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Things you hate about your favorite games

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so Wraith made a topic on things you like about your most favorite games, so how about the reverse: what are things you hate about your most favorite games?

Sonic3-box-us-225.jpg

well sonic 3 is my favorite game period, I kind of don't like Sando-polis though, it's kind of slow, and boring a bit. it's a lot better than labyrinth zone for sure, at least sando-polis lets you go fast (and at least sonic 3 has a spin dash).

and while we're on the favorite-train.

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Sa2 is my 2nd-3rd favorite game, i don't know if I like this game or mania more. well when the levels work, they're fun, challenging and something I'd replay for hours, but keyword's "when the levels work". the trial and error in this game is too much, it drains my lives and it's just terrible, and I KNOW it's not just me going through this, don't lie to me. oh, and the gimped radar & the mechs bulky controls brings down the appeal a lot, it's not awful or anything, it's just a little problematic, is all. also the ghost are scary, has anyone not been scared by those things or is it just me?

now for generations.

SonicGenerations.jpg

a barebones story, a slightly inaccurate classic sonic, and a Sonic that controls like dodo when he isn't drifting. other than that it's an awesome game.

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It goes without saying that Sonic Mania is my favorite game (sharing the spotlight with Sonic 3&K), and anything I have to level against it will be trivial at best; but I have to say that I find it really annoying that I can't select the Special Stages specifically in any sort of Time Attack mode. They're one of, if not the best Special Stages in the series, and I'd like to just select them from a menu and practice them without having to enter into Mania Mode every time.

The other nitpick I have is with the design choice surrounding the Blue Spheres bonus stage. I love Blue Spheres, but the reward is disjointed from the main adventure, and that sort of thing bugs me: it doesn't even give you a score bonus or let you keep the rings you've collected.

While this is addressed with the Plus DLC by making the Trap Tower Pinball bonus game the bonus stage in Mania Mode once you've collected all gold medals, that's not something everyone is going to be able to do, and funnily enough I find it less fun than Blue Spheres to begin with. It's nice to be able to bring a shield with you from the mini game, but I think Sonic 3&K handled the bonus level setup better with 3 different stages that grant you different kinds of rewards.

Speaking of Sonic 3&K, I really don't have anything to say against it, especially with Sonic 3 AIR decking it out with so many features and fixes that it's without question the best Sonic experience I've ever played, Mania Plus included. If I had to say something I hated about it, it's that there's no way we're ever going to see it officially rereleased (remastered or otherwise) on consoles or mobile devices because of the hooplah surrounding it's soundtrack. It's so annoying.

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23 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

Speaking of Sonic 3&K, I really don't have anything to say against

I feel the same way. I like the subject of this thread since I think its an interesting topic, but personally I find it really, really difficult to come up with a genuine flaw in S3&K. I guess maybe that Sonic's elemental shield powers aren't as impressive as Tails and Knuckles respective unique abilities.

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sonic generations is rather short and has an incredibly barebones narrative

sonic 3 & knuckles... has marble garden i guess?

sonic unleashed has a downright awful progression structure

sonic and all-stars racing transformed's single-player modes' difficulty is so high it genuinely becomes overwhelming at points

sonic riders has a very, very steep learning curve, so i can't play it with friends or family at all

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Modern: Sonic Colours re-used its level bosses later in the game which is absolutely lame. Sonic Team, what were you thinking?

 

Classic: Sonic 2 I was disappointed to lose Tails before the final boss. (Mostly because I relied on his AI to get a few extra hits in on level bosses and I therefore I was ill-prepared for the difficulty spike of facing a final boss alone)

 

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Sonic 2 8-Bit:
Having the bosses be one-hit kills due to the lack of rings is probably THE biggest thing that makes the game so offensively hard for most players, and was certainly one of the biggest factors in slowing my progress on the game as I steadily got a little further through it each time as a kid.  Two of the chaos emeralds are also way too vague on how you get them.  Once you know the secret to them, there's almost no challenge at all, but until then, they're nigh impossible to reach/find.  After all the years it took me to finally reach the true final boss, it was a little disappointing that it didn't have unique music (although the boss music IS intense enough to work for it anyway).  Finally, the fact that the Game Gear version was deliberately redesigned in places to be harder, when the smaller screen already made it harder than the Master System version, also really didn't help the game's reputation as being too hard to be fun to play, especially considering the Game Gear version was the only way to play it outside of Europe until the Wii Virtual Console.

