails style show about knuckles whilst also having shorts and video games about sonic himself. Different content different characters and you get to just pick and choose and while everyone isn't happy it would cast a wide enough net that generally a lot of people would be happy.

It does those things, the MLPs, these brand diverse franchises a disservice because there is market research quality assurace and a bunch of other stuff going on that allow for these things to exist. What sonic does is consolidate all these very different brand to gather pretends people should like them and when they don't are content with making what money they can whilst blaming whatever it is people are upset about at the time promise to do better, don't and repeat cycle. To sonic's credit it has begun to actually separate its shit to some degree, so that's fun. Maybe that goes somewhere meaningful.

But my point is I WISH sonic was like that. I would LOVE if sonic was like that. But its not

[Wraith]

I mean, make no mistake. I said I was curious, I didn't say I was hopeful lmao. 

SEGA's upper management has been screwing this series since it started. People have just been more successful at slipping good content in through the margins. 

[Shadowlax]

10 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I mean, make no mistake. I said I was curious, I didn't say I was hopeful lmao. 

SEGA's upper management has been screwing this series since it started. People have just been more successful at slipping good content in through the margins. 

Fair enough, hopefully things get a bit looser ( particularly with their wallets) so we can get even more well made well produced content. Just not loose enough in which we end up with a penders or something

[HPX]

20 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I don't think you are  i just think there are different audiences for these sorts of things who might prefer a different take on sonic depending on what its going for at the time. I don't think you are, I don't think people call it or even acknowledge it as " shounen" sonic, I think a lot of general audiences would call it action sonic or something. or just adventure era. I think the point the other guy was making that there are different era's and those fans may have different priorities in terms of what they see sonic as and the characters in general. There are general themes these characters sort of revolve around and the tone of the series that can and have and will be interpreted many different ways. I don't think that means you a minority, infact the call for adventure remakes may mean the opposite. But its a thing to consider. There are few constants in this series and the few constant's there are I would argue is because they haven't found an alternative version that works for audiences yet, a good example being shadow in this regard.

You might be right there, I just still see a healthy amount of dark age revulsion and a constant bleating of, "Sonic shouldn't be dark or take itself too seriously." These are things detractors of the era attribute to it the most and, while I've never been entirely sure exactly what they mean, I think what they mean is that they don't like Sonic's history of anime presentation. On the other hand, though, I think a lot of the fans who grew up with the Adventure games have come of age where they can articulate the things about the series they fell in love with and want to see it again. In the end, though, this fanbase is factionalized to hell, so it's hard to really tell what majority is/isn't. I'd love to see numbers on that. Imagine if we could look at the data from the recent SEGA survey.

31 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Also I feel like parts of this are inaccurate and kind of understate the issues at the time. I feel like this takes the onus away from sonic team and sega and primarily sega. A studio with no real direction and a company who wanted to pump out games at a even clip. And what happened were some directionless titles with questionable technical standing leading to 06 and then people scape goating a part of sonic. It wasn't the inability have a  reconciliation of two versions of the character. Because if that were true, you wouldn't have what's happening now which is them pivoting to that early 2000's nostalgia. Shadow wouldn't be as popular as he is and him being characterized to appeal to a simpler cartoony base wouldn't be a loudly rejected. These modern games wouldn't be seen by many as these limp uninteresting inoffensive middle of the road pieces of media. And maybe most importantly, the games wouldn't be selling less.

I don't think there was ever a need to reconcile these two sonic's , the fanbase already did. There was no " classic sonic" back in the day, sonic...was sonic he was just different. It was two ends of a corporation having internal hissyfits over thier inability to control a cartoon hedgehog and it having ramifications on the franchise. Being funded by a corporation who cared about dollars over quality

So I think its important to not try and like frame this is a cultural issue, it never was. It was multiple facets of a corperation, failing to reconcile or properly fund or give proper time to its product ( sounds familiar) and in the wake of a massive screw up listened to a particularly loud part of the audience. That didn't actually buy the games their screaming created except for mania... the thing they wanted. Its just a corporate entity who wants easy dollars actually investigating and understanding why people like things and creating products that reflect that is something that requires spending just listen to the loud people. And as of currently the loud people are the adventure people, so here we are at this current shift. And this shift isn't a cultural issue either ( well it is but in a way that's relevant to my point ) , its just corporate failure. There are companies that switch they shit up all the time and they don't have sonic 06 happen. They don't blindly unmitigated listen to parts of their fanbase without understanding who's saying shit. They don't bother to not do any market research whatsoever and leave brand engagement solely up to the guy running the twitter, or who ran the twitter. They are competent what they create. Sega does not exist in a vacuum and I do not think it does them a service to mask their failures.

