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Rally 4 Sally


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7 minutes ago, Your Vest Friend said:

They were, but Chaotix seems to be literally the only exception to the rule because Heroes changed the rules up one time for some reason (I assume if any of the other classic characters had been chosen as well or instead, they'd be the same). Mighty and Ray are actually a great counter-example though; although they'd only appeared in three games at most (due to the cameos they made in the racing game), they were actually characters longer thanks to the comics, and that's what people associated them with by 2017. That was still pretty much put in the bin when SEGA decided to allow them to come back for Sonic Mania, aside from Hesse being able to incorporate Ray's shoe design into his new classic design.

Of course, there are semantics with that because internally Mighty and Ray's history in SEGA is very different to the Freedom Fighters, but Sally at the very least must have been known to them in the classic era due to the shenanigans of Sonic X-Treme, them apparently knowing about SatAM and all that, although whether they consider that valuable enough to maintain the legacy of is another question entirely. Eh, it's a mess.

I think the issue with the chaotix example is that it feels like at least to me is that they were convenient. The three characters chosen fit what they needed at the time. They felt like they needed a fourth team. I don't think they would feel that way now. It was a point in time where they quite literally felt they needed more characters and more to that world and they repurposed characters for that. This is also a time long before the classic modern divide had been made so...uh...toxic by the internet. Today times are different and they have quite a few characters to work with. Heck they made some new ones, so the chaotix just seems like something they needed at the moment a new set of characters to flesh the world out and they very much do that. A lot of the characters introduced during the " adventure era" fall into that category . I would argue that at the moment maybe they don't feel like they need new roles,  but they do. But they have their own new comic characters for that. So ....ehh....

 

 

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I suggested bringing SatAm into the games by putting it in between 3D Blast and Adventure a couple pages back. Off the top of my head I cannot think of any major contradictions. I have the DVD set but have not seen it in awhile. If someone can point out any I’d appreciate it.

Sonics design would remain consistent too. 3D Blast and the cartoon use his Classic look so it would not clash with the SA updates. It also makes whatever Modern design Sally would get more fitting because it’d just be like a natural update. The cartoon still counts and the FF roles can be whatever Sega wants going forward.

The alternative is obviously a reboot that adapts their general backstory and theme. Which is not bad. I would still be extremely happy to have Sally join the games with an altered story.

I do not understand how some think it’s so difficult. Like others have mentioned just portray the FF as a team who needs help stopping Robotnik who invaded their home. Barrow stuff like the Knothole setting and Swatbots. It’s very easy. Robotnik has already done this to Little Planet, Flicky Island, Wisps and Lost Hex.

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16 minutes ago, Wildcat said:

I suggested bringing SatAm into the games by putting it in between 3D Blast and Adventure a couple pages back. Off the top of my head I cannot think of any major contradictions. I have the DVD set but have not seen it in awhile. If someone can point out any I’d appreciate it.

The only thing I can think of would be how Tails met Sonic. In canon Tails met Sonic in Sonic 2, and by going by what Sonic Adventure shows us, he was wandering around on his own, maybe after being bullied for his two tails, as Sonic X and his own backstory show us. A little retcon (could it even be called that?) could work. Tails had been bullied, and was wandering around on his own when he sees Sonic for the first time. This time however, after the two meet, and after the events of Sonic 2, Sonic could bring Tails back home with him.

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11 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

I think the issue with the chaotix example is that it feels like at least to me is that they were convenient. The three characters chosen fit what they needed at the time. They felt like they needed a fourth team. I don't think they would feel that way now. It was a point in time where they quite literally felt they needed more characters and more to that world and they repurposed characters for that. This is also a time long before the classic modern divide had been made so...uh...toxic by the internet. Today times are different and they have quite a few characters to work with. Heck they made some new ones, so the chaotix just seems like something they needed at the moment a new set of characters to flesh the world out and they very much do that. A lot of the characters introduced during the " adventure era" fall into that category . I would argue that at the moment maybe they don't feel like they need new roles,  but they do. But they have their own new comic characters for that. So ....ehh....