Sonic 3 & Knuckles:
Most issues with this game are fixed in Sonic 3 Complete or A.I.R., and said issues are MOSTLY nitpicks and minor things rather than truly hateful things.  So the only thing I truly dispise is that clearing Sky Sanctuary says "Sonic got through Act 1" when the title card didn't call it Act 1 and there's no further acts for it to BE an Act 1.  Grr.  Oh, and Sandopolis is kind of a chore at times, I guess.

Sonic Adventure 2:
Oh boy I love this game, it's one of my favourites, but it kind of gets by on nostalgia alone.  There's a lot to hate.  In terms of what affects me personally, it's pretty much just glitches and such getting in the way of the fun, but on a wider scope I've always hated that the Chao Gardens were tied to 100% completion, especially since even when gaming the system to the best of your ability and putting a fully upgraded Chao in, luck is still a factor that can cause your Chao to lose events on some of the higher difficulties.  The fact that you can do ALMOST everything with a single Chao turned Hero or Dark, but then you have to do all that raising over again to compete in the opposite alignment's races for one measly emblem, is also pretty offensive.  The second Tails vs Eggman fight is a low point on every playthrough.

Sonic Unleashed HD:

The A rank requirements are total garbage, especially once you get into the DLC, and the fact that there's no reward is extra agonising.  Like Sonic Adventure 2, there's plenty of glitches that get in the way of the fun, and while I, after several story playthroughs, have really gotten into a good groove of knowing how to quickly level up the Werehog to make him blast through stages, and how to regularly pick up medals as I go so I never hit any roadblocks from medal requirements - these elements are still very poorly thought out to a first time player.  Finally, while the Werehog Battle Theme is a good song as a piece of music, it's usage was terrible.  They should have just had it play for significant caged in fights rather than every single enemy, it should have had more introductions (there are actually four points in the song that it can start from once the intro is over to provide variety, but because the intro is always the same, it's hard to notice), or better yet, the composers should've done PSO-esque dynamic music, considering they were literally the same composers who worked on PSO. I guess they didn't consider it worth the effort as a single player game where most players would traverse each environment exactly once.  Beyond that there's a lot of stuff that I tolerate because I love the game overall, but just should be fixed if the game ever sees a re-release, such as the numerous insta-death QTEs towards the end of the game.  Finally, on a really pedantic note, while I like that this game re-introduced the "Act" terminology for stages, I feel it would've been better if the mandatory stages were referred to as "Main Act" and then you had "Extra Act 1, Extra Act 2" etc.  There's something off about going through an entire game of "Act 1's" and then all the other Acts being mini, gimmicky stages that will mostly be played much later on.  On a vaguely-related note, I do wish the loading screens presented the stage's title like most other Sonic games do, rather than every stage just having a generic loading screen.

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Sonic 2 has an utterly brutal finale thats needlessly precise and cruel, and oil ocean and metropolis really drag.

S3&K has an extremely poorly communicated barrel segment that was impassable for many players, as well as the length of the game making it feel a bit monotonous 

Sonic Adventure has wonky collision, a couple very poor character modes and cutscenes that dont even look well done for the time.

Sonic Mania's handling of the blue spheres segments makes them more annoying and overdone than fun, Hydrocity is hardly re-imagined and there should have been more original levels.

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Sonic 3: we never got the soundtrack for the game. That plus i would have liked that style of music in both it and s&k.