I'd argue we didn't start seeing directionless Sonic titles until fairly recently; the games from the early to mid 2000's had bold personalities and clear visions for what they wanted to be, regardless of how we may feel about each individual title and whether or not they realized their respective visions.

But the main point is that I was referring to public perception of the franchise, not specifically fan perception. I wasn't there at the time, but I believe you when you say that there was no distinction between Classic and Modern until Generations. And yeah, I think there's plenty of blame to go around as to how we ended up here, not just limited to the consumer base and critics. Sega of America and Sega of Japan should have been more coordinated to create a stronger brand with a singular identity, but I think the success SoA saw with its revamp of the character afforded them the license to do whatever the hell they wanted, as we've seen from the 'Sonic Bible,' the cartoons, and the comics. I really do think culture played a big part in tearing the brand apart; certainly not the sole reason, but as I mentioned earlier, we still see people going on about how Sonic shouldn't take itself seriously and how radioactive '06 still is. But you're absolutely right, Sega does deserve blame.

49 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Now when I saw your post, this is the part I actually really wanted to speak on. Because if it sonic were like hello kitty sanario, I would be ok. Might be my preferred version of the brand. It they took a sanrio, disney, so of market brand sort of take of the franchise , because there would just be wild different shit. I would love a shadow the hedgehog  character action game, or an agressuko style show about amy, or a duck tails style show about knuckles whilst also having shorts and video games about sonic himself. Different content different characters and you get to just pick and choose and while everyone isn't happy it would cast a wide enough net that generally a lot of people would be happy.

It does those things, the MLPs, these brand diverse franchises a disservice because there is market research quality assurace and a bunch of other stuff going on that allow for these things to exist. What sonic does is consolidate all these very different brand to gather pretends people should like them and when they don't are content with making what money they can whilst blaming whatever it is people are upset about at the time promise to do better, don't and repeat cycle. To sonic's credit it has begun to actually separate its shit to some degree, so that's fun. Maybe that goes somewhere meaningful.

But my point is I WISH sonic was like that. I would LOVE if sonic was like that. But its not

You might have taken me a bit literally on this point. I only wanted to say that Sonic, both as a character and a brand, has become completely vapid and nothing more than a recognizable mascot. Which, technically, is all he was ever meant to be.

[Shadowlax]

 

1 hour ago, HPX said:

I'd argue we didn't start seeing directionless Sonic titles until fairly recently; the games from the early to mid 2000's had bold personalities and clear visions for what they wanted to be, regardless of how we may feel about each individual title and whether or not they realized their respective visions.

That's fair. Maybe a better term would be " unfocused"

1 hour ago, HPX said:

But the main point is that I was referring to public perception of the franchise, not specifically fan perception. I wasn't there at the time, but I believe you when you say that there was no distinction between Classic and Modern until Generations. And yeah, I think there's plenty of blame to go around as to how we ended up here, not just limited to the consumer base and critics. Sega of America and Sega of Japan should have been more coordinated to create a stronger brand with a singular identity, but I think the success SoA saw with its revamp of the character afforded them the license to do whatever the hell they wanted, as we've seen from the 'Sonic Bible,' the cartoons, and the comics. I really do think culture played a big part in tearing the brand apart; certainly not the sole reason, but as I mentioned earlier, we still see people going on about how Sonic shouldn't take itself seriously and how radioactive '06 still is. But you're absolutely right, Sega does deserve blame.

