Rally 4 Sally

[ChaddyFant9me]

I'm gonna be frank. I find it rather telling that the people that seem to insist the freedom fighters will work just fine seem completely uninterested in providing a means by which they can without compromising the entire structure of the series and continuity, if not being completely apathetic to said consequences all together, in a way I can't help but feel is utterly disrespectful.

[Zaysho]

29 minutes ago, ChaddyFant9me said:

I'm gonna be frank. I find it rather telling that the people that seem to insist the freedom fighters will work just fine seem completely uninterested in providing a means by which they can without compromising the entire structure of the series and continuity, if not being completely apathetic to said consequences all together, in a way I can't help but feel is utterly disrespectful.

I find this post telling you didn't read the thread at all or you'd probably have seen suggestions to rework her and the other characters into the games that were dismissed for even suggesting it at all, never mind this whole thing started to get the character into a fucking mobile gacha game.

[Blacklightning]

41 minutes ago, ChaddyFant9me said:

I'm gonna be frank. I find it rather telling that the people that seem to insist the freedom fighters will work just fine seem completely uninterested in providing a means by which they can without compromising the entire structure of the series and continuity, if not being completely apathetic to said consequences all together, in a way I can't help but feel is utterly disrespectful.

Point one: that's not our fucking job. Don't get me wrong, I'm greatful for the creative spurs that our community does have, but it's a tendency in the community that exsts out of desperation more than anything else - just because many people take their fandom to admirable extremes doesn't mean it should exist blanketedly throughout the entire community, because the onus isn't on them to implement it.

Point two: who says the continuity has to be compromised? Nothing says the characters can't be rebuilt to suit the game canon, rather than the game canon being rebuilt to suit the characters. That is after all, what happened when the Chaotix were bridged from obscure spinoff characters to an entire campaign in Sonic Heroes, or hell, exactly what happened the last time these very same characters appeared in the games themselves:

Point three: It is a remarkable self-own to get on people's cases for being apathetic by refusing to consider what the "consequences" of implementing certain characters at all could be, and then display that exact apathy yourself by refusing to actually elaborate on what those consequences even are - because this is a conclusion that's pretty difficult to reach by actually reading any of the fifteen pages of discussion that have already resulted from the subject. Sorry mate, but this one's all on you.

[Celestia]

46 minutes ago, ChaddyFant9me said:

compromising the entire structure of the series and continuity

They would simply not have to do that.

I don't think you've read this topic fairly. People have brought up ways to organically reintroduce these characters, it could literally be as simple as Sonic happening to go to wherever they are, having some adventure, and then leaving at the end. It's not some Herculean task.

 

I also feel like I'm living on another planet or something whenever people argue about any of this because very few people are actually asking for these characters to be added to the games. Hell as far as I know there hasn't been much momentum with the movement that this topic is actually about, and that's adding a single character to a mobile game without strict continuity restrictions.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

For starters, the structure and continuity of this series is a complete shambles as it is, changing on the flip of a hat to whatever flavour and tone SEGA feels like that week. Considering Sally and the FF would've slotted into Forces more or less fine as is, claiming it shatters continuity is a very moot point.

But alright, here's my idea of how things could go in IDW - since that more or less begins with Forces anyway.

First off, the Acorn Kingdom is simply several villages bundled together, around the same scale as something like Station Square, or New Mobotropolis. It's a fairly big city, sure - but it's not so huge that it'd be well known, or a massive landmark. It'd be an interesting pit stop more than anything.

Anyways, Eggman stumbles upon the Acorn Kingdom, and being the petty man he is, he finds it's very existence an insult. Not only is King Acorn being a "King" taken as an insult to Eggman, who believes he should be the only one fit to lead, but he finds it blatantly hypocritical as well. That it's all well and good when a flea-bitten rodent rules over a city, but when he tries to take over and rule the world, then suddenly it's a bad thing.

When Forces happens, Eggman - being as petty as he tends to be takes particular pleasure in messing with the Acorn Kingdom. Not only forcing King Acorn to become a janitor in one of his many factories (Chemical Plant, perhaps), but undermining his rule, and humiliating him, as well as punishing the Acorn Kingdom for "defying" him.

However, inspired by Sonic's heroics, and believing him to be dead (Since this is during his capture in space at the start of Forces), the king's daughter (Sally) decides enough is enough and leaves Castle Acorn, banding together several people to help fight back against Eggman's opposition of the city. Bringing together:

• Nicole - Her handheld computer - powered via a Red Star Ring
• Antoine - A cowardly soldier who King Acorn ordered to watch over Sally
• Rotor - A mechanic who makes gadgets from old badnik parts they can salvage
• Bunnie - Someone the group rescues on one of their first missions - she's undergoing the robot process that the Zeti attempted to perform on Tails in Lost World, and the group stop it in time to save Bunnie's brain and free will.

With that, and dubbing themselves the Freedom Fighters (Since the Resistance was already taken), they work out of an old cave on the outskirts of the Acorn Kingdom that they unofficially dub Freedom HQ, and fight back against Eggman in smaller ways, including destroying his patrolling badniks and Egg Pawns, taking down Eggman Empire propaganda, and saving people wherever they can. 

Due to the fact Eggman also practically stripped the royalty from The Acorn Kingdom, the Freedom Fighters would also be somewhat broke, forced to rely on gadgets that Rotor can build from destroyed Badniks, and from occasional help from the city's residents (Charles could potentially be added in the same role as Archie - the general uncle to the city's kids, who helps them out whenever he can, although he wouldn't have met Sonic here).

Later on - Sally could then become an interesting foil to Sonic. Similar to Tangle, Sally is a big Sonic fan. However, Sally has an idealised version of Sonic in her head. A brave, strong, charming, strategist who leads his friends into battle, and always has a plan. Then she ends up meeting the real Sonic, and having that ideal shattered. However, upon working together to dismantle a Eggman scheme, Sonic and Sally grow to respect each other's ways of dealing with problems, and see how they're both valid.

If you want to throw in an additional SatAM element, perhaps the Lake of Rings is actually a place where the occasional Red Star Ring spawns, which is how the kingdom ended up on Eggman's radar to begin with.

After that, Sonic moves on, as he does when he helps out another village, or city, and that's it. They aren't mainstay characters, they're simply another band of side characters that Sonic occasionally bumps into on his adventures, same as Tangle and Whisper.

If you want to go further as to why happened to it during the first two IDW arcs - Metal Sonic - trying to please Eggman, and knowing he has a particular grudge with this village goes ahead and makes sure it is kept occupied during the first arc where Eggman goes missing. However, Sonic's revealed as being alive, as well as the Resistance's victory gives the FF a morale boost. 

