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Sega should release a 3D Anniversary collection for Sonic’s 30th like Nintendo are doing for Mario’s 35th this year!


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I’m sure you all know now but Nintendo confirmed a Mario 3D All-Stars is being released this month on Switch and contains Super Mario 64, Super Mario Sunshine and Super Mario Galaxy! All 3 are remastered with better graphics, smoother gameplay/performance and a added music player mode to listen to all the soundtracks.

Sega has released several 2D collections in the past and another collection won’t happen with the Sonic 3 legal issues.
I think a Remastered 3D collection is long overdue with enhanced graphics, improved cameras and performance.

How about a Remastered compilation of:

Sonic Adventure 

Sonic Adventure 2

Sonic Heroes

Sonic Unleashed

Sonic Colors

Sonic Generations 

Leaving out spinoffs like Shadow The Hedgehog and Sonic Boom

Leaving out Sonic 06 as even if the game was vastly improved, it’s reputation is just too negative for a re-release.

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I'd like it, but expect a slew of games journalists slagging everything to do with it, and dragging out the whole "Sonic was never good" narrative.

The other thing is... Is that when it comes to the games that are on that list that already were released, SEGA's been a remarkably poor custodian when it comes to maintaining them. 

Like for example, even if you like Sonic Adventure DX over the original, the current 2011 version is a technically inferior version to what originally came out on the Gamecube. I highly, highly recommend visiting https://dreamcastify.unreliable.network/ for more details.

This is one of those things that on paper sounds really nice, but I really question SEGA's ability to be able to actually execute ports of all these games to current gen platforms, and not come with a ton of problems, on top of the journalistic class being what it is.

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I'm not saying a collection would be a bad idea, but do you really think they're immediately do it now or something? no, obviously. that's far from the first thing they should do, or are doing, right now.

10 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

This is one of those things that on paper sounds really nice, but I really question SEGA's ability to be able to actually execute ports of all these games to current gen platforms, and not come with a ton of problems, on top of the journalistic class being what it is.

not to sound bold, but isn't Sega kinda-sorta doing this with the Sonic Mania-Team Sonic Racing, and Super Monkey Ball-Sonic Forces thing? if they can put both two different games of different art styles, and two different games of different IP's, then why wouldn't they be able to make a collection of different consoles, genres and controls? and yes, while you could argue that they'd made the inferior SADX port, I would argue that they also made that sonic adventure 2 port a few years later, and it works out just fine.

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8 minutes ago, iambitter21 said:

not to sound bold, but isn't Sega kinda-sorta doing this with the Sonic Mania-Team Sonic Racing, and Super Monkey Ball-Sonic Forces thing? if they can put both two different games of different art styles, and two different games of different IP's, then why wouldn't they be able to make a collection of different consoles, genres and controls? and yes, while you could argue that they'd made the inferior SADX port, I would argue that they also made that sonic adventure 2 port a few years later, and it works out just fine.

That's not the same thing at all. You're talking about re-packaging games that are already on the platform. I'm talking about actually porting these games to a new platform, which is something that SEGA does not have a good track record for.

Especially since a huge portion of these games, SEGA hasn't touched at all since they came out, let alone port to new platforms. Do they even have the source code for these games? I doubt they do.

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I think in an ideal world, I think every Sonic game ever made should be available to buy on current platforms. Certainly, as a Sonic fan, it does feel frustrating that there are actually quite a few Sonic games I havn't played because they released them for a platform I don't own.

Sonic Heroes definetly feels like the most obvious candidate to get the typical "HD remaster" treatment, and Unleashed could use a port that fixes all the framerate problems that game has. Colours hasn't made it off the Wii and again could use an HD remaster. Personally I think the popularity of 2D Sonic would mean a Sonic Advance collection or a Sonic Rush collection would be fairly popular. A Sonic Free Riders port which just bins the godawful motion controls for a standard controller would be good, maybe as part of a Sonic Riders trilogy re-release, with Riders 1 and 2 getting upscaled to HD. Secret Rings and Black Knight both use Wii motion controls, but now Nintendo has the Switch which also uses motions controls, so you could rerelease those games and update the controls to use the Joy Cons.

There really are so many possibilities. Personally I find it interesting how Sega seems to love re-releasing Sonic 1 and 2 so much, and Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 are fairly widely available, and the Game Gear titles are out there too. It's my own speculation really, but while Sonic Heroes isn't seen as a classic, I think there is a ton of nostalgia for it. Unleashed is liked enough. 2D Sonic is popular, so it feels like the Game Boy Advance, DS, and 3DS titles would be a fairly no brainer. Pocket Adventure for the Neo Geo has never been ported and that is probably the closest game you can get to the Mega Drive classics.

