Rally 4 Sally

[Wraith]

Not wanting Sonic to be chained to a nagging wife archetype is a valid enough concern but the character you're describing sounds a lot more like modern Tails than it does Ian's take on Sally. The only times the series got close to the nagging wife archetype you're describing is Tails busting Sonic's balls in Colors and Lost World without really having to deal with any heat or forced to have any introspection in return. All the while he covers most bases of exposition with his tablet and can do things like get out of being captured on his own so no other characters even need to show up. The Freedom Fighters at least relied on eachother in contrast with Sally often leading charges and planning strategies around everybody participating. Tails in his modern iteration invalidates the need for Sonic to have any support or foils because he's doing it all. Sonic and Sally found a natural rhythm when it came to working together long before post reboot anyway and didn't run into a ton of actual drama. I think she's a good foil in the sense that they balance eachohter out and have some fun interactions. It's not always about who's keeping Sonic in check.
 

27 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

, as shown with Tails' obsession with not-always-fool-proof machines when Sonic just states a simpler solution. That to me is a healthier dynamic where both characters balance out each other.

Like...when did this ever happen in a newer Sonic game? What? 

[Celestia]

7 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

 

Sounds like best move. Best case scenario, hater will have to reconsider his views. Worst case scenario, Flynn shows he's not being petty.

Showing you're bigger man is best kind of revenge.

It's funny because most of the fucking weirdos anti Ian group I see seem to genuinely believe he hates the FF and he's why they're currently gone, and are probably just going to assume he's lying. It's like a fascinating glimpse into another world.

Fortunately they're a ~Movement~ of like...20 people maybe, so it literally doesn't matter, but yeah.

[Kuzu]

Ya know people, Sonic is allowed to have more than one foil and all of them aren't better or worse than the other.

There's literally nothing stopping Sally from being as effective of a foil as Tails so...Im not seeing the issue...

[E-122-Psi]

57 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Not wanting Sonic to be chained to a nagging wife archetype is a valid enough concern but the character you're describing sounds a lot more like modern Tails than it does Ian's take on Sally. The only times the series got close to the nagging wife archetype you're describing is Tails busting Sonic's balls in Colors and Lost World without really having to deal with any heat or forced to have any introspection in return. All the while he covers most bases of exposition with his tablet and can do things like get out of being captured on his own so no other characters even need to show up. The Freedom Fighters at least relied on eachother in contrast with Sally often leading charges and planning strategies around everybody participating. Tails in his modern iteration invalidates the need for Sonic to have any support or foils because he's doing it all. Sonic and Sally found a natural rhythm when it came to working together long before post reboot anyway and didn't run into a ton of actual drama. I think she's a good foil in the sense that they balance eachohter out and have some fun interactions. It's not always about who's keeping Sonic in check.
 

Like...when did this ever happen in a newer Sonic game? What? 

I admit I might be cheating in that area and using Boom as a primary example. Tails' machinery often suffered a complexity addiction with Sonic getting moments of being the straight man to it (eg. making a disastrous cleaning machine, Sonic suggests 'using a broom'). Of course there are still times Sonic is reckless and arrogant, but they tended to play these pretty much 50:50, while Sonic and Sally it's clearer the times Sally's ethics are flawed are the distant exception, not the rule, which of course has effect on Sonic's personality due to flanderizing his negative qualities more often.

Even then though Colors and Lost World do show glimmers of this sort of dynamic, they make clear that while Sonic is cocksure and reckless, Tails isn't exactly all-knowing. Even within all the controversy about  Tails' handling in Lost Worlds we get that scene where he confidently rebuilds Cubot, with him chastised by Sonic when the monstrosity nearly kills him when he's not paying attention. It was a bit of an isolated moment but it worked as sort of a personality demonstration of Tails' niche and how it doesn't always work out, while with Sally.  I tended to feel like they felt they could only make her go wrong if she broke character and acted reckless like Sonic and even then it's only  really her that's allowed to call her out on it. Only designated strawmen or misguided characters like Hamlin or Mina were allowed to call her out on the repercussions her actions had and were almost certainly conveyed as harsh and wrong. Sally was still generally not someone who was challenged often, even in their attempts to make her 'not so above it all'.