During the Metal Virus arc, it - alongside the village that housed Mr. Tinkerer are his two first stops with the Metal Virus.

Not perfect, but I like to think it's a fair enough way to bring things in. Not that it really matters, given the context is putting Sally into a non-canon mobile game, but this is more to show it isn't exactly that difficult to work the FF into the already given context of IDW, at least.

[The gameboy69]

am I the only one who finds this rally almost POINTLESS! Just getting sally acorn into an irrelevant mobile game is such a big waste of time. I bet when she gets in all of the rally4sally members would quickly lose interest after a couple of weeks of getting her in and eventually uninstall the game. It’s not like she is going to get into mainline game any time soon lmao. Why won’t people just shut the fuck up about satAM and the comics already and move the fuck on. You don’t see fleetway fans whining and crying about evil super sonic not being in the games or adventures of sonic the hedgehog fans crying about scratch and to and extent grounder not being robotnik’s main henchmen.

i don’t see the appeal of satAM at all. The show is so fucking BORING and lame. I like how people say robotnik is such a powerful and menacing villain while that’s only because of how much they downplayed sonic in the show and made him a total wimp. That’s my number one gripe I have with this shitshow. In the games sonic can single handily decimate all of eggman’s bases by himself even in the classic games. He blasted through scrapbrain zone and metropolis and destroyed eggman’s death egg more than enough times without any help but in satAM he can barley leave a scratch on the robotropolis even with help. If sonic was portrayed as accurately as he was in the games, robotropolis  would have been on its knees in no time. Not to mention the main reason sonic was downplayed so much is because of the freedom fighters. He needs sally as some kind of leader and general when going to robotniks base even though he is completely capable of doing that all by himself in the games. I absolutely despise how they portray tails in the show too. He has been shafted to a pointless side character and rarely interacts with sonic. He even has less prominence In he show than Antoine. One of the most pointless and annoying characters I’ve seen the sonic franchise next to big the cat and Chris thorndyke. It seriously reminds me of how much sega has ruined tails in the modern games like sonic forces where he can’t even defend himself. The character trait of tails being a mechanic has been stripped from him and given to rotor just leaving tails as the generic kid brother of the show. It was just deteriormental to the characters and this is why I don’t see the freedom fighters working in the games very much unless they are completely revamped. Robotnik has been turned into a typical dictator and he has been stripped of any personality other than OOOooOoo I’m soooooo EVIL and SCARY ooOoOooo. It’s so tryhard. Another thing that’s a glaring thing in my opinion is how robotnik never found knothole already in he show. The most obvious thing he should have did was just destroy the entire forest until he finds knothole. That’s the main thing he should have been doing. 

Coming back to how boring the show is I don’t see the appeal. The art style is just generic, dull and lame. And There is nothing that stands out compared to the other sonic shows that have been made. Aosth was surreal, colorful and wacky and had a distinct feel. Sonic underground while I don’t like this show either was similar to satAM but had some sort of a surreal and colorful feel like aosth. Sonic X so far has my favorite artstyle and aesthetic because it’s very reminiscent of yuji uekawa’s sonic adventure/advanced artwork. SatAM is comparable in blandness to the sonic boom cartoon. The plot is interesting but has been done in such a sluggish and boring way. It’s either just sonic trying to take out robotnik’s base or just some out of place filler episode most of the time. I legit fell asleep when watching one of the episodes and I was shocked I did so.

I still wonder today why so many people like this show it’s praised for all the wrong reasons.

[Tornado]

2 hours ago, ChaddyFant9me said:

I'm gonna be frank. I find it rather telling that the people that seem to insist the freedom fighters will work just fine seem completely uninterested in providing a means by which they can without compromising the entire structure of the series and continuity, if not being completely apathetic to said consequences all together, in a way I can't help but feel is utterly disrespectful.

Everyone else covered things pretty nicely, but I'll address the elephant in the room:

 

Which ban dodging member are you? I ask because you're clearly one of them, and the sooner we get this over with the sooner you can make some other account to spam up a bunch of navel gazing threads with posts devoid of any real introspection but dressed up as Devil's Advocate arguments.

[ChaddyFant9me]

4 hours ago, Tornado said:

Everyone else covered things pretty nicely, but I'll address the elephant in the room:

Which ban dodging member are you?

I ask because you're clearly one of them, and the sooner we get this over with the sooner you can make some other account to spam up a bunch of navel gazing threads with posts devoid of any real introspection but dressed up as Devil's Advocate arguments.

 

 

 

 

Excuse me? Is this how people typically behave here?

My god. I make a new account a like a week or 2 ago and suddenly im a troll just for being engaging in conversation?

Check my post history for petes sake.

This behavior all but reasserts my point.

Its just a cabal shutting down all dissent, more or less bullying users that dare express concerns at the proposition in an attept at creating an echo chamber.
 

 

[ChaddyFant9me]

15 hours ago, Blacklightning said:

Point one: that's not our fucking job. Don't get me wrong, I'm greatful for the creative spurs that our community does have, but it's a tendency in the community that exsts out of desperation more than anything else - just because many people take their fandom to admirable extremes doesn't mean it should exist blanketedly throughout the entire community, because the onus isn't on them to implement it.

But at that point you arent engaginng in the texture of the conversation though.

If one truly believes that a given thing could and should work, then it goes without saying that they should be able to give examples of how it could be done. The assertion makes no sense otherwise and it becomes evident the claim isn't substantiated by anything.

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Point two: who says the continuity has to be compromised? Nothing says the characters can't be rebuilt to suit the game canon, rather than the game canon being rebuilt to suit the characters.

 

The Freedom Fighters and what makes them them is far too rigid to be implemented into the main continuity without massively derailing it and usurping the functions of characters we already have.

It comes off as wanting them in for the sake of it, as if it "validates their existence more" as opposed to actually wanting them in while maintaining their integrity, or because they would actually bring something worthwhile to the main game continuity.

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That is after all, what happened when the Chaotix were bridged from obscure spinoff characters to an entire campaign in Sonic Heroes, or hell, exactly what happened the last time these very same characters appeared in the games themselves:

 

 

This isnt comparable for reasons that were brought up in this topic already.

The Chaotix only work because there was so little to them in the first place. So much so that until we got info about mandates and such recently, most people didnt even know Knuckles' Chaotix wasnt canon and that they were rebooted at all. All the relevant elements of the Chaotix were preserved and simply added and elaborated upon in Heroes as opposed to having to radically change them to the point they effectively become different characters with a similar character model/sprite, something I feel still wouldnt work anyway because the Freedom Fighters don't work unless their a package deal. The Chaotix also fulfilled a niche that wasnt covered in the series already, as the bumbling "3man band" akin to Team Rocket you see in a lot of anime.

