The current tone of the Sonic game series

[RhikoruFa-La-La-La-♪]

Unleashed was okay...but a little too much of "meh" plot I didn't really care about...but at least the characters were nicely expressive.

Still, bring back some subtlety, and another point I've yet to have seen made, surreality.

Unleashed was just real world with some extra twists, I want to see some funky artwork like...heck, Heroes. As much as the character models were horrible, atrocious, and many other words, the art style was wonderful, and something I'd like to see back, especially in crisp HD and effects like Unleashed showed us. Unleashed was gorgeous, perhaps one of the best looking games I've seen in a while, but a little too realistic in that they didn't make the levels original, just based off of country ____.

Aside from graphics, as far as plot, it doesn't have to be complex, just interesting and complimentary to the gameplay, something that ALL ages could enjoy, and full of that overthetop, cartoony, surreal action that any age could go "woah" at.

More cutscenes like Sonic Unleashed's opening, where action and dialogue seemed to be at a great balance, heck, even the ending had a good balance, with Sonic getting tossed out, some minor lines, then a sweet throwback to the older games with Sonic and Tails gesturing to each other and running off. I mean, if there's an important plot point to discuss, by all means, don't have the character's limited to gestures and sign language...but often it feels they talk more than they need to...although, that may lend more to bad writing than anything.

However....SA2 and Sonic Battle had plots that I actually cared about, and the writing/dialogue was between decent and good, which was a nice change compared to just about everything else, except SA1, which had interesting plot, bad dialogue.

Still, even then, so bad it's entertaining has it's own charm, having a story that doesn't have me facepalming would be nice.

[Sankai]

Sonic 06 was such a big fucking facepalm ALL OVER THE PLACE. Just.... I mean, WHAT GOES ON IN THEIR FUCKING MINDS!? That makeout was BRUTALITY.

[Leon K Fox]

In my opinion, besides Sonic Adventure 2 Battle all of the serious storylines in the games have sucked the big one, Shadow and Sonic 2006's storylines were among the most pathetic that have ever been written. I don't care if it's just a video game as opposed to a movie or even a TV show where story are usually more important, that is still how I view it.

[blackherox]

Some more humor (good or bad) would be nice in the games would be nice. Something that few Sonic games rarely contain Classic or new. Granted the post 2007 games are doing a slightly better job.

They keep saying that the series is geared towards children of the 10-12 age group, yet there are storylines like Shadow the Hedgehog which also to some degree include profanity.

Shadow the hedgehog was not a mature story and neither was 06.

[Dark Qiviut]

Preferably, what I prefer are storylines that have a balance. A balance of humor (and sometimes parody of melodrama) while trying to tackle on occasional serious situations and adding a bit of sweetness on the side. Sonic Adventure handled the balance quite well, as each character's story dove into their subconscious minds and events during their journeys. Sonic and the Black Knight did well in balancing out the story, too -- dealing with the humor throughout and maintaining a deep, serious storyline that were hinted before coming into full circle at the end.

But I don't want to have that all the time. I want a balance of genres. Have a deep storyline at one point and a simplistic one in another. Unlike what Legendary Emerald said, completely light-hearted, simplistic, humorous stories CAN work well in Sonic games, and I think it DID work well in Unleashed. The story, characters, and their actions -- not just Chip, but everyone throughout -- were funny and displayed slapstick humor without trying to be over the top and not too embarrassing. I can see Sonic Team trying it again, and I hope they will somewhere down the line.

Though in all, it doesn't matter objectively, as long as the storylines and plot are well-written and the characters are in character.

Shadow the hedgehog was not a mature story and neither was 06.

What he means by "mature" is the overall tone of the story and whether it was appropriate for kids or not. Shadow's story, while silly, isn't one geared for young adults at all, and Sonic Next-Gen's story pushed it to an extent, too. Edited September 22, 2009 by Dark Qiviut

[Legendary Emerald]

Sonic 06 was such a big fucking facepalm ALL OVER THE PLACE. Just.... I mean, WHAT GOES ON IN THEIR FUCKING MINDS!? That makeout was BRUTALITY.

I was about to post a reason as to why I thought that was the most retarded post I'd ever read, but then I got to this line:

"That makeout was BRUTALITY"

That "makeout" only exists in your mind, and I refuse to enter a discussion with the mentally insane.

On Topic: Shadow the Hedgehog's plot was terrible, and the game overall was hardly mature. You can only maim humans? Aliens that spill green blood? ONLY saying damn and hell? Maria getting shot is taken out of the opening video?! WTF. I blame E10+; of course, getting a T rating wouldn't have fixed the awful alien plot anyways, but at least the game could have been a slight bit more entertaining.