My primary concerns with Sally 'dominating' the limelight was how much damn screen time was devoted to them bickering. Just...bickering not stop. Often no one else could really get in a word edge wise, they loved this constant arguing shtick about them. There wasn't really a lot of foil development among the other Freedom Fighters, besides Antoine being Sonic's straw loser and kick stand for insults. Rotor dissolved in terms of interactions after the earliest episodes and comics and Bunnie never really had a chemistry with Sonic at all. You could argue that indeed Tails has gained some 'nagging sitcom wife' elements but even then he feels like he has more mutual elements to Sonic and that more of their interactions don't just consist of them arguing and disagreeing, and even some of their clashes felt way more playful (not to say Sally is ALWAYS like this and they don't have warm moments, but they did the 'clashing opposites' thing A LOT).

[Ryannumber1gamer]

13 hours ago, Wraith said:

I don't know what to tell you except that I think it is very basic. Eggman takes over the kingdom of Acorn, which has it's own history that the games can choose to delve into. . This history would be different from the comics by necessity but they can choose how much they take from it and how much they make up on their own. Eggman is usually after some kind of weapon or power source in the games so you can pull from the comics there or make up something new

The core of the character is simple. A level headed but young and inexperienced monarch feels a great obligation to make things right for her people/family and has to team up with a personality that she doesn't gel with to do so. That's not just simple, it's been done in these games before. To great acclaim. 


The rest of them are her crew.  A lot this is based on the idea that every FF needs their own campaign or something when that's not really the case. You can choose to what degree you dig into their history but preserving their personalities and dynamics would be easy and that's the actual important part. Some of them would get more shine than others but, again, that's literally always been the case with any extended cast in anything. 

I'm guessing one of the elephants in the room that you keep hinting at but never elaborate on is Robotization, and I wouldn't actually mind if they introduced it for a game and dropped it. There are ways to make it look like a natural fit for the Sega characters:  and perhaps Eggman doesn't keep it because the effects aren't what he'd like them to be. Uncle Chuck was able to regain some free will in the American canon, so who's to say a game couldn't take that concept and run with it? What if Sonic was introduced to a group of bots he couldn't just smash through in conscience? What if appealing to their personal relationships had to be the goal? If this worked, Eggman would probably end up dropping it and going back to his old tactics. 

There's my pitch. Like it or not, it proves it can be done. Maybe they don't get this right, but you can say that for anything anyone suggests so it feels like a moot point. 

I also wanted to add that on the subject of roboticisation, the games already added an aspect that would allow Bunnie and such to easily slot into place. Lost World showcased Tails undergoing a very similar process to Bunnie where he had several cybernetic parts attached to him.

True, he was able to shred them later, but we already know Tails had screwed with the machine beforehand, so it’s possible he also changed how the process works. So I don’t think it’s really that far out there to imply after Lost World, Eggman might’ve been testing it on other animals.

[Wraith]

5 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

I admit I might be cheating in that area and using Boom as a primary example. Tails' machinery often suffered a complexity addiction with Sonic getting moments of being the straight man to it (eg. making a disastrous cleaning machine, Sonic suggests 'using a broom').

Boom tails and modern tails are two completely different characters

 

5 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

Even then though Colors and Lost World do show glimmers of this sort of dynamic, they make clear that while Sonic is cocksure and reckless, Tails isn't exactly all-knowing. Even within all the controversy about  Tails' handling in Lost Worlds we get that scene where he confidently rebuilds Cubot, with him chastised by Sonic when the monstrosity nearly kills him when he's not paying attention. 

 

If this is all it takes to make a well rounded foil then I'm happy to say Sally won't have much trouble meeting your expectations.

