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StarWarsSonic

I have a bad feeling the 30th Anniversary 2021 game will be delayed till 2022

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We all know Sega are holding back on showing off the new game without a big event to get the fans excited! I mean it was meant to be revealed early this year until COVID came along.

Problem is it’s impossible for Sega to organise a large exciting event for Sonic fans during this pandemic and COVID is not going away anytime soon! (We will still probably be in the same situation by Summer/Autumn next year)

Thst doesn’t give Sega much time to organise an event for fans before releasing the game.

Two plus points  to delaying until 2022 

1. Gives Sega a few more months of development and playtesting time 

2. It would launch the same year as the second movie! That would be an awesome double whammy year for Sonic fans.

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I don't think it'd be bad news, I agree. SEGA, just... take your time, don't rush. Whenever it's ready it it will be released. Simple.

I know vastly different case, but 6 more months of production and the movie changed dramatically, 3 before the original release and 3 for extra time. It made the difference, same thing applies here. 

I know Covid affected everything, and delayed everything but still, it's ready when it's ready, I'm gonna be patient, as long as they give us something... anything, like shorts, updates, maybe an announcement. I just want news at this point, I don't want the game ready yet.

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I'm kind of in the dark in here so could anyone be kind of enough to give me a short brief of anything we know regarding 30th anniversary or atleast give a link to a good Sonic news channel on YT or something?

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3 hours ago, StarWarsSonic said:

 I mean it was meant to be revealed early this year until COVID came along.

According to who?

Just that as far as I'm aware Sega have pretty much said since January that this year is for the Sega 60th celebrations.

Next year is hedgehog.

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Have thought for a while now that a 2022 release is a very real possibility given the pandemic, but I agree that I don’t think it’s a bad thing. And I think they could even still tie the marketing in with the anniversary if they wanted. Street Fighter had it’s 30th Anniversary in 2017 and Capcom didn’t release the Street Fighter 30th Anniversary Collection until 2018. And I know there was some kind of effort to rope Mania and Forces into the 25th Anniversary despite them being released in the 26th year, although I’m unsure if the connection was simply them being announced at the 25th anniversary event.

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The only bad feeling I have is that the 4 year wait time won't have been spent on making the actual game but instead in figuring out how to make the game work for next gen consoles or some NEW, new engine. Then the actual game will be made in like 6 months or something, using whatever assets from Generations and Lost World they didn't use yet. 

That's the only fear I have. If they are indeed using all this time to work on the game, then please, take your time. 

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1 minute ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

The only bad feeling I have is that the 4 year wait time won't have been spent on making the actual game but instead in figuring out how to make the game work for next gen consoles or some NEW, new engine. Then the actual game will be made in like 6 months or something, using whatever assets from Generations and Lost World they didn't use yet. 

That's the only fear I have. If they are indeed using all this time to work on the game, then please, take your time. 

The new set of consoles is similar to the last set, so I wouldn't be concerned there. I don't expect the next Sonic game to be much of a hardware showcase either. Those days are long gone. 

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The “Forces took 4 years to make and look how that turned out” comment is a very iffy statement, because none of us have any idea what that actually means.

“Development” is a loaded word with multiple definitions and I think it confuses people when we (game devs included) tend to use the word interchangeably when talking about several different things. With regard to Forces, it’s been alleged that development beginning right after Lost World only meant pre-production. It’s also been alleged it was actual development. It’s been alleged it was just the production of the game’s engine. It’s been alleged it was prior to a supposed significant portion of the game being brought back to the drawing board after SOA’s feedback. It’s been alleged development was held off until they wanted to wait and see how Boom’s reception went in late 2014 before deciding on how the next game should take shape. It’s been alleged that the engine was developed in 2014, pre-production in 2015 and then actual production beginning in 2016. All of these have been claimed and none have been proven. I feel we often take casual statements mentioned in interviews here and there by Iizuka etc. much too literally. None of us know how long Forces truly took to develop in the sense of actual tangible production.

Regardless, my (also unproven) hunch is that Forces’ issue wasn’t a lack of time or effort. I think it was budget. I think SEGA were reluctant to pour a lot of money into the game this time round following the lower sales of Lost World and Rise of Lyric, and played it safe. But less money means less resources the team had when trying to match the relatively ambitious story and scope Forces was gunning for. That’s not to say it’s impossible to make something grand with a small wallet, or that something can’t be greater than the sum of its parts. I just think in Forces’ case, they didn’t quite get there.

