Rally 4 Sally

[Badnik Mechanic]

51 minutes ago, Titan Mecha Sonic said:

This is good news. Sally Acorn is among my favorite SATAM and Archie Comic characters. 

Did you even read the OP?

They literally made up the claim.

[Shadow Chaos Control]

Just now, Badnik Mechanic said:

Did you even read the OP?

They literally made up the claim.

Huh, there is extensive discussion on Sally’s appearance for the game. 

 

[Badnik Mechanic]

53 minutes ago, Titan Mecha Sonic said:

Huh, there is extensive discussion on Sally’s appearance for the game. 

 

Sally isn't confirmed for the game.

The OP made it up. The tweet doesn't even confirm what the OP claims.

[iambitter21]

anyways #rally4sally everybody.

[Shadow Chaos Control]

Perhaps a Sally fan made game could be made. I’d base it on the Sally Comics: 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

2 hours ago, Titan Mecha Sonic said:

Perhaps a Sally fan made game could be made. I’d base it on the Sally Comics: 

I think we can do better for a Sally fan game than that mini-series.

If that were to ever actually be a thing, mind you...

[GentlemanX]

6 hours ago, Badnik Mechanic said:

Honestly I think all the energy so far should just go into getting fleetway comics reprinted.

Been over 20 years and only way to get them is find the 2nd hand issues.

I would LOVE to be able to legally purchase Fleetway, but... doesn't that have the exact same problems with reprinting pre-reboot Archie? Each writer and/or artist owns what they contributed to it? That's a ton of different individuals to track down, reach out to, get permission to reprint the work, potentially work out royalty payments for, and finally find publishers globally that would be interested in it (IDW would definitely bite at it, and I imagine you could find a British publisher, but would they even want to translate such an old comic for release in other countries? At least later parts of Archie were published in various European languages). All for a comic that ceased publication 18 years ago, and ceased publishing original stories two years before that? Again, I would love this potential product, but it's even more niche and seems a lot more cumbersome of a venture than saying "Hey Sega, you own Sally, Sally is popular and last appeared three years ago, you should use Sally in more stuff."

[Badnik Mechanic]

25 minutes ago, GentlemanX said:

I would LOVE to be able to legally purchase Fleetway, but... doesn't that have the exact same problems with reprinting pre-reboot Archie? Each writer and/or artist owns what they contributed to it? 

From my understanding.

Sega owns all the rights to fleetway. 

 

Fleetway was bought by Egmont and the rights were with them. Then Rebellion bought Egmont Fleetways entire comic rights. 2000ad and the like.

From what I know based on people I've spoken with at Rebellion. Sonic the comic was not included in the deal. 

The rights all went to Sega.

If any royalties are to be paid, it would certainly be a standard license deal similar to how rebellion is able to republish all 2000ad material. 

Remember, 2000ad was made by the same people who made STC and in something like 99% of all STC content The same staff who worked on 2000ad also worked on STC. 

There will almost certainly be no issues. Certainly not a Pendering like Archie had to deal with.

 

Literally the only reason I think it hasn't happened yet is because fleetway fans and broader sonic fans tend to be a bit quiet on the fleetway front.

[Shadow Chaos Control]

11 hours ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

I think we can do better for a Sally fan game than that mini-series.

If that were to ever actually be a thing, mind you...

I doubt Sally will ever get her own spin off game (now that I learn Rally Sally was a hoax). She is more likely to be an unlockable character or skin in an upcoming anthology game. 

[E-122-Psi]

12 hours ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

I think we can do better for a Sally fan game than that mini-series.

If that were to ever actually be a thing, mind you...

The Sally mini series if anything shown Sally's problems being a main character, a straight man isn't that interesting as the lead, and without Sonic to banter with she was pretty dull, needing her supporting cast to act up instead (and who gives a crap about Hamlin? :P). I think this is why Sally ended up so divisive, since they kept milking her a main character while never bulking up her personality outside that of a supporting one. Of course a straight man will be seen as 'boring' or a 'Mary Sue' in the eyes of some, because they aren't really designed to get so much focus that their lack of foibles and negative qualities becomes an issue.

I stand by the idea that if they wanted to push her as a main character then they should not have withdrawn Sally's earlier busybody personality (especially since they tend to reflexively write her as arrogant anyway, just in an accidental 'designated hero' sort of way).

[antyep]

The problem with that mini series was that Penders wrote it, for Sally had less screen time than Geoffery, and that Sally was a robot the whole time. Penders spent more time on his character than the character the mini series was meant for.

[E-122-Psi]

39 minutes ago, antyep said:

The problem with that mini series was that Penders wrote it, for Sally had less screen time than Geoffery, and that Sally was a robot the whole time. Penders spent more time on his character than the character the mini series was meant for.

