Why dose a lot of people dislike big the cat

[Nathan]

Big the cat never bother as a character in the sonic games besides his awful fishing controls but when I start watching Peter knetter I didn’t know people didn’t really like big the cat. But why yes he’s kind of annoying but I never had a problem that I hated the character so much.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Basically his fishing gameplay and the poor utility he had as a character. There was just not a lot you could seemingly do with him as a character.

That said, it really depends on how you use him tho. Archie Sonic surprisingly managed to use his near-nonexistent characterization to massive extent than I personally thought was even possible to the point he could actually work as one of the main members of the Freedom Fighters during the reboot—certainly changed a lot of perspectives I initially had about him prior to them making more use of him. 
 

And given Heroes found a place for him, it’s not like he can’t be reworked into some playable.

[Nathan]

Yes thanks for replying 

[Shadow Chaos Control]

Big the Cat suffered from poor charcterization, what if the Terminator (no personality) was a big fluffy cat who likes to fish. 

I never hated the character, in fact the fishing mechanics didn’t bother me because I loved fishing in “The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time.” 

There is no Sonic character I’ve outright hated, well except maybe Griff in Sonic SatAM.  

[Nathan]

Big the cat reading this I’ll be back!

[Shadow Chaos Control]

Big The Cat: I’ll be back. 

Returns with a truck full of fish.  

[Nathan]

Ha ha imagine big the cat with a shot gun 

[Sega DogTagz]

Big in many respects is the antithesis of what people have come to love about the characters in this franchise. He's not cool in design or attitude. He's not fast by any stretch of the imagination and he's not even given an important task or job. He's inconsequential - which is quite odd for a Sonic character. 

He's less of a change of pace, and more of a retreat in the direct opposite direction. 

 

and that's without getting into his persona or speech mannerisms. While that is completely subjective - he certainly isn't winning any popularity contests by being the slow witted one in the group. 

[Nathan]

In my opinion I feel like big dose no belong in the sonic universe his design dose but he has no importance to the series 

[Shadow Chaos Control]

Well said @Sega DogTagz but perhaps that is why Big the Cat is a break out character, he subverts expectations. I’d be ironic if Big, not Sonic saved the world oneday because he’s not on Eggman’s or whatever malevolent being’s radar.  

[Nathan]

Thanks for replying everyone 

[Shadow Chaos Control]

4 minutes ago, Nathan said:

Thanks for replying everyone 

No problem, its a good topic. 

[Badnik Mechanic]

The initial dark cloud is purely due to how poorly his gameplay was implemented.

 

But as a character. He's probably up there with Gamma in terms of how well his characterisation is in the game.

Even in games since then he's always been one of the better characters in whatever game he's in.

 

Did a video analysis last year on him. So if you fancy a laugh check it out.

 

[Nathan]

I think gamma is way  better then big in my opinion they should make a game for gamma cause his gameplay was fun in sa 1

[E-122-Psi]

I truthfully like Big but I do GET where all the unpopularity comes from, since SA1 didn't exactly execute his gameplay well and his core archetype (gentle giant 'Lenny'-type dope) is a divisive and overused cliche.

I loved the idea of a more chill campaign in Sonic however and the idea of a 'rando' that was just sorta dragged into the main plot was a neat POV story (I think it's something that makes Big rather distinct as well since he's generally a guy that just does his own thing while most 'Lennys' are sidekicks). I do think Big can be refined upon and made a very fun character without homogenising him all that much. Even the fishing concept can be moderated and made enjoyable, as fan projects like Big's Fishing Derby prove.

[Nathan]

Well I never thought of it that way thanks for replying 

[Scritch the Cat]

Speaking as someone who DOESN’T dislike him, it’s pretty clear to me why.  What he has going against him are:

•He’s barely mobile. (Referring just to SA.) Big the Cat not only moves slowly; far too slowly to gain momentum, but he also has a weak jump with no aerial moves.  His fishing rod can damage enemies but it is so hard to aim that you’re better off avoiding them.  He can lift heavy objects and swim but these aren’t used for any exciting bits.