[Tornado]

7 hours ago, Natie said:

Forgot you were me.

7 hours ago, Natie said:

Ahhh, I'm realizing your presumption now, me having distaste for SatAM has led you to believe I'm some kind of SoJ purist who doesn't like anything that isn't cannon.

Hmm.

18 hours ago, Natie said:

Thanks to the comic they got a much longer stint of relevancy than any generic 90's Don Bluth wannabe cast filler furries could ask for.

15 hours ago, Natie said:

Considering classic Sonic, like, *is* Sonic, yknow, from the actual games, and not a side character from an american cartoon made by people none too interested in the source material.

14 hours ago, Natie said:

The true cannon was established with the release of the very first game, what are you on about? Also, SoA handed out their license to whoever promised to make good PR, they even had their own lore for Sonic that was completely different to the actual game devs vision. We had 3 cartoons that all did their own distinct idea, so I dont think that "blessing" has that much integrity. The SatAM artists first tried designing Robotnik as a dragon warlock for christs sake, I dont think they cared that much about the actual source material.

Forgive me for my presumptuousness. I now see that I shouldn't have taken you tripping over yourself in every post in the process of parroting the same dumb shit brought up constantly as actually meaning that you believe it.

 

7 hours ago, Natie said:

Was my comment ungraceful? Perhaps, but the initial few replies had me thinking the project was acting toxic and obnoxious,

On 8/22/2020 at 10:34 AM, MetalSkulkBane said:

This movement has purely positive energy to it. It's not "boo, ban this" or "fire that writer". It doesn't even have bitter rivarly with anyone (like in Smash) since pretty much everyone already is in IOS games. maybe Sticks It's fairly unlikely things get toxic.

And unlike say "Sally for IDW", adding Sally can't be detrimental for other characters, if anythings might get more people interested n Sonic games. So it's hard to find drawback

21 hours ago, KoDaiko said:

Same opinion. As long as they keep it civil and positive, go for it. 

I saw Ian mentioning the hashtag and supporting it, so I guess there's that.

Whatever you say.

 

 

Quote

so I thought it was all too appropriate to be more brutally honest about the fanaticism surrounding these characters.

There's more to "brutal honesty" than just being an asshole. Perhaps keep that in mind next you jump in a thread to go on a tangent shitting on things because you think it's deserved for justification you've imagined.

[E-122-Psi]

25 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Boom tails and modern tails are two completely different characters

 

If this is all it takes to make a well rounded foil then I'm happy to say Sally won't have much trouble meeting your expectations.

Well, no. I agree that Tails felt like a slapdash baseline for how he's supposed to be in Lost World. Maybe that's why I interchange him too much with Boom Tails because Boom Tails kinda felt like that direction for him WRITTEN WELL, which I admit is a kind of flimsy way of looking at it in hindsight.

It's hard to really define my complications with Sally. I guess I always saw her as the team mom, but an overbearing overprotective know-it-all mom who always tried to decide every step the team made and was legitimately shocked and hurt whenever someone was unhappy with it. Like well intentioned and obviously not unjustified at many points (this is a war where she's lost MANY people), but still someone who needs to get told to step down sometimes, especially since so very often we saw Sally couldn't practice what she preached, acting as reckless as the people she chastised or getting on people's case for telling HER what to do. There's always this feeling that Sally had troubles relating to other characters and had this 'I know what's best for everyone more than they do' outlook, which isn't a bad flaw at all, so long as it was developed as one in-universe and pointed out to her sometimes, which it seldom was. Enabled most of the time with very few moments of humility, this archetype actually ends up pretty insufferable and unlikeable.

