SEGA 60th- Sonic week (December 2-9, 2020)

[Kuzu]

2 minutes ago, Scritch the Cat said:

You clearly don’t understand me, or many other people.  When people say “don’t rush the game”, they mean “don’t set a deadline to get it released and then sell it to people blatantly unfinished“, as was the case with 06.  But none of that rules out releasing photos, videos, and/or info about what they’re working on, or even planning to work on.  Those are free, so there’s no shame in doing that, even if the game is nowhere near ready to release.

So what if...they just don't have anything to show?

[Kazhnuz]

Well, tbh the only things that makes this situation special is the lack of other Sonic games and that Sonic Forces was announced especially early for a Sonic, but most of the time a Sonic game is announced approximately 6 month before the release (often in spring for the next winter).

And to be frank, I'm not sure that it would really be interesting for them to release stuff earlier than they have planned. It wouldn't really appease the fear of the fanbases (as it wouldn't really prove anything about the quality of the game, and that people would see in that what they would want to see), would launch all the Sonictuber in a bunch of speculation to be disappointed because they weren't right, and most of the "hyping" stuff would be mostly used for the *real* marketing campaign. Some video, some artwork or whatever won't show the "passion" or how much good the game is.

( And to be frank, I'm not certain that "some fans are impatient to have news" is that much of an insensitive to deviate from whatever marketing plan they have. It's not just a team that create their stuff and that can simply post stuff on the social network, there is a marketing team behind communication, the Sonic Pillar and other to be coordinated. )

I'm not saying that people doesn't have the "right" to be impatient (that's just an emotion), it's just that being impatient and shooting how much we want news won't really give to anybody anything nice.

[Scritch the Cat]

2 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

So what if...they just don't have anything to show?

One, that is dodging my previous point, which was that it’s absurd to compare releasing a game unfinished and charging money for it, to sharing insight into what’s in the works, for free.  You were accusing people of holding a double-standard that they don’t have, because the requests aren’t equivalent at all.  Even if they don’t have anything to show, it’s fallacious to claim we’re sending mixed messages by wishing they would.

Two, If the game was started at the beginning of last year, they should have something to show by now.  Not something complete, maybe not even something good, but something.  Things would be different if they had started directly before the pandemic hit; then a delay would be understandable.  But with a year to work on things before then, they should have something.  If nothing else, they would have to have a plan they’re following if they started working on the game, and they could share that.

[Kuzu]

17 minutes ago, Scritch the Cat said:

One, that is dodging my previous point, which was that it’s absurd to compare releasing a game unfinished and charging money for it, to sharing insight into what’s in the works, for free.  You were accusing people of holding a double-standard that they don’t have, because the requests aren’t equivalent at all.  Even if they don’t have anything to show, it’s fallacious to claim we’re sending mixed messages by wishing they would.

Two, If the game was started at the beginning of last year, they should have something to show by now.  Not something complete, maybe not even something good, but something.  Things would be different if they had started directly before the pandemic hit; then a delay would be understandable.  But with a year to work on things before then, they should have something.  If nothing else, they would have to have a plan they’re following if they started working on the game, and they could share that.

They COULD share it, but they don't HAVE to share it. 

I'm pointing out how entitled some of the fanbase is acting in this situation, how everyone seems to be DEMANDING they show something just because you guys are too impatient and filled with anxiety to just...wait. The game will be revealed when it's revealed, and getting impatient and demanding they show something right now isn't going to make it come any faster. 

[VO.SUPER]

I mean, if they have nothing to show, they have nothing. While I may be complaining about less than nothing, if all we had was a cinematic trailer like Forces again, that'd be a bad move. 

The problem between Sega doing this is just that they really haven't given us much reason to trust this will work out for the best. 

I suppose it is the right move, and the least infuriating in the long run, but damn does it sting. 

Still, better than a logo, or a cinematic trailer. The first thing we need is either an announcment announcement, or a full trailer with gameplay.  

[Pengi]

On 12/5/2020 at 5:39 PM, Scritch the Cat said:

Well then, what’s your explanation for SEGA closing its Japanese Sonic division and shifting Sonic’s production to America?  Also promoting Aaron Weber to head a Japanese branch of the company?  I think there’s a there, there, even if I can’t be certain what it is.  Besides, it’s not like I was ever intending to portray this as a miracle cure for all of the series’ problems; merely to debunk the claim that looking to western markets was outright BAD for Sonic.

 

You said that work ethic is the issue with the Japanese staff. The Japanese video game industry is one where staff often end up working 10+ hours a day, 7 days a week and sleeping in the office overnight during busy periods. 

It's ignorant and it's insulting. You know nothing of their work ethic.

[azoo]

I find it silly that we've waited what seems to be nine months after what was going to be some notion of where we're going from here, but it's best to stop questioning it so much and just be patient waiting for the news. I mean, it's not like we have much choice on that anyways, do we?

[Sega DogTagz]

There is nothing Sega could show us within reason that would foster anything but more negativity and animosity within the fanbase. Why bring that on yourself? Why Shoot yourself in the foot before the race even starts.