Edited September 22, 2009 by Legendary Emerald

[Crystal Kingfisher]

I'm OK either way. I liked the dark tone in SA2, SA2 is my favorite Sonic game and I loved the dark tone. I also like the light tone as well, but not too light/childish like Black Knight. Ugh...

[Legendary Emerald]

I'm OK either way. I liked the dark tone in SA2, SA2 is my favorite Sonic game and I loved the dark tone. I also like the light tone as well, but not too light/childish like Black Knight. Ugh...

Knuckles tries to commit suicide.

Merlina wants to create a Utopian society were life lives on forever.

Sonic confronts Merlina knowing full aware that he is likely to die, and is only saved by a plot device.

The main theme of the story is Honor and the willingness to throw your life away.

SatBK seems corny and a bit childish on the surface, but there is an interesting depth and "darkness" to the game that makes it interesting.

But yes, Sonic Adventure 2 has the best plot. Followed by Sonic Adventure, and Sonic 2006.

Edited September 23, 2009 by Legendary Emerald

[Crystal Kingfisher]

Knuckles tries to commit suicide.

Merlina wants to create a Utopian society were life lives on forever.

Sonic confronts Merlina knowing full aware that he is likely to die, and is only saved by a plot device.

The main theme of the story is Honor and the willingness to throw your life away.

SatBK seems corny and a bit childish on the surface, but there is an interesting depth and "darkness" to the game that makes it interesting.

But yes, Sonic Adventure 2 has the best plot. Followed by Sonic Adventure, and Sonic 2006.

Hmm. I didn't get that far into Black Knight, but from what I played, the story seemed too lame and childish.

[blackherox]

What he means by "mature" is the overall tone of the story and whether it was appropriate for kids or not. Shadow's story, while silly, isn't one geared for young adults at all, and Sonic Next-Gen's story pushed it to an extent, too.

I'd argue that they are or could be, but nowadays anything that isn't a talkative dancing furry on rainbow is considered inappropriate for kids.

[Guest]

ONLY saying damn and hell?

I could have sworn someone (Sonic?) Said "pissed" at some point in the story... Maybe I'm remembering wrong...

[Dark Qiviut]

I could have sworn someone (Sonic?) Said "pissed" at some point in the story... Maybe I'm remembering wrong...

As far as I know, Sonic planned to say that, but it was changed to "tick" midway during the recording sessions.

[MobileChicaneX]

As far as I know, Sonic planned to say that, but it was changed to "tick" midway during the recording sessions.

Wait on which level? Oh well, at least we here sonic say "Damn" too on Lethal Highway.

Edited September 24, 2009 by Dark Motor

[Chaotix Prime]

Wait on which level? Oh well, at least we here sonic say "Damn" too on Lethal Highway.

This disturbs me.

First off, I'll start by saying not all people (want to)curse. Nowadays, it seems to be a normal part of society. But I believe conforming to society can be a very dark and sad. My brother says the F word when he's mad, and that was AFTER he started getting on the internet. I believe he really isn't trying to change his language in his heart because the people around him desensitize him.

I guess this is just my own thinking here, but Sonic obvious has a very big sense of... I dunno... what's the word here... um... justice? Wait no, morality? I dunno, perhaps I'm saying a bit too strong a word for this franchise, but what word CAN you use to define the ability to be past regular human flaws? Not saying Sonic is PERFECT, but he's better than most. The fact that he stood up to save his home when no one else did kinda shows his relationship with society, doesn't it?

One person on this board said he/she wanted to see Sonic try to kill. Well, as I pointed out, Sonic stopped Blaze from killing Eggmen. Obviously Sonic has some capacity to practice morality. And that's what makes a hero. I think he realizes this, for the most part.

Shadow the hedgehog and other new Sonic games are a result of Sonic Team conforming to shard of society: us, the fans. Look at what happens. Shadow was just a pathetic way to appease the fans wanting darkness. How many people here consider it a part of there personal canon again? We as the fandom have touched story tone time and time again and it always gets back to the knowledge of what these immaturely mature games have done to the franchise.

Back in the day I played Shadow, I found Sonic swearing so pathetically out of character for him. I mean, he wasn't even in an attitude to say a word like that. The fact that you want to see anger flaws that society has, applied to an iconic character tells me Sonic does have an upholding of... something. And that people want to pass off their flaws to those who have few. Hey, I've been there, but isn't it more rewarding to rise above things like cursing then to actually curse? I'm probably only one of the few people here who think this way, but for criyin' out loud! (and I didn't curse, even though I could have, which is more effective? Hm?)Someone has gotta stand up from the crowd every once in a while. Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings in the process.