This is generally why the best straight men still get plenty not-so-above-it-all moments when they're conveyed as self righteous and shown to not always have the right answer as often as they think (see Twilight Sparkle for example, a character who is similar to Sally in many areas but does get these negative condescending qualities utilised in universe and how they affect her dynamics with other characters). Contrary to what writers thought, Sally DID have an ego, maybe not a narcissistic ego like Sonic's but still an overbearing one in a different area. If anything that would have applied to the 'so different yet so similar' aspect of them if they'd went with that, rather than trying to convey her as so much more lucid and down to earth than him that they barely had anything in common.

Like I feel Sonic and the Secret Scrolls is one of my favourite character displays for her. She sets up a plan with the others and is legit excited about it, she even practically sets up their vehicle as a nice surprise for Sonic....only for him to be bluntly unimpressed and point out all the flaws. Sally is quite hurt by this, she is quite assured she has thought everything through, and pretty much throws a tantrum and tells Sonic they're doing it whether he likes it or not. Though when the plan inevitably goes wrong, she does begrudgingly admit her mistake and thank Sonic, begrudgingly because Sonic does call her out in his usual playful gloating sort of way that he usually saves for other characters. I feel like if we had gotten more moments like that to balance the better ones it's Sally the voice of reason for Sonic like Sonic Conversation (and you know, more cases they just weren't at each other's backs or another character got some personality demonstration) the dynamic would have felt more fleshed out and Sally a more fallible character.

[Pengi]

14 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

But that sort of ties into my previous point. Why adapt a near completely retooled Princess Sally? Isn't there a point the appeal to the character is no longer there and they may as well just make a new separate character?

They could easily retain all the core elements of the character, just adapted into the video games' world and design philosophy.

Whether fans of the character would be pleased with this is harder to judge. Fans of the later Archie comics would already be used to her existing in a game-like world and having gone through design changes. Older, casual fans might remember her from the cartoons and comics of their childhoods, and check out whatever new game she's appearing in out of curiosity. The super hardcore fans of the cartoon who hated the Archie reboot would probably hate any other revamp too - but that's a niche within a niche.

Ultimately, I think anyone who wants to see the character return to the series as it exists today would be happy. Anyone who wants the series to be an exact replica of the 1993-1995 cartoon will never be satisfied.

But an infinite runner mobile game isn't the best venue to retool and reintroduce a once major character.

[antyep]

2 hours ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

I also wanted to add that on the subject of roboticisation, the games already added an aspect that would allow Bunnie and such to easily slot into place. Lost World showcased Tails undergoing a very similar process to Bunnie where he had several cybernetic parts attached to him.

True, he was able to shred them later, but we already know Tails had screwed with the machine beforehand, so it’s possible he also changed how the process works. So I don’t think it’s really that far out there to imply after Lost World, Eggman might’ve been testing it on other animals.

I dunno, I think that version is just being trapped in the robot parts, just like in the old games. Fleetway did something like this many times. Hell, one character, named Shortfuse, used to be stuck in a robot body made of nearly indestructible alloy (I believe called Megatal). Bunnie could be one of the unfortunate test subjects Eggman used for such a new alloy.

[Kazhnuz]

If I'm not really a supporter of the movement (and stuff like spamming the Sonic Official chats) in itself, I'm definitively all for having Sally and/or the FF in a modern-like universe, as she fill a niche that no other character really fill.

 

I feel that it's a character that would benefit from SEGA's mandate, as they would make her more quirky, with more amplified traits that would make her more fun to see. I really liked her in the second continuity, when she wasn't held down by her relationship with Sonic, that permitted her to be already a bit more quirky and fun (and a bit relatable with her anxiety, especially when she was surprotective of Cream, that was a nice touch to show the responsabilities she had). TBH, even what some people don't like on her (bossy, etc) could be pretty fun and interesting, especially as they could play more on the bickering now, as Sonic wouldn't be part of the Freedom Fighter anymore.