Which I think only furthers the idea that he didn't really find her interesting compared to his definitely-not-a-pedo-skunk.

Even more so keeping in mind Penders wanted to KILL OFF Sally in Endgame because he thought she'd served her purpose (and yet brought in what was basically just a male version of Sally to take over the baggage of most of her individual role afterwards).

I feel like a lot of the time Penders wasn't really interested in the marketed characters and just used them as a wraparound of sorts for stories with his own OCs. Even in the Knuckles comics, which he was allowed more leeway over, Knuckles became less and less developed compared to his own echidnas.

[Shadow Chaos Control]

33 minutes ago, antyep said:

The problem with that mini series was that Penders wrote it, for Sally had less screen time than Geoffery, and that Sally was a robot the whole time. Penders spent more time on his character than the character the mini series was meant for.

I find this most enlightening. Thank you for sharing. 

[antyep]

10 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

Which I think only furthers the idea that he didn't really find her interesting compared to his definitely-not-a-pedo-skunk.

Even more so keeping in mind Penders wanted to KILL OFF Sally in Endgame because he thought she'd served her purpose (and yet brought in what was basically just a male version of Sally to take over the baggage of most of her individual role afterwards).

He didn't find any of the Sonic character interesting, mostly because they're teenagers, and mostly because he didn't have much control over them as he did with Knuckles. And not only he tried to kill off Sally because he thought she served her purpose, but it's because of how her mini-series didn't do so well, which, again, was mostly staring his definitely-not-a-pedo-skunk than Sally (And I guess cuz it was marketed toward boys who were afraid to buy a "girly" comic. It was the nineties).

Penders isn't the best example when talking about Sally, to be honest.

[E-122-Psi]

18 hours ago, antyep said:

He didn't find any of the Sonic character interesting, mostly because they're teenagers, and mostly because he didn't have much control over them as he did with Knuckles. And not only he tried to kill off Sally because he thought she served her purpose, but it's because of how her mini-series didn't do so well, which, again, was mostly staring his definitely-not-a-pedo-skunk than Sally (And I guess cuz it was marketed toward boys who were afraid to buy a "girly" comic. It was the nineties).

Penders isn't the best example when talking about Sally, to be honest.

Truthfully few of the comic writers seemed to be that interested in her. Bollers also split her and Sonic up and demoted her to extra. Early Gallagher Sally was just kind of a brat who complained while Sonic did most of the work.

Only Ben Hurst and Ian Flynn come off as particularly fond of her, and even then largely for her straight man role. I'm definitely under the belief Ian just wanted to get Sally back into her old status quo again, and only submitted to steps like making her a more fallible character and offering some sort of resolution to "the slap" because it was made obvious that fans were NOT going to let those things go about her (Ian's team trying to make Sally flawed was awkward to me, like they just didn't believe it was how her character worked and didn't know how to go about it). Again writers not really being that interested in fleshing her out past supporting character credentials, even when they had ascended her into a role she had to be more developed.

Then again Penders was contradictory in the same way. He did a lot of 'girl power' shtick but most of his action girls were supporting characters with little agency at all. So long as they had all the superficial quirks of a 90s female (eg. tough tomboy attitude, undermined and beat up the male characters and acted more competent than them at face value) they did their role.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Oh, Sega own’s the Fleetway Sonic Characters?

All this time I thought they were in a similar boat to Pre-Reboot Archies cast of Unfortunate Untouchables. That’s good news at least as far as bringing them back...and simultaneously showing how annoying Sega can be for leaving characters in a vault for decades instead of reusing them.

[E-122-Psi]

34 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

Oh, Sega own’s the Fleetway Sonic Characters?

All this time I thought they were in a similar boat to Pre-Reboot Archies cast of Unfortunate Untouchables. That’s good news at least as far as bringing them back...and simultaneously showing how annoying Sega can be for leaving characters in a vault for decades instead of reusing them.

From what I heard it was Archie, not SEGA, that feared repercussions from Penders and Fleetway, suggesting the side media cast are technically free-game, it just depends if anyone on SEGA can be bothered with them and potentially dealing with these guys trying to make an argument against it.

Since a lot of the successful disputes were towards Archie, it would make sense, they're not the ones calling the shots with the franchise and arguably didn't have as much money and power they were willing to throw at people opposing them.

I mean remember the old rumours that Naoto Ohshima took the rights to Mighty when he left Sonic Team?

[Zaysho]

I think it was assumed the creators of Fleetway kept the rights to their original characters before the case with Archie/Penders was decided?