 

 

I am really glad they developed TEAM Dark, Rouge, Shadow, and Robotnik/Gamma. 

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21 hours ago, Kuzu said:

Like say, if you were going to introduce the Freedom Fighters in say, a new spin off; they'd have to be the main focus of it along with Sonic, which inevitably leaves the likes of Tails and Amy with much less to do. 

That was one of the biggest things before; to promote the new and fresh character of the week, the established characters had to be pushed aside a bit to make way for them. 

That's kind of how a story works though; if you introduce another character to the party, they have to be established in some way. It's up the writers to clearly define their roles to get the most out of the cast. It isn't pushing anyone to the side at all, and I don't think anyone sees Tangle or Whisper as some threat to the status of the game cast despite being introduced through them.

A friend of mine mentioned to me yesterday that a subset of fans apparently believed Chip was taking Tails's spot when Unleashed first came out and I don't understand that at all. It's like when someone says Shadow took away Knuckles's role as Sonic's rival and ignores that Sega kept putting Sonic and Knuckles on a team where they wouldn't be able to compete against each other.

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6 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

That's kind of how a story works though; if you introduce another character to the party, they have to be established in some way. It's up the writers to clearly define their roles to get the most out of the cast. It isn't pushing anyone to the side at all, and I don't think anyone sees Tangle or Whisper as some threat to the status of the game cast despite being introduced through them.

A friend of mine mentioned to me yesterday that a subset of fans apparently believed Chip was taking Tails's spot when Unleashed first came out and I don't understand that at all. It's like when someone says Shadow took away Knuckles's role as Sonic's rival and ignores that Sega kept putting Sonic and Knuckles on a team where they wouldn't be able to compete against each other.

I know it isn't rational and makes no sense, but this is the Sonic fanbase; sense isn't common. The main reason no other character ever gets to do anything anymore is because people would not shut up about the other characters and it bled over into mainstream media. 

That's the main lynchpin against the Freedom Fighters; for the portion of the fanbase that don't care about them, they are going to be the biggest detractors in "not wanting these characters to take over" 

 

Honestly, it is ridiculous because the nature of the series kind of means that Sonic will meet various characters all of the time and the most recurring ones aren't going to be around. But *shrug* I can't force people to be open-minded. 

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12 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

 

A friend of mine mentioned to me yesterday that a subset of fans apparently believed Chip was taking Tails's spot when Unleashed first came out and I don't understand that at all. It's like when someone says Shadow took away Knuckles's role as Sonic's rival and ignores that Sega kept putting Sonic and Knuckles on a team where they wouldn't be able to compete against each other.

There are still people that say this and it makes me wonder how they can claim to be invested in Sonic stories at all. Chip's memory loss meant he was experiencing the planet from a fresh perspective which gives him a fascination with everything that matches the player's. Tails has been travelling for years and doesn't have that to offer the story. 

It's the same thing when people claim the Werehog should have been Knuckles. Like..the intent was clearly to do something different with the gameplay. Knuckles can't stretch his arms and the Werehog can't glide around. 

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57 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

I know it isn't rational and makes no sense, but this is the Sonic fanbase; sense isn't common. The main reason no other character ever gets to do anything anymore is because people would not shut up about the other characters and it bled over into mainstream media. 

That's the main lynchpin against the Freedom Fighters; for the portion of the fanbase that don't care about them, they are going to be the biggest detractors in "not wanting these characters to take over" 

 

Honestly, it is ridiculous because the nature of the series kind of means that Sonic will meet various characters all of the time and the most recurring ones aren't going to be around. But *shrug* I can't force people to be open-minded. 

It is sad. Fans tore The Last Jedi apart, even though it was the deepest philosophically since Empire Strikes Back and thus created The Rise of Skywalker which is laden with plotholes and fan service.  

I fear this trend could ruin new stories for Sonic. Developers and Filmnakers are going to try to appease the mob of people who want it to be their headcanon, when in truth your beloved eras, stories, characters, and forms of Sonic exist because writers took risks that fans might not like what they create. Rouge could have been recieved as a Knuckles clone in female form, but instead she proved to be a unique character. The same goes for Shadow the Hedgehog, who is now a staple character. 