•His objectives finish ruining any pretense of being Sonic gameplay. (Again, just in SA.) Big goes fishing.  That’s his way of completing his stages and it’s where most time will be spent.  There’s very little platforming.  Fishing may not be objectively boring (though many feel it is), but that it involves luck makes Big the one character out of any SA game that you can’t do speed-runs with.  Even though many opine that the mechs and Amy are too slow, you can still cut down your time an impressive amount if you learn the tricks and practice.  Not with Big.

•His English voice.  I think maybe originally, SEGA just intended Big to be a bit of a hick; not conventionally well-educated and not in a skilled job, but not innately dumb.  But John St John went for American redneck stereotypes, giving him a voice and dialogue that implied his fetus got warped in the womb because his parents were related.  

•Combine the above with his wide frame and his relatively small, inexpressive eyes, and he feels like a caricature of people with Down’s Syndrome.  Many find that offensive.

•Even for those who don’t, the problem is the comedic stereotype isn’t bound to any real jokes.  There’s lots of stupid characters in comedy, but the stupidity is usually just the setup for them to bumble into unfortunate situations, misunderstandings, slapstick, etc.  With Big, at least as portrayed by John St John, that he’s stupid is the punchline, to the only joke he really has.
 

•Forced storyline.  It occurs to me that Big’s role in SA is a more limp version of Mater’s in Cars 2.  Rather than originally being intended as a joke, it feels like the original written intent was to tell an inspirational story about how sometimes, even seemingly unremarkable backwoods blue collar types can save the day.  But they had to write in a very specific plot with a living MacGuffin to make fishing the useful skill for saving the day.

•Unrelatable personality and motive.  Big might be relatable if he just came off as a guy who likes taking it easy, but when it feels more like he does it because he’s too incompetent to do much else, there’s not much to like.  Also, what calls Big to action doesn’t gel with many people’s attitudes.  Rescuing one’s best friend is a fine motive sometimes, but when the best friend is a frog with no perceivable personality—and in fact, not much to imply he likes Big back—it doesn’t come off as “Awww; what a great friend” but “This guy’s grasp on reality is incredibly low.”  To be fair, Big’s friendship motives are improved a lot upon making other friends in SH and beyond.  But with how Froggy has continued to play a role in Big’s priorities, you’d think Froggy would get some characterization of his own.

 •Pointless now and arguably a metaphor for what’s wrong with the series (In some opinions).  Big used to be the most poignant example of how peripheral characters who don’t play like Sonic can bog games down.  At a time when even characters that DO are no longer playable and the most common official treatment of the past is to milk it for memes, Big retains recognition and usage mostly because he’s one of the easiest characters to mock.  Of course, that can be said of Shadow, too, but at least you can also do other things with Shadow.

[Shadow Chaos Control]

@Scritch the Cat Said it better than I can. Well said. 

All I can add is I do see Big displaying symptoms of Down Syndrome. This can be offensive, or inspiring, that there is a character to relate to in the Sonic Universe for people with DS. 

I cannot speak for people with DS, they would have to opine if it offends or inspires. 

[Scritch the Cat]

7 hours ago, Titan Mecha Sonic said:

@Scritch the Cat Said it better than I can. Well said. 

All I can add is I do see Big displaying symptoms of Down Syndrome. This can be offensive, or inspiring, that there is a character to relate to in the Sonic Universe for people with DS. 

I cannot speak for people with DS, they would have to opine if it offends or inspires. 

I think for many, it just annoys.  As I said above, what the writers were intending might have been more like Cars 2 (which is a widely disliked movie anyway), an inspiring story of a simple and unlikely hero managing to save the day against daunting odds, but the narrative and gameplay they conceived didn’t bare that out.  Yes; Big had gotten wrapped up in a conspiracy to resurrect a living weapon, but in practice they didn’t give him scenarios where that fact posed a challenge to him by presenting him with unfamiliar things; instead they gave him only scenarios where fishing was useful.  And Big never expresseD any sort of stress, AFAIR.