That alone change entirely their dynamics, as she wouldn't have any authority on Sonic, that could be really funny as he could annoy her a bit more. (of course, that would also need being able to make both of them right at some moment, and not just Sally or Sonic). She would be less "near" Sonic, maybe a bit more of an authority figure that Sonic have to work with sometimes, with their personnality clashing but them having ultimately the same goal (it would be perfect to emphasis the love for freedom of Sonic, with Sally being a more meticulous)

If I don't think that she would be fit yet for the games (as they aren't ready to have that much character, we would need more specialized games for that imo), I feel that having her in "character-filled" sidegames (like the Olympics or the endless runners games) would be pretty neat to represent the character, and to reinvent her there is the comics (or a TV serie if they feel adventurous, as I really would love a Modern-styled serie reboot/inspired of SatAM). In the comics, I would be happy because it would help Amy to go back to a more adventurous role (even if I don't dislike the IDW Amy at all, I feel that having her a bit more adventurous would/will be a really nice breath of fresh air).

But eh, even having her referenced (redesigned or not, I don't really care either way) simply in Dash/Speed Battle would make me really happy.

 

Not that I'm saying that people not wanting her are wrong : it's a loaded character, that got some really strong bad or controversal moments, and the SatAM/SonicX arguments in the fandom wasn't a fun moment for many people (they were really draining emotionally, especially when you are a teenager that just wanted to talk about the new serie you discovered).

And even without that last more "emotionnal" point, I really can understand why some would think that it wouldn't be done well. There is a risk that she just become an empty "I'm bossy and annoying" foil to Sonic, or that she is just used to show how the other character are ready to help everybody.

It's just that personally, there is more chance of something great than something bad.

[Sean]

I prefer the roboticization angle for Bunnie but in case anyone is vehemently against the concept entering the games in any fashion, then the rebooted Archie comics changed it so that her robotic limbs are replacements after she suffered grave injury.

[JezMM]

I only skimmed the topic so apologies if this has come up... but the simplest reason I don't see this happening is because the Archie comics are over.  All of the "out there" characters that have been added to Dash/Forces Mobile have been involved in some sort of cross-promotion.  The IDW comics and the movie being an active product means adding these non-canon characters makes total sense.  And the Angry Birds/Hello Kitty characters added to Dash make sense since those are still very active franchises.

There's nothing to cross-promote by adding Sally, and since Sticks didn't stick around for the 2020 Olympics games, I'd say even she is safe to write-off as ever appearing in the mobile games again too now.  She did in Runners of course, back when Sonic Boom was a current product to cross-promote with... but Sonic Boom is over now, so there's nothing to cross-promote by adding Sticks even though Runners and Mario & Sonic Rio might make you think she was a shoe-in.

I don't think Tangle and Whisper are a foot in the door for Archie characters just because they're comic characters.  The "comic" part doesn't matter.  Once a character shows up from a non-current product, an old Sonic spin-off or otherwise, THAT would be the real foot-in-the-door for an Archie character getting in.  Heck, in that regard, I'd actually say Sticks getting added would be more of a sign that Sally could appear than Tangle and Whisper could (but really we'd want a deader Sonic spin-off ideally, like, I dunno, Cosmo from Sonic X showing up).

It's not "look comic characters can appear!" we're looking for, it's "look, characters from a non-current product can appear!".  The only positive thing I could say is that if they ever DID decide that was a thing they were gonna do... Sally sure as heck would make the most sense to be the first.  Well, after Sticks, lol.

[Styx_Linoone]

13 minutes ago, JezMM said:

I don't think Tangle and Whisper are a foot in the door for Archie characters just because they're comic characters.  The "comic" part doesn't matter.  Once a character shows up from a non-current product, an old Sonic spin-off or otherwise, THAT would be the real foot-in-the-door for an Archie character getting in.  Heck, in that regard, I'd actually say Sticks getting added would be more of a sign that Sally could appear than Tangle and Whisper could (but really we'd want a deader Sonic spin-off ideally, like, I dunno, Cosmo from Sonic X showing up)

The primary reason the Freedom Fighters truly exist is because of the dynamic of a good organisation within the Sonic continuity. Having Sally appear can be a foothold for other mobians like Bunnie, Antoine and Rotor join in. But yeah, I'm not that really fussed about Sally being pushed for a game appearance in over 20 years, I'm just concerned about Sticks, ya know.