 

There's a transcript that actually answers a question I had regarding Kitching offering Flynn the use of the Metallix, which he couldn't do and even suggested that Archie did receive flak at some point for Fleetway cameos.

Quote

That and the last time there was any kind of Fleetway nod in the Archie book it had some really nasty blowback. So might want to dodge that minefield, but I’m always tempted because Nigel Kitching said I could use Metallix [audio cuts out], and I want to but I know its more complicated than that but I want to so bad.

I guess we can't really know all the reasons or complications that come with this, but it sounds like Fleetway isn't that clear cut. I assume some of the earlier cameos just slipped under the radar even after Sega went after Archie for using OVA characters (not sure what this was about since I've heard in more recent years Sega owns the OVA, but I assume Studio Pierrot had some rights attached to it at the time).

Things'll probably change one day, though. Who knows.

[GentlemanX]

15 hours ago, Zaysho said:

I guess we can't really know all the reasons or complications that come with this, but it sounds like Fleetway isn't that clear cut. I assume some of the earlier cameos just slipped under the radar even after Sega went after Archie for using OVA characters (not sure what this was about since I've heard in more recent years Sega owns the OVA, but I assume Studio Pierrot had some rights attached to it at the time).

At the time, Ian and company said everything in the OVA was off limits to them either because Sega said so or because the OVA was owned by Studio Pierrot. This even extended as far as Knuckles' iconic hat, which is why folks like Ian and Jon were so crazy excited when Treasure Hunter Knuckles got announced for Sonic Dash. If there were any rights issues they seem to have been resolved and Sega seems okay with at least some of their branches now using content from it, the live stream even talked about it at length last episode asking if fans had seen it and noting fans seemed to want a rerelease. This could be for a variety of reasons. If I were to speculate, I'd say it might be due to the popularity of Hesse's animations for Mania, both the initial trailers and opening and then later Mania Adventures. Those are all clearly heavily inspired by the OVA and the Sonic CD opening and I think they decided that meant the OVA was worth dusting off the shelf.

[Cuz]

Interesting, I know folks at Discotek have been itching to work on a re-release, but nobody's known who has the rights to it for quite a while. 

[King Scoopa Koopa]

On 8/24/2020 at 12:21 AM, Titan Mecha Sonic said:

Perhaps a Sally fan made game could be made. I’d base it on the Sally Comics: 

So, a game set in Sonic's world with little sign of Sally in it? Isn't that most of the franchise already?

[Shadow Chaos Control]

2 minutes ago, KingScoopaKoopa said:

So, a game set in Sonic's world with little sign of Sally in it? Isn't that most of the franchise already?

I’d play up the Sally in the later comics and use SatAM Sally. Have her be the Jane Bond if you will. 

[E-122-Psi]

22 minutes ago, KingScoopaKoopa said:

So, a game set in Sonic's world with little sign of Sally in it? Isn't that most of the franchise already?

Well yeah but that's the wrong Sally Acorn. The one that had a sex change, shrunk several feet, forsook their sapience and now goes under the name of Ricky.

19 minutes ago, Titan Mecha Sonic said:

I’d play up the Sally in the later comics and use SatAM Sally. Have her be the Jane Bond if you will. 

I'm still not sold on later comics Sally, largely because I wasn't big on the redesign and I thought the direct combat laser blades kinda clashed with her cautious strategist personality. I always felt like they should have given Sally more meticulous gadgetry and powerss if they wanted to make her abilities more distinct (NICOLE already sort of fit that, but then NICOLE became a character in her own right).

I think also giving her a more upfront and reckless approach also only exacerbated the whole 'chastises Sonic's recklessness but is NEVER called out on her hypocrisy' issue, since it was actually starting to become a full-time thing. Seriously the writers NEVER noticed this bullshit? NOT ONCE? Even after they Flanderized it?

[Shadow Chaos Control]

4 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

Well yeah but that's the wrong Sally Acorn. The one that had a sex change, shrunk several feet, forsook their sapience and now goes under the name of Ricky.

I'm still not sold on later comics Sally, largely because I wasn't big on the redesign and I thought the direct combat laser blades kinda clashed with her cautious strategist personality. I always felt like they should have given Sally more meticulous gadgetry and abilities if they wanted to make her abilities more distinct (NICOLE already sort of fit that, but then NICOLE became a character in her own right).

I love Nicole and totally agree, gadgetry and gumption. What I meant by later comics Sally is where she is even more in command, ruling as her Highness.   

[E-122-Psi]

2 minutes ago, Titan Mecha Sonic said:

I love Nicole and totally agree, gadgetry and gumption. What I meant by later comics Sally is where she is even more in command, ruling as her Highness.   

Ah, yeah, I suppose that makes sense.