 

As for Spinball, Sonic Team didnt even make that game, and it only further exemplifies my point since all the actual game chatacters are conspicuously missing. SpinBall was very clearly made by STI without the feedback of the original devs, and is clearly based on the AoStH/SatAm continuity by extension, and one need only look at said continuity to see how it affects the presence of the games actual main cast.

 

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Point three: It is a remarkable self-own to get on people's cases for being apathetic by refusing to consider what the "consequences" of implementing certain characters at all could be,

Thats...not how consequences work. We already know what it is. Nothing happens. You are trying to pull a "no, you" here and it isnt really working.

 

Second, yes i very much HAVE considered it. I have over the course of a decade which is why i am confident in saying it wouldnt work.

You'd have an easier time implementing Scratch & Grounder, or Sonia and Manic into the main game continuity than the FF because unlike them, The FFs entire existence is too densly informed by the context of their series, one which is designed around what is largely a context far far divorced from the main context of the games.

Sally needs a group to be a leader, she needs a kingdom to be the heir to, she needs a rebelious blue hedgehog to constantly have to keep in check, and she needs an insurmountable foe to fight.

The only real way ive ever thought of that you could implement them in, is via AU shenanigans to make em fish out of water. Have the story be about them being warped to the main continuity and by the end they get sent back, and focus on Sally coming to terms with the difference between her AU and the games, and have it be a point of relfection for her when she and her group get sent home.

Personally, I would be good with that, but i can already hear the groans from people that hate that kind of thing.

Now, Im all for being proven wrong, but that would require actually providing examples of how it could work.

 

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and then display that exact apathy yourself by refusing to actually elaborate on what those consequences even are - because this is a conclusion that's pretty difficult to reach by actually reading any of the fifteen pages of discussion that have already resulted from the subject. Sorry mate, but this one's all on you.

Thats...not how apathy works. If i didnt care, i just wouldnt have posted.

This topic has already throroughly gone over why it wouldnt work though. The result has simply been FF fans calling people meanies and telling them to "stop being haters" under their breath for daring to disagree, and im.not gonna lie it was paingul to watch/read.

[ChaddyFant9me]

14 hours ago, Ryannumber1Scarer said:

For starters, the structure and continuity of this series is a complete shambles as it is, changing on the flip of a hat to whatever flavour and tone SEGA feels like that week. Considering Sally and the FF would've slotted into Forces more or less fine as is, claiming it shatters continuity is a very moot point.

How is this an argument in favor of it though? Its effectly saying "well your series is already broke so who cares if it makes you upset, at least we get what WE want".

People who are invested in the games continuity regularly express desire to get it back on track and this decision is effectively telling them they are all wrong for it, and is incredibly callous as a result.

 

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But alright, here's my idea of how things could go in IDW - since that more or less begins with Forces anyway.

I personally do not have any reservations in regards to their presence in the comics. Have at it, as far as I see it. 

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First off, the Acorn Kingdom is simply several villages bundled together, around the same scale as something like Station Square, or New Mobotropolis. It's a fairly big city, sure - but it's not so huge that it'd be well known, or a massive landmark. It'd be an interesting pit stop more than anything.

Anyways, Eggman stumbles upon the Acorn Kingdom, and being the petty man he is, he finds it's very existence an insult.

That sounds pretty OOC for Eggman. Give him a real reason to want to invade the kingdom. Make em have a powerful relic or something that he wants to use for an evil scheme.

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Not only is King Acorn being a "King" taken as an insult to Eggman, who believes he should be the only one fit to lead, but he finds it blatantly hypocritical as well. That it's all well and good when a flea-bitten rodent rules over a city, but when he tries to take over and rule the world, then suddenly it's a bad thing.

The main game continuity, and from what I can tell, the IDW comics, dont have this weird racial divide between the Animal characters and the humans that SatAM and Archie comics had. 

Everyone are just people. There is no delineation.

Eggman wouldnt randomly have this vendetta against a guy just because he's an animal character.

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When Forces happens, Eggman - being as petty as he tends to be takes particular pleasure in messing with the Acorn Kingdom. Not only forcing King Acorn to become a janitor in one of his many factories (Chemical Plant, perhaps), but undermining his rule, and humiliating him, as well as punishing the Acorn Kingdom for "defying" him.

However, inspired by Sonic's heroics, and believing him to be dead (Since this is during his capture in space at the start of Forces), the king's daughter (Sally) decides enough is enough and leaves Castle Acorn, banding together several people to help fight back against Eggman's opposition of the city. Bringing together:

• Nicole - Her handheld computer - powered via a Red Star Ring
• Antoine - A cowardly soldier who King Acorn ordered to watch over Sally
• Rotor - A mechanic who makes gadgets from old badnik parts they can salvage
• Bunnie - Someone the group rescues on one of their first missions - she's undergoing the robot process that the Zeti attempted to perform on Tails in Lost World, and the group stop it in time to save Bunnie's brain and free will.

With that, and dubbing themselves the Freedom Fighters (Since the Resistance was already taken), they work out of an old cave on the outskirts of the Acorn Kingdom that they unofficially dub Freedom HQ, and fight back against Eggman in smaller ways, including destroying his patrolling badniks and Egg Pawns, taking down Eggman Empire propaganda, and saving people wherever they can. 

Due to the fact Eggman also practically stripped the royalty from The Acorn Kingdom, the Freedom Fighters would also be somewhat broke, forced to rely on gadgets that Rotor can build from destroyed Badniks, and from occasional help from the city's residents (Charles could potentially be added in the same role as Archie - the general uncle to the city's kids, who helps them out whenever he can, although he wouldn't have met Sonic here).

Later on - Sally could then become an interesting foil to Sonic. Similar to Tangle, Sally is a big Sonic fan. However, Sally has an idealised version of Sonic in her head. A brave, strong, charming, strategist who leads his friends into battle, and always has a plan. Then she ends up meeting the real Sonic, and having that ideal shattered. However, upon working together to dismantle a Eggman scheme, Sonic and Sally grow to respect each other's ways of dealing with problems, and see how they're both valid.

Im noticing a suspicious lack of any of the actual game cast here, or any relation to the main continuity for the matter, but I digress. Given Tails is shown to be able to reverse the process the Zeti did quite easily, you'd have to establish that Bunnie likes the upgrades and decided to keep em.

Also, wouldn't it make more sense for Sally to actually be wrong for once in this situation?  In this type of character arc, the logical thing would be for her to become disallusioned with Sonic  only to get herself in trouble when she tries to handle everything by herself so rigidly, then have Sonic come in when she gets in trouble due to her hubris. Sonic would then come and tell her they need to work together in the situation and Sally admits Sonic has a point. Sally learns that sometimes you have to go with your gut and act on how ya feels, remembering it was the thing that spurred her to take charge to begin with. They stop Egghead, you get the picture.