[Diogenes]

I believe he really isn't trying to change his language in his heart because the people around him desensitize him.

There are certainly things out there worth arguing that people are desensitized to, but I don't believe words are one of them. Words are an entirely human creation, and their only value is that which we assign to them. The only reason that "bad words" are "bad" is that people believe them to be bad. Saying "Fuckidy fuck fuck fuck" doesn't desensitize people, it weakens the word. Ironically, this means the people that are most concerned with language are doing the most to preserve "bad words".

I guess this is just my own thinking here, but Sonic obvious has a very big sense of... I dunno... what's the word here... um... justice? Wait no, morality? I dunno, perhaps I'm saying a bit too strong a word for this franchise, but what word CAN you use to define the ability to be past regular human flaws?

...boring? A character without flaws isn't a character worth paying much attention to, at least if there's going to be any real story involved. Honestly now that I think about it that's been the case with him in most of the games...hm. Anyway, I don't think he was meant to be a squeaky-clean hero, either. I don't mean that he should delve into darkness and angst, but he really should have a bit of an edge to him, even if it's still a pretty family-friendly one. And I don't think the occasional use of a curse as light as "damn" is outside that range.

Shadow was just a pathetic way to appease the fans wanting darkness.

Yes, but keep in mind that it wasn't simply being dark that ruined it. It's a matter of wanting to be darker than the series reasonably can, and ending up halfassed because of it.

Hey, I've been there, but isn't it more rewarding to rise above things like cursing then to actually curse?

Not really. Like I said, I don't see the words as inherently bad. If a curse word communicates my meaning accurately, I see no reason not to use it. And specifically not cursing seems to get in the way; there's no truly effective way to curse without cursing, so you end up having to strangle a bit of meaning out of your sentences before you say them, for no real benefit.

(and I didn't curse, even though I could have, which is more effective? Hm?)

Probably would've been the cursing, if not for the hypocrisy it would entail. Though, a non-curse could work better if it was suitably attention-grabbing; again it's a case of the power we give words, the common curses are so played out that most people barely notice them, but something unique would catch their attention.

[Legendary Emerald]

Thank you for putting Eli's overblown sense of morality to shame, Diogenes. When I saw his post I thought I was going to have to launch a big argument for those of us who swear because we A. Want to, B. Think non-swears just sound ridiculous (Darn? Crud? I'll have trouble taking you seriously if you have such an infantile vocabulary), or C. think swearing makes everything funnier (until you go overboard, that is).

Luckily, you answered for me. Now I don't have to waste anymore time than I have writing this short little post. Kudos! Oh, but I must reply to this part, which you didn't get to:

"And that people want to pass off their flaws to those who have few. Hey, I've been there, but isn't it more rewarding to rise above things like cursing then to actually curse?" ~ Eli

Specifically, the "pass off their flaws to those who have few." You're not talking about Sonic characters right there, you're talking about "morally correct" people like yourself (presumably). What sort of elitism is that? All humans are severely flawed, no matter what religion or ideology they belong to. If you weren't one of those monks in those monasteries, you aren't any better than anyone else here because you don't use naughty words.

"I'm probably only one of the few people here who think this way, but for criyin' out loud! (and I didn't curse, even though I could have, which is more effective? Hm?)" ~Eli

For the record, "For crying out loud" (you couldn't even spell it right) is the most fucking retarded non-swear in existence. Thank you for reminding me of it. Just how old are you? Willing to bet your in middle school, because if you hadn't dropped your hatred of swearing by highschool, I'd be worried about your mental health.

Edited September 24, 2009 by Legendary Emerald

[blackherox]

I guess this is just my own thinking here, but Sonic obvious has a very big sense of... I dunno... what's the word here... um... justice? Wait no, morality? I dunno, perhaps I'm saying a bit too strong a word for this franchise, but what word CAN you use to define the ability to be past regular human flaws? Not saying Sonic is PERFECT, but he's better than most. The fact that he stood up to save his home when no one else did kinda shows his relationship with society, doesn't it?

I'd like to point your attention to Sonic Adventure 2, were Sonic while appearing ''heroic'' had more or less a complete disregard for law and order. He's constantly refereed to as ''living by his own rules'' which can at times lead him to conflict with others. I think there's a clear distinction between 'law abiding boy scott sonic' and 'own rules living heroic sonic'.