We will always have our most loved aspects of the Sonic Universe, but I urge fans to remember those beloved characters, arcs, and stories exist because creators and writers took risks we’d not like what they created.  

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I don't think it's that people blame them for making these concepts revolved around new characters, but more they don't spend more time on ones that could help develop the existing cast. At this point the characters we already have are undercooked and pretty much glorified extras, and making more premises and gimmicks designed to give them more to do is a recurrent wishlist.

Like Chip or Silver aren't primarily responsible for 'stealing roles' or anything, but the games were designed around them with the other characters being an  undercooked afterthought, and more characters just adds to the pile of things that need tune ups (Chip at least only had one self contained story, but Silver quite expectedly ended up demoted to extra like the other characters, another one added to the pile that doesn't get any focus). THAT is why people complain. Sure only a new character could fit a time travelling telekinetic gimmick, but they still chose that in the first place. When you have about six characters that are being awkwardly underused, it's not the best idea to go 'well let's make it SEVEN''. When you add something to the concoction you flesh it out and make it work, and THEN focus on new stuff.

It's not to say people don't want new characters EVER but more they want them to at least get the current ones up to par before adding more and just exacerbating the problem. It's not totally illogical that some fans want the creative team to demonstrate they can make at least one modern project that makes good use of core cast members such as Tails, Amy and Knuckles again before they focus on a project that adds MORE new characters. Unless they can somehow do BOTH (though the last time they tried to shove that many characters into a game we got Next Gen).

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At some point, a series needs to innovate and try something new otherwise it's just going to get stale. I understand that the Sonic series doesn't do that with the modern games. But like...where's the dividing line? 

Tails, Knuckles, Amy have literally been around for damn near the entire series` lifespan, and have gotten the lion's share of attention for a majority of the franchise and still do to this very day. At what point can the series just push them aside and let other characters have some focus? 

There's literally only but so much story potential you can get out of characters that have literally run their course before they become stale. This is why I've started to believe that fans that claim to care about the characters and story in fact do not. What they actually care about is the stuff they like and they want more of that and to hell with anything else. 

It's the same garbage that people say when they claim "They need to get Sonic's gameplay right first" in spite of the fact that the series has been using the same gameplay style since 2008 with only one exception. This is why this fanbase is full of shit. People will say they want one thing, but then cry about not getting the specific thing they want. 

And yes, I am going to blame fans because they never know what they want. They THINK they know, but they don't because their actions contract themselves constantly. This is why there's a large claim that we're "unpleasable" because everyone is screaming for what THEY want and don't give a shit what anyone else might want. 

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1 hour ago, Titan Mecha Sonic said:

It is sad. Fans tore The Last Jedi apart, even though it was the deepest philosophically since Empire Strikes Back and thus created The Rise of Skywalker which is laden with plotholes and fan service.  

I fear this trend could ruin new stories for Sonic. Developers and Filmnakers are going to try to appease the mob of people who want it to be their headcanon, when in truth your beloved eras, stories, characters, and forms of Sonic exist because writers took risks that fans might not like what they create. Rouge could have been recieved as a Knuckles clone in female form, but instead she proved to be a unique character. The same goes for Shadow the Hedgehog, who is now a staple character. 

We will always have our most loved aspects of the Sonic Universe, but I urge fans to remember those beloved characters, arcs, and stories exist because creators and writers took risks we’d not like what they created.  

Like literally, I don't give a shit how anyone feels about Sonic Adventure 2, the fact remains is that it's such a revered part of the series because it wasn't afraid of make a radical departure from what was considered the norm at the time. Shadow and Rouge are two of the series` most notable characters because the writers weren't afraid of fan opinion and wanted to tell a story surrounding them first and foremost. They were characters first and gimmicks second. 

There hasn't been a single character or element introduced in the last ten years that hasn't been fleshed out to that extent; the Wisps only have Colors and people not caring much about their subsequent appearances, and quite literally nobody has ever liked the Deadly Six even in their debut. Aside from that, literally everything has been the same since Unleashed because the fanbase bullied Sega into never wanting to experiment again. 

