Why is there a stigma against the Sonic community

[Scritch the Cat]

On 2/11/2021 at 9:09 PM, sassytassie said:

From what I've seen we have a bad rep mostly because we "whine" about everything (though let's be honest, a lot of it is for good reason). But then there's those fans that make a big deal about small things such as Sonic having green eyes lol. 

These are known as "strawmen"; that is, niche examples of a subset of people blown out of proportion to misrepresent those people.  It's been mentioned by myself and others how CWC has often been brought up to vilify Sonic fans, autistic people, and eventually, trans people, and in this case what's being tarred is the notion that loyal old customers deserve respect.  Yes; that's a tiny detail and it's stupid to write a game off based solely on it, but the fact remains that Sonic 4 was marketed towards nostalgic fans who didn't like what the series had become, so SEGA definitely shouldn't be free of scrutiny as to  how well it met that niche.  In fact, when the game came with an idiotic promotion campaign that boasted about how only Sonic was playable and this somehow made it more like the Classic games, I'd say being disowned and chastised by idiots for not being enough like the classics is what it deserved.  It sure didn't deserve success.

Moving on, though, I resent dwelling on that "green eyes" point because I feel that loyal old customers do deserve respect.  After playing video games for three decades and seeing many iconic brands premiere, I can say it always feels lousy when a pre-existing franchise does things that alienate its original customers.  It felt that way when G3 of Pokemon was incompatible with the previous two, it felt that way when Rareware decided not to make the Banjo-Kazooie 3 they promised and instead slapped the Banjo license onto an unrelated vehicle-building game, and most recently it felt that way when the ending of River City Girls made iconic heroes into jerks for the sake of smug meta-humor.  Naturally with Sonic there are too many instances of fandom betrayal to count, which brings us to a point that should be obvious to most people here, but I'm typing it anyway: Sonic fans seem whiny to outsiders because we actually give a crap about things those outsiders don't.  Lots of people don't like the choices SEGA makes for this series, but for those who weren't Sonic fans anyway, a bad Sonic game is just another bad game out of many, and it's not like there aren't plenty of good games, too.  But if you're a Sonic fan, a bad Sonic game isn't just bad in itself; it's bad because it's the absence of a good Sonic game. 

To any outsider still under the delusion that Sonic fans are unpleasable: Try asking Sonic fans you meet what they want from the series.  Most of them, I think, will be able to give you a pretty clear answer, and furthermore, an answer well within practical bounds as most won't be unprecedented.  They won't necessarily agree with each other, but most Sonic fans can point to something that came before as a precedent for what should be done again today.  Some will suggest a combination of several things, but again, we know they are doable because we've seen them done.  It's not our fault that SEGA can't be assed to do them again.  Oh, and do them well.  To the same outsiders who might be trying to catch us with shit like "But they did give you another 3D game with Tails and Knuckles playable; it was Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric", here is my response: "Yeah, and it sucked.  Maybe to you people who don't like Sonic anyway, this doesn't mean much, but there's more to game quality than merely including certain things in a game.  If you can't fathom why we're still not happy after getting a 3D game wherein we play as Tails and Knuckles, it may be because you have no experience of playing that game to experience how bad it is, or maybe no desire to do so, or maybe the inability to enjoy even a good game involving those things makes you unable to perceive the difference."

The problem is not that many Sonic fans are unpleasable.  The problem is that many Sonic games are unpleasing.  The fact that Sonic fans have experienced a few that they actually do like is what makes them fans but it's also what makes them annoyed.

[sassytassie]

1 hour ago, Scritch the Cat said:

These are known as "strawmen"; that is, niche examples of a subset of people blown out of proportion to misrepresent those people.  It's been mentioned by myself and others how CWC has often been brought up to vilify Sonic fans, autistic people, and eventually, trans people, and in this case what's being tarred is the notion that loyal old customers deserve respect.  Yes; that's a tiny detail and it's stupid to write a game off based solely on it, but the fact remains that Sonic 4 was marketed towards nostalgic fans who didn't like what the series had become, so SEGA definitely shouldn't be free of scrutiny as to  how well it met that niche.  In fact, when the game came with an idiotic promotion campaign that boasted about how only Sonic was playable and this somehow made it more like the Classic games, I'd say being disowned and chastised by idiots for not being enough like the classics is what it deserved.  It sure didn't deserve success.

Moving on, though, I resent dwelling on that "green eyes" point because I feel that loyal old customers do deserve respect.  After playing video games for three decades and seeing many iconic brands premiere, I can say it always feels lousy when a pre-existing franchise does things that alienate its original customers.  It felt that way when G3 of Pokemon was incompatible with the previous two, it felt that way when Rareware decided not to make the Banjo-Kazooie 3 they promised and instead slapped the Banjo license onto an unrelated vehicle-building game, and most recently it felt that way when the ending of River City Girls made iconic heroes into jerks for the sake of smug meta-humor.  Naturally with Sonic there are too many instances of fandom betrayal to count, which brings us to a point that should be obvious to most people here, but I'm typing it anyway: Sonic fans seem whiny to outsiders because we actually give a crap about things those outsiders don't.  Lots of people don't like the choices SEGA makes for this series, but for those who weren't Sonic fans anyway, a bad Sonic game is just another bad game out of many, and it's not like there aren't plenty of good games, too.  But if you're a Sonic fan, a bad Sonic game isn't just bad in itself; it's bad because it's the absence of a good Sonic game. 

To any outsider still under the delusion that Sonic fans are unpleasable: Try asking Sonic fans you meet what they want from the series.  Most of them, I think, will be able to give you a pretty clear answer, and furthermore, an answer well within practical bounds as most won't be unprecedented.  They won't necessarily agree with each other, but most Sonic fans can point to something that came before as a precedent for what should be done again today.  Some will suggest a combination of several things, but again, we know they are doable because we've seen them done.  It's not our fault that SEGA can't be assed to do them again.  Oh, and do them well.  To the same outsiders who might be trying to catch us with shit like "But they did give you another 3D game with Tails and Knuckles playable; it was Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric", here is my response: "Yeah, and it sucked.  Maybe to you people who don't like Sonic anyway, this doesn't mean much, but there's more to game quality than merely including certain things in a game.  If you can't fathom why we're still not happy after getting a 3D game wherein we play as Tails and Knuckles, it may be because you have no experience of playing that game to experience how bad it is, or maybe no desire to do so, or maybe the inability to enjoy even a good game involving those things makes you unable to perceive the difference."

The problem is not that many Sonic fans are unpleasable.  The problem is that many Sonic games are unpleasing.  The fact that Sonic fans have experienced a few that they actually do like is what makes them fans but it's also what makes them annoyed.

Damn, Amen to this. You’re right about us knowing what we want. It’s not even anything crazy. The fact that a FAN had to create a Sonic game that was the first to be considered good in a long time is .. sad (Mania, obv). And you’d think after that SEGA would be like, “wow they really like what this guy did. Let’s keep it going.” But no, like you said, they clearly cannot be assed. I was just watching a review video of Boom to show my brother how garbage it was in quality alone and we were saying how after the debacle that was Sonic ‘06 you’d think they’d have seriously learned their lesson. Apparently it’s not about that though since that’s twice now that major pressure was put on the team to release it before it was even ready. So the answer is clear, SEGA cares more about money than pleasing their fans. I’ve sort of come to accept this and I just stick to playing the older games I really love.