Should the Sonic Movie be included in the games?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

They’d probably rearrange the stories to make them connect better or re-adapt them to a modern audience.

After Two Worlds messed things up, they’d probably take advantage of that to make things more coherent with a new take.

The question at that point would be on the reception. I’ve gone on record on these very forum saying that the movie would, at best, break even at the box office. Hell, I didn’t even think the Movie stood a chance against Birds of Prey you can imagine my shock at being wrong on both accounts.

[Lord-Dreamerz]

49 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

This is the same “I don’t like it, therefore it doesn’t work” sentiment with hardly any thought as to whether it can and this fandom has consistently done this on every topic since 2005, so I’ll call it out as such every time it happens.

Or maybe if I simply like/hate it isn't my point, what I logically think here is that it doesn't work because I believe it isn't a good idea regardless of that fact they "could" do it. Even if the subject was about something i liked such as Sticks. While I wouldn't mind seeing her added into the main canon personally... however it isn't needed, nor would forcing her in there for the mere sake of it make the series better, unless they changed her concept a lot she wouldn't fit in good without it feeling jarring in tone. But no, from what you been saying the movie made money, so lets defend to the death that fact alone is good enough reason to include it's ideas into the main canon.

49 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

I’m sorry, but you don’t get to move the goalposts here—there is no difference to what Marvel did and what we’re talking about, and you know it. So don’t act like you have one on me when anyone can see the obvious here.

The only one moving the goalposts here is you. Your posts cleanly read you wanted at least the majority of Sonic side media to be combined into a single story universe canon. And again none of the big franchises we talked about do that. They still have multiple separate story universes to this day & keep creating new ones, only "sometimes" do they cross over or re-add content between some of those alternate universes... and not actually everything/everybody at once under a single story universe when they do.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

1 hour ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

Or maybe if I simply like/hate it isn't my point, what I logically think here is that it doesn't work because I believe it isn't a good idea regardless of that fact they "could" do it. 

I’m sure many logically thought live action wasn’t a good idea over the movie actually succeeding regardless of the fact that they “could” do it too. Myself included.

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Even if the subject was about something i liked such as Sticks. While I wouldn't mind seeing her added into the main canon personally... however it isn't needed, nor would forcing her in there for the mere sake of it make the series better, unless they changed her concept a lot she wouldn't fit in good without it feeling jarring in tone.

Or so you’d think...

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But no, from what you been saying the movie made money, so lets defend to the death that fact alone is good enough reason to include it's ideas into the main canon.

Actually, what I’m saying is that the movie proved me and everyone else wrong and that its success means somethings initially thought of as bad ideas might actually work when decent effort is put into it.

Funny how that works, huh?

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The only one moving the goalposts here is you. Your posts cleanly read you wanted at least the majority of Sonic side media to be combined into a single story universe canon. And again none of the big franchises we talked about do that. They still have multiple separate story universes to this day & keep creating new ones, only "sometimes" do they cross over or re-add content between some of those alternate universes... and not actually everything/everybody at once under a single story universe when they do.

If you actually read my posts, you wouldn’t come up with this strawman of a conclusion over what I was actually saying or twist my point out of context. Although, you are right that I would like things to be combined in a single story universe canon—haven’t really made that a secret, but that’s not for here.

Regardless, those big franchises still bring multiple characters and settings into single universes, like everyone can see that even if the stories themselves are separate and self contained. It’s part of why they got so big to begin with, characters from their own series joining others in major works that become the franchises they are today. They don’t have to do them all at once—I never said that one bit, and even then that hasn’t stopped them from doing so when they get the chance. Doing that for Sonic by bringing things like the movie into the games isn’t a bad idea in and of itself.

 

[Lord-Dreamerz]

1 hour ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

Actually, what I’m saying is that the movie proved me and everyone else wrong and that its success means somethings initially thought of as bad ideas might actually work when decent effort is put into it.

Oh it proved everybody wrong did it now? What if i told you it turned out fairly close how I expected? Because it actually did. I knew from the start before we even saw the first ugly design the movie was going to be the same old toss away yet passable animal & human buddy movie which we've seen get recycled from Hollywood all the time soon as they said Sonic & a cop friend would travel with each other. Because even if they picked a different movie concept to reuse we all know either way it was going to be something we overall seen 100 times before reskinned, And as boring as those movie concepts are at least a decent portion of them make good money which is why they reuse the ideas to start with. Goodness forbid they risk making a original story idea more often right? It is one reason I rarely watch movies anymore, the bulk of them are basically the same stories i've seen before repeated to hell & back.