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In fairness the direction they were going beforehand was pretty much the same just with a different gimmick. Shadow and Next Gen were pretty much just extensions of SA1 and 2, but with very little of the nuance and actual quality control that made them good. MORE new playable characters, MORE dark 'epic' plotlines, MORE gameplay roulettes, along with MORE glitches, MORE lame writing, and MORE issues with the core gameplay. SEGA have been infamous for trying quick fixes and milking anything that seems popular over actually putting a rounded effort into it. Wisps and boost formula are merely a variation of what they did with the multiple playable characters, just fans were vocal enough that the multiple playable characters were being overused in an increasingly poor fashion that they took notice, and even there they chose to scapegoat the concept than their poor handling, and threw them out completely as a publicity stunt over putting the work into moderating and fixing them.

SEGA weren't bullied or browbeaten into playing it safe, they were already doing that, they just had a change in direction in finding some new 'hot topic' to over-rely on. It's hardly like they were on a roll with ambitious projects and then the fans 'ruined everything' by complaining they were different from what they wanted.

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That's not what happened though; nobody cared to actually critique the quality of those games, but the superficial and surface level shit that people still talk about to this very day. Yet, nobody ever talks about the Modern games at all and still speak as if it's still 2005/2006 and act like Shadow and Next Gen like you just did. You're bringing up all of those things as if they're still relevant when they haven't been seen in this series for well over a decade.

06 hasn't been relevant for years, and yet this series has done next to nothing to move on from it and whenever fans express an interest in returning to the stuff from that era, you always get a subset of people who try to dissuade and talk down about it and claim "Sega will mess it up".  I'm really tired of this trend from older fans who hated the games from 2000's trying their damndest to stifle any interest in wanting rexplore the things that were dropped from that era.

 

I don't really jive with the rabid of Sonic fans on reddit and Twitter who clamour for a return to the Adventure era, but I understand why they feel that way given how stagnant and boring the series has gotten since 2010. There's been NO attempt to innovate and rebrand into something else, and the two times  they tried (Lost World and Boom) were panned and they just defaulted back into rehashing what we had from 2008. 

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1 hour ago, Kuzu said:

Like literally, I don't give a shit how anyone feels about Sonic Adventure 2, the fact remains is that it's such a revered part of the series because it wasn't afraid of make a radical departure from what was considered the norm at the time. Shadow and Rouge are two of the series` most notable characters because the writers weren't afraid of fan opinion and wanted to tell a story surrounding them first and foremost. They were characters first and gimmicks second. 

There hasn't been a single character or element introduced in the last ten years that hasn't been fleshed out to that extent; the Wisps only have Colors and people not caring much about their subsequent appearances, and quite literally nobody has ever liked the Deadly Six even in their debut. Aside from that, literally everything has been the same since Unleashed because the fanbase bullied Sega into never wanting to experiment again. 

Sonic Adventure 2 for me was the Apex, wverythung from Sonic OR (Sega Genesis) to SA2 is the golden years for me. Shadow is one of my all time favorites, he literally inspired me in my teens to be a mild Goth, and wear only red and black. 

I agree with you, no new characters have been fleshed out like Shadow and Rogue. 

I think to an extent we are dealing with the Abrams effect, in the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy too many new characters are introduced to allow them to be fleshed out, and the older characters fight with pantheon of new creations to get screentume and the lime light.   

This I think happened to Sonic to some extent. A solution isn’t forthcoming, you can’t ban new characters, but somehow a balance must be achieved.  

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Look, if people actually give a shit on expanding the lore and worldbuilding of this series, then they need to come to grips with the idea that their favorite characters might be pushed out at a certain point to make way for new ones. There is only but so much story potential you can have with a specific set of characters before it becomes stale. 

If people are going to bar the Freedom Fighters out of a fear that they may overshadow the game cast, then you quite honestly need to get over it. The series is never going to be able to expand itself if we're desperately trying to cling to everything that came before.