One of the things people, especially in this topic constantly menstion is how annoying the "Sally can never be wrong" attitude in the dynamic is. Id personally like this to be a break from that if it theoretically happened at all. Allow Sally to be fallible and grow.

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If you want to throw in an additional SatAM element, perhaps the Lake of Rings is actually a place where the occasional Red Star Ring spawns, which is how the kingdom ended up on Eggman's radar to begin with.

After that, Sonic moves on, as he does when he helps out another village, or city, and that's it. They aren't mainstay characters, they're simply another band of side characters that Sonic occasionally bumps into on his adventures, same as Tangle and Whisper.

If you want to go further as to why happened to it during the first two IDW arcs - Metal Sonic - trying to please Eggman, and knowing he has a particular grudge with this village goes ahead and makes sure it is kept occupied during the first arc where Eggman goes missing. However, Sonic's revealed as being alive, as well as the Resistance's victory gives the FF a morale boost. 

This doesnt line up. We were told Metal Sonic was undergoeing his upgrades during forces in IDW, and that he took control immediately after the Docwhen missing and sent out search parties for him while also building up an assault fleet for Angel Island.

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During the Metal Virus arc, it - alongside the village that housed Mr. Tinkerer are his two first stops with the Metal Virus.

Not perfect, but I like to think it's a fair enough way to bring things in. Not that it really matters, given the context is putting Sally into a non-canon mobile game, but this is more to show it isn't exactly that difficult to work the FF into the already given context of IDW, at least.

In Virus saga, i dont think its really possible to have em participate meaningfully. They would have to very quickly and sloppily get fodderized by the zombots and effectively dusted under the rug for the arc, which..okay, If thats what you want, but i dunno if most people would.

Even then, this setup leaves no room for the actual FF besides Sally to do anything, which... i dont care either way but I also think fans would be disapointed.

[E-122-Psi]

7 hours ago, The gameboy69 said:

i don’t see the appeal of satAM at all. The show is so fucking BORING and lame. I like how people say robotnik is such a powerful and menacing villain while that’s only because of how much they downplayed sonic in the show and made him a total wimp. That’s my number one gripe I have with this shitshow. In the games sonic can single handily decimate all of eggman’s bases by himself even in the classic games. He blasted through scrapbrain zone and metropolis and destroyed eggman’s death egg more than enough times without any help but in satAM he can barley leave a scratch on the robotropolis even with help. If sonic was portrayed as accurately as he was in the games, robotropolis  would have been on its knees in no time. Not to mention the main reason sonic was downplayed so much is because of the freedom fighters. He needs sally as some kind of leader and general when going to robotniks base even though he is completely capable of doing that all by himself in the games. I absolutely despise how they portray tails in the show too. He has been shafted to a pointless side character and rarely interacts with sonic. He even has less prominence In he show than Antoine. One of the most pointless and annoying characters I’ve seen the sonic franchise next to big the cat and Chris thorndyke. It seriously reminds me of how much sega has ruined tails in the modern games like sonic forces where he can’t even defend himself. The character trait of tails being a mechanic has been stripped from him and given to rotor just leaving tails as the generic kid brother of the show. It was just deteriormental to the characters and this is why I don’t see the freedom fighters working in the games very much unless they are completely revamped. Robotnik has been turned into a typical dictator and he has been stripped of any personality other than OOOooOoo I’m soooooo EVIL and SCARY ooOoOooo. It’s so tryhard. Another thing that’s a glaring thing in my opinion is how robotnik never found knothole already in he show. The most obvious thing he should have did was just destroy the entire forest until he finds knothole. That’s the main thing he should have been doing. 

I am going to say that I feel like most of the Satam/Archie continuity (at least early on) felt written and conceived by people who didn't really care much at all about games and likely never even touched one. You can say that the games barely had any story but let's be frank, turning it into that for better or worse wasn't the only way of developing it to a cohesive plot. Early SatAm concepts did feel like they made light but appreciative links to how the games worked, but it was still very much its own thing.

Would it be wrong to say I don't find Big the Cat or Chris 'pointless'? I mean I completely get why people don't like them but I think they also demonstrate how differently the games system usually works. The games universe does not have everyone hiding in units to oppose the dictator that is Robotnik. Eggman is pretty much the local goofball villain. Threatening sometimes sure, but still usually a standard cartoon bad guy who comes up with wacky schemes. Forces based itself closer to the SatAm approach but the thing there was that Forces was a ONE OFF, it was Eggman's big 'Team Rocket Wins' moment, similar to the Shaolin Showdown instance where the bungling Jack Spicer actually took over the world in one timeline. It shows Eggman can be creditable as a villain when the heroes get too complacent but it doesn't make him interchangeable with how his SatAm incarnation worked.

I don't want the Forces approach to be permanent, I actually feel like IDW used it just to keep things streamlined. Light hearted storytelling isn't necessarily EASIER. If anything I'd argue everyone not being just soldiers of all the same motives and being individuals having to be led into the plot in some character driven way is a tougher way about it, hence why the Adventure-Next Gen era is so divisive in its handling. I like guys like Big exist, that there are characters who are just minding their own business and only come into the story based on their own personality infused motives. Making him soldier 123444 whose family was murdered by Eggman would just dilute what makes him unique.

Now to say the SatAm story couldn't get a light adaptation in some way with some translations isn't particularly true. I could see Eggman using Mobotropolis as a starting point to make Eggmanland, he could even adapt robotocization as his next big breakthrough (though likely have some wackier take on it like making Robians into theme park vendors in place of his Egg Pawns, again this is Eggman, not Julian Robotnik) and Sonic could meet up with Freedom Fighters and so forth. But right now straight after Forces, would it be bad to say I want them to first have a return to what made the earlier games stories unique, colourful character driven stories where everyone comes in based on their own unique motive, no matter how petty.

