SEGA 60th- Sonic week (December 2-9, 2020)

[Wraith]

Yeah my hopes are shot for this week lol. Oh well. I like hearing from Nagoshi this week

[Johnster4]

I was honestly expecting Nagoshi to appear during RGG studio week for the finale for next week, I guess this raises the question of why couldn't they get an interview with a member of Sonic Team?

[SBR2]

Yeah three days in and not much has happened. I'm man enough to admit I was wrong. Just felt like there'd be anything during this. Granted there are 4 more days but IDK.

[Ryusuke]

Honestly, guys, if there IS new Sonic news, it'll be in the last day, or at the Game Awards. But I'm not expecting anything either.

[Scritch the Cat]

16 hours ago, VisionaryofSUPER said:

I'm not super cynical on Sonic, but I just would like something new to engage with other than the deep past, or at least feel like something is moving. 

Even something like Tangle and Whisper being added to Sonic Dash was exciting because it added a sense of the series moving. It was just a new development.

All this waiting while the last main game was Forces is just agonizing, because Forces was so much of nothing, and Mania Plus and TSR were not enough to fill the gaping hole of that game. 

I agree.  Sonic’s moved more than a billion games?  That’s nice, but it’s no secret to anyone here that this series has had successes in the past.  So why is so much of SEGA’s talk about this series—even before the pandemic—just reminding us of that obvious fact?  Honestly, the more of such callbacks we get, in the form of what seems like everything BUT ambitious new games, the more it seems like SEGA would rather sit pretty on a retirement fund than keep the series moving.  I know that’s inaccurate, but maybe more in degree than principle.    What few games we’ve gotten lately are fairly thin and underwhelming; serving to remind us that Sonic exists but that in turn reminds us that it has been much better.  To be fair, it’s also been much WORSE, but at least when they made their infamous glitchy stinkers, we had plenty to talk about and some good laughs.  The community endured.  Now it’s quiet and slow.

[LeviTheGreat]

You probably were pumped when you heard about Sonics 60th anniversary but what if we are disappointed again and how can Sega fix their fractured rep read on to find out.Well the first thing Sega can do and stop and slow down(unlike sonic) and figure things out.We see the results of their failure for example Sonic Forces so easy a preschooler could beat it in a week.Sonic 06 so glitchy it's on the list for the worst video games of all time.Sega hear me when i say thing i hope you took your time.2.Stop trying to mix dark with light,stick to one narrative with each game and if it is dark don't make it corny.Unleashed is a great example of a good balance between Light and Dark(not shadow the hedgehog).Don't get me wrong i love shadow as a character i even went as far to say he should have a smash fighter(debated)but give him a broader story.3.Stop trying to make something that appeals to western audiences we saw from Sonic Boom what you see America is and we don't need a repeat.4.Give other characters a game,With Sega's huge cast of characters.Surely you can give one of them a solo on their game and make it GOOD.5.Don't think for a second that we are gonna accept the same sonic repeat(Im talking to you Sonic Mania)It was basically a remastered Sonic The Hedgehog One with a flashy title a couple new stages and dlc,we don't want your stinking dlc we want a new story that's not some recycled garbage from the orginal.So why am i calling Sega out on their history.I'm doing this to reignite the underdog spirit of Sega the company that said Sega does what Nintendo don't.All of you know what Sega is capable of and it's definitely more than this right now.Idea on how Sega can be changed for the better write it in the comments below-LeviTheGreat

Just now, LeviTheGreat said:

You probably were pumped when you heard about Sonics 60th anniversary but what if we are disappointed again and how can Sega fix their fractured rep read on to find out.Well the first thing Sega can do and stop and slow down(unlike sonic) and figure things out.We see the results of their failure for example Sonic Forces so easy a preschooler could beat it in a week.Sonic 06 so glitchy it's on the list for the worst video games of all time.Sega hear me when i say thing i hope you took your time.2.Stop trying to mix dark with light,stick to one narrative with each game and if it is dark don't make it corny.Unleashed is a great example of a good balance between Light and Dark(not shadow the hedgehog).Don't get me wrong i love shadow as a character i even went as far to say he should have a smash fighter(debated)but give him a broader story.3.Stop trying to make something that appeals to western audiences we saw from Sonic Boom what you see America is and we don't need a repeat.4.Give other characters a game,With Sega's huge cast of characters.Surely you can give one of them a solo on their game and make it GOOD.5.Don't think for a second that we are gonna accept the same sonic repeat(Im talking to you Sonic Mania)It was basically a remastered Sonic The Hedgehog One with a flashy title a couple new stages and dlc,we don't want your stinking dlc we want a new story that's not some recycled garbage from the orginal.So why am i calling Sega out on their history.I'm doing this to reignite the underdog spirit of Sega the company that said Sega does what Nintendo don't.All of you know what Sega is capable of and it's definitely more than this right now.Idea on how Sega can be changed for the better write it in the comments below-LeviTheGreat