I would make the argument that " general audience perception " never really mattered and we are seeing the results of that. Its why I tend to lay a good chunk of the blame of sega' shoulders. In short, if those general audiences were never interested in paying you or buying your stuff... then what do their opinions matter. We have seen the franchise specifically change to appeal to specific types of people with some quality titles and that didn't work... they largely didn't buy it. Its part of why they seemingly have started to pivot back to adventure nostalgia because the classic market isn't reliable  beyond occasional toys and a mania. The people still talking about 06 or talking about how sonic should never be serious, seemingly aren't buying these products.

The brand was torn apart when a corporation doing no market research decided to instead of going in looking at the parts getting out what works is good what people like focusing on that and moving on listened to a large section of people some of which not apart of their audience at all a lot of which at the time jaded adults as to what should be done about this franchise for children. And they literally ripped the brand apart by removing large chunks of it. Sega ripped it apart. And it wasn't worth it, so here we are.

You are right the west and the east should have worked together more, but they didn't. They fought over this blue hedgehog and hot potatoed custody because they thought they knew better but they should have worked together. And were quick to blame everything else but that ( and sega's lack of funding and time) .

Kingdom hearts a series notorious for nonsensical plot lines a bunch of spin offs very indulgent in anime fuckery in general. Kingdom Hearts sells 5+ per game. Kingdom hearts works much like how mania works because it is unabashedly who its for, people who want that specific thing. Tetsuya nomra doesn't give a crap if general audiences think riku's arc is contrived. And sega shouldn't give a crap if " general audiences" think something in sonic is weird. They should worry if its bad and if its working for the audience actually buying their game.

The death of this series will be by the nebulous " general audience"

1 hour ago, HPX said:

You might have taken me a bit literally on this point. I only wanted to say that Sonic, both as a character and a brand, has become completely vapid and nothing more than a recognizable mascot. Which, technically, is all he was ever meant to be.

That's my bad. I just I wish sonic was like that, we would be in a way better place of fans of this thing it it were. It terms of how he is used

[BadBehavior]

11 hours ago, Wraith said:

Sonic Forces is a disaster as a game but Infinite is the most interesting design in the main games in quite some time and the story made an attempt to do most of what I was asking for above.

I think that's at the heart of my extreme disappointment with that game and why i think it's so bad.

It's not like Colours which was pretty much everything I didn't want in a Sonic game all in one package: There's stuff about Forces that I should like on paper: bigger focus on story: a new exciting playstyle.

But then I have to play it and I'm reminded that the story include Tails bending over for Chaos and constant speeches from the cast about the real superpower of friendship. And that "new exciting playstyle" is literally just Modern Sonic who can shoot stuff. They do nothing interesting with the Avatar that Modern Sonic couldn't already do. And if I wanted to obliterate entire armies of ridiculously weak enemies... I'd just play a Musou.

[Scritch the Cat]

On 7/25/2020 at 3:26 PM, HPX said:

Yeah, I've realized I'm in the minority on stanning shonen Sonic.

My impression was always that Sega wanted a mascot that would appeal to Western audiences, with 'cool' being the driving guideline, and Sonic Team naturally only knew how to realize that through their own cultural lexicon. From the beginning, Japanese video games always had manga and anime to draw from, and Sonic was no exception; Super Sonic alone is the obvious analogue, but Naka has stated that even the blue sphere special stages were directly inspired by one of the Dragon Ball Z ending sequences, to say nothing of the Chaos Emeralds. I don't see how it also being inspired by Star Wars somehow negates the predominate culture that birthed Sonic and the narrative and aesthetic staples that contributed to it. Star Wars is also directly inspired by Kurosawa, so we can go in circles on this.