Sonic adventure 2: Its not really a adventure in the sense 1 was. And probably why though 1 has not aged well was more exciting to me. You ACTUALLY explored. you had to adventure around to find new things and areas. Adventure 2 was just handed to you. And sonic unleashed made you to fast that it was annoying to look around with face slamming a wall. 06 almost got it right if sega had taken their times and not rushed out a buggy mess

Sonic 06: The fact it could have been amazing if not rushed. seeing people applying fixes to it all these years later is amazing but the story back then was so chopped up and handed out that whenever i play it i question too much

generations: overhyped. The story was horrible. gameplay was honestly just hold down boost in modern and classic felt floaty. But better than forces cause there he felt fat and heavy

mania: good game for 2 to 3 playthroughs but after that has the same thing most sonic games have and that is long time replay value is just not there for me. ties into forces. Going for extra bits and red rings does noting for me. but sonic i guess is not really a game built around new game plus materials in a way say crash or spyro are.

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Knuckles Chaotix - I love this game but honestly what bugs me most about it is that you can't do Knuckles' classic super glide technique. I'm not sure if that's actually what it's called, but it's where you press and hold the glide button right as you jump on an enemy and you gain crazy height. Like at about 0:22 in this video.

 That's by far the most fun thing to do in the classics for me so it's saddening that it can't be done in Chaotix. This game is also in severe need of a stage select once you beat it. It sucks you can't revisit stages after clearing them.

Sonic Heroes - I really wish you could play super hard mode with all the teams. I was always so disappointed only Team Sonic could run through it, it would be so much more challenging as Rose or Chaotix.

Sonic Adventure - I really don't like that you can't play most stages as every character. I always thought it'd be such a neat unlock after getting all emblems, though Metal Sonic in DX was a really cool addition. One of my favorite things to do in this game was glitch into emerald coast and speed highway with characters who aren't supposed to be there. I also think it sucks that Big can't destroy enemies by jumping on them, I know he doesn't have a ton of enemies in his stages, but it just makes so much sense I sometimes still have to remind myself not to jump on the coconuts when replaying his stages. And the tornado stages are awful, it's always where I stop upon replays of the game. Plus to top it off they make you do it twice with Sonic and Tails. It's bologna.

And Sonic Riders -

2 hours ago, blueblur98 said:

sonic riders has a very, very steep learning curve, so i can't play it with friends or family at all

Yeah this, one million times this.

I guess these are more minor complaints and inconveniences rather than things I actively hate, but all these games are really special to me and I can look past most of the deeper rooted issues they may have that everyone always mentions when discussing them.

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3 hours ago, BadBehavior said:

Security Hall. That is all.

Yeah; I think up until those disorienting and boxy Ark stages from Shadow the Hedgehog, that was the worst level in Sonic history, and gumming up a widely beloved game, to boot.

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Going back to Sonic Unleashed HD

sonic-unleashed-box.jpg

1. Change the Homing Attack Button back to the Original Button Layout

Having the Homing Attack and Air Boost mapped to the same buttons was a horrible idea.

It works fine in the original layout in Colors & Generations.

 

2. The Werehog needs a Drop Shadow for Platforming & a Homing Attack Reticle for Grabbing

Finding out in the middle of a Jump that you're not going to land on a platform or Grab the bar, pole, or ledge because you didn't press the Grab Button in time is very frustrating and will ruin your score.

 

3. When the Werehog defeats Enemies, the Chaos Orbs (Experience) & Dark Gaia Force should automatically get sucked into him

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You know what really sucks. Masterfully defeating enemies in a Night Stage and watching them explode and see the Chaos Orbs go flying off into a pit or area Sonic can't access. It's not an issue during the day, so why should it be one at Night?

 

4. Have Messages Appear via Miles Electric when Countries, Levels, & Bosses are Unlocked

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I love Professor Pickle and chilling inside his lab. However, having to leave the Spagonia Entrance Stage after completing the Boss Key to go talk to him and then go back just to access the Boss Gate for Egg Devil Ray is silly. If there were a remake, I would have the Mile Electric post messages for updates when things are unlocked when Sonic exploring the Town/Entrance Stages or on the World Map instead of returning back and forth to the Lab to unlock stuff. Speaking of which, the shortcut to the Lab should always be available after getting access to it for the first time instead after beating the game.

 

5. Hot Dog Missions could use some Refining

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For some of the Missions, I wish you could either

  • Choose what difficulty level you want from the beginning
  • Get multiple Hot Dogs if you meet the Level 3 Criteria while doing Level 1/2

Speaking of which, I kind of wish the Hot Dogs had bonuses or some kind of power-up to make them more special outside of just giving Sonic 70 EXP. Also, is it weird, that once Sonic completes them, the vendors run out of supply forever? I mean you can replay them in the Stage Select but you won't get more Hot Dogs...