 

[LeviTheGreat]

yeah true

[Scritch the Cat]

1 hour ago, LeviTheGreat said:

You probably were pumped when you heard about Sonics 60th anniversary but what if we are disappointed again and how can Sega fix their fractured rep read on to find out.Well the first thing Sega can do and stop and slow down(unlike sonic) and figure things out.We see the results of their failure for example Sonic Forces so easy a preschooler could beat it in a week.Sonic 06 so glitchy it's on the list for the worst video games of all time.Sega hear me when i say thing i hope you took your time.2.Stop trying to mix dark with light,stick to one narrative with each game and if it is dark don't make it corny.Unleashed is a great example of a good balance between Light and Dark(not shadow the hedgehog).Don't get me wrong i love shadow as a character i even went as far to say he should have a smash fighter(debated)but give him a broader story.3.Stop trying to make something that appeals to western audiences we saw from Sonic Boom what you see America is and we don't need a repeat.4.Give other characters a game,With Sega's huge cast of characters.Surely you can give one of them a solo on their game and make it GOOD.5.Don't think for a second that we are gonna accept the same sonic repeat(Im talking to you Sonic Mania)It was basically a remastered Sonic The Hedgehog One with a flashy title a couple new stages and dlc,we don't want your stinking dlc we want a new story that's not some recycled garbage from the orginal.So why am i calling Sega out on their history.I'm doing this to reignite the underdog spirit of Sega the company that said Sega does what Nintendo don't.All of you know what Sega is capable of and it's definitely more than this right now.Idea on how Sega can be changed for the better write it in the comments below-LeviTheGreat

 

I vehemently disagree regarding Western audiences.  Sonic was originally conceived to appeal to them, is vastly more successful in the west, and Boom’s flaws had nothing to do with its trying to appeal more to western audiences.  I am ready to believe that developing Sonic games stateside, possibly with American workers, could improve things.  With SoA downsizing, Iizuka wouldn’t have come over to develop Sonic here if he didn’t see big potential in spite of all that.

That said, I’m not sure what appealing to western audiences would mean in terms of the series’ direction; mostly because I don’t really pay much attention to what’s currently hip.  But if SEGA’s sticking to stroking nostalgia as a big part of maintaining enthusiasm, then the Anglosphere is the best place to stroke it.

[Johnster4]

2 hours ago, LeviTheGreat said:

You probably were pumped when you heard about Sonics 60th anniversary but what if we are disappointed again and how can Sega fix their fractured rep read on to find out.Well the first thing Sega can do and stop and slow down(unlike sonic) and figure things out.We see the results of their failure for example Sonic Forces so easy a preschooler could beat it in a week.Sonic 06 so glitchy it's on the list for the worst video games of all time.Sega hear me when i say thing i hope you took your time.2.Stop trying to mix dark with light,stick to one narrative with each game and if it is dark don't make it corny.Unleashed is a great example of a good balance between Light and Dark(not shadow the hedgehog).Don't get me wrong i love shadow as a character i even went as far to say he should have a smash fighter(debated)but give him a broader story.3.Stop trying to make something that appeals to western audiences we saw from Sonic Boom what you see America is and we don't need a repeat.4.Give other characters a game,With Sega's huge cast of characters.Surely you can give one of them a solo on their game and make it GOOD.5.Don't think for a second that we are gonna accept the same sonic repeat(Im talking to you Sonic Mania)It was basically a remastered Sonic The Hedgehog One with a flashy title a couple new stages and dlc,we don't want your stinking dlc we want a new story that's not some recycled garbage from the orginal.So why am i calling Sega out on their history.I'm doing this to reignite the underdog spirit of Sega the company that said Sega does what Nintendo don't.All of you know what Sega is capable of and it's definitely more than this right now.Idea on how Sega can be changed for the better write it in the comments below-LeviTheGreat