Obviously the point when something gets stale is very subjective and varies from person to person; but we're approaching a point when certain characters are about as old as the series itself. I don't see anything wrong with moving certain characters aside to focus on new ones. 

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46 minutes ago, Titan Mecha Sonic said:

Sonic Adventure 2 for me was the Apex, wverythung from Sonic OR (Sega Genesis) to SA2 is the golden years for me. Shadow is one of my all time favorites, he literally inspired me in my teens to be a mild Goth, and wear only red and black. 

I agree with you, no new characters have been fleshed out like Shadow and Rogue.  

 

1 hour ago, Kuzu said:

06 hasn't been relevant for years, and yet this series has done next to nothing to move on from it and whenever fans express an interest in returning to the stuff from that era, you always get a subset of people who try to dissuade and talk down about it and claim "Sega will mess it up".  I'm really tired of this trend from older fans who hated the games from 2000's trying their damndest to stifle any interest in wanting rexplore the things that were dropped from that era.

I agree with these. Ever since Sonic and to an extent Sonic Unleashed, it seems that Sega doesn't really try to do a continuing, flesh-out story like they used to. I really miss all the character development and interaction they used to have. Nowadays it seems like they just place a character in any role they need to fill, which is a real shame to me, as it just makes things seem sloppy.

I really want Sega to go back to they used to do things. Story was just as important as gameplay back then. Sonic adventure 2, in my own opinion, was one of the best games for introducing new characters and developing them. To me at least.

Also, @Kuzu I agree. i miss the spin off title they did in the past, like Tails' Adventures. It was a nice little game all about Tails. Sega doing side stories in the Sonic universe would be a good idea to help flesh out characters and do some new stuff. Maybe have a 2d shinobi style game with Espio, or some metal-gear spy style game with Rouge and GUN. I think these would be cool anyway! XD

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Sega definetly were taking a bigger risk on Shadow and Silver than they ever did on something like the wisps or the deadly six. Sonic is beloved so taking screentime away from him and asking us to be invested in a new character or a new set of mechanics is always going to be a risk. A lot of the 2000 games specifically are told from Shadow's perspective. Like how it turned out or not, it's just a more risky direction to take the franchise in than...new powerups designed specifically to be non-intrusive or easily ignored or a new miniboss squad that aren't really taking any time away from the Sonic 2 cast and are designed to be punching bags. 

New Sonic games are so afraid of taking these kinds of risks that Tails can't be playable despite being on Sonic's ass for most of these adventures. Even the games that they're calling back to didn't mind giving us that. 
 

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The flipside to that is, while it didn't work out for Silver, Shadow definitely ended up becoming a breakout among the characters even in spite of all of the controversy surrounding him. In fact, you can argue there's so much controversy because the expectations for a character with as much clout as him are as high, if not higher than anyone besides Sonic himself. You can feel however you want about Shadow's place in the series, but the fact remains is that he's arguably the series most iconic character outside of the characters that came around the series` inception. So much so, that Sega were at least willing to make him playable and give him his own side story in the latest game and whenever he shows up, it's always treated as a big deal, for better or worse. 

I understand that most older fans want to stay conservative and not take too many risks...but that mindset has largely led to the series just being incredibly boring and stagnant. There's a reason so many younger fans have started to turn against the entire last decade, because with the exception of the beginning with Colors and Generations, the last decade was a whole lot of nothing in particular. 

 

Let the series try something new and different; maybe you'll like it and maybe you won't, but that's a risk you'll have to take. I'm very largely tired of this series being as lifeless as it has and I'm tired of being told that this is a good thing that I need to accept. 

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I'm also of the mind that stuff from the Adventure era could come back and hate that it's been so long since we got stuff like that AND would love to discuss possibilities of appeasing that crowd, but... it really doesn't have to do with trying to get Sally in Speed Battle - yeah?

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4 minutes ago, GentlemanX said:

I'm also of the mind that stuff from the Adventure era could come back and hate that it's been so long since we got stuff like that AND would love to discuss possibilities of appeasing that crowd, but... it really doesn't have to do with trying to get Sally in Speed Battle - yeah?