Maybe I just underestimate how much time and money it would take to start porting Sonic. To me my dream scenario would be the Mega Man collections Capcom is currently putting out, because the great thing about those collections is that Capcom can easily just put them on future consoles with little work for the rest of time, like as soon as the PS5 and new Xbox are out.
Maybe I'm just annoyed because for example, I don't own a PSP, so I can't play Rivals 1 or 2, I don't own a Wii so I can't play Secret Rings, Black Knight, or Colours.

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31 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

That's not the same thing at all. You're talking about re-packaging games that are already on the platform. I'm talking about actually porting these games to a new platform, which is something that SEGA does not have a good track record for.

I'd then turn to the classic collection for the DS, which had a decently sound collection of the classics. the gap between them and that was a pretty high one.

31 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

Especially since a huge portion of these games, SEGA hasn't touched at all since they came out, let alone port to new platforms.

you could argue the same for Nintendo as well, looking at how little these games were mentioned in Nintendo's timeline, or even glimpsed at. the same thing would be said for Sega, but the difference is that Sega has mentioned these games a lot, whether for fan-service, nostalgia or references.

31 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

Do they even have the source code for these games? I doubt they do.

it could be argued that Sega potentially doesn't have the source codes for those games, but keep in mind, that's a minor speculation. we don't know if Sega has the source codes or not, we can just assume what they have in store due to their divided reputation, especially after a controversial game like sonic forces, why wouldn't someone think this. I'd argue, however, that if Sega even WAS making this (which they obviously aren't, sorry) they'd obviously try to find a source code, Sega isn't THAT dumb, you could even argue against them being dumb in the first place, seeing how they're making high-quality games own their own. what porter DOESN'T look for source codes, they even used them for the inferior SADX port, so what's saying they CAN'T do it HERE?

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Just now, iambitter21 said:

I'd then turn to the classic collection for the DS, which had a decently sound collection of the classics. the gap between them and that was a pretty high one.

Not the best example to be giving, especially that sound was one of the biggest issues that port had. And besides which, there's a huge difference emulating a bunch of Genesis games and you know... Actually PORTING a game to run natively on new hardware.

Just now, iambitter21 said:

you could argue the same for Nintendo as well, looking at how little these games were mentioned in Nintendo's timeline, or even glimpsed at. the same thing would be said for Sega, but the difference is that Sega has mentioned these games a lot, whether for fan-service, nostalgia or references. it could be argued that Sega potentially doesn't have the source codes for those games, but keep in mind, that's a minor speculation.

And the verdict is still out on the actual quality of the 3D Mario ports. They're not out yet.

But we do have precedent though with the Windwaker HD and Twilight Princess HD ports, and those were both pretty positively received. You compare and contrast SEGA's track record for porting, it's a lot more mixed.

Just now, iambitter21 said:

we don't know if Sega has the source codes or not, we can just assume what they have in store due to their divided reputation, especially after a controversial game like sonic forces, why wouldn't someone think this. I'd argue, however, that if Sega even WAS making this (which they obviously aren't, sorry) they'd obviously try to find a source code, Sega isn't THAT dumb, you could even argue against them being dumb in the first place, seeing how they're making high-quality games own their own. what porter DOESN'T look for source codes, they even used them for the inferior SADX port, so what's saying they CAN'T do it HERE?

I don't know, this is the same SEGA that's still selling SA:DX in the state that it is in.

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I feel like at a time when Sonic's reputation in the video game space isn't exactly great, this wouldn't be a very good idea.

Look, I get it; Sonic fans are Sonic fans, and they're willing to excuse the enormous flaws of games like Unleashed. I get it, that's fine, y'know. But re-releasing games such as Unleashed, or Heroes, it's just gonna remind those who don't go as easy on these games, those outside the die-hard fanbase, why they didn't like them at the time. And that's not gonna give Sonic a break after Forces' reception; especially when a lot of people outside the die-hard fan bubble actually consider games like Unleashed worse than the dreaded Forces.

I'm not saying they should never port these games just because people think they're bad; from a preservation standpoint I think all these games should at least be on PC (though I'd prioritise a slew of other SEGA games over them in that regard). Shit, I hate Gain Ground but I think the AGES release was worthwhile given it's the first true arcade port it's had.