[ChaddyFant9me]

7 hours ago, The gameboy69 said:

am I the only one who finds this rally almost POINTLESS! Just getting sally acorn into an irrelevant mobile game is such a big waste of time. I bet when she gets in all of the rally4sally members would quickly lose interest after a couple of weeks of getting her in and eventually uninstall the game. It’s not like she is going to get into mainline game any time soon lmao. Why won’t people just shut the fuck up about satAM and the comics already and move the fuck on. You don’t see fleetway fans whining and crying about evil super sonic not being in the games or adventures of sonic the hedgehog fans crying about scratch and to and extent grounder not being robotnik’s main henchmen.

i don’t see the appeal of satAM at all. The show is so fucking BORING and lame. I like how people say robotnik is such a powerful and menacing villain while that’s only because of how much they downplayed sonic in the show and made him a total wimp. That’s my number one gripe I have with this shitshow. In the games sonic can single handily decimate all of eggman’s bases by himself even in the classic games. He blasted through scrapbrain zone and metropolis and destroyed eggman’s death egg more than enough times without any help but in satAM he can barley leave a scratch on the robotropolis even with help. If sonic was portrayed as accurately as he was in the games, robotropolis  would have been on its knees in no time. Not to mention the main reason sonic was downplayed so much is because of the freedom fighters. He needs sally as some kind of leader and general when going to robotniks base even though he is completely capable of doing that all by himself in the games. I absolutely despise how they portray tails in the show too. He has been shafted to a pointless side character and rarely interacts with sonic. He even has less prominence In he show than Antoine. One of the most pointless and annoying characters I’ve seen the sonic franchise next to big the cat and Chris thorndyke. It seriously reminds me of how much sega has ruined tails in the modern games like sonic forces where he can’t even defend himself. The character trait of tails being a mechanic has been stripped from him and given to rotor just leaving tails as the generic kid brother of the show. It was just deteriormental to the characters and this is why I don’t see the freedom fighters working in the games very much unless they are completely revamped. Robotnik has been turned into a typical dictator and he has been stripped of any personality other than OOOooOoo I’m soooooo EVIL and SCARY ooOoOooo. It’s so tryhard. Another thing that’s a glaring thing in my opinion is how robotnik never found knothole already in he show. The most obvious thing he should have did was just destroy the entire forest until he finds knothole. That’s the main thing he should have been doing. 

Coming back to how boring the show is I don’t see the appeal. The art style is just generic, dull and lame. And There is nothing that stands out compared to the other sonic shows that have been made. Aosth was surreal, colorful and wacky and had a distinct feel. Sonic underground while I don’t like this show either was similar to satAM but had some sort of a surreal and colorful feel like aosth. Sonic X so far has my favorite artstyle and aesthetic because it’s very reminiscent of yuji uekawa’s sonic adventure/advanced artwork. SatAM is comparable in blandness to the sonic boom cartoon. The plot is interesting but has been done in such a sluggish and boring way. It’s either just sonic trying to take out robotnik’s base or just some out of place filler episode most of the time. I legit fell asleep when watching one of the episodes and I was shocked I did so.

I still wonder today why so many people like this show it’s praised for all the wrong reasons.

Putting your...hottakes on SatAM aside, its very simple. AoStH, Underground and from my understanding, Sonic the Comic were more in line structurally and/or conceptually with the games than SatAM was, which by and large is its own thing all together and and is so far removed from the games, its incompatible.

 

This creates a problem because unlike Fleetway fans, there isnt anywhere for SatAM fans to actually go to get more of what they want, and the effective termination of them from the comics has only made it worse for these fans.

[E-122-Psi]

8 hours ago, Ryannumber1Scarer said:

Later on - Sally could then become an interesting foil to Sonic. Similar to Tangle, Sally is a big Sonic fan. However, Sally has an idealised version of Sonic in her head. A brave, strong, charming, strategist who leads his friends into battle, and always has a plan. Then she ends up meeting the real Sonic, and having that ideal shattered. However, upon working together to dismantle a Eggman scheme, Sonic and Sally grow to respect each other's ways of dealing with problems, and see how they're both valid.

I admit to not minding the idea of a conflict here. I think that was what left me underwhelmed by the Genesis arc trying to reinvent a potential meet up in the games, Sonic and the Freedom Fighters just instantly got on cozy and he and Sally just felt like they were meant to be together. Again I feel like there's a struggle to convey Sally's ugly side in the comics, when if anything that makes her interesting and complex. Sally likely WOULDN'T get along with Sonic at first glance. Hell they might even have a big childish fall out and go separate ways. I think a key here however is I'd want a case where the story would cosmically punish BOTH characters, where both Sonic's impulsiveness and Sally's by the book-ness (and their equal bull headedness about it) would backfire equally horribly and they would both suffer the same ephihany because neither extreme is fool proof. They might even play with the idea of them being not-so-different, maybe Sonic would become overprotective or Sally would do something reckless to save her team. The very key area here however is that they would have to make BOTH characters acknowledge it in-universe. I think one being 'the reasonable one' would just be a one-note way of handling it. It would be way too easy to either just make Sally the sitcom wife that was right the whole time and Sonic just being reckless, or alternative do the 'don't question Sonic' formula that was in some earlier games stories.

That they somehow have an inability with this for over two decades that just leaves me uneasy about it. It looks even less likely in this era of 'strong serious heroine' archetypes being all the rage who don't 'do' humility moments or having moments of outright bungling or pratfalling. That's what the boneheaded boys who don't listen to them do. Truthfully maybe this is why I think Tangle is more what we need at this point. There's a draught of wacky goofy female characters in fiction right now. Sally would just be playing to trends.

[Wraith]

9 hours ago, ChaddyFant9me said:

without compromising the entire structure of the series and continuity,

Points like this are basically a trap and aren't worth humoring. The freedom fighters wouldn't actually have a bearing either way on Sonic's continuity. They'd actually be less harmful than the space/time/reality bending anomalies that we've fought in the last 8 games because they're a concept thats small scale and isolated. They don't have any bearing on Sonic's world and don't make any suggestions about past events. 

[ChaddyFant9me]

58 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Points like this are basically a trap and aren't worth humoring.

This says alot about yout aproach to this conversation...

You conceptualise any misgivings or concerns about the idea as gaslighting from the jump, refusing to engage with the conversation at all.

Given you've openly stated you would rather the games just become like the comics and believe they would be better off for it, this is not surprising.

 

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The freedom fighters wouldn't actually have a bearing either way on Sonic's continuity. They'd actually be less harmful than the space/time/reality bending anomalies that we've fought in the last 8 games because they're a concept thats small scale and isolated.

Thats not hooe things work. The reason that alternate dimensions work is because it alloes things to be compartmentalised and easily ignored.

 

If the Freedom Fighters exist in the game continuity, we have to consistently wonder what they are doing if Eggman isnt onstantly attacking them, or what they are doing while Eggman is foing other things.

Eggman himself has to be bent i to a pretzel to justify giving a darn about the freedom fighters, and the established cast need to be dumbed down if not outright ignored to allow the FF room to breath and matter.

Whatsmore is they inhibit the ability to have interesting environemnts for levels and such as their conflict would be restricted to a small issolated area.