It also doesn’t help that Amy’s portion is also an underdog story, and a much better one.  Arguably Tails’ is, too, but his flight gives him such an immediate edge at doing what he’s tasked to do that there’s not much sense to players that he’s an underdog.  Meanwhile Amy in that game is pitted against a much stronger foe, has to outsmart it at all points until she can use an environment against it, and spends some time locked up and has to talk her way out.  They aren’t afraid at showing her being in peril and/or acknowledging that she is in peril.  Also, the flickies are much better at being living plot devices that you rescue, as they have established desires and a family.

Is it possible to do the “inspirationally disabled” trope well?  Well; they named it, so it probably is, but I feel it’s pretty hard.  Firstly, a neurotypical actor doing an impression of a mentally impaired person often tends to sound mocking rather than sympathetic, probably because it’s really hard to approach that in ways besides “If I was mentally inferior to myself, how would I talk?”  Second, the plot has to be really good to keep it from feeling like they were just looking for an excuse to talk in obnoxious voices.  Third, there’s a fine line in terms of what you can show the characters’ accomplishing; too little and their triumph isn’t a triumph, but too great and their triumph isn’t believable.

I think a better way to play a mentally impaired character taken seriously is to talk a lot less, more slowly, with simpler grammar, but in a normal voice.  Big likely wouldn’t be as memorable if he went that route, but he wouldn’t be as hated, either.  Using mostly perfect grammar and rhythm but with a voice that sounds dopey won’t leave you sounding like a person who unfortunately was born with hindered intelligence; rather like a person who is doing an impression of something other people said but in a stupider-sounding voice in order to mock them.  Which, based on what I’ve read, was John St John’s intent; he hated the character himself and thus said all of his lines in a stereotypical stupid voice, and SEGA went with it for whatever reason.  And so it’s odd to expect audiences to like such a character.

[DabigRG]

Where is this stuff about the mentally challenged coming from?

Big is a simpleton with a laid back lifestyle who wanders in and out of a high speedepic action adventure story because his pet got taken away in it(which he acknowledges before his final "boss").

End of story.

[Natie]

I never hated Big, kinda just felt sorry for him in SA1. Poor guy just wants his friend back and he gets flung into scary, dangerous situations he knows nothing about. 

To answer your question, it's just cuz his character and gameplay make little to no sense being included in an action platformer, and the fishing can be either boring or frustrating, yet you need to get through it to win the game. That was well enough to spur up the ire of the reactionary and over-the-top culture that was early internet games criticisms.

[Dr. Detective]

7 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Where is this stuff about the mentally challenged coming from?

Big is a simpleton with a laid back lifestyle who wanders in and out of a high speedepic action adventure story because his pet got taken away in it(which he acknowledges before his final "boss").

End of story.

Big is simple and talks slow and I guess for some people, as well as the people who wrote Sonic Chronicles, "Talks Slow" equals "Is Mentally Challenged" and they carried that past the intended motivation behind the character. That isn't to say he's not of questionable intelligence in comparison to the others but it comes with the territory of being a simpleton who lives in the woods and likes to fish and hangs with a frog. 

His point largely was the fact that he had nothing to do with what was going on in Sonic Adventure. You take the perspective of many archetypes in that game. The Hero, the sidekick, the minion of the villain.

Big's was that of the innocent bystander who got wrapped up in a situation he had nothing to do with. 

His gameplay just wasn't that fun but hey, that's a problem that could have been fixed by making it fun. 

[SBR2]

I never really got the idea Big is supposed to be mentally challenged. Kinda slow sure but that's about it. At most he feels more like he's just oblivious to what's happening around him.

Honestly his fishing game is just kinda whatever to me. His story is finished so fast it never really struck me as all that intrusive.

[E-122-Psi]

I think it's largely a leftover of the whole Lenny inspiration I mentioned. The original Lenny in Of Mice and Men WAS mentally challenged, but that formed numerous parodies and inspirations seen in cartoons and whatnot and pretty much just became the base for the standard dopey archetype. It's not helped that cartoons can get away with pretty much ANY level of stupidity without actually making that official label for them (sure, Family Guy did it, but that was for shock value).

[DabigRG]

13 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

 It's not helped that cartoons can get away with pretty much ANY level of stupidity without actually making that official label for them (sure, Family Guy did it, but that was for shock value).

What was that?