However those kinda movies often work enough because folks will watch a movie just to experience a character/franchise they like/know is popular appear on the big screen. I know that was the only reason I watched it, and I heard it was the same for many. The story wasn't really the part that mattered to hardly anybody. And I can promise you it would had made far less money if they had kept their old ugly Movie Sonic design, I especially never would had seen it 2 times myself! Meaning the movie made money "despite" of the movie only concepts, not because of it. Far as we know a fully animated movie without Tom & gang could had sold better. Who knows? there is MANY factors into why a film is a success or flop, hardly ever a single reason.

I don't even hate the movie, but it's ideas were tailored made for it alone which is clear as day. And sure, one could toss few of the ideas into the games like Tom the cop. But that still wouldn't make the separate story canons into one single entity by itself. But if that is enough for fans... then fine sure? Make Tom appear as a minor NPC in a random Sonic game & call it a day... regardless of the fact it would not actually be the exact same Tom from the movie, as he wouldn't be live action along with having a different backstory. Resulting in being a mere cameo/nod to fans instead of being anything meaningful.

[Redemption]

Just now, Lord-Dreamerz said:

Oh it proved everybody wrong did it now? What if i told you it turned out fairly close how I expected? Because it actually did. I knew from the start before we even saw the first ugly design the movie was going to be the same old toss away yet passable animal & human buddy movie which we've seen get recycled from Hollywood all the time soon as they said Sonic & a cop friend would travel with each other.

Let's be honest, no one (and i mean no one) would have predicted this everyone had their own ideas for what the movie could be.

(There were many options for a sonic movie, 4 of which were cancelled (

I'm not dissmissing the crap we got from the first trailer because if these movies came to be the trailers for them would probably be trash too but respectfully put i myself wanted Sony to take it on but they dropped the project. I was pissed at the fact that they had took on Rachet and Clank but no Sonic The Hedgehog. 

7 minutes ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

Far as we know a fully animated movie without Tom & gang could had sold better.

 All do respect, Tom took the place of Chris in my opinion and that made me angry because Sonic X was a great series and i hated that they disrgarded him especially since it was on Earth! 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

55 minutes ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

Oh it proved everybody wrong did it now? What if i told you it turned out fairly close how I expected? Because it actually did.

Well, good for you. It came out the way you predicted.

But to the surprise of everyone else, it didn’t fail. Even better, it and Detective Pikachu has everyone rethinking whether the movie industry can succeed with game adaptations. And as far as Sega, the Movie Industry, and the fans and people who went to enjoy it are concerned, that’s all that really matters. Otherwise, we wouldn’t get a sequel—something I also didn’t think would happen even if the movie succeeded, but I should’ve known better by that point.

Personally, the movie isn’t my preference when it comes to Sonic, but again I’m not going to knock down on its success.

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I don't even hate the movie,

You have done a very poor job showing otherwise to this point.

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but it's ideas were tailored made for it alone which is clear as day. And sure, one could toss few of the ideas into the games like Tom the cop. But that still wouldn't make the separate story canons into one single entity by itself. But if that is enough for fans... then fine sure? Make Tom appear as a minor NPC in a random Sonic game & call it a day... regardless of the fact it would not actually be the exact same Tom from the movie, as he wouldn't be live action along with having a different backstory. Resulting in being a mere cameo/nod to fans instead of being anything meaningful.

Ideas can be remodeled and retool to fit new places, and they don’t have to just be unimportant background props. I don’t know why this is something unheard of, because its not like these characters, props, settings, and plots can’t be used in other settings in this franchise outside the movie. Marvel, DC, and TMNT have also done this.

Not sure why this is hard to grasp beyond the fact you don’t want it getting any decent attention.

[Lord-Dreamerz]

6 minutes ago, Redemption said:

Let's be honest, no one (and i mean no one) would have predicted this everyone had their own ideas for what the movie could be.

Pretty sure I am being honest. I expected a overall basic Hollywood style movie I've seen before get reskinned and wasn't surprised by what we got or by the fact it sold good. The mere idea of seeing the first ever big Sonic movie sounds exciting to many people. Meaning the bar didn't have to be set very high. And I don't expect big film studios to make anything risky for concepts as that isn't their interest 9 times outta 10.

[Mattjohn234]

I think they could make a SONIC MOVIE the video game

just my opinion guys.

[Lord-Dreamerz]

23 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

You have done a very poor job showing otherwise to this point.

Ideas can be remodeled and retool to fit new places, and they don’t have to just be unimportant background props. I don’t know why this is something unheard of, but its not like these characters, props, and plots can’t be used in other settings in this franchise outside the movie. Marvel, DC, and TMNT have also done this.

Not sure why this is hard to grasp beyond the fact you don’t want it getting any decent attention.

Pretty sure I said i watched the movie multiple times, and when it was released I posted at multiple places I enjoy it despite it not being my ideal for a Sonic Movie. Just because somebody enjoys something doesn't mean they think it should be fused or reused in other parts of a related franchise.