 

6. Eggmanland's Town Stage Should be Accessible after beating Tornado Defense Act 2

That one never made sense to me. Why is it only available after beating the game?

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3 hours ago, Sonictrainer said:

Going back to Sonic Unleashed HD

2. The Werehog needs a Drop Shadow for Platforming & a Homing Attack Reticle for Grabbing

 

6. Eggmanland's Town Stage Should be Accessible after beating Tornado Defense Act 2

Regarding 2, there is a homing attack reticle for grabbing, though your phrasing about "missing pushing the button" does highlight another thing I hate about Unleashed for how badly it ruins the first time playthrough and the game's overall reputation as a result - you don't have to push the grab button.  You can begin holding it at any point during your jump, and Sonic will automatically grab stuff as soon as the reticle appears, there's no need to time it whatsoever.  The game tells you this only in one of Prof Pickle's optional hints he gives out for bringing him souvineers.  Idiotic design.

Regarding 6, I think it makes sense that they want to keep the momentum of the finale going by going straight into the stage from the cut-scene, and it might be weird/confusing for players to plonk you in a hub that you didn't go to before if you quit during Eggmanland and come back to try again later.

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7 hours ago, JezMM said:

Regarding 6, I think it makes sense that they want to keep the momentum of the finale going by going straight into the stage from the cut-scene, and it might be weird/confusing for players to plonk you in a hub that you didn't go to before if you quit during Eggmanland and come back to try again later.

I'm sorry, my wording sucks for #6 in that last post.

In Sonic Unleashed HD, after Sonic & Chip skydive into Eggmanland and take photos while Eggman monologues, the game should then go into the Town Stage/Entrance Stage from that point, like every other other Country before. This way, players can relax a little before attempting Eggmanland, marvel at the Egg Fighter Residents with the Easter Egg Names, and also buy the last Souvenirs, Art Book, Videotape, Soundtracks, and garbage food options. Even the PS2/Wii Versions give you chance to catch your breath when Chip asks you if you're ready to try Eggmanland.

However, in the HD version players are thrown directly into the Main Act after completing Tornado Defense Act 2 and then 2 back to back Boss Battles with Egg Dragoon & Dark Gaia/Perfect Dark Gaia. There's no chance to breath or stop and save once you leave Shamar. I'm not sure why the game wants players to marathon the last Country and I believe this is one reason why Eggmanland leaves a bad memory for some people outside its difficulty in 6 separate Hedgehog & Werehog areas.

This reminds me of 2 other things.

 

7. There needs to be more freedom in Story Progression

On my first playthrough of Unleashed, after beating Tornado Defense Act 1, I originally thought the game would be similar to Sonic Rush Adventure and you'd complete 1 Day Act, 1 Night Act, maybe fight a Boss, and then do a Tornado Defense to unlock a new Country.

Imagine my surprise when I left Spagonia without any Rooftop Run Acts but then went straight to Mazuri and started off with a Night Act.

This wouldn't be an issue if it weren't for one thing: once you complete Tornado Defense Act 1, Sonic is roadblocked into any new areas until he does a specific thing. He can't leave Spagonia until he goes to Professor Pickle's Lab. He can't leave Mazuri until he completes Savannah Citadel Night Act 1. When Sonic leaves Spagonia a second time, the games gives you a Tutorial for the World Map, but then roadblocks Sonic into Mazuri again until he completes Savannah Citadel Day Act 1 and defeats the Egg Beetle. However, this happens again when he goes to Shamar for the first time...

If I were in charge of a remake, I would have players get the World Map Tutorial as soon as he leaves Spagonia for the first time and allow Sonic to leave any new area or return to Apotos if the player chooses. I would also have the Spagonia Entrance Stage accessible but restricted: players could do Rooftop Run Night Act 1 early to get one half of the Boss Key but can't access Rooftop Run Day Act 1 yet since they need the Stomping Shoes. Also, once players unlock a new Country, they should be able to choose which Act 1 they wanted to do first, similar to Generations (although certain Day Acts would require specific Special Shoes).