Oops. Sorry. Went off track there. XD Getting back on track, I really hope that Sally can get into Speed battle. Doing that would not only be awesome, as it would show that Sega listens and cares about what the fans want, but it could also end up opening the floodgates to further inclusion in the main games. That way we could introduce newer fans to older characters, but also maybe inr=troduce different gameplay styles. Maybe. I can hope right?

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On 8/29/2020 at 3:58 AM, Jack out of the comics! said:

Really I want to ask: would you fans of Sally be happy if she returned just as a cameo?

No, I want her to have the same roles as characters like Shadow, Blaze, Tangle, Whisper, and basically every other character who gets moments to shine.

We’ve told you this constantly in the IDW topic, before the first issue was even released in fact, that we don’t mind them being in supporting roles, that we don’t mind them alternating spots with other characters, and that they don’t need to be in the spotlight all the time.

Yet you consistently ignored us saying this to this very day. At this point, there is no excuse to pretend that you don’t know what we’d want with the return of these characters, and it’s high time people dropped this act.

People have been doing this shit since 2006 with Shadow and the extended cast, and it’s about time people grow up and stop plugging their ears or pretending they don’t know what people really want. It’s been obvious for years.

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I guess it's better than nothing, but I have never seen the Freedom Fighters in minor roles, even in the Archie reboot which was basically based off the games, you still had Sally and all the Freedom Fighters in a main central role, Ian spent the whole first arc by reintroducing them, they do take a lot of screentime.
 

That is a bold faced lie, and if you’ve actually read Archie, you know it.

Anyone who’s read the Archie Reboot can point to one perfect example of the Freedom Fighters taking a minor role: The Fighters Adaptation. It’s one of the most commonly talked about arcs, and considered one of the best before World’s Unite ruins the pace of the entire Unleashed adaptation that is the Shattered World Crisis.

There have even been moments during Penders’s Era where they’ve had less focus, or were even non-present—one example off the top of my head being when Sonic was in space for several issues after issue 125 and he was searching for a way back home. Not that it was great (tho admittedly, I actually liked those issues when I was younger) but it’s an example nonetheless that predates Ian’s writing lead.

And if you’ve actually read the comics, you should know that too. And if you didn’t, that’s entirely on you and shows your hand in that you’re really being more spiteful towards these characters than you’d like to downplay it as. These characters do not have to be the center 100% of the time—they can certainly have starring roles, but they can be rotated and placed in support roles or even not appear at all when the story calls for it.

This is not rocket science, this is not difficult to understand, and from this point forward you have no excuse not to know this anymore after we’ve told this to your face for the umpteenth time.

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I really don't know why fans can't let go and accept that these characters are finished, done. It was hard for me to accept that my adorable Sticks was done but she is, Boom is dead and so is Sticks. But I did, I let her go.

You know, I could ask that same exact question when it comes to something like Classic Sonic—he was irrelevant as far as the series’s direction for well over a decade since they gave him a slight makeover starting with SA1, and for well over a decade Classic fans could not let that go and accept that version of Sonic wasn’t coming back...

That is until Sonic Team started marketing things toward the Classic gameplay starting (and failing) with Sonic 4, and then officially brought him back In Generations after more than a decade. Then they further cemented that return with Mania, and have been advertising him ever since. And on top of that they officially brought back Mighty and Ray into the games after being in the scrap bin for well over 20 years, albeit with restrictions that they’re Classic characters only (and guess where the only place they were actually still active until 2017?)

I guess the better question is why the hell should fans let go and accept they’re finished when that hasn’t stopped others from getting their favorites to return? If Classic fans can get their favorites to return, if we can get the extended game cast to likely return, I don’t see why fans of Sally and the Freedom Fighters are somehow unable to do the same.
 

But the case is very clear here that you don’t want them to have that opportunity like everyone else, and you’ve shown that on plenty of occasions.

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Just saw a 'Rally for Sally' video on YouTube talking about the history of Sally. Apparently at one point Ben Hurst wanted to tie in the American and Japanese continuities of Sonic together, starting with a movie or something. I wish that could have happened, then we would have her and the freedom fighters already in the canon. It really is such a shame that it never happened... :(Here's hoping we can get them in now!