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Iizuka stated in this April 2017 interview with Famitsu that Forces started development in 2017 2013, right after Lost World finished production; Nakamura in this November interview with Famitsu later that year went on to clarify how that production time was spent--with the first year spent on new engine/technology development (Hedgehog Engine 2), and full-scale production being spent on the game's fourth/final year of development. He also clarified the second and third year had production of the game being handled by a small team, and noted that development on this title was longer than other Sonic games.

None of the above I just listed is claims/rumors/speculation from unofficial sources, and to try and dismiss it as such would be silly. It's also silly to imply Sonic Team's management of Forces' production period should be given the benefit of the doubt, while also ruling out comments ST said themselves on Forces' production period as something not to be considered seriously. That's practically arguing the studio should be able to eat their cake and still have it, which is a meaningless position to take.

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You meant to say Forces started development in 2013 rather than 2017, yes? Thanks for the Famitsu link, I hadn’t realized the game’s cycle had been broken down so meticulously and clearly stated by Nakamura, I didn’t know that and it’s a fair point. But I wasn’t by any means defending the game’s development, I’m critical of it too. I’m not saying “Hey, go easy on them guys, they didn’t have long to make this”, that would be misunderstanding my point.

 My first point was simply that Forces was not in full scale development for four years, and I fear some of us who say "It took them four years to make Forces" think it was. If, according to that article, only one year of full production was baked into the game’s schedule as you mention, then such a small amount of time being allocated for full scale development seems comparatively smaller to me when considering the scope of previous mainline 3D titles. (Unleashed had at least 2 years of development, not including the development of the Hedgehog Engine, although I couldn’t admittedly find anything about pre-production schedules or comparative team size, but Unleashed was bound to have a bigger team, right?) The production schedule must be dictated in part by the allocated budget/resources though, and that was my main assertion and criticism of the game's production, that I believe Forces was simply not given the same budget/production values as previous entries in the series, which resulted in the game ending up lesser scale in its eventual end, with it having been assigned a relatively shorter period of full scale production as the result of it being a smaller and (I suspect) cheaper-to-make game, with only one year of full development according to Nakamura, to your point.

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1 hour ago, Gotta Go Rational said:

You meant to say Forces started development in 2013 rather than 2017, yes? Thanks for the Famitsu link, I hadn’t realized the game’s cycle had been broken down so meticulously and clearly stated by Nakamura, I didn’t know that and it’s a fair point. But I wasn’t by any means defending the game’s development, I’m critical of it too. I’m not saying “Hey, go easy on them guys, they didn’t have long to make this”, that would be misunderstanding my point.

Yeah, that 2017 bit was an error on my point. Fixed and noted.

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I could forgive a pandemic-induced delay—maybe even past Sonic’s 30th anniversary—if only SEGA revealed some information on what is being delayed.  It’s understandable that development would slow, but they haven’t even shared any concept for what the next Sonic game will be.  

Granted, under normal circumstances, these details aren’t revealed to the public until a preview that can display more technical work completed on the game, but these are not normal circumstances.  If the pandemic has prevented them from reaching that point where they can show something good, then they should recognize that by now, fans will settle for being shown something at all.  That makes me worried that what SEGA has in the works for Sonic would strike many people as something bad, and that SEGA is aware of this.  It could literally be Sonic Forces 2, a title that was leaked somewhere at some point, and if it’s just more of what was in that game, then it’s a safe assumption that many people will react negatively upon seeing it.  

A big worry for me is that their plan is, in fact, to meet their deadline for the anniversary, but the game they have for it will be so mediocre, and would still have been so mediocre without the pandemic, that this is the real reason for the delay.  Release any game on time after being rocked by a pandemic and they might be able to spin it as a tale of tenacity.  Release teasers that let on how lackluster that game is, and it’ll just feel like the same old story of the company that has lost its groove for years, if not decades.

I’d love to be proven wrong about this, but it’s been obvious for years that SEGA is not interested in proving me wrong.  That doesn’t mean literally me, which goes without saying for most people, but people who want what I want from this series: The return of Tails and Knuckles playable and fully 3D environments. (In the same game, which is a platformer.) SEGA’s vision for this series, until proven otherwise, isn’t just something else; it’s mutually exclusive to what I want.

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11 hours ago, Miraculous Milo said:

Iizuka stated in this April 2017 interview with Famitsu that Forces started development in 2017 2013, right after Lost World finished production; Nakamura in this November interview with Famitsu later that year went on to clarify how that production time was spent--with the first year spent on new engine/technology development (Hedgehog Engine 2), and full-scale production being spent on the game's fourth/final year of development. He also clarified the second and third year had production of the game being handled by a small team, and noted that development on this title was longer than other Sonic games.