 

Let it be. We don't even know if Sonic Team's effort is slated for a Q2 or a Q4 release. If it is slated for November 2021, then they don't owe us a thing. If they are aiming for summer, lets get through January before we start getting antsy.

[Scritch the Cat]

30 minutes ago, VisionaryofSUPER said:

I mean, if they have nothing to show, they have nothing. While I may be complaining about less than nothing, if all we had was a cinematic trailer like Forces again, that'd be a bad move. 

The problem between Sega doing this is just that they really haven't given us much reason to trust this will work out for the best. 

I suppose it is the right move, and the least infuriating in the long run, but damn does it sting. 

Still, better than a logo, or a cinematic trailer. The first thing we need is either an announcment announcement, or a full trailer with gameplay.  

I’d be okay with a cinematic trailer.  I can’t say I was very enticed by the first Sonic Forces trailer, but it didn’t repulse me either, and lots of people got talking when they thought Bubsy was in the game.

27 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

There is nothing Sega could show us within reason that would foster anything but more negativity and animosity within the fanbase. Why bring that on yourself? Why Shoot yourself in the foot before the race even starts.

 

Let it be. We don't even know if Sonic Team's effort is slated for a Q2 or a Q4 release. If it is slated for November 2021, then they don't owe us a thing. If they are aiming for summer, lets get through January before we start getting antsy.

SEGA owes us nothing either way, but the reverse is also true.  I do not owe them my money and I sure don’t owe them blind faith while I wait.  So regarding your first point, it may very well be true, but if so that says less about the game’s current level of completion than its concept.  There are quite a lot of concepts that would get me excited for a game, even without a lick of the game actually displayed.  An intention to have Tails and Knuckles playable in a main title would get my approval, for example, even though awful execution ruined that the last few times.

[Sega DogTagz]

11 minutes ago, Scritch the Cat said:

SEGA owes us nothing either way, but the reverse is also true.  I do not owe them my money and I sure don’t owe them blind faith while I wait.

The reverse is not true because no one is asking you for your blind faith. No one is asking you for your money right now. Shoot, no one is even asking you to budget your future money, because we don't even have a target release date.

You say that like Sega is asking you to drop down cash on a pre-order before seeing anything of the product. They are not.

 

When the time comes to ask for any of those things, they will have shown something of the game, and then your faith will no longer be blind. It'll either be earned, hopeful or non-existent based on what you can actually see in front of you.

 

11 minutes ago, Scritch the Cat said:

 So regarding your first point, it may very well be true, but if so that says less about the game’s current level of completion than its concept.  There are quite a lot of concepts that would get me excited for a game, even without a lick of the game actually displayed.  An intention to have Tails and Knuckles playable in a main title would get my approval, for example, even though awful execution ruined that the last few times.

But thats just it. Even in your Tails/Knux suggestion you've planted the seeds of discontent. The second they show even the intent of another playable character, the first thing anyone is going to bring up is the failed execution of past attempts.

Even bringing on an idea like that, will foster pessimism until the time comes that Sega is able to back up that concept with a gameplay deep-dive to show they are moving in the right direction. Why should they open themselves up to that? Why not hold off until you've got a package that speaks for itself as opposed to little snippits that will assuredly get nitpicked into oblivion and breed discontent?

[Scritch the Cat]

18 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

The reverse is not true because no one is asking you for your blind faith. No one is asking you for your money right now. Shoot, no one is even asking you to budget your future money, because we don't even have a target release date.

You say that like Sega is asking you to drop down cash on a pre-order before seeing anything of the product. They are not.

 

When the time comes to ask for any of those things, they will have shown something of the game, and then your faith will no longer be blind. It'll either be earned, hopeful or non-existent based on what you can actually see in front of you.

 

But thats just it. Even in your Tails/Knux suggestion you've planted the seeds of discontent. The second they show even the intent of another playable character, the first thing anyone is going to bring up is the failed execution of past attempts.

Even bringing on an idea like that, will foster pessimism until the time comes that Sega is able to back up that concept with a gameplay deep-dive to show they are moving in the right direction. Why should they open themselves up to that? Why not hold off until you've got a package that speaks for itself as opposed to little snippits that will assuredly get nitpicked into oblivion and breed discontent?

I’ll point out here that scrutiny isn’t necessarily a bad thing.  Even if the attention a game gets starts out bad, things can turn around; as witness the Sonic movie.  Fans tore apart the first trailer and Sonic design, but after the redesign and second trailer they were lining up to see it and many of them liked it.  SEGA committing itself to returning Tails and Knuckles to playable form would certainly invite suspicion for the reasons you suggest, but if that suspicion motivates them to ensure it works this time, good.  It would also give SEGA a rather clear path to pleasing the fans.

Note also, though, that I named just one example of what would win my support.  I’d be cautiously optimistic at best, but at least the wait wouldn’t be boring.

[Sega DogTagz]

34 minutes ago, Scritch the Cat said:

but if that suspicion motivates them to ensure it works this time, good.

Our collective suspicions over Sonic Teams inability to execute on a concept will have nothing to do with if they are indeed able to do so.