 

It is disingenuous to claim they would create no complications at all, let alone less just because weve had extra dimensional affairs in the series, when the context behind each scenario is more relevant than the form it resides in.

 

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They don't have any bearing on Sonic's world and don't make any suggestions about past events. 

But in order for them to function  they have to be given an unreasonable amount of attention. Otherwise it feels like they are simply being shoehorned in just to claim they are in the game continuity, as if that is some kind.of validation or accomplishment in of itself.

The thing about characters in the main continuity is they either bring something to the table or compliment existing characters in some form.

The FF dont do that. They instead suck energy and attention on to themselves and away from otger areas in order to justiy their presence.. and this is saying something given the existing cast is often already subject to either being shoehorned where they dont belong or wrongfully neglected.

 

 

 

[Wraith]

14 minutes ago, ChaddyFant9me said:

This says alot about yout aproach to this conversation...

You conceptualise any misgivings or concerns about the idea as gaslighting from the jump, refusing to engage with the conversation at all.

Given you've openly stated you would rather the games just become like the comics and believe they would be better off for it, this is not surprising.

I dont take Sonic fans who feign concern about a continuity they openly resent seriously, no. I'm one of the few who's actually mostly fine with where the games went before gens-forces. I've been open about that too. 

 

14 minutes ago, ChaddyFant9me said:

Thats not hooe things work. The reason that alternate dimensions work is because it alloes things to be compartmentalised and easily ignored.

 

If the Freedom Fighters exist in the game continuity, we have to consistently wonder what they are doing if Eggman isnt onstantly attacking them, or what they are doing while Eggman is foing other things.

No we don't.

14 minutes ago, ChaddyFant9me said:

Rggman himself has to be bent i to a pretzel to justify giving a darn about the freedom fighters, and rhe established cast need to be dumbed down if not outright ignored to allow the FF room to breath and matter.

Whatsmore is they inhibit the ability to have interesting environemnts for levels and such as their conflict would be restricted to a small issolated area.

 

It is disingenuous to claim they would create no complications at all, let alone less just because weve had extra dimensional affairs in the series, when the context behind each scenario is more relevant than the form it resides in.

 

None of these things were problems when Eggman was targeting random islands or places like Little Planet for their power sources in the classic games. 

 

14 minutes ago, ChaddyFant9me said:

But in order for them to function  they have to be given an unreasonable amount of attention. Otherwise it feels like they are simply being shoehorned in just to claim they are in the game continuity, as if that is some kind.of validation or accomplisent in of itself.

The thing about characters in the main continuity is they either bring something to the table or compliment existing characters in some form.

The FF dont do that. They instead suck energy and attention on to themselves and away from otger areas in order to justiy their presence.. and this is saying something given the existing cast is often already subject to either being shoehorned where they dont belong or wrongfully neglected.

 

 

 

The next Sonic thing that comes out will probably have new characters that it focuses on whether you like it or not.

[Kuzu]

8 hours ago, The gameboy69 said:

am I the only one who finds this rally almost POINTLESS! Just getting sally acorn into an irrelevant mobile game is such a big waste of time. I bet when she gets in all of the rally4sally members would quickly lose interest after a couple of weeks of getting her in and eventually uninstall the game. It’s not like she is going to get into mainline game any time soon lmao. Why won’t people just shut the fuck up about satAM and the comics already and move the fuck on. You don’t see fleetway fans whining and crying about evil super sonic not being in the games or adventures of sonic the hedgehog fans crying about scratch and to and extent grounder not being robotnik’s main henchmen.

i don’t see the appeal of satAM at all. The show is so fucking BORING and lame. I like how people say robotnik is such a powerful and menacing villain while that’s only because of how much they downplayed sonic in the show and made him a total wimp. That’s my number one gripe I have with this shitshow. In the games sonic can single handily decimate all of eggman’s bases by himself even in the classic games. He blasted through scrapbrain zone and metropolis and destroyed eggman’s death egg more than enough times without any help but in satAM he can barley leave a scratch on the robotropolis even with help. If sonic was portrayed as accurately as he was in the games, robotropolis  would have been on its knees in no time. Not to mention the main reason sonic was downplayed so much is because of the freedom fighters. He needs sally as some kind of leader and general when going to robotniks base even though he is completely capable of doing that all by himself in the games. I absolutely despise how they portray tails in the show too. He has been shafted to a pointless side character and rarely interacts with sonic. He even has less prominence In he show than Antoine. One of the most pointless and annoying characters I’ve seen the sonic franchise next to big the cat and Chris thorndyke. It seriously reminds me of how much sega has ruined tails in the modern games like sonic forces where he can’t even defend himself. The character trait of tails being a mechanic has been stripped from him and given to rotor just leaving tails as the generic kid brother of the show. It was just deteriormental to the characters and this is why I don’t see the freedom fighters working in the games very much unless they are completely revamped. Robotnik has been turned into a typical dictator and he has been stripped of any personality other than OOOooOoo I’m soooooo EVIL and SCARY ooOoOooo. It’s so tryhard. Another thing that’s a glaring thing in my opinion is how robotnik never found knothole already in he show. The most obvious thing he should have did was just destroy the entire forest until he finds knothole. That’s the main thing he should have been doing. 

Coming back to how boring the show is I don’t see the appeal. The art style is just generic, dull and lame. And There is nothing that stands out compared to the other sonic shows that have been made. Aosth was surreal, colorful and wacky and had a distinct feel. Sonic underground while I don’t like this show either was similar to satAM but had some sort of a surreal and colorful feel like aosth. Sonic X so far has my favorite artstyle and aesthetic because it’s very reminiscent of yuji uekawa’s sonic adventure/advanced artwork. SatAM is comparable in blandness to the sonic boom cartoon. The plot is interesting but has been done in such a sluggish and boring way. It’s either just sonic trying to take out robotnik’s base or just some out of place filler episode most of the time. I legit fell asleep when watching one of the episodes and I was shocked I did so.

I still wonder today why so many people like this show it’s praised for all the wrong reasons.

This may come as a shock to you, but people are capable of liking things that you may not like yourself. Crazy concept I know, but it happens. 

[ChaddyFant9me]

28 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I dont take Sonic fans who feign concern about a continuity they openly resent seriously, no. I'm one of the few who's actually mostly fine with where the games went before gens-forces. I've been open about that too. 

Where have I expressed open resentment of SatAM? I even CALLED OUT someone for doing so, and took the time to express my symparhy towards fans of said continuity. But as you've demonstrated, the mere act of expressing dissent towards the idea of their intergration into the games is open hate apparantly. Its insufferable.

 

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No we don't.

 

None of these things were problems when Eggman was targeting random islands or places like Little Planet for their power sources in the classic games. 