 

8. Townspeople Mission Progression can also be too varying in Difficulty

Like the Side Acts, some of the Missions have different difficulty curves. One of the hardest missions in the game called Missing Sister, a time trial in a Hard Mode Version of Arid Sands Day 1, is followed up by one of the easiest Missions, Shamarian Peace, an easier time trial Sonic has to defeat 30 enemies.

There are a few missions where Sonic can play harder versions of Levels at a point in the game where players haven't played the regular version yet. One example is Lunch Thief! where players have to do a Time Trial of a harder version of Rooftop Run Day Act 1 from the middle of the stage. This can be done before beating the second Boss, and the Day Act isn't available until after defeating said boss.

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23 minutes ago, Sonictrainer said:

I'm sorry, my wording sucks for #6 in that last post.

In Sonic Unleashed HD, after Sonic & Chip skydive into Eggmanland and take photos while Eggman monologues, the game should then go into the Town Stage/Entrance Stage from that point, like every other other Country before. This way, players can relax a little before attempting Eggmanland, marvel at the Egg Fighter Residents with the Easter Egg Names, and also buy the last Souvenirs, Art Book, Videotape, Soundtracks, and garbage food options. Even the PS2/Wii Versions give you chance to catch your breath when Chip asks you if you're ready to try Eggmanland.

However, in the HD version players are thrown directly into the Main Act after completing Tornado Defense Act 2 and then 2 back to back Boss Battles with Egg Dragoon & Dark Gaia/Perfect Dark Gaia. There's no chance to breath or stop and save once you leave Shamar. I'm not sure why the game wants players to marathon the last Country and I believe this is one reason why Eggmanland leaves a bad memory for some people outside its difficulty in 6 separate Hedgehog & Werehog areas.

Hmm, I'm afraid I simply disagree, personally.

Having Sonic yell "Let's tear it down" and then the game leaving you to pootle around in the hub and talk to friendly robots would kill the pacing of the finale if you ask me, and I'm not sure if you're suggesting this, but if you are - having you return to the hub world to manually enter the two boss fights via the hub entrance would also completely break the narrative flow of the fights taking place deep in the core of Eggmanland, interrupting the story arbitrarily with disconnected "video game stuff" when there's no need to.

I don't think having the hub world be playable beforehand would make anyone fonder of Eggmanland. People hate the marathon element of the stage itself, not the entire experience.  Having them mess around in the hub world isn't going to do anything to cure the fatigue that will probably be setting in about 20-30 minutes later as they fall off the Werehog pipe walking section halfway through the stage for the 10th time.

If I was tasked with "fixing Eggmanland" in a re-release, I would simply remove the lives system, remove the insta-death QTEs, fix the camera to be consistent during the pipe walking sections, and add the ability to save and quit mid-stage and have you continue from the last hourglass if you do, with a help message on the pause menu to explain that this is how saving works for this final stage.  I don't think adding a hub world beforehand would do anything other than make the finale feel less dramatic and Eggmanland less threatening (due to the friendly robots goofing off).  The cut-scene itself is enough of a breather between Tornado Defense and the stage itself, in my opinion.

Hell, I've always disliked that the Wii/PS2 version feels the need to add in that pointless text-based town cut-scene between the proper cut-scene and the Day Stage, where Chip loses his nerve and then... instantly regains it again. It comes off as if someone just liked the Eggmanland town theme and just wanted to make sure it appeared somewhere in the game lol.

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Oh yeah speaking of Unleashed, I don't know how I forgot this, but I actually hate how the Werehog theme plays EVERY TIME you get into a fight. Like honestly I don't understand how a single person thought that was a good idea. It's especially horrible when the night time soundtracks are so damn good, but it always gets interrupted by obnoxious trumpets.

On it's own the song is fine, but listening to it nonstop during stages that are upwards of 20 mins long especially when I'm just trying to vibe to the actual night time music is awful. It's made me outright despise that track.

