Do you guys ever get tired of people telling you Sonic is garbage

[TalonFarmer]

I have always been so tired of people being surprised that i like sonic at the volume that i do, but its always greeted with the "sonic is so bad" and i understand that there are a few games that are certainly bad. I try not to let it get to me because sonic means alot to me so a couple of people arent going to make me change and i want his games to get better and i KNOW they will get better. The movie's success has certainly helped in his reputation, but does anyone have any situations similar to this?

[Guest]

Meh I get called garbage all the time for any reason. I'm used to it.

[FReaK]

yeah, there are some people who do that. but I honestly don't care, it's their opinion and if they start to annoy me I simply ignore them. Easy as that.

[Blue Blood]

I get tired of the fact that Sonic regularly is garbage. Hearing about it is just part and parcel of being a fan.

Whilst I really don't care for all the articles and videos that open with "Sonic had a pretty rough transition to 3D and has struggled to find his footing ever since" (and all the parodies have worn thin too), they're not exactly wrong either. SEGA has never made a concerted effort dispell those thoughts by releasing consistently good games. The franchise seems to take more missteps than it ever takes steps in the right direction.

However, nobody who's worth paying any attention to or worth discussing Sonic with will only tell you Sonic is garbage. I can see why it would get tiresome if you are consistently hearing that. My best advice to you would be to look elsewhere. You're allowed to like Sonic and don't need to feel bad for it.

6 hours ago, TalonFarmer said:

i want his games to get better and i KNOW they will get better.

We all want Sonic games to get better. We've been wanting that since around the 2000s, so that's up to 20 years depending on who you ask. How do you KNOW they'll get better? Because I've been watching them flounder between alright and awful for the past decade, with the only exception in that time being Mania. 

[Redemption]

8 hours ago, TalonFarmer said:

I have always been so tired of people being surprised that i like sonic at the volume that i do, but its always greeted with the "sonic is so bad" and i understand that there are a few games that are certainly bad. I try not to let it get to me because sonic means alot to me so a couple of people arent going to make me change and i want his games to get better and i KNOW they will get better. The movie's success has certainly helped in his reputation, but does anyone have any situations similar to this?

There have been couple people who dislike Sonic either because their favorite youtuber said so or he's not what's popular. That okay just because you like something different does'nt mean it's any less important. @TalonFarmer these comments from you show me your a passionate Sonic fan who just isn't in the right enviroment of people. Right here is where you meet those fans who love Sonic and embrace the franchise instead of dragging it down. The haters are gonna do their thing because when Sonic does hit success those billonaire haters are gonna want in on the action to. 

2 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

We all want Sonic games to get better. We've been wanting that since around the 2000s, so that's up to 20 years depending on who you ask. How do you KNOW they'll get better? Because I've been watching them flounder between alright and awful for the past decade, with the only exception in that time being Mania. 

He is just trying to be little optimistic. To be honest i do the same thing maybe not in the way he just did but i like to have high hopes too. Hopefully we get a good Sonic tv show, games and an awesome movie sequel with an all star cast. I'm not saying that's gonna happen in fact it's highly unlikely but i am saying that we should look forward to the future and tread lightly toward the future of Sonic and of the franchise.

 

[Rabbitearsblog]

I usually don't let it bother me.  Sure, Sonic had a couple of bad games over the years. But that never outweighed the good games that I enjoyed and I still love Sonic as a character.  Of course, I understand where people who said that "Sonic is Bad" are coming from as most of Sonic's games in recent years haven't been that good, but I think that if they made more good Sonic games, then that opinion might go down a bit over time.

[Fuzzy Pickles!]

22 hours ago, TalonFarmer said:

I have always been so tired of people being surprised that i like sonic at the volume that i do, but its always greeted with the "sonic is so bad" and i understand that there are a few games that are certainly bad. I try not to let it get to me because sonic means alot to me so a couple of people arent going to make me change and i want his games to get better and i KNOW they will get better. The movie's success has certainly helped in his reputation, but does anyone have any situations similar to this?

I come from the Nintendo fandom, but I can relate. Back during the late 2000s when the Wii was all the rage, I saw a lot of criticism regarding the Wii. Needless to say, I got very defensive over the console and it got me in a lot of trouble. I have and will always be a passionate fan of Nintendo's IPs, but I had to adjust my behavior after a year and a half. Notably, Sonic also got a lot of flak and it was cool to hate on Sonic and his fan base.