And the reason I said that example with Tom is not simply because I think he should be a minor character if appearing in the main line games. I said that because are we seriously excepting SonicTeam to do anything important with him if they did? Again they barely use their current side cast as it is for anything meaningful anymore, and in general seem to suffer not knowing what to do with half their content outside of references & cameos. Why would he get special treatment? Or any other offshoot media character? Unless SonicTeam proves to us they will be changing how they handle their stuff, otherwise I have no reason to believe they would put this other extra stuff to any good use. Wishing for stuff is nice fun, but I prefer to be little realistic when working with whatever subject.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

1 hour ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

Pretty sure I said i watched the movie multiple times, and when it was released I posted at multiple places I enjoy it despite it not being my ideal for a Sonic Movie. Just because somebody enjoys something doesn't mean they think it should be fused or reused in other parts of a related franchise.

Except, during this discussion, you’ve been borderline bashing everything about it over the idea of bringing things like it’s characters and such into the games.

So don’t be surprised if I find it unconvincing that you like the movie.

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And the reason I said that example with Tom is not simply because I think he should be a minor character if appearing in the main line games. I said that because are we seriously excepting SonicTeam to do anything important with him if they did?
 

Hard to really say what Sonic Team would do with Tom if he were brought into the games given how haphazard they’ve been with their own setting. But it could be major OR minor role for all anyone knows if they wanted to make any use of him.

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Again they barely use their current side cast as it is for anything meaningful anymore, and in general seem to suffer not knowing what to do with half their content outside of references & cameos.
 

I chalk that up more to incompetence than not knowing what to do given that even if they had someone give them a clue that they’d bungle it up due to being controlling.

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Why would he get special treatment? Or any other offshoot media character?
 

Don’t know, and I honestly wouldn’t care if the end result was decent enough.

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Unless SonicTeam proves to us they will be changing how they handle their stuff, otherwise I have no reason to believe they would put this other extra stuff to any good use. Wishing for stuff is nice fun, but I prefer to be little realistic when working with whatever subject.

Saying that “nothing important or good to gain” from wanting to tie things together, then dismissing and moving the goalposts on anything that doesn’t align with that thought, is anything but being realistic. I know Sonic Team and Sega have their problems with executing things, but that has more to do with their own efforts shooting them in the foot when others with a better grasp of things can make their very own ideas work better than they think—not dismissing the Movie’s bad first attempt on the first trailer, but more generally speaking with their outside talent working on their series.

[Natie]

No, there's hardly anything of value in that movie to warrant being put into the games. Save for maybe Longclaw, who was based on a bit from the US Sonic bible anyway, but hopefully without the hyper realistic design.

[Lord-Dreamerz]

1 hour ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

So don’t be surprised if I find it unconvincing that you like the movie.

Honestly I don't need to convince you of anything. I know what I like & dislike, if you don't want to believe me that is your own problem.

1 hour ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

Saying that “nothing important or good to gain” from wanting to tie things together, and dismissing and moving the goalposts on anything that doesn’t align with that thought, is anything but being realistic.

Ok I am going to stop you right there. At this point you are just trying to gaslight me because you can't accept anybody not agreeing with you on this subject. The only one here who is moving goalposts & dismissing arguments is you this whole time. I am done here. You are only wasting both our time.

 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

32 minutes ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

Ok I am going to stop you right there. At this point you are just trying to gaslight me because you can't accept anybody not agreeing with you on this subject. The only one here who is moving goalposts & dismissing arguments is you this whole time. I am done here. You are only wasting both our time.

You literally said those exact words on your very first post and I made a counterpoint on there actually being something worth while in tying things together that you dismissed and moved goalposts as I reiterated them. There’s no gaslighting, and you know it, so don’t try to play victim here and have an attitude for being challenged on it.

Have a nice day.

[Rabbitearsblog]

6 hours ago, Natie said:

No, there's hardly anything of value in that movie to warrant being put into the games. Save for maybe Longclaw, who was based on a bit from the US Sonic bible anyway, but hopefully without the hyper realistic design.

I agree.  I don't really see anything in the movie that would improve the games (well, maybe except the inspiration for characterizing the characters a bit better).

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Not even Longclaw?

[VO.SUPER]

The emphasizing of two worlds that the movie describes is really all i'd bring over specifically. It'd be better than the twiddling thumbs we've been dealing with in the main series.   

 

Maybe have Green Hills as a cameo on a sign but thats about it. 

[Domino]

Realistically, I think one of the few ways the movie could influence game elements is it could lead to more inclusions of warp rings.