[Teoleulbogo]

I think it depends on the overal amount of story.I mean if they want a game with a very heavy and griping story(i.e. SA2)maby they should go darker tone,however if they want a more simple story with very few twists(i.e. Unleashed)then the game should probably be much more light-hearted.I personaly don't mind either way as long as there done whell.

[Chaotix Prime]

There are certainly things out there worth arguing that people are desensitized to, but I don't believe words are one of them. Words are an entirely human creation, and their only value is that which we assign to them. The only reason that "bad words" are "bad" is that people believe them to be bad. Saying "Fuckidy fuck fuck fuck" doesn't desensitize people, it weakens the word. Ironically, this means the people that are most concerned with language are doing the most to preserve "bad words".

I analyzed this before. Technically, it isn't morally incorrect to curl your lips and mutter pronunciations that sound like something dreaded by society. But the same on the same note, it technically isn't wrong to take your clothes off in public. Isn't THAT concept a human creation(at least, to an atheist)? The things we do around others define who we are.

Thank you for putting Eli's overblown sense of morality to shame, Diogenes. When I saw his post I thought I was going to have to launch a big argument for those of us who swear because we A. Want to, B. Think non-swears just sound ridiculous (Darn? Crud? I'll have trouble taking you seriously if you have such an infantile vocabulary), or C. think swearing makes everything funnier (until you go overboard, that is).

Luckily, you answered for me. Now I don't have to waste anymore time than I have writing this short little post. Kudos! Oh, but I must reply to this part, which you didn't get to:

"And that people want to pass off their flaws to those who have few. Hey, I've been there, but isn't it more rewarding to rise above things like cursing then to actually curse?" ~ Eli

Specifically, the "pass off their flaws to those who have few." You're not talking about Sonic characters right there, you're talking about "morally correct" people like yourself (presumably). What sort of elitism is that? All humans are severely flawed, no matter what religion or ideology they belong to. If you weren't one of those monks in those monasteries, you aren't any better than anyone else here because you don't use naughty words.

"I'm probably only one of the few people here who think this way, but for criyin' out loud! (and I didn't curse, even though I could have, which is more effective? Hm?)" ~Eli

For the record, "For crying out loud" (you couldn't even spell it right) is the most fucking retarded non-swear in existence. Thank you for reminding me of it. Just how old are you? Willing to bet your in middle school, because if you hadn't dropped your hatred of swearing by highschool, I'd be worried about your mental health.

Quite the opposite I realized. So go ahead and worry all you want. Thank you. And I'd like to say that realization that something is wrong doesn't mean you're devoid of doing it. No, I'm far from perfect.

P.S. You can spell words with a (') to replace a missing letter; like when you write contractions. I wrote "cryin'" out loud for more of a slang affect.

I'd like to point your attention to Sonic Adventure 2, were Sonic while appearing ''heroic'' had more or less a complete disregard for law and order. He's constantly refereed to as ''living by his own rules'' which can at times lead him to conflict with others. I think there's a clear distinction between 'law abiding boy scott sonic' and 'own rules living heroic sonic'.

True, that's a part of Sonic that can't die out. But I liked the Sonic from Sonic X season three, he seemed to have matured and I liked him for that. Not saying I cared for everything done in the Metarex saga, but I did like some things.

[Legendary Emerald]

"...criyin' out loud" ~ Eli

Look a bit closer at what you wrote. There is only one "I" in "Cryin'". Don't think I didn't notice that of all the things in my post, you chose to go after the very smallest issue. And you are just fundamentally wrong.

"Quite the opposite I realized."

That statement is just fundamentally wrong. Sure, swearing like a sailor doesn't make you seem mature, but saying "shit" or even "crap" makes you sound a lot more mature than the infantile users of "crud" and other non-swears. And the people who swear heavily usually do so for either comedic effect, or out of anger problems that would certainly be worse if they were not allowed to express their rage in words (rather than actions). Take your elitism somewhere else; I'm done with this conversation, because it's obvious you've been brainwashed by someone or other.

[Diogenes]

I analyzed this before. Technically, it isn't morally incorrect to curl your lips and mutter pronunciations that sound like something dreaded by society. But the same on the same note, it technically isn't wrong to take your clothes off in public. Isn't THAT concept a human creation(at least, to an atheist)? The things we do around others define who we are.

Not quite the same level, here; clothing does have the very real benefit of separating our bodies from anything (or anyone) we touch. I'm not sure I'd want to live in a world where my bare ass regularly comes into contact with things that other people's bare asses have come into contact with. It's bad enough in public restrooms, at least there there's a hole for all the unsavory leavings to go...