Several entire Mystical Islands and an entire planet is much more ground to span over and leaves much more room to have different environments than a single kingdom. They also were Genesis games with that as a conceit for the limited story presentation. Let's not kid ourselves. It not only restricts environment, but room to tell a story beyond the scope of the FF.

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The next Sonic thing that comes out will probably have new characters that it focuses on whether you like it or not.

And I really dont care, just like I didnt care that Boom was made into its own thing. What I care about is taking things from one and using it to surplant the other, which you've openly expressed content towards doing. Its scathing.

[Wraith]

6 minutes ago, ChaddyFant9me said:

Where have I expressed open resentment of SatAM? I even CALLED OUT someone for doing so, and took the time to express my symparhy towards fans of said continuity. But as you've demonstrated, the mere act of expressing dissent towards the idea of their intergration into the games is open hate apparantly. Its insufferable.

I'm talking about the main Sonic canon. The thing that everyone seems to think is beyond broken but also worth protecting from the outside influence of...a series that uses a lot of the same concepts with better worldbuilding, and better character writing? Hm. 

6 minutes ago, ChaddyFant9me said:

Several entire Mystical Islands and an entire planet is much more ground to span over and leaves much more room to have different environments than a single kingdom. Lets not kid ourselves. It not only respricts environment, but room to tell a story beyond the scope of the FF.

A made up kingdom can be as large and diverse as you want it to be. This makes no sense. 

 

6 minutes ago, ChaddyFant9me said:

And I really dont care, just like I didnt care that Boom was made into its own thing. What I care about is taking things from one and using it to surplant the other, which you've openly expressed content towards doing. Its scathing.

Pretend you've never seen the Freedom Fighters before and that they're new characters then. The next Sonic game is likely not going to be about your favorite characters regardless. 

[Tornado]

3 hours ago, ChaddyFant9me said:

 

Excuse me? Is this how people typically behave here?

My god. I make a new account a like a week or 2 ago and suddenly im a troll just for being engaging in conversation?

You weren't engaging in conversation, just like E-122-Psi wasn't. You were regurgitating stupid shit from the first page of this 16 page thread as if it was a profound point, even though there are indeed 16 pages of people pointing out that points ike "Freedom Fighters being in a Sonic game completely destroys the sanctity of the series" is grandstanding nonsense that takes ten seconds to think through.

 

And 16 pages of thread that I know you saw, since you burned through the entire thread throwing likes at everyone who pushed the same bad faith arguments; and you framed your first post in this thread as if anyone who's hadn't bought into those arguments in this thread as being disrespectful. 

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Check my post history for petes sake.

I did. That's exactly why I'm asking, and why I specifically said what I said. 

Quote

 

 

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Its just a cabal shutting down all dissent, more or less bullying users that dare express concerns at the proposition in an attept at creating an echo chamber.

Yawn. That didn't work when E-122-Psi tried it. Try another one. 

[Kuzu]

You know, for a series that's supposed to be about a free spirited character, some of you are extremely close minded on accepting anything that goes against your specific interpretation of how things should be.

Yes, sometimes things will happen in this series that don't always line up, and sometimes it may even contradict something you may have set up in your head. Its not a big deal, because this happens all of the time in literally...every piece of media.

 

 

[ChaddyFant9me]

34 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I'm talking about the main Sonic canon. The thing that everyone seems to think is beyond broken but also worth protecting from the outside influence of...a series that uses a lot of the same concepts with better worldbuilding, and better character writing? Hm. 

Im still waiting for you to tell me where i expressed open hatred to SatAM.

Nobody thinks the main canon is BEYOND fixing if they actually care about said continuity. Your favorite toy canbget damaged but that doesnt mean you suddenly stop cating about it, nor does it justify someone coming along and throwing it in the trash to make room for theirs.

Also, SatAM doesnt use a lot of the same concepts at all, and what base concepts it does you, it does so in completelt different ways and for conpletely different reasons with completely different intent.

Sonic doesnt use rings from his uncle to spin. Robots arent citizens that get transformed into robots. Eggman isnt discriminatory to animal characters, nor is he truing to usurp dome throne. Sonic isnt a freedom fighter working in an organisation.

By all metrics, the only thing that is compatible is that Sonic is in itm

 

 

 

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A made up kingdom can be as large and diverse as you want it to be. This makes no sense. 

Humor me. Give a one shot of a theoretical plot that would actually justify going to different locations within the context of Sally's kingdom while also having sonic have to interact with them.

 

I really dont it how you could.

 

The last time we had Sonic bogged doen by having to go to some kingfom and chase after a princess, the game had to constantly leave the kingdom to have different environments, only for the story to have Sonic do nothing but go back and forth between the two doing nothing of interest as a result. And everyone hated it.

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Pretend you've never seen the Freedom Fighters before and that they're new characters then.

And now you have to awkwardly shoehorn Sonic into his SatAM role that doesnt make sense for the character, let alone with the presence of the existing cast who already poised to back him up whetyer he wants it or not.

How do you justify Sonic giving a damrn about the Freedom Fighters and actually having to work with them, let alone in absence of the existing cast?

 

 

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The next Sonic game is likely not going to be about your favorite characters regardless. 

 

When did this become a contest of whose fave character gets to be in a game? For the record, my fave character is actually Sonic, so yes im sure he will be in the next Sonic game. Beyond tha5, my second fave character is Omega, who i quite frankly DO NOT WANT in every Sonic game. He doesnt need to be. He is much better served as a compliment to Shadow.

 

But here's my point manifested. You arent concerned with the coherence of their presence, just whether or not they get to be in a game, the consequences be damned, and it shows how little you care about the existig continuity as opposed to the SatAm/Archie one.

 

20 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

You know, for a series that's supposed to be about a free spirited character, some of you are extremely close minded on accepting anything that goes against your specific interpretation of how things should be.

What does being free spirited have to do with being closeminded or not? Last I checked, Sonic's attitude was that of someone who doesnt give in or compromise if anything.

 

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Yes, sometimes things will happen in this series that don't always line up, and sometimes it may even contradict something you may have set up in your head.

 

Thats some very interesting selective wording there.

Anyway, what you are describing is called inconsistent writing, and its viewed as a bad thing. That isnt really up for debate or personal interpretation. 

Quote

 

Its not a big deal, because this happens all of the time in literally...every piece of media.

Soemthing happening a lot doesnt suddenly make it okay. Thats how you become complacent with subpar works and a medium loses integrity.

 

Im not asking that the games be some iron clad air tight masterpiece of writing because quite frankly its never been. But i do not see it as reasonable for it to be completely mangled on a dime to appease a group who seeemingly do not care about the continuity in the first place, or at least not enough to respect its right to integrity, in favor if their own.