[KoDaiko]

1 hour ago, Pengi said:

They could easily retain all the core elements of the character, just adapted into the video games' world and design philosophy.

Whether fans of the character would be pleased with this is harder to judge. Fans of the later Archie comics would already be used to her existing in a game-like world and having gone through design changes. Older, casual fans might remember her from the cartoons and comics of their childhoods, and check out whatever new game she's appearing in out of curiosity. The super hardcore fans of the cartoon who hated the Archie reboot would probably hate any other revamp too - but that's a niche within a niche.

Ultimately, I think anyone who wants to see the character return to the series as it exists today would be happy. Anyone who wants the series to be an exact replica of the 1993-1995 cartoon will never be satisfied.

But an infinite runner mobile game isn't the best venue to retool and reintroduce a once major character.

I used to think "what IS the 'core element' of the character?" because I think everyone has a slightly different answer to what makes the Freedom Fighters what they are. But now that I think of it, it doesn't really matter. Like you say, no matter what kind of treatment Sega gives to them there will be a bunch of happy people and a bunch of angry people. 

 

18 minutes ago, Kazhnuz said:

If I'm not really a supporter of the movement (and stuff like spamming the Sonic Official chats), I'm definitively all for having Sally and/or the FF in a modern-like universe, as she fill a niche that no other character really fill.

[...]

If I don't think that she would be fit yet for the games (as they aren't ready to have that much character, we would need more specialized games for that imo), I feel that having her in "character-filled" sidegames (like the Olympics or the endless runners games) would be pretty neat to represent the character, and to reinvent her there is the comics (or a TV serie if they feel adventurous, as I really would love a Modern-styled serie reboot/inspired of SatAM). In the comics, I would be happy because it would help Amy to go back to a more adventurous role (even if I don't dislike the IDW Amy at all, I feel that having her a bit more adventurous would/will be a really nice breath of fresh air).

[...]

And even without that last more "emotionnal" point, I really can understand why some would think that it wouldn't be done well. There is a risk that she just become an empty "I'm bossy and annoying" foil to Sonic, or that she is just used to show how the other character are ready to help everybody.

It's just that personally, there is more chance of something great than something bad.

One thing that always bother/worry me is that Sally & co. flourished because of the medium they are in. They had the freedom to explore and expand on concepts that would not be possible in the games. Trying to put them in the game can work, sure, but will definitely lose some of what made them appealing. As you say, I think they would need a more specialized game that can introduce & use them properly.

....wait, if it's only Sally then maybe not. But if they want to bring in the whole team (5 total), then yeah. 

[Mega]

Can I just say I don't get why the Freedom Fighters being adapted into other media like the games or IDW is such a hot topic?

I guess it's because to me I look at, say, Harley Quinn, who came from Bataman TAS and was later adapted into the comics and films or TMNT, where the 80's cartoon was effectively to the original comics what SatAM is to the Sonic games (albeit in opposite directions). Still, it was radically different in tone and style, yet many elements of the 80's show carried over into other iterations, like IDW and 2k12.

In other franchises, characters from spinoff continuities often get re-imagined in subsequent iterations, and it's something to enjoy as a nod to a franchise's history in many forms.

Yet with SatAM characters, so many people jump to the absolute worst conclusions or complain that because SatAM/Archie/etc aren't the "true" vision of the series, people should just get over it and that their adaptation into other Sonic media would be doomed from the start.

The thing is, a LOT of Sonic characters are divisive to certain parts of the fandom. Amy, Shadow, Silver, Cream- series staples with devoted fans who also have huge detractors.

That's not to say I expect this campaign to work, but for crying out loud- it is possible to reimagine old characters in a way that fits newer continuities. It just takes a little creativity.