None of the above I just listed is claims/rumors/speculation from unofficial sources, and to try and dismiss it as such would be silly. It's also silly to imply Sonic Team's management of Forces' production period should be given the benefit of the doubt, while also ruling out comments ST said themselves on Forces' production period as something not to be considered seriously. That's practically arguing the studio should be able to eat their cake and still have it, which is a meaningless position to take.

It is important to consider that management would be diving up duties on the project. If management didn't see Sonic Forces as a project worth throwing more than a year's worth of full production at, that might say more about what Sega thinks the brand is worth than Sonic Team's actual skill. If Sonic Team is actually just suffering from a lack of talent, it would still be on Sega for not getting the right people involved. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Scritch the Cat said:

I could forgive a pandemic-induced delay—maybe even past Sonic’s 30th anniversary—if only SEGA revealed some information on what is being delayed.  It’s understandable that development would slow, but they haven’t even shared any concept for what the next Sonic game will be.  

Granted, under normal circumstances, these details aren’t revealed to the public until a preview that can display more technical work completed on the game, but these are not normal circumstances.  If the pandemic has prevented them from reaching that point where they can show something good, then they should recognize that by now, fans will settle for being shown something at all.  That makes me worried that what SEGA has in the works for Sonic would strike many people as something bad, and that SEGA is aware of this.  It could literally be Sonic Forces 2, a title that was leaked somewhere at some point, and if it’s just more of what was in that game, then it’s a safe assumption that many people will react negatively upon seeing it.  

A big worry for me is that their plan is, in fact, to meet their deadline for the anniversary, but the game they have for it will be so mediocre, and would still have been so mediocre without the pandemic, that this is the real reason for the delay.  Release any game on time after being rocked by a pandemic and they might be able to spin it as a tale of tenacity.  Release teasers that let on how lackluster that game is, and it’ll just feel like the same old story of the company that has lost its groove for years, if not decades.

I’d love to be proven wrong about this, but it’s been obvious for years that SEGA is not interested in proving me wrong.  That doesn’t mean literally me, which goes without saying for most people, but people who want what I want from this series: The return of Tails and Knuckles playable and fully 3D environments. (In the same game, which is a platformer.) SEGA’s vision for this series, until proven otherwise, isn’t just something else; it’s mutually exclusive to what I want.

There's no sign that the brand is particularly suffering if the movie and the numbers the games are doing are any indication. What reason is there to rush? I haven't heard a good reason for it yet aside from satiating hardcore fans's impatience, and that's a small amount of the people who buy Sonic games, even these days when sales and budgets are lower. 

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10 hours ago, Wraith said:

There's no sign that the brand is particularly suffering if the movie and the numbers the games are doing are any indication. What reason is there to rush? I haven't heard a good reason for it yet aside from satiating hardcore fans's impatience, and that's a small amount of the people who buy Sonic games, even these days when sales and budgets are lower. 

I have no idea how you garnered any such notion from my post.  This brand may be doing fine financially, but critically, while it has been much worse, it has also been much better.  Large portions of the fan base still feel let down.  Sufficient profits don’t refute my theory that they’re delaying showing things because they worry they’ll make a bad impression, though granted there isn’t confirmation, either.
 

Meanwhile, it bears mentioning that 2020 is almost over now.  If there is to be a game released on the 30th anniversary, it feels like now is a reasonable distance from then to expect it to be revealed.

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1 minute ago, Scritch the Cat said:

I have no idea how you garnered any such notion from my post.  This brand may be doing fine financially, but critically, while it has been much worse, it has also been much better.  Large portions of the fan base still feel let down.  Sufficient profits don’t refute my theory that they’re delaying showing things because they worry they’ll make a bad impression, though granted there isn’t confirmation, either.
 

Meanwhile, it bears mentioning that 2020 is almost over now.  If there is to be a game released on the 30th anniversary, it feels like now is a reasonable distance from then to expect it.

I have metrics backing me when I say Sonic is doing alright. Discourse online about the series has always been volatile, so it's just not going to be the voice sega prioritizes over numbers.

And the pandemic almost certainly delayed progress on the game. That includes any chance that it would be ready to be shown any time soon. It's better to just move the time table back than rush to show something that won't be out for another couple of years. Hardcore Sonic fans will be engaged no matter when they choose to show it and casual fans aren't gonna be thinking much about Sonic until they see it. 

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3 hours ago, Scritch the Cat said:

I have no idea how you garnered any such notion from my post.  This brand may be doing fine financially, but critically, while it has been much worse, it has also been much better.  Large portions of the fan base still feel let down.  Sufficient profits don’t refute my theory that they’re delaying showing things because they worry they’ll make a bad impression, though granted there isn’t confirmation, either.
 