The disconnect comes from Sega of America adapting the brand/character into punk rock Micky Mouse which, as we've seen, worked really well at the time. But having two separate renditions of the same brand was never going to end prettily as, to this day, laypeople still say, "Eggman? I thought his name was Doctor Robotnik." I remember reading an interview with Naka where he spoke about how bizarre it was to see Sonic Underground on tv in the mornings when he was in San Francisco because it was completely its own thing with its own lore and presentation and characters. You can see they tried to make the Japanese rendition/presentation the 'official' Sonic the Hedgehog throughout the early 2000's, but the dominant consumer base just never could reconcile these two takes on the same character. So of course the West won out, it was the territory where Sonic sold the most. I don't think Unleashed was the series remembering anything, as Sonic was never "cartoony" outside of Western promotional presentation, but the word "cartoony" can easily devolve into a semantic argument; I'm sure Sonic Team would agree with you that Sonic is cartoony, but I'm willing to bet they'd mean it in the same way that anime are technically cartoons. That was their frame of reference. And sure, the Deadly Six can have been based on oni, but the fact remains that the presentation was absolutely geared toward Western sensibilities. They look like they'd fit into that late Pac-Man reboot, and I don't think that's by accident.

Sega did such a poor job of managing this brand that it virtually has no identity anymore. There are so many "eras," so many takes and continuities. Sonic's not a character anymore so much as a brand on the level of Hello Kitty; kids recognize him and he sells ice-cream and backpacks. Unfortunately, that seems to be enough.

I don’t think it’s fair to say that a Sonic WASN’T a “punk rock Mickey Mouse” in the Japanese view.  Sonic’s design was obviously inspired by Mickey Mouse, his personality was conceived to be a bit edgy, and he was originally in a band.  I’m of the opinion that Sonic HIMSELF didn’t feel too different between his 1990s American media and his Dreamcast-era games. The bigger changes were all in what sort of plots and worlds he was in, but these things were never consistent with each other even within one era or country.  People still talk of how different that Saturday morning and week day Sonic cartoons were, especially as they ran in the same years.  Yes; Sonic Underground is weird.  Some would argue it’s the weirdest American take on Sonic, ever.  But that manga wherein Sonic has a nerdy schoolboy alter-ego who somehow doesn’t know he’s also Sonic, and Sonic fights a school bully by cooking him in a pizza,  is ALSO weird.  Certainly it’s not based on much one can perceive in Sonic’s games!  
 

Even in Japan, what Sonic’s world is and is allowed to be have never been strictly defined.  That you happen to like certain things it has been more than others doesn’t change that; EVERYONE does.  SEGA has certainly tightened some things up in light of that kerfuffle with Penders, but in other ways they’ve become even more lax, as with their “continuity bubble” policy that allows them to experiment with a bunch of different ideas in hopes of finding those that work, while backing out of those that don’t.

[HPX]

13 minutes ago, Scritch the Cat said:

The bigger changes were all in what sort of plots and worlds he was in, but these things were never consistent with each other even within one era or country.

...

Even in Japan, what Sonic’s world is and is allowed to be have never been strictly defined.  That you happen to like certain things it has been more than others doesn’t change that; EVERYONE does.

There was a pretty clear throughline throughout the games from Sonic 1 through to Adventure 2, with an established lore and internal consistency. Sonic Team certainly did try to break out of those constraints with Heroes, and Sonic's world gradually became more and more nebulous with every subsequent release until they tried to hard(ish) reboot with '06. After that, anything goes, you're right. But I stand by my assertion that Sonic had a clearer fiction and tone at one point. I mourn that loss. That's all I meant to say. I know we're all mourning our own losses. That's the point of the thread. 

[Flame Lance]

I'm pretty concerned about Sonic's future for one large reason here being the lack of output mixed with underwhelming quality. Sonic Forces was almost three years ago. The game took an alleged 4 years and yet was one of the most painfully mediocre Sonic products perhaps ever. Sonic Mania was also released in 2017 and saw DLC about a year later. Now we are left to wonder if we will be seeing more Mania style games. It's 2020 and we don't have even so much as a hint as to whether a Mania 2 is on the way or not. And the only games we've had since those two are the bargain-bin low budget Team Sonic Racing and the 2020 Olympics title. And well... mobile crap. This just seems awfully poor considering Crash Bandicoot had the smash hit N Sane trilogy in 2017, CTR Nitro Fueled in 2019 which performed FAR better than TSR, and is now about to see a huge sequel title in the way of Crash 4, which is coming out this year and will likely do extremely well, whereas Sonic has... nothing coming out this year. Not games anyway.