I don't think I can really call this a movie-specific element since the idea of giant rings as portals originated in the games, but the movie is one of the few places where the portals are explicitly acknowledged as part of the lore. The Sonic Forces: Speed Battle devs even put a mention of them in a promotional poster for Golden Bay Zone.

The hit-shielding rings you collect in levels definitely wouldn't be warp rings, though. They'd have to be separate varieties of ring.

[Rabbitearsblog]

57 minutes ago, VisionaryofSUPER said:

The emphasizing of two worlds that the movie describes is really all i'd bring over specifically. It'd be better than the twiddling thumbs we've been dealing with in the main series.   

 

Maybe have Green Hills as a cameo on a sign but thats about it. 

Yeah, at least in the movies they were clear about the two worlds thing.  In the games however, they just keep dancing a jig around that and it's getting confusing.

[Mauro Fonseca]

10 hours ago, Natie said:

No, there's hardly anything of value in that movie to warrant being put into the games. Save for maybe Longclaw, who was based on a bit from the US Sonic bible anyway, but hopefully without the hyper realistic design.

From the UK Stay Sonic, actually.

1 hour ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

Not even Longclaw?

Definitely not Longclaw. Not every character needs parents, not every character needs an origin, not every character needs to be a sad-eyed woobie who's super cute and we feel sad for. Sonic in particular definitely needs none of those things.

[Domino]

I highly doubt Sonic's movie origins will ever be carried over to the game continuity. It's just one of those things I can't see SEGA approving.

If Longclaw ever makes an appearance in the games, her relation to Sonic would likely have to be different. If they don't have her as his adoptive parental figure, they could lean more on the "tribe of warrior owls who protect the cosmos" angle from the movie novelization. Since she apparently lives on South Island, she and Sonic could easily be acquainted already. It wouldn't feel too out of place for Sonic to drop by to help her out now and then, kind of like he did with the Flickies in 3D Blast.

[Wildcat]

Do I think the movies should be in continuity with the games? No because in the games Sonic and all his friends have known Robotnik since the beginning and have met other humans since they’ve been to earth (whether it’s 2 worlds or not). Would not make any sense.

I think they could include elements from the movies but treat them as a separate version. Longclaw could become part of the games but her character would have to be different. She could still be a warrior but they’d have to portray her as someone they’ve never met before who becomes their friend or ally.

Maybe Tom and Maddie could appear as a nod. I mean like people they talk with in hub world. Humans you happen to interact with during the game.

I would like to see the games use his movie design (blue or tan arms). Give him the furry texture and extra detail. It does not have to be linked to the movie. Just use that model.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

12 hours ago, The KKM said:

From the UK Stay Sonic, actually.

Definitely not Longclaw. Not every character needs parents, not every character needs an origin, not every character needs to be a sad-eyed woobie who's super cute and we feel sad for. Sonic in particular definitely needs none of those things.

I swear, if I had a dollar for every random “Sonic doesn’t need X, Y, and Z” tirade that gets thrown in this fandom...

If I want to know what Sonic doesn’t need, I’ll ask Sega on the idea.

[VO.SUPER]

Actually, I also really like how the movie uses Rings in general and do think it could translate to fun future game mechanics, as well as giving specific lore to these random things just hanging there. 

Yeah, its basically just adopting Portal mechanics, but I feel like that works with Sonic. 

[Natie]

Ring warping was already "sort of" a cannon thing if you wanna go by like, Sonic 1 or Sonic 3&K where Knuckles uses them to check on the Hidden Palace so it's not too off base there. 

10 hours ago, Domino said:

If Longclaw ever makes an appearance in the games, her relation to Sonic would likely have to be different. If they don't have her as his adoptive parental figure, they could lean more on the "tribe of warrior owls who protect the cosmos" angle from the movie novelization. Since she apparently lives on South Island, she and Sonic could easily be acquainted already. It wouldn't feel too out of place for Sonic to drop by to help her out now and then, kind of like he did with the Flickies in 3D Blast.

There's a lot of Owl iconography in S1 and 2 on ancient structures and Tyson said on twitter that they "knew about all that" so maybe Owl Tribes are more cannon than we think. I'm not totally against the idea of an old member of the lost race helping Sonic get on his feet when he was still a baby, but yeah probably not the helpless parental dynamic from the movie.

[Rabbitearsblog]

1 hour ago, VisionaryofSUPER said:

Actually, I also really like how the movie uses Rings in general and do think it could translate to fun future game mechanics, as well as giving specific lore to these random things just hanging there. 

Yeah, its basically just adopting Portal mechanics, but I feel like that works with Sonic. 

I thought that the games already had the concept about Sonic traveling through different worlds through the rings, like how he usually go to a special zone in Sonic 3 and Knuckles by entering a giant ring.