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4 hours ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

No, I want her to have the same roles as characters like Shadow, Blaze, Tangle, Whisper, and basically every other character who gets moments to shine.

We’ve told you this constantly in the IDW topic, before the first issue was even released in fact, that we don’t mind them being in supporting roles, that we don’t mind them alternating spots with other characters, and that they don’t need to be in the spotlight all the time.

Yet you consistently ignored us saying this to this very day. At this point, there is no excuse to pretend that you don’t know what we’d want with the return of these characters, and it’s high time people dropped this act.

People have been doing this shit since 2006 with Shadow and the extended cast, and it’s about time people grow up and stop plugging their ears or pretending they don’t know what people really want. It’s been obvious for years.

That is a bold faced lie, and if you’ve actually read Archie, you know it.

Anyone who’s read the Archie Reboot can point to one perfect example of the Freedom Fighters taking a minor role: The Fighters Adaptation. It’s one of the most commonly talked about arcs, and considered one of the best before World’s Unite ruins the pace of the entire Unleashed adaptation that is the Shattered World Crisis.

There have even been moments during Penders’s Era where they’ve had less focus, or were even non-present—one example off the top of my head being when Sonic was in space for several issues after issue 125 and he was searching for a way back home. Not that it was great (tho admittedly, I actually liked those issues when I was younger) but it’s an example nonetheless that predates Ian’s writing lead.

And if you’ve actually read the comics, you should know that too. And if you didn’t, that’s entirely on you and shows your hand in that you’re really being more spiteful towards these characters than you’d like to downplay it as. These characters do not have to be the center 100% of the time—they can certainly have starring roles, but they can be rotated and placed in support roles or even not appear at all when the story calls for it.

This is not rocket science, this is not difficult to understand, and from this point forward you have no excuse not to know this anymore after we’ve told this to your face for the umpteenth time.

You know, I could ask that same exact question when it comes to something like Classic Sonic—he was irrelevant as far as the series’s direction for well over a decade since they gave him a slight makeover starting with SA1, and for well over a decade Classic fans could not let that go and accept that version of Sonic wasn’t coming back...

That is until Sonic Team started marketing things toward the Classic gameplay starting (and failing) with Sonic 4, and then officially brought him back In Generations after more than a decade. Then they further cemented that return with Mania, and have been advertising him ever since. And on top of that they officially brought back Mighty and Ray into the games after being in the scrap bin for well over 20 years, albeit with restrictions that they’re Classic characters only (and guess where the only place they were actually still active until 2017?)

I guess the better question is why the hell should fans let go and accept they’re finished when that hasn’t stopped others from getting their favorites to return? If Classic fans can get their favorites to return, if we can get the extended game cast to likely return, I don’t see why fans of Sally and the Freedom Fighters are somehow unable to do the same.
 

But the case is very clear here that you don’t want them to have that opportunity like everyone else, and you’ve shown that on plenty of occasions.

No, it's no secret I don't like them. I'm definitely biased too.

I think it's a matter of spot, so to reply to the others who quoted me. There isn't a place for everyone in the games, did you see Blaze and Big in Forces? Did you see Cream anywhere? Jet besides Olympics? They can't cram everyone unless it's a cameo like a trophy in Generations.  There isn't room.

So if this is about Sally... I guess I wouldn't mind if she was in the Classic branch, yeah, she can fit with a critter/mobini design, and she just fits the Classic series more, she can be a companion to Amy, that role could be given to Honey as well, maybe both?

The rest I really have no clue, you'd have to add 5 characters, it's a lot.

For the IDW comics, they can be brought back IF Sega agrees to resurrect characters from defunct continuities, including Scratch, Grounder, Breezie, Cosmo, Sticks, etc. there are a lot of fan favorites, but it's really too many. But for comics, sure, anyone can be in them if they don't take too much role. I have to remind you in Archie reboot they were not minor characters, they were still protagonists, not supporting characters, they were as important as Sonic and Tails.