With that said, this is the Internet. People will use the Internet to dump on anything and everything in existence, especially since that anonymity allows people to express their distaste for something or someone in ways that you could not get away with at a public place like a school or a job. It might be crass, rude, and even insensitive, but it is not the end of the world. Sonic The Hedgehog is a great franchise, but at the end of the day, it is the premiere franchise of a big corporation and it is in no danger of going out of business anytime soon. It's not healthy to put yourself up as part of the Sega Defense Force or to get overly invested in defending the franchise.

So relax. It's okay to disagree with other people regarding Sonic.

[Scritch the Cat]

I don’t get told that, personally.  I don’t talk to people all that much and when I do, it’s either not about Sonic or it’s about Sonic to people I know like Sonic.  

However, I did get my start on forums out of a desire to hit back at critics who were turning against the Adventure series, mysteriously almost immediately after SEGA exited the console business.  I amplified some of my rants when, although the series by then had reached a point almost unanimously deemed bad, I felt the critics and hobbyist haters were totally wrong about why.  Still, after 06 I stopped buying Sonic games for at least a decade.

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

I have mixed feelings about this, because I think a lot of the criticism of the series is sadly deserved, but there's also a lot of it that isn't ("Sonic was never good" and such). So I don't really blame people for thinking the series is bad, but it is annoying when people act like it's altogether trash. At the end of the day, it's something that I guess we have to learn to live with since it's not going to go away any time soon.

[SBR2]

Yeah but it just comes with the territory. Fan. Hater. Everyone fucking hates Sonic.

[___-_]

Well nowadays, whatever I see on the internet (mainly just on YouTube tbh since the only other Sonic centric areas I’ve been to were here and Sonic Retro), I just roll my eyes and move on whenever I see critique on the series since majority of the time, said critique is just coming from a troll.

It’s such an easy tell to spot when you see them start talking about stuff like the Sonic’s marketing tricking them to thinking it could only be played in one specific way and other shit like the ring mechanic in general being trash... yet still complain about the concept of “Trial and Error” being in the games at all as if that’s a inherently flawed way of making any game in general AND act like Sonic games are supposed to function like every other platformer like Mario. Just little things like that I just might leave a comment on, laugh off and move on. Hell, I don’t even comment any more, I just skip to the laughing off part of the process. 
 

Irl, I actually come across people that actually mess with the games, and I mean by a lot. Even by some people I’d never expect to be a fan at all. Some people that I know even like the more questionable games in the series.

But yea, I haven’t really came across anyone who actually knows what this series is all about AND tell me why whatever I like was trash all along for legitimate reasons I can’t deny to make me feel any type of way, let alone those type of people coming in the thousands sharing all those same opinions at me. I’m the same type of guy who loves everything Megaman 8 has to offer despite everyone on the internet seemingly deeming that the worst of the series (other than the music). I literally see that all the time when that game is mentioned lol and I’m completely alone in this situation (I don’t know nearly as much people who like Megaman Irl), and I’ll never understand why that is, but at the end of the day, I just like what I like and wouldn’t let that stuff bother me anyway. 

[Diogenes]

Not nearly as much as I'm tired of it being true. Obviously it's no fun to have something you like get bashed on the regular, but the series has been facing serious problems for a long time now; it's largely earned its reputation. And I feel like a lot of the bashing comes with at least some degree of sympathy; it's not just that Sonic's an easy target, but I think a lot of people, whether they consider themselves fans or not, have some fond memories or lingering respect for the series, and bashing what it's become is a way of venting and commiserating over it. Of course there's always going to be some assholes, but every fanbase has to deal with some assholes.

[Meta77]

If the series was not in such a bad shape than maybe. But i mean the series is pretty bad enough so that all they can do on their social channels is post memes constantly. That is to say you can have fun with yourself sure. And of course do not be like aggressive toxic towards someone. But ive seen some say your not a true fan if you complain about the games and be thankful for them. That is fine and dandy but to Sega that just reads as we can push out literal crap and people will buy it simply cause its sonic. No need to improve on anything. Just slap sonic on the cover, add classic in there. And bam we got a game. Hopefully the recent writer and va shakeup changes things up.

[RadicalLaRuby]

I hate hearing it as well, honestly they can fuck right off.

But as Blue Blood and Diogenes said, what I hate much more is that it's true on so many levels. I've watched the series decay since my early teens. I could never wrap my head around how a company can consistently flop about so hard for 20 years (arguably more if we're talking about Sega's other business related issues).