I mean, am I missing something here? How is it that Sega is not properly competing with Crash? I suppose it is possible that they're putting all of their eggs into the 30th anniversary basket and we'll see multiple big titles next year, however I am pretty skeptical of this after being disappointed for so long. And I think I'm just worried that Sonic will only really see new games whenever there's an anniversary and not yearly like in the past. I know they promise taking their time and giving us quality, but these things have been said before, and not much has really improved. I'll eat my words if they prove me wrong on this, but I'd honestly settle for two or so mediocre games a year than wait years just for one mediocre title. I was a happier fan during the so-called "dark ages" because we at least got content on the regular even if not everything hit the mark. Now we wait ages just to get rubbish like Forces. This is honestly not what I would consider an improvement, but as I said before, I will gladly take back my words if next year ends up amazing. 

[Shadow Chaos Control]

Sonic is going to be a little different with each generation, hence personality changes.  When I was growing up Sonic was “Way past cool,” and “the fastest thing alive,” but at the same time he munched on chili dogs and defeated Robotnik in very Scooby Dooesque ways, hence Robotnik actually saying, “I’ll get that hedgehog!” As we moved towards the millenium, Sonic transformed into a cool, hipster, rail grinding speed junkie that had more in common with Tony Hawk than his older self that was more silly and down to earth. From there the DBZ elements crept in with SA2, and Sonic while still able to crack a joke, had more serious fish to fry (especially in the comics). 

Now the shift is towards a hybrid of Classic Sonic (Mr. Robotnik, Dennis Menance) and the rail ridiing hipster. A Sonic for gens Y and Z, while retaining what Millennials and Gen Xers loved. 

[Josh]

  

On 8/24/2020 at 10:04 PM, Titan Mecha Sonic said:

Sonic is going to be a little different with each generation, hence personality changes.  When I was growing up Sonic was “Way past cool,” and “the fastest thing alive,” but at the same time he munched on chili dogs and defeated Robotnik in very Scooby Dooesque ways, hence Robotnik actually saying, “I’ll get that hedgehog!” As we moved towards the millenium, Sonic transformed into a cool, hipster, rail grinding speed junkie that had more in common with Tony Hawk than his older self that was more silly and down to earth. From there the DBZ elements crept in with SA2, and Sonic while still able to crack a joke, had more serious fish to fry (especially in the comics). 

Now the shift is towards a hybrid of Classic Sonic (Mr. Robotnik, Dennis Menance) and the rail ridiing hipster. A Sonic for gens Y and Z, while retaining what Millennials and Gen Xers loved. 

Very well said, and that's how I see it, too. Sonic as a brand was designed from the beginning to be adaptable to different regions, contexts, and forms of media. But as a brand that always targets kids, it's also inevitably going to evolve with the times. I think a lot of fans who get into this series when they're really young go through this awkward period where they suddenly look at a game like Heroes or Colors or Forces and realize, "Hey, wait, they made this one for KIDS!" and get really weirdly invested in the idea that it wasn't always this way.

To answer the question in the OP, I don't feel that way at all now. But I sure as hell did back around 2005. I spent a few years after Heroes thinking that while I'd always love the classics, the series had "changed" forever, Sonic "wasn't Sonic" anymore, they were only interested in targeting "the kiddies" and not "real fans," and this new direction meant it was just never gonna be important to me again. Which is just hilarious, now, considering that I eventually came back as a bigger fan than ever, and discovered plenty to love about the games I'd missed out on.

Which is not to say I expect everyone to eventually come around on Forces by any means. I still think Heroes is a dumpster fire. But I'm not emotionally invested in making sure that everyone ELSE sees it that way. There's more value in trying to appreciate what it was TRYING to do, and seeing it from the perspective of someone who loves it than in trying to tear it down and gatekeep fans who disagree, y'know?

I think a deluge of fans are going through that same sort of "Sonic isn't Sonic anymore" reckoning in the wake of Forces, especially those who didn't feel like the previous games, especially Mania, catered to their tastes. That, combined with the absolute drought of info about the 30th anniversary, combined with all the chaos going on in the real world, is putting everyone on edge. But perspectives tend to mature, anger passes, and this too will pass.