 

1.  I agree that SEGA and Sonic Team need time to figure out Sonic games and I'm sure they have thought of somethings since the next game has been in development since the end of 2018.
2.  I'm not understanding this point you say they shouldn't mix light and dark elements of a story of a Sonic games but then go on to say Sonic Unleashed is a good example of this? It really some's down to having a good writer who understands Sonic which Pantac and Graff after 10 year still don't get the characters at all,  either get Ian Flynn or bring back Shiro Maekawa to writer better stories.
3. Appealing to Western Audiences Isn't the issue I think Sonic Team have been constantly appealing to casuals & Nintendo fans for over a decade starting with Colours and never appealing to long time Sonic fans since then.
4. I can support Other characters having their own games even without Sonic involved in them.
5. That is an issue I can understand reusing old content in recent Sonic game I'm hoping if they can work with Christian Whitehead again we can get a Sonic 5 with brand new stages throughout the entire game.

[Scritch the Cat]

You know, I think that at this point it’s a waste of time and energy to worry about what “tone” the series has.  So long as we don’t get another embarrassingly dark game like ShTH or another boringly serious one like 06—and we probably won’t—it’s far down my list of important issues.  SEGA needs to renew this series on a gameplay level.  I don’t demand it to be one thing or the other, though I have my preferences, but they need to do something new, or barring that, something old that people loved and that hasn’t been done for a long time, the new/old thing they do has to be big, and it needs to be refined to the point that even if it’s not everyone’s preference, it’s objectively good.

I know that’s all so vague that it barely works at all as a bit of advice, but I doubt they’re reading this anyway.  The point is, more of the same thing we’ve more-or-less had since Generations won’t cut it for me. Unless it’s a LOT more, maybe.  But SEGA botched both Classic and a Modern Sonic in Forces, so I doubt it.

[Wraith]

Almost every Sonic game's problems come down to poor management. Moving development across the pond didn't help with that in the past and it probably won't help now, either. 

[Scritch the Cat]

1 hour ago, Wraith said:

Almost every Sonic game's problems come down to poor management. Moving development across the pond didn't help with that in the past and it probably won't help now, either. 

It did in the case of Sonic Mania.  There are many, many more cases of enthusiastic Sonic fans working well on the series outside the game front. Aaron Weber, Ian Flynn, Tyson Hesse, Ian Jones Quartey, Jennifer Hernandez, probably more.  Not that many enthusiastic Japanese figures I can think of related to this series.  Granted, part of that is I’m not in Japan and don’t understand the language too well, but it’s no secret that Sonic isn’t nearly as popular in Japan.  Yuji Naka and Naoto Oshima are still big boosters of the series, but they’re occupied elsewhere.  Again, SEGA disbanded Sonic Team and Takeshi Iizuka went to America to form a new team.  I won’t promise anyone that will lead to something good, but it’s at least enough to make an educated guess on the state of American enthusiasm for Sonic vs Japanese enthusiasm.

And enthusiasm is important.  Rely on people who are just working on a project to make some quick money, and a lot can go wrong.  Employ people who also have a personal investment in a project succeeding, and you’ll get a special kind of work ethic.  That’s not a substitute for technical proficiency, but plenty of people have both.

[Pengi]

7 hours ago, Scritch the Cat said:

It did in the case of Sonic Mania.  There are many, many more cases of enthusiastic Sonic fans working well on the series outside the game front. Aaron Weber, Ian Flynn, Tyson Hesse, Ian Jones Quartey, Jennifer Hernandez, probably more.  Not that many enthusiastic Japanese figures I can think of related to this series.  Granted, part of that is I’m not in Japan and don’t understand the language too well, but it’s no secret that Sonic isn’t nearly as popular in Japan.  Yuji Naka and Naoto Oshima are still big boosters of the series, but they’re occupied elsewhere.  Again, SEGA disbanded Sonic Team and Takeshi Iizuka went to America to form a new team.  I won’t promise anyone that will lead to something good, but it’s at least enough to make an educated guess on the state of American enthusiasm for Sonic vs Japanese enthusiasm.

And enthusiasm is important.  Rely on people who are just working on a project to make some quick money, and a lot can go wrong.  Employ people who also have a personal investment in a project succeeding, and you’ll get a special kind of work ethic.  That’s not a substitute for technical proficiency, but plenty of people have both.