If that were the case, we wouldn't be in this mess right now. This fanbase has not been short on pessimism. We've been singing this tune for almost 2 decades now.

 

 

 

 

Sega's gonna mess around and show Classic Sonic and half the fanbase is gonna rage-quit. lol.

 

 

 

 

[Scritch the Cat]

If the fanbase has pled something for almost two decades, there’s probably something to their plea; also you’re not necessarily right about Classic Sonic.  I like Classic Sonic better than Modern Sonic at the moment, as his gameplay has more potential for variety; many fans agree.  SEGA’s ability/willingness to make good physics makes a big difference in how Classic works out, but conceptually the concept can still be taken higher—I’m not sure the boost can, even with perfect technical execution.  And if continued success with Classic Sonic will help convince SEGA that boost is a dead-end, good.

[Coz483]

I honestly just want us to get news in Jan-Mar of 2021 and the game to release in June. It's pretty annoying that Sonic and Mario haven't had a mainline game since 2017. I really hope we get a trailer first then every week we get teasers on things in the game. We really deserve this after having to wait 4 MORE years.

[Red Hot Jack]

We didn't wait 4 years, only for main games.

That's the thing, I'm noticing people only have interest for Sonic when it's their Modern or Classic main title. So people assume we are in a drought now.

As someone else said, we aren't, there is enough content right now, new updates on Forces, Olympics mobile, IDW, we had the movie this year, merch, the soundtrack.

There is stuff, but people only want the main course.

[azoo]

I can understand people having no interest in the mobile games because they are.. well, mobile games. You’re right if you bring up TSR, but asking people to care about Speed Battle is a bit stretching it.

Spoiler

Also the Sonic movie was hot garbo and doesn’t at all scratch the itch of being a Sonic thing so nah lmao.

Anyways yeah hold your horses everyone.

[Scritch the Cat]

So...three days without an update in what is supposed to be a week dedicated to Sonic.  I was ready to believe they only meant the work week, but now it’s Monday.  Again, these sorts of embarrassing showings wouldn’t be an issue if they never acted as if they intended to show much.  Also, this event might be more about the past than the future, but even by those standards, it’s been a quite paltry homage to Sonic’s past.  This Sonic week has been less enthusiastic than even the official Sonic YouTube videos that happen regularly.  It would be one thing if it was JUST game delays; there are a lot of reasons those can occur, and some relate to making a game better.  But right now it looks as if SEGA barely even cares about Sonic, past or future, game or non-game.

[Tracker_TD]

18 hours ago, Scritch the Cat said:

So...three days without an update in what is supposed to be a week dedicated to Sonic.  I was ready to believe they only meant the work week, but now it’s Monday.  Again, these sorts of embarrassing showings wouldn’t be an issue if they never acted as if they intended to show much.  

They outright said what the weeks would consist of at the start of the event, and this week ultimately wasn't too dissimilar to what the other weeks had. If you expected game news this week, you just played yourself. 

[Coz483]

11 hours ago, Jack out of the comics! said:

We didn't wait 4 years, only for main games.

The main games are the most important though. Playing a racing game or olympic game can only be fun for so long. I think a big reason why people say 4 years (myself included) is because before lost world we would get Sonic games every other year or so, as to now we've had to wait 4 years twice. Another thing about the 4 year thing is that a lot of people were disappointed with Sonic Forces, and apparently half or 3/4ths of the time were spent making the game engine instead of developing the actual game. I don't know if this is %100 true since I've seen some people calling this information false but the other factors are still worth looking into.

[Scritch the Cat]

13 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

They outright said what the weeks would consist of at the start of the event, and this week ultimately was too dissimilar to what the other weeks had. If you expected game news this week, you just played yourself. 

I was grabbing for something and found nothing; not really because there was a huge reason to expect something but because this year had been so horrible in general that I was desperate for good news on any front.

[Red Hot Jack]

I understand... there is no "but", I feel you, even with other hobbies and stuff in my life, I still want more Sonic, 2020 sucks and we were hoping for a new Sonic as fans of the blue blur. Maybe there is a "but", it takes time to develop the game and trying to make it good, that's it. It's the truth. Not that it automatically means it will be good, but chances will increase if they take their time. So we can't do anything but wait for now for what is about Sonic.

[Tracker_TD]

Next interview in a few hours - with the legendary Rieko Kodama (AKA Phoenix Rie!)

[Scritch the Cat]

Now this could be interesting.  It seems she hasn’t worked on a Sonic game since 2, but she might have some neat things to say.

Edit: Well, maybe that was neat for RPG fans.  As for me, I found it one of the worst wastes of time and phone data in recent memory.  Literally the only things she said about Sonic were mentions of having worked on two games; things we could just gather from her Wikipedia article.  And I don’t blame Kodama at all for not naturally placing emphasis on Sonic; it was only a minority of her career and likely isn’t in her favorite genre of games.  But I DO blame that man for not asking questions about Sonic, given what week it was supposed to be.

It would be one thing if SEGA didn’t have any new Sonic-related things to say; there are lots of potential reasons for that, especially during a pandemic.  But when SEGA doesn’t even talk about many OLD Sonic-related things, it feels like they just plain don’t care.