I just don't think it's exactly a home-run idea like Mario, so from that standpoint they're not really comparable. Even something like Sunshine is at least seen by most as a fairly polished experience, and 64 and Galaxy are seen as revolutionary, some of the best games of all time. Porting those is a no-brainer. Sonic's repertoire... not so much. The two Adventure titles, I could see. I could see Heroes coasting in via pure nostalgia and that's about it. Colours might be iffy given the supposed reliance on Nintendo's lighting tech. Generations is the most likely candidate, but ironically the fanbase would probably lament yet more exposure to Classic Sonic. Unleashed... just isn't this beloved thing die-hards seem to think it is.

45 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

Do they even have the source code for these games? I doubt they do.

All this source code guff comes from SEGA supposedly losing the source to an old Saturn game or something. I think it's safe to say they take slightly better care of their Sonic source codes. That's not the issue. 

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11 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

All this source code guff comes from SEGA supposedly losing the source to an old Saturn game or something. I think it's safe to say they take slightly better care of their Sonic source codes. That's not the issue. 

I wasn't aware of that being the case, but this is a fairly frequent occurrence in the industry. This is why you have all these reverse engineering efforts popping up in recent years, it's why we have Doom 64 on Switch. It's why Diablo 1 was able to be recently re-released. It's why we have that PC port of Mario 64 that popped up.

I don't know if SEGA still has the source code for legacy Sonic games, but given that games like Sonic Adventure are constantly getting worse as time goes on with every new port, that to me comes as a bit of an indication that something is off.

To be clear this isn't just a SEGA problem. The video game industry as a whole has a long standing issue with not just preserving games themselves, but the assets and utilities that was used to make them. This is why you have instances like the ROM's that Nintendo uses for their services for their NES games having identical header files to commonly distributed images that have been circulating for decades. 

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I’d be ecstatic for a bundle release of Adventure/2/Heroes for the Switch. And as for those worried about the potential negative response from IGN and Game Grumps, I’m past the point of giving a crap about what they say about those titles. They had it their way for a long time and I feel the games had suffered for it. So if this isn’t planned already SEGA should get to it.

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Sure. Any legacy game port is a good thing. Unfortunately that proposal is even more generous than what Nintendo was willing to give us today, so I wouldn't count on it.

Also, reputation or no, having a big Sonic catalog be readily available on modern platforms is always a useful thing for bringing in new fans.

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48 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

Not the best example to be giving, especially that sound was one of the biggest issues that port had. And besides which, there's a huge difference emulating a bunch of Genesis games and you know... Actually PORTING a game to run natively on new hardware.

I never meant THAT type of sound, like the "safe and sound" type of sound, polished, efficient. I understand the sound thing, but I wouldn't find it that big of an issue.

50 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

And the verdict is still out on the actual quality of the 3D Mario ports. They're not out yet.

the argument I made still stands, Nintendo hasn't really mentioned the old 3d Mario game in a LOOOONG time, and no "it's not out yet" excuse can take that away.

53 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

I don't know, this is the same SEGA that's still selling SA:DX in the state that it is in.

 SADX aging well or not, they still probably had some of the source codes for that remaster, so they COULD use it for the collection.

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1 hour ago, Tracker_TD said:

Contrary to popular belief, these games didn't get their reputation overnight from the mean ol' Arin Hanson. IGN and Game Grumps aren't what I'm talking about, because if it were actually just that simple I'd be singing a different tune.

I understand that but getting releases of these games or hell new games that actually appeal to me that contains actual 3D gameplay and allowing my favorite characters to be more than spineless lackeys shouldn’t be dependent on constant catering to those who believe Sonic should remain in the limbo of 1991 or can’t write a review for a game without bitching about 06.
 

Is it really too much to ask for games whether it be a remastered versions of a games I enjoyed when I was 12 or actual new games where the “3D titles” contain genuine 3D gameplay, allowing me to play as favorites like Knuckles or Amy that goes beyond a 15 minute DLC, or doesn’t constantly throw in my face how “iconic” Green Hill Zone is along using other Genesis imagery as a worn out crutch?

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If they can port up the back half of the Megaman X series a couple of contentious Sonic games isn't an issue. There just isn't a reason to be against this from a practical standpoint. People won't just forget those games happened just because Sega decides not to preserve them. LPers, social media, and even SEGA THEMSELVES still regularly call attention to the fact that these games exist. Might as well bank off offering players the authentic experience. 

There's no running away from what they did with this IP, especially since they're still doing weird shit and banking off it anyway.

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Considering how Sega nowadays is doing the complete opposite of churning out Sonic games left and right, I don't think a compilation of most/all of the 3D games (presumably, Adventure 1 through Unleashed, or up to Colors if the Nintendo-exclusive games were allowed to be brought to other consoles) would be the worst thing in the world.