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Sonic 1 master system

I hate that once you enter in the spike maze in the boss act of Labyrinth, you can't exit alive (level design flaw); I also hate that the emerald in Scrap Brain in hidden in an apparently bottomless pit with absolutely no hint.

Sonic Advance 2

I hate being forced to collect the emeralds with all the characters instead of sharing the emeralds with all of them like in Advance 1. I hate that boss endurance level before the final boss, it's just boring, and the actual final boss (regular) feels a bit cheap. The extra final boss though is my favorite in the series. I also hate how some character moves are unpolished and unbalanced... for example, Sonic's insta-shield is useless and the bounce resets all the momentum and won't let you gain height; the game would have been 100% more fun if the insta-shield was actually working and the bounce move woked like in the Adventure games.

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Sonic Mania has too many "blink and you miss it"  special stage rings and you can't get back to many. Don't remember it happening so much in previous classic games (it happens alot in general now), but I hate having to replay an entire level just to get to that one ring. It's done quite often in Mania, and even recent Kirby games. A design idea I can live without.

Sonic 3 has that Hyrdo City loop before you first run on top of the water, the glitch that makes Sonic stop completely occurs too often. Also, the legal crap surrounding this game recently preventing rereleases. Some levels drag like Sandopolis and Marble Garden.

SA1, Big the Cat, more the gameplay than character. Super Sonic was never officially made for levels. Chao races suck in this version, no control over who I cheer for.

Sonic Advance 1 has obnoxious enemy placement in the later levels. Dimps never seemed to learn a single lesson from it.

Sonic Rush Adventure has some obnoxious forced vehicles, anything other the water bike is not fun.

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11 hours ago, Iko said:

Sonic 1 master system

I hate that once you enter in the spike maze in the boss act of Labyrinth, you can't exit alive (level design flaw); I also hate that the emerald in Scrap Brain in hidden in an apparently bottomless pit with absolutely no hint.

My success rate on this is about 10% so I agree that it is absolutely brutal and poorly designed, but it IS possible to get out of the spike maze (though at least you don't LOSE anything if you at least manage to get the 1up, which isn't too hard so I tend to go for it each time lol).

Regarding the second point, I did manage to find it as a kid and I don't THINK it was through trial and error.  I guess it was to an extent, since trial and error is required to discover the extra life in Green Hill Act 3 - but once I had that, it put the idea in my mind that maybe things are hidden down pits sometimes.  This, coupled with the fact that you can see the EXIT to the Emerald area a little further ahead from these pits, and I think the game does hint at it a little.  Still not enough and definitely an example of dumb old game difficulty, but yeah, not as completely lacking in signposting as some old Sonic hidden areas.

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5 hours ago, JezMM said:

My success rate on this is about 10% so I agree that it is absolutely brutal and poorly designed, but it IS possible to get out of the spike maze (though at least you don't LOSE anything if you at least manage to get the 1up, which isn't too hard so I tend to go for it each time lol).

Regarding the second point, I did manage to find it as a kid and I don't THINK it was through trial and error.  I guess it was to an extent, since trial and error is required to discover the extra life in Green Hill Act 3 - but once I had that, it put the idea in my mind that maybe things are hidden down pits sometimes.  This, coupled with the fact that you can see the EXIT to the Emerald area a little further ahead from these pits, and I think the game does hint at it a little.  Still not enough and definitely an example of dumb old game difficulty, but yeah, not as completely lacking in signposting as some old Sonic hidden areas.

I remember that I managed to exit the spike maze only once in my life, and I thought it was due to a glitch... so apparently there's a consistent way to exit it? I should try again.

About the pits my experience was exactly the opposite. I can't remember precisely (I should play it again), but I think that in the Green Hill one it was possible to see the spikes and platform below by crouching and waiting the camera to scroll down, and that's how I and my brother found it as kids. I also found the Scrap Brain one alone, but it was pure trial and error, I did everything possible in the level, and when I still didn't find it, I started to fall into pits on purpose out of desperation.

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My favorite Sonic Game is without a doubt is Sonic Adventure 2: Battle: 

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For me the worst thing I hated was when a shard of the Master Emerald was glitchedly hidden and you couldn’t get to it, forcing you to reset the level as Knux or Rogue. 

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