Mind you, I got into Sonic through SatAM, not the games. I have a very different background than most Sonic fans in that regard, and while I do like other continuities, too, this kinda discourse just sorta boggles the mind. You gotta understand that the Freedom Fighters, unlike, say, Dr. Zachary, are very long lasting characters. They lasted, what, almost two decades, if not slightly more than that due to Archie's lengthy run?

That's a significant part of Sonic history, even if it's not everyone's favorite version of the franchise.

[Sean]

36 minutes ago, Mega said:

That's a significant part of Sonic history, even if it's not everyone's favorite version of the franchise.

People are going to find countless ways to argue this so I've about given up, honestly. The only way for me to not be constantly annoyed by how Sonic fans stigmatize the SatAM cast is if I simply don't talk about the FFs at all. If someone cared this deeply about wanting to see rep for Tenko, evil Super Sonic, Cosmo, or Sticks, I'm not gonna lay it on them why it wouldn't work out.

[Cuz]

Just now, Sean said:

 If someone cared this deeply about wanting to see rep for Tenko, 

You rang?

  (rally for canary rawr!)

[Mega]

Tbh, I'd be all for STC characters being revisited, too, but IIRC SEGA actually doesn't own the rights to those characters at all? That's what I recall hearing, anyway. I may be wrong.

I know they own the Freedom Fighters because SatAM and all its concepts belong to SEGA of America. That's part of why SEGA was able to use Sally in so many unrelated things, like SEGA world and Spinball.

[antyep]

11 minutes ago, Mega said:

Tbh, I'd be all for STC characters being revisited, too, but IIRC SEGA actually doesn't own the rights to those characters at all? That's what I recall hearing, anyway. I may be wrong.
 

No they don’t own characters exclusive to Fleetway. I remember Archie trying to sneak a Tekno cameo in in older comics. I believe Fleetway weren’t too happy about that.

[GentlemanX]

So, I'll go ahead and add my two cents, since one of my staff at ASO spear headed this movement following a comment from me on the ASO twitter where I talked about how excited I was to see Tangle & Whisper come to the mobile games and would love to see Sally too.

First, the main focus of this campaign - adding Sally to the mobile games. This is something I honestly don't understand why there'd be any hesitancy toward unless you're coming from Sega's perspective. As has been noted, these are noncanon mobile games which let you play as an Android mascot version of Sonic and have Sonic race Sonic respectively - there's nothing to take into account about the larger ramifications of adding any characters to this whether they be from Archie, IDW, Fleetway, etc. While I'd love for everyone to show up, obviously I'd focus on Sally because I like Sally and she's by far the most popular of the non-IDW alternate media series (which she is - there's really no debating that - she was a tent-pole character, arguably both positively and negatively more than Sonic himself, in an ongoing comic for over 20 years and Ian continued to say that Sally was treated differently by Archie and Sega because of her popularity throughout his tenure on the book).

One obvious advantage she has, and why I'm going to promote rally4sally rather than rally4scourge or something is that she's literally owned by Sega, so there's nothing externally standing in the way of her appearing (for Fleetway fans - maybe ask Sega for Johnny Lightfoot or Porker Lewis for this same reason). Internally at Sega, there are two major issues I understand which would prevent her inclusion. 1. She was not designed or created by Sega staff. This is probably the biggest reason, but I'd love to see Hesse or Gates or someone give her a new design approved by Uekawa and Sonic Team. That requires them to care about her though, which fan promotion is probably the only thing we can do to that effect. 2. Unlike Tangle and Whisper, Sally's inclusion would not promote another product. If Sally were in IDW then she could be used to promote IDW, but that would cycle back around to problem number one. The only thing we as fans can do is try and change this mindset - try to make the case to Sega that fans want the mobile games to use everyone Sega has at their disposal.