Having some sort of modern collection of the 3D entries would at least give people something to chew on until the next game is announced (as opposed to the barren wasteland things have been), and I think it would also be worth the effort in terms of contemporary preservation for today's/future consoles. It would be one thing if these games were getting the Sonic 1/2 treatment of getting new ports every one-two years to various consoles, or even ports to Steam like Generations and onwards; but most of the 3D games beyond Adventure 2 haven't received any re-release at all (and only Heroes has received a now long-outdated PC release). And I think for all of the fans who lament that the games could had been noticeably better had they gone back and changed some design decisions or fixed some bugs, I think a compilation project would be the ideal project to do something of that nature.

But I do think it would have to involve a level of effort and genuine interest that I can't envision the current Sonic Team group even remotely having. At best, I envision them doing a basic port/emulation job that's competent, but nothing more beyond that. At worst, they would invoke the late 2000s Sonic Adventure port and make the games (somehow) even worse than they were on their original release.

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I mean, I don't see what harm porting these games into a collection would do either. It'd be nice to have them on an updated console I guess. I'm really not all too concerned about anyone drumming up negative press for these decade old games. At worse, it'll be par for the course for Sonic but I can't really see anyone outside of the Sonic fanbase giving THAT much of a shit about a collection of old games to the point where it would damage his reputation in any meaningful way. It'd spring forth memories of old to the popular consciousness maybe but these games already exist and are out there in the zeitgeist. It's not going to be seen as some sort of major step forward for the Sonic franchise that everyone else needs to pay attention to.

Most collections I don't even hear about being sold. Sometimes I just come across them when I randomly type a franchise name in the search bar. Maybe they'll get a name drop on E3 week or something but I usually just tend to stumble upon them. There's so many out there. 

Now if the concern were instead for something more like the Crash Re-ignited trilogy, that would be a different story. 

And honestly, I would still prefer they go that direction given the choice. Any opportunity they could take to make those old games better and something to experience as a game coming out in 2020 and beyond would be greatly appreciated.

Plus, the worry about them being bad would mold into the worry about ANY new Sonic game being bad. The expectation that they're concerned about their quality would and SHOULD carry over if they ever desire to just remake them from the ground up. 

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Yeah, I mean to me, I think the obvious way to do this is through compilations. Ofcourse Heroes or Unleashed aren't classics, but if you put them in a pack that is reasonably priced, like say for example Heroes, Shadow, '06, Unleashed PS3/360, Unleashed PS2/Wii, Colours into a package, with the neccesary features like HD upscaling, fix Unleashed frame rates to run smoothly, stuff like that. Hell, they could always slightly alter the games for some quality of life improvements, like how the Wii U port of Zelda Wind Waker cut down the in-game paywall of the Tri-Force hunt. Heroes could be modified so that you don't have to beat it 4 times with Chaos Emeralds to unlock the last story, '06 could at least have the lives system cut out and maybe have more generous checkpoints, assuming they can't really fix any tech issues with that game. Unleashed could essentially make the Werehog sections optional etc.

When Mega Collection Plus and Gems Collection were released, their covers advertised the good games in them. Mega Collection Plus advertised Sonic 1, 2, 3 and K, Gems advertised Sonic CD, Sonic R, Sonic the Fighters, with the Game Gear games really there to fill the package and add some value, rather than be the selling point.

Consider how many handheld games there are that havn't left their original systems. Sonic Pocket Adventure, Sonic Advance 1, 2, 3, Sonic Battle, Sonic Rush, Sonic Rush Adventure, Colours DS, Generations 3DS, Lost World 3DS, Shattered Crystal, Fire & Ice, Sonic Rivals, Sonic Rivals 2. There are some creative ways you could package this games togther. Or hell, with Sonic Riders, Sonic R, Sonic Rivals, you could probably shove together a good racing compilation.

Yeah, one game by itself maybe isn't that strong, but I think the expectation for ports nowadays is to do collections. Just do a collection and make sure the better games are highlighted, and the less strong games help give the package more value.

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8 hours ago, KingScoopaKoopa said:

Or the Crash/Spyro treatment. Either would be better than what they're doing for Mario.

Thank you, just what a incredibly lazy scheme from Nintendo. It's practically highway robbery and some Mario fans are eating it up. Sunshine is literally the only justification I can see for someone given how much it sales on Ebay. Mario 64 in it is downright pathetic, couldn't have been bothered to go with the DS version and what it offered with the upgraded graphics and additional content, especially considering a complaint for it was the controls by some players, this would have been the one time to fix all that for those people and they blew it. Can't say I'm surprised because Sticker Star shows Mario fans will buy anything with the Mario title slap to it.

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