The thing is... SEGA is just against the Freedom Fighters, for this reason and because of the Archie comics hostility and legal mess, if they were to be brought back they'd be completely different, new, or based off their SatAM self (which btw I despised).

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1 hour ago, Jack out of the comics! said:

The thing is... SEGA is just against the Freedom Fighters, for this reason and because of the Archie comics hostility and legal mess, if they were to be brought back they'd be completely different, new, or based off their SatAM self (which btw I despised).

I wouldn't be too against them throwing back to their SatAm counterparts because it might mean harking back to their original designs over the increasingly mangled comic redesigns, and I also missed the whimsicality of the cartoon versions.

There are DEFINITELY some things from the SatAm versions that would need to be rectified (eg. Sally forcing the idiot ball onto Sonic non stop, Antoine being an obnoxious load) but the same could be said for the comic counterparts, who are even more of a hot mess in terms of depiction.

The biggest losses would be NICOLE's sapient evolution, and Antoine and Bunnie's pairing (which, while I know I'm the minority here, but I have to say came off as kinda one-note sickly sweet for me).

EDIT: Oh wait no. Penders was responsible more most of Bunnie's best artillery wasn't he? (eg. rocket boots, laser cannon). SatAm design was still my personal favourite though.

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3 hours ago, Jack out of the comics! said:

No, it's no secret I don't like them. I'm definitely biased too.

I think it's a matter of spot, so to reply to the others who quoted me. There isn't a place for everyone in the games, did you see Blaze and Big in Forces? Did you see Cream anywhere? Jet besides Olympics? They can't cram everyone unless it's a cameo like a trophy in Generations.  There isn't room.

The reason isn’t because their isn’t enough room—people have been spouting that load of nonsense since 2006 as well, and it makes my eyes roll that folks are still making this excuse damn well 16 years later to the same extent as the epithet of “Shadow should’ve stayed dead.” Their could be any number of reasons why we didn’t see these characters in the games: time constraints, uncertain placement of roles, or simply because they didn’t think to add them and were more interested in promoting something else, or general incompetence. We could make a list of reasons until the cows come home, but “there’s no room” is not one of them in this day and age when that hasn’t stopped them from trying to cram as many characters as they could in the past.

”There’s no room” was never an excuse when they somehow managed to fit 12 characters in Heroes back in 2004, and it’s especially no excuse in this day and age when things progress to the point where games have been able to fit well over 30+ characters in one game and still add more over time.
 

The only reason people even say that is really just to cover the fact that they don’t want them to get any attention and want to make up an excuse to justify themselves—that was the case when they said that for Shadow after his game soured this franchise’s reputation, they said it for the extended game cast when they wanted a scapegoat for the series problems, and you’re not treading any new ground using it in 2020 when people have long since wised up to what people really mean behind that statement.

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The rest I really have no clue, you'd have to add 5 characters, it's a lot.

You have no idea what’s “a lot” if five extra characters are somehow too much.

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I have to remind you in Archie reboot they were not minor characters, they were still protagonists, not supporting characters, they were as important as Sonic and Tails.

Yeah? So was Big the Cat of all characters. As was Amy Rose and Cream the Rabbit. So what’s the problem aside from you not wanting the Freedom Fighters to get any attention?

And I have to remind you, again, they they were still able to be supporting characters in the Fighters arc during the reboot, which you seem intent on ignoring after I just gave you this example the first time you claimed you never saw them in such a position.

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The thing is... SEGA is just against the Freedom Fighters, for this reason and because of the Archie comics hostility and legal mess, if they were to be brought back they'd be completely different, new, or based off their SatAM self (which btw I despised).

And that wouldn’t be a problem so long as they keep the spirit of these characters intact and make them as recognizable as they were the first time they were rebooted. It wasn’t impossible for them to do the first time around, it sure as hell wouldn’t be impossible to do it a second time—especially when many of us didn’t want them rebooted in the first place and still found them enjoyable.

Edited by CrownSlayer’s Shadow
Wording came off as a little too blunt and aggressive re-reading it (I’m a little drunk, bear with me ...lol)
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