Meanwhile, it bears mentioning that 2020 is almost over now.  If there is to be a game released on the 30th anniversary, it feels like now is a reasonable distance from then to expect it.

So what you are saying is SEGA is scared of the fans reaction? Or you are guessing they are developing another bad project so they are ashamed of showing it? IMO if the latter is the case, it's a fear that the next game is bad like Forces.

There is no indication the next game will be like Forces, especially since SEGA is so ashamed of it and refuses to acknowledge the game most of the time. They definitely want to make a better game this time, but there is no indication they will succeed either.

It's more of a general feeling by Sonic fans to say "SEGA will doom the next game and the franchise", it's an exaggeration which is actually simply a fear. Because they are afraid the franchise will die or something like that, so they keep saying "Sonic is in dark ages".

He isn't. He is in dark ages yeah, if you only consider Sonic Forces, but there is Mania, there is TSR which also had profit, there is IDW, there is merch, and of course there is the movie. Sales are going great. The real question here is the next Modern game, if SEGA is capable of making it decent.

Sorry for the rant, but some fans like to use Forces as example to say Sonic is doing really bad and minimize all the good stuff.

Personally I don't care about the release date, I just want news, please SEGA...

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On 11/24/2020 at 7:37 AM, Scritch the Cat said:

 Sufficient profits don’t refute my theory that they’re delaying showing things because they worry they’ll make a bad impression, though granted there isn’t confirmation, either.

MmmmmHmmmm...

That's an interesting theory... I however have another one.

 

1: Outside of Sega of Japan, and 1 department in Sega of America.

Absolutely nobody in Sega has any idea about what is happening with ANY aspect of Sonic. I've learnt this myself recently when I found some unannounced stuff, I asked my contacts at SOE about it any they all emailed me back saying they had no idea about it and didn't even know it existed. 

 

2: Are you familiar with a television program called "The news?" 

Because according to 'the news', whilst Japan didn't order a lockdown of the country due to Covid-19, it did request companies to voluntarily issue work from home orders and policies. 

Which Sega complied with.

To add to this, the Japanese government also restricted the movement of Goods and people entering Japan from the start to the middle of this year. 

This presents a problem since Sega have been shifting staff to and from the United States since the end of 2018, specifically on Sonic development.

 

To add to this, Sega of America, which is the other department that knows what's going on with Sonic was also hit with a stay at home order, which they are STILL complying with in part with a limited number of staff in a building at any one time.

Even though they have nothing to do with Sonic's 30th, Sega Europe are also in a similar situation. 

 

3: Even before Covid-19 was a thing, Sega have stated repeatedly that 2020 was supposed to be a celebration of Sega's 60th and not a focus on Sonic, Sonic was and by all accounts is getting the focus NEXT year.  

 

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Just because we haven't heard anything significant about it does not mean there hasn't been significant progress on the game. My guess is that it's going to be a Holiday 2021 title anyways, which would make sense with why we've not even heard a peep about it. Especially with Covid, a lot of games are getting revealed closer to release anyways, since things are a lot more complicated, time-consuming and unsure right now. When something is about a year away, you have no idea how things can or will turn out, in this kind of environment. People can't work on stuff as often or as conveniently at home, and I'm sure even transitioning to that starkly contrasted workflow was a hard challenge to transfer to and caused all sorts of headaches and delays.

Even if it were the case that it misses the anniversary year because of everything that's happened since Covid began, like what @Donnie Jay said, it would be a welcome change to show that SEGA truly does care about quality releases over timely ones for once. Most Sonic games got rushed to market, including the most recent main game of Forces- engine took 3 years to make, but the game itself was really only in production for 1 year.

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Forces was delayed a year past it's 25th anniversary deadline tough, so not sure if that's such a good example.
If anything, it boggles the mind why the big anniversary game only had an empty engine and vague concept outlines on the big day.
Practically every Sonic game from Fire and Ice on has been delayed. Didn't do fire and ice any favors (Altough I vastly prefer it over Shattered Crystals, but the rest of the world keeps forgetting it exists) Didn't do Forces or Team Racing any favors. It did the Sonic movie some favors tough, so there's the one big victory for Team Delay.

That said, yeah, delaying the game until it's finished is generally a good idea, but at this point I don't really care.
I have zero faith in Sonic Team's general direction and attitude toward the series. I don't care how well polished and perfected it is if the game at it's core was rotten to begin with.

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Wait a minute, didn't they say they had "multiple games" for 2021? In the press image from a couple of months back, either they are still coming next year or, they could also release 1 in 2021 and 1 in 2022? Wouldn't that be even better?

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