This is ignorant. In the video game industry, everyone works long hours. In Japanese business, everyone works long hours. In the Japanese video game industry, everyone works long hours. Unhealthily long hours. 

People who can code would make more money doing practically anything else with their skills. Artists would make more money in advertisement. People get into the video game business because they have a passion for it, not to get rich, and certainly not to get rich quickly.

Work ethic isn't the issue. If a game turns out bad, that doesn't mean people didn't work hard on it. That's just insulting and shows a complete misunderstanding of what goes into making a video game.

[Scritch the Cat]

1 hour ago, Pengi said:

This is ignorant. In the video game industry, everyone works long hours. In Japanese business, everyone works long hours. In the Japanese video game industry, everyone works long hours. Unhealthily long hours. 

People who can code would make more money doing practically anything else with their skills. Artists would make more money in advertisement. People get into the video game business because they have a passion for it, not to get rich, and certainly not to get rich quickly.

Work ethic isn't the issue. If a game turns out bad, that doesn't mean people didn't work hard on it. That's just insulting and shows a complete misunderstanding of what goes into making a video game.

Well then, what’s your explanation for SEGA closing its Japanese Sonic division and shifting Sonic’s production to America?  Also promoting Aaron Weber to head a Japanese branch of the company?  I think there’s a there, there, even if I can’t be certain what it is.  Besides, it’s not like I was ever intending to portray this as a miracle cure for all of the series’ problems; merely to debunk the claim that looking to western markets was outright BAD for Sonic.

[Red Hot Jack]

I believe that yeah, there is a connection. It's not like "Japanese people are not capable of working on Sonic games", more like, they are disconnected from the Sonic community, so they are just not aware of what we want.

If a game is good or not though, that depends on their talent, but also by how much they understand previous games, if the game has nostalgic elements.

I'm not saying "only expert fans should work on Sonic"... No, but there should be some kind of connection and feedback with the fans. Otherwise they will not understand why some games aren't well received.

I also personally like it when the dev comes in contact with fans on social networks.

[Scritch the Cat]

1 hour ago, Jack out of the comics! said:

I believe that yeah, there is a connection. It's not like "Japanese people are not capable of working on Sonic games", more like, they are disconnected from the Sonic community, so they are just not aware of what we want.

If a game is good or not though, that depends on their talent, but also by how much they understand previous games, if the game has nostalgic elements.

I'm not saying "only expert fans should work on Sonic"... No, but there should be some kind of connection and feedback with the fans. Otherwise they will not understand why some games aren't well received.

I also personally like it when the dev comes in contact with fans on social networks.

To be fair, the biggest problem with SEGA remains its willingness to jerk around projects and rush them out blatantly unfinished.  That doesn’t mean that every Sonic game has been unfinished garbage like 06 or RoL, but it seems like it’s what scares them away from doing ambitious projects out of fear that they’ll turn out like that.  I think a very important lesson to learn is that ideas alone don’t make good games.  Effort, and the time needed to exert it, makes good games.  What separates Sonic Mania from Sonic 4: Episode I certainly isn’t any major difference in stated goal or source of appeal.  It’s that they took the time to make Sonic Mania function correctly and give it more content.

I think that’s what 3D Sonic needs.  Not in that it needs to be Sonic Mania but in 3D, but in that it needs to be well-done, finished, and full.

 

[Tracker_TD]

1 hour ago, Scritch the Cat said:

Well then, what’s your explanation for SEGA closing its Japanese Sonic division and shifting Sonic’s production to America? 

This is largely a myth. Sonic Team hasn’t been closed, just restructured to be contained within the same division as some other SEGA studios. In all honesty it’s likely that the bulk of the next Sonic’s game development is being done in Japan, because I don’t think it’s been established that many actual developers have made the move to America. 

[Scritch the Cat]

1 hour ago, Tracker_TD said:

This is largely a myth. Sonic Team hasn’t been closed, just restructured to be contained within the same division as some other SEGA studios. In all honesty it’s likely that the bulk of the next Sonic’s game development is being done in Japan, because I don’t think it’s been established that many actual developers have made the move to America. 