Which is the point of the campaign - to try and convince Sega that there are fans out there that want them to produce this product by taking a popular character and including them in a low risk avenue for them. It's the same reason fans keep asking for Sally in the IDW comics which IDW staff acknowledged in some interview recently. If you don't care about Sally or the Freedom Fighters and don't want to actively contribute to this campaign, sure that's fine. But having an issue with other fans trying to do it at all is so strange to me.

Next, Sally and/or the Freedom Fighters in the main games. This has been something I've talked about before, but I'll go ahead and go over my thoughts on it again. While there would no doubt be some fans who will always be unsatisfied that the games don't reflect SatAM and vice versa, I personally don't think that's a strong enough reason to not please some fans by adding new versions of the characters that better match the worlds of the games or IDW comics. How I would personally introduce the characters would be to keep their personalities in tact while divorcing the SatAM setting from them. Have Sally no longer being a princess or tactical leader, but keep her more serious minded perspective and her humanitarian goals. She'd be an activist that volunteers time toward helping people and fighting against injustices; getting along with Sonic and playfully chastising him for his hyper "always on the move" attitude. If she were allowed to be playable (you know, if anyone besides Sonic is allowed to be playable outside of Mania and multiplayer racing/party/mobile games), that could be explored with elements to her design either in the way of her ring blades from post-reboot or something involving Nicole like in that Sally in Sonic 1 mod.

The other Freedom Fighters would be similar - Rotor would be a modest but excited mechanic who likes to invent new devices to utilize with a moveset based either on those devices or his own body (I lean toward him sliding around on his belly with a paw attack rather than making him a brawler ala post-reboot but that could work too), Antoine would be a scared but brave swordsman whose moveset would focus on his sword (fighting with a sword could be straight forward, but having it allow him to bounce similar to Scrooge's cane in Capcom's DuckTales could be fun), and Bunnie would be a rough-and-tumble, outgoing cowgirl who uses artificial limbs that can stretch and fly (maybe even including her arm cannon). Instead of roboticization, they could be prosthetic. Nicole's a bit more complicated since her lynx form doesn't exist in SatAM and therefore may not be available to Sega (she was designed by Archie artist Tania Del Rio). Having her be an AI learning from Sonic to be hip like in SatAM would still be fun to me. The characters would be individual (minus Nicole being with Sally) with the Freedom Fighters group being something referenced when they're all together (including Sonic, Tails, and maybe Amy) complete with "Long time no see... looks like the Freedom Fighters are back together!". Other than that, they'd all have their own relationships like Bunnie and Antoine flirting or Rotor and Tails getting all technical with each other so other nearby characters get lost in the conversation.

Again, this wouldn't please everyone, nothing will considering some SatAM fans would want the games to change to accommodate SatAM's premise and some games fans would be unhappy if these characters appear at all, but that's not a good enough reason to deprive fans of these characters from any use of them. I also will note that these descriptions are all based on the idea they could appear in the games, if they were only going to appear in the IDW comics you could probably get away with some further deviation. For example, I think Sally still being a princess could probably still be implemented well in IDW, but in the games it'd be best for her not to be a princess.

[thumbs13]

On 8/22/2020 at 9:53 AM, Waluigi Smash said:

Sally is coming to Sonic Dash and Sonic Forces Speed Battle really soon

https://twitter.com/LineGutter/status/1277776560603508736

....I think that's the wrong link.

But yeah, I'd be fine if they added Sally to the mobile games. If they can add Sonic in a baseball outfit, they can probably add comic characters.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Honestly I think all the energy so far should just go into getting fleetway comics reprinted.

Been over 20 years and only way to get them is find the 2nd hand issues.

[Shadow Chaos Control]

This is good news. Sally Acorn is among my favorite SATAM and Archie Comic characters. 

[E-122-Psi]

As said I'm less against her appearing in Dash because Dash is ultimately a harmless spin off with little story/character focus to contradict.

The worst they could likely do there is give her a crappy redesign that ends up the 'official' one everyone has to follow now, but of course no one's using Sally right now anyway, and when they did she'd already been overhauled.