I do think it'd be nice if society didn't tend to condition us to be ashamed of our bodies, tho'. I'm no nudist, but the extent that some people freak out over a bit of skin is just excessive. Remember that Janet Jackson thing? Shouldn't have been even half the uproar it was.

Sure, swearing like a sailor doesn't make you seem mature, but saying "shit" or even "crap" makes you sound a lot more mature than the infantile users of "crud" and other non-swears.

Eh, depends on the context. There are levels, remember, and sometimes a "crud" is more accurate than a "shit" or a "crap".

Also, while I'll defend the right to swear, I'll just as soon defend the right not to swear. Whining about people not using real curse words seems far more childish than saying "crud" instead of "crap".

[Sean]

It's fucking retarded for Sonic characters to swear. Speaking out which, Shadow the game is kind of funny, because it encompasses every single thing stupid kids like me used to joke about in the 90s when we were in our tweens: "Hey, wouldn't it be funny if Sonic used a gun and swore all the time while he fought aliens?"

...Yeah.

[Legendary Emerald]

I truly don't care that he doesn't swear, even though I find his decision baffling and nonsensical. I just wanted him to know that he's no better than me because he keeps his mouth clean, and from the first post it seemed obvious to me that he felt superior to those of a more colorful vocabulary; but maybe I read to much into it.

Also, swearing isn't appropriate in all situations. I don't think that even needs to be addressed, as it is such common knowledge. I wouldn't shout "FUCK! What's with all these god damned bibles saving all the best fucking seats up in this bitch?!" while looking for a chair in a church; not even if I was going to videotape it and become a youtube star.

[Blazey Firekitty]

I think that could have easily been served with short cutscenes detailing Chip having flashbacks to prior encounters with Dark Gaia. It would have been a good way to introduce the viewer to the prospect that Chip could credibly have a serious side to him without sacrificing his comedic nature in other situations. It also would've rounded him off better and lent itself to doing away with the "woken up too soon" explanation altogether.

That actually sounds like a good, reasonable way to separate "This is how Chip usually is" with "This is how Chip is after having Sonic's bulk dropped on his head."

I actually never looked at the presence of Tails and Amy in that light before. That's quite the observation, and one I agree with. x3;; It would've definitely helped for Tails to have a bigger presence, if for no other reason than he's the one even ferrying Sonic in the first place and thus should logically be wherever he is at all times. It also could have potentially provided a nice dynamic and illuminated the value of both Tails and Chip as Sonic's best friends as both would naturally have differing views about Sonic's new form, and subsequently different ways of helping him deal with it.

It actually was quite strange that Tails didn't have more dialogue, considering he was transporting Sonic and Chip everywhere. I agree that Tails' reaction to Sonic's new form should have factored in more, helping Sonic to develop better as a character as he interacts both with his old friend and his new one.

I'm quite neutral to Amy following them around as I see no underlying reason for her to have done so, but I think at least she should've had bigger reservations with Sonic's new form. She mediates for a second but is back to her adoring ways too quickly, which is cute and a great show of tolerance, but at the same time a little concerning. There was no real thought to it; She deduced that her boyfriend had a new hairdo, shrugged it off, and went to hang around with Professor Pickle for the rest of the night (Isn't that quite the suggestive statement?).

While I thought the original encounter with Amy failing to recognize Sonic was handled well, I'll agree that the revelation that Sonic had transformed should have had more of an effect on Amy. The game generally seemed to portray her as rather calm and rational, but her split-second acceptance is a bit bizarre.

Speaking of him, why in the world did he even travel to Shamar in the first place? I understand he has a second lab there, but what was wrong with the one in Spagonia?

I'd presume that he wanted to be closer to Sonic's latest mission...but then again, that seems like a moot point, given that he never needed to be in the same nation Sonic was, before that point.

[Dr. Mechano]

I will say that killing Eggman in Shadow, canon or not, was far too dark for the series in my view- And no, that's not just because I'm a biased Eggman fan.

Eggman is, and always was, a goofy, amusing, lovable villain. Sonic Rush even shows Sonic defending Eggman's right to live when Blaze threatens to kill the man. I know that Shadow is an antihero who doesn't play by the same heroic rules that Sonic does, and that's fine- His willingness to kill Eggman is one thing, but to actually portray the successful murder of Dr. Eggman is- to me- going too far.

It's out of place and, frankly, a little disturbing to see an established lovable goof of a villain get the axe, canon or otherwise.

As for swearing, I don't mind swearing, but it's out of place in Sonic. I cannot imagine swearing in the Sonic series that doesn't sound contrived or forced.

Edited October 1, 2009 by Dr. Mechano