It would be nice to know who or where, since we barely have any tangible evidence that development is happening at all.  It’s safe to say that if they provided an insight look into whom they’ve got, with interviews, etc, fans would eat it up even if they didn’t show anything about the actual game—to a point that is.  After too much talk with no game to show, people would start to doubt their abilities.  But after a restructuring and pandemic, it would make fans more optimistic to see that they’re even operating again.

[Tracker_TD]

1 hour ago, Scritch the Cat said:

It would be nice to know who or where, since we barely have any tangible evidence that development is happening at all.  It’s safe to say that if they provided an insight look into whom they’ve got, with interviews, etc, fans would eat it up even if they didn’t show anything about the actual game—to a point that is.  After too much talk with no game to show, people would start to doubt their abilities.  But after a restructuring and pandemic, it would make fans more optimistic to see that they’re even operating again.

It doesn't exactly take a genius, or 'tangible evidence', to work out there's a new Sonic game being made. All this reads as is a very flowery way of saying "I just want to see the new Sonic game" than some kind of legitimate concern. 

If the game is revealed and it looks like ass, then I'll 'doubt their abilities' or whatever, I'm not doubting their abilities just because they haven't shown the thing I'm supposed to doubt their ability about. Not that I'm saying you must have confidence in them after previous showings, but still. 

[Scritch the Cat]

1 hour ago, Tracker_TD said:

It doesn't exactly take a genius, or 'tangible evidence', to work out there's a new Sonic game being made. All this reads as is a very flowery way of saying "I just want to see the new Sonic game" than some kind of legitimate concern. 

If the game is revealed and it looks like ass, then I'll 'doubt their abilities' or whatever, I'm not doubting their abilities just because they haven't shown the thing I'm supposed to doubt their ability about. Not that I'm saying you must have confidence in them after previous showings, but still. 

Their ability to do things is a concern for me, but a far bigger one is whether they will or not.  By that I don’t mean, prove they can make a game—of that I have no doubt—but whether they care to make it good.

[Wraith]

16 hours ago, Scritch the Cat said:

It would be nice to know who or where, since we barely have any tangible evidence that development is happening at all.  It’s safe to say that if they provided an insight look into whom they’ve got, with interviews, etc, fans would eat it up even if they didn’t show anything about the actual game—to a point that is.  After too much talk with no game to show, people would start to doubt their abilities.  But after a restructuring and pandemic, it would make fans more optimistic to see that they’re even operating again.

 

Iizuka said that a new game started development at the beginning of last year. 

[SBR2]

I'm very confused about the priorities honestly. I thought people were asking Sega to take their time and not just crap out a game and now that they're doing that it's all "Where's the new game? Show us the new Game? Why won't you show off the new game? Sonic is dead!"

[Scritch the Cat]

3 hours ago, SBR2 said:

I'm very confused about the priorities honestly. I thought people were asking Sega to take their time and not just crap out a game and now that they're doing that it's all "Where's the new game? Show us the new Game? Why won't you show off the new game? Sonic is dead!"

Nobody wants another game rushed out unfinished like 06, or even finished but with sparse content like TSR.  They just want to see the work in progress.

4 hours ago, Wraith said:

 

Iizuka said that a new game started development at the beginning of last year. 

Then they should have something to show by now.  Not a finished game, but a video of the work in progress game.  I’d even take a video of people working on the game.  Concept sketches are also a possibility.

[Kuzu]

1 hour ago, Scritch the Cat said:

Nobody wants another game rushed out unfinished like 06, or even finished but with sparse content like TSR.  They just want to see the work in progress.

Then they should have something to show by now.  Not a finished game, but a video of the work in progress game.  I’d even take a video of people working on the game.  Concept sketches are also a possibility.

>They can't rush the game. 

>but they also need to show something right now. 

 

 

You know, I get some of you guys are impatient and filled with anxiety, but like...chill out?

[Scritch the Cat]

1 hour ago, Kuzu said:

>They can't rush the game. 

>but they also need to show something right now. 

 

 

You know, I get some of you guys are impatient and filled with anxiety, but like...chill out?

You clearly don’t understand me, or many other people.  When people say “don’t rush the game”, they mean “don’t set a deadline to get it released and then sell it to people blatantly unfinished“, as was the case with 06.  But none of that rules out releasing photos, videos, and/or info about what they’re working on, or even planning to work on.  Those are free, so there’s no shame in doing that, even if the game is nowhere near ready to release.