[Kuzu]

17 minutes ago, ChaddyFant9me said:

What does being free spirited have to do with being closeminded or not? Last I checked, Sonic's attitude was that of someone who doesnt give in or compromise if anything.

Trying to constrain and pidgeonholing the series into one specific thing.

17 minutes ago, ChaddyFant9me said:

Thats some very interesting selective wording there.

Anyway, what you are describing is called inconsistent writing, and its viewed as a bad thing. That isnt really up for debate or personal interpretation. 

And it happens all of the time even in media that's considered good, because nothing is absolutely flawless. Sometimes shit happens outside of anyone's control.

17 minutes ago, ChaddyFant9me said:

Soemthing happening a lot doesnt suddenly make it okay. Thats how you become complacent with subpar works and a medium loses integrity.

 

Im not asking that the games be some iron clad air tight masterpiece of writing because quite frankly its never been. But i do not see it as unreasonable for it to be completely mangled on a dime to appease a group eho seeemingly do not care about their continuity in the first place, or at leastx not enough to respect its right to integrity.

It is unreasonable when you consider the mere idea of these concepts existing alongside the games as "mangling".

These "problems" you keep bringing up are not as big as you think they are, and that's not "accepting subpar works" that's compromising that yes, sometimes things will change and it may be good or bad. That's literally the risk you take when you consume any piece of media, there's never a guarantee that its going to great.

 

This is the Sonic series, the most inconsistent and incomprehensible mess of a series ever. Its been literally everything under the sun, but NOW merely theorizing adding the Freedom Fighters to the games is "going too far". But when the series was furry DBZ, that was completely acceptable?

[The gameboy69]

 

3 hours ago, Kuzu said:

This may come as a shock to you, but people are capable of liking things that you may not like yourself. Crazy concept I know, but it happens. 

Oh no I voiced my own opinion and questioned why people like that show so much and pointed out it’s flaws. Lock me up in jail I guess. 

4 hours ago, ChaddyFant9me said:

Putting your...hottakes on SatAM aside, its very simple. AoStH, Underground and from my understanding, Sonic the Comic were more in line structurally and/or conceptually with the games than SatAM was, which by and large is its own thing all together and and is so far removed from the games, its incompatible.

 

This creates a problem because unlike Fleetway fans, there isnt anywhere for SatAM fans to actually go to get more of what they want, and the effective termination of them from the comics has only made it worse for these fans.

Then they will just have to grow up, adapt and move on. Everything eventually has to come to an end. satAM fans had a comic series running for DECADES before ending. Is that not enough!? That’s way more than what fans of underground,aosth and fleetway fans had. I just think they are acting so spoiled.

 

4 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

I am going to say that I feel like most of the Satam/Archie continuity (at least early on) felt written and conceived by people who didn't really care much at all about games and likely never even touched one. You can say that the games barely had any story but let's be frank, turning it into that for better or worse wasn't the only way of developing it to a cohesive plot. Early SatAm concepts did feel like they made light but appreciative links to how the games worked, but it was still very much its own thing.

Would it be wrong to say I don't find Big the Cat or Chris 'pointless'? I mean I completely get why people don't like them but I think they also demonstrate how differently the games system usually works. The games universe does not have everyone hiding in units to oppose the dictator that is Robotnik. Eggman is pretty much the local goofball villain. Threatening sometimes sure, but still usually a standard cartoon bad guy who comes up with wacky schemes. Forces based itself closer to the SatAm approach but the thing there was that Forces was a ONE OFF, it was Eggman's big 'Team Rocket Wins' moment, similar to the Shaolin Showdown instance where the bungling Jack Spicer actually took over the world in one timeline. It shows Eggman can be creditable as a villain when the heroes get too complacent but it doesn't make him interchangeable with how his SatAm incarnation worked.

I don't want the Forces approach to be permanent, I actually feel like IDW used it just to keep things streamlined. Light hearted storytelling isn't necessarily EASIER. If anything I'd argue everyone not being just soldiers of all the same motives and being individuals having to be led into the plot in some character driven way is a tougher way about it, hence why the Adventure-Next Gen era is so divisive in its handling. I like guys like Big exist, that there are characters who are just minding their own business and only come into the story based on their own personality infused motives. Making him soldier 123444 whose family was murdered by Eggman would just dilute what makes him unique.

Now to say the SatAm story couldn't get a light adaptation in some way with some translations isn't particularly true. I could see Eggman using Mobotropolis as a starting point to make Eggmanland, he could even adapt robotocization as his next big breakthrough (though likely have some wackier take on it like making Robians into theme park vendors in place of his Egg Pawns, again this is Eggman, not Julian Robotnik) and Sonic could meet up with Freedom Fighters and so forth. But right now straight after Forces, would it be bad to say I want them to first have a return to what made the earlier games stories unique, colourful character driven stories where everyone comes in based on their own unique motive, no matter how petty.

I agree with your first statement with the makers of the early comics and satAM that they didn’t have much knowledge of the games and I think that’s just a fundamental flaw that has grown. Sure the classic games had incredibly simply stories but even still they could have still made something good with the material that was in the games and not make a show that completely isolated what sonic is actually about. The 90’s Mario cartoons are a good example of this. While the games had simple stories they still used the games as the basis for the cartoons and made new creative ideas while still remaining faithful to the source material. Sonic satAM fails at this. I doesn’t even feel like a sonic cartoon.  

You are comepletely fine for liking characters like Chris and big the cat. I just find those characters awful and irrelevant and I have actual points to support my reasons why. 

In my opinion again sonic adventure 2 characterized eggman almost flawlessly. He is still a bit of a goofball but he was still a villain to take seriously and there isn’t  anything in the game that makes it look like he’s trying so hard to be evil and scary. He shows how smart and calculating he is like when he had Amy at gunpoint and tricked sonic into entering the rigged escape pod when giving the fake emerald while also outsmarting tails doing the said trick at the same time.  The thing I like about eggman in the games is how goofy and egotistical he is yet menacing and evil he can be since it reflects how unhinged and crazy he is. satAM robotnik Just doesn’t have this at all and lacks all the charm robotnik has in the games. 

While I can see things like robotocization working in the games I don’t see much of any other stuff that originated in satAM working at all. 

[Kuzu]

30 minutes ago, The gameboy69 said:

 

Oh no I voiced my own opinion and questioned why people like that show so much and pointed out it’s flaws. Lock me up in jail I guess. 

Not what I said.

You asked "why do people like this show" and I pointed out that people are allowed to like things that you don't care for.

Absolutely nobody who likes SATAM and thinks highly of it needs to justify to you why they like it or think its good.