[Shadow Chaos Control]

2 hours ago, Josh said:

  

Very well said, and that's how I see it, too. Sonic as a brand was designed from the beginning to be adaptable to different regions, contexts, and forms of media. But as a brand that always targets kids, it's also inevitably going to evolve with the times. I think a lot of fans who get into this series when they're really young go through this awkward period where they suddenly look at a game like Heroes or Colors or Forces and realize, "Hey, wait, they made this one for KIDS!" and get really weirdly invested in the idea that it wasn't always this way.

To answer the question in the OP, I don't feel that way at all now. But I sure as hell did back around 2005. I spent a few years after Heroes thinking that while I'd always love the classics, the series had "changed" forever, Sonic "wasn't Sonic" anymore, they were only interested in targeting "the kiddies" and not "real fans," and this new direction meant it was just never gonna be important to me again. Which is just hilarious, now, considering that I eventually came back as a bigger fan than ever, and discovered plenty to love about the games I'd missed out on.

Which is not to say I expect everyone to eventually come around on Forces by any means. I still think Heroes is a dumpster fire. But I'm not emotionally invested in making sure that everyone ELSE sees it that way. There's more value in trying to appreciate what it was TRYING to do, and seeing it from the perspective of someone who loves it than in trying to tear it down and gatekeep fans who disagree, y'know?

I think a deluge of fans are going through that same sort of "Sonic isn't Sonic anymore" reckoning in the wake of Forces, especially those who didn't feel like the previous games, especially Mania, catered to their tastes. That, combined with the absolute drought of info about the 30th anniversary, combined with all the chaos going on in the real world, is putting everyone on edge. But perspectives tend to mature, anger passes, and this too will pass.

I think what helped me not fall in the funk of “this isn’t Somic anymore,” was the Godzilla/Gojira franchise whicj has eras such as The Showa Era, Heisei Era, Millenium and now Monsterverse. I was ablw to appreciate each era of Godzilla, that he retained similiarities and yet differences in each new era. I prefer the look of Gojira in Showa and Heisei eras, but I am enjoying the newer films such as “King of Monsters.” (2019). I try to do the same witj Sonic, seeing thrm as eras, Classic Sonic Era, Freedom Fighters Era, Adventure Era, and etc.   

[Scritch the Cat]

I’m of the opinion that Sonic himself is at least as likable in this era as he’s ever been before, and more pretty often.  Sonic had a sense of humor in the Genesis-era adaptations, even at the height of the time he was also proposed as a legitimately charismatic “totally radical” character.  In the Adventure era, though I’m overall a fan of its vision of the series, Sonic’s humor seemed to wane, giving way to mere giddy enthusiasm.  If a lot has worsened since the (first half of) the Adventure era, I at least like how Sonic has regained some of the humor American adadptations gave him, or rather, game Sonic has gained it for the first time.  Sure; Baldy Nosehair is a far lamer nickname than “Robuttnik”, but I’ll take that if I can also get good jokes out of Sonic, and often enough we do.  The speech where he introduces himself to Infinite is still funny to me, despite the lackluster game it is in.

But that’s the rub; a character who has proven surprisingly timeless, considering the trope he helped engineer was already being mocked well within the 1990s, is now confined to games that are too underwhelming for anything but the margins of gaming as whole.

And I think this is because, while SEGA has more-or-less refined their mascot into something successful, they don’t have a solid vision for his games, especially since backing out of ambition.  Boost was supposed to be their silver bullet, but the amount of good things they can do with it is limited.  Being able to pass up most of a level’s terrain means that they need to throw in other things to challenge players, and those other things get repetitive.  But SEGA might feel that if they took the boost away, Sonic would feel wimpy.  I have no idea why they managed to outright worsen the boost formula in SF, but even if they hadn’t, they’d still likely be in a developmental cul-de-sac, with only the peripheral gameplay styles to justify each new game’s existence.

I will, in fact, fight on the hill of considering fangames more promising than the official games until proven otherwise.  They already have beaten SEGA at 2D Sonic, and I don’t think they’re far from doing it in 3D Sonic.  If nothing else, the fact that fangames are free, to me, can balance against their shortcomings compared to SEGA’s Sonic games.