They'll acknowledge it sometimes, even joke about it. They make promises time and again and yet....here we still are. I know a good game can and will make it's way out of the rubble, but what game and when is always a mystery, further burdened with whether or not they can actually keep a winning streak.

[SBR2]

Can I be honest? This thread is kinda bumming me out. I know I'm in a minority in not thinking Sonic has been a complete garbage fire lately but it honestly kinda feels like you just aren't allowed to think that.

Like if you dare to say you like anything post-Colors you're just asking to be yelled at and told "No all these games are terrible how dare you have a positive opinion on anything? Sonic sucks!"

[Muscles Maximum]

9 hours ago, SBR2 said:

Like if you dare to say you like anything post-Colors you're just asking to be yelled at and told "No all these games are terrible how dare you have a positive opinion on anything? Sonic sucks!"

It's literally been like this since Sonic Adventure. It doesn't matter what part of the series you're into. This has always been something sections of this fandom has had to deal with.

Like what you like, but it's frustrating because a lot of people want this series to change big time. The clown sonic has become since colors is definitely not what most people envision when they think "sonic". It's certainly not the sonic that made me into such a huge fan in the first place. That's not even talking about gameplay. Colors turned sonic into a rigid, blocky platforming mess that it's maintained for what 10 years now? Generations was a step in the right direction in that regard, only for lost world to come immediately after and flop on all fronts. And then they release forces trying to hit the same notes generations did, probably the safest and most surefire bet at pleasing the most people and they end up failing at even that, missing the mark completely and somehow making everything that made generations alright, worse.

The problem is when the games are not up to par but people lap that shit up anyways, it doesn't propagate change. It just gets worse and worse until you get people leaving the fandom entirely. It's how you get shit like sword and shield somehow becoming the best selling pokemon games despite them being the most barebones and mediocre shit gamefreak could've possibly put out. Many nintendo franchises have had complaints of becoming stale, probably peaking during the Wii u era, but they at least have the talent to challenge those complaints and make games with tons of heart like mario odyssey and breath of the wild. Sonic has nothing like that. You could argue that's what sonic mania is. But I think it's telling when the best game a series has is pretending to be 25 years old, and isn't even made by sonic team. Because when sonic team gives it a go you get shit like forces classic sonic.

It's such a low bar they have to hit. Just let sonic roll down hills, have tails or knuckles be playable, don't limit the games to narrow corridors and clumsy blocky 2d segments, and have a tone similar to that of SatBK or SA or Unleashed. I really think if they could check those boxes most people would be happy. But they can't even hit the lowest of the low bars.

Like others before have said, I think this franchise is garbage. And I don't want it to be. At least now there seems to be some sort of change happening behind the scenes. How this will affect the games going forward we have no idea, but I can only hope sega or sonic team or whoever has become aware of the state of the series and how badly it needs to change. Hopefully for the better.

[batson]

To be honest, at this point the only thing regarding the perception of the Sonic franchise that genuinly makes me mad is the recent trend of saying that the Sonic series was never good to begin with. This is incomprehensible to me. I guess maybe it's an effect of the fact that the narrative of "Sonic is crap" is simpler than "Sonic used to be really good, but then became crap". But strangely we don't see this effect with other franchises whose recent installments have been lacking. Take The Simpsons for instance. Everyone agrees that most of the episodes prodiced within the last 20 years are garbage, but this fact hasn't made as much as a dent in the idea that the classic Simpsons seasons were masterpieces. It's quite unfair actually.

[Blue Blood]

13 hours ago, SBR2 said:

Can I be honest? This thread is kinda bumming me out. I know I'm in a minority in not thinking Sonic has been a complete garbage fire lately but it honestly kinda feels like you just aren't allowed to think that.

Like if you dare to say you like anything post-Colors you're just asking to be yelled at and told "No all these games are terrible how dare you have a positive opinion on anything? Sonic sucks!"

Can I also be honest? Get real. Nobody has said that here. Nobody has come close to saying anything along the lines of "the games are bad and you're not allowed to think otherwise". I'm really fed up of hearing this every now and then tbh. 

What has been said however by myself and others is that we're tired of finding some level of truth in the notion that Sonic is garbage. This franchise has been stuck in a rut for the longest time and is barely able to poke its nose out for five minutes before it falls back in. It's objective that almost every Sonic game since 2010 has been met with mixed reception at large and in this community in particular. Generations and Colours were well received, as were Mania and ASRT. But the rest? Not so much. And discussions change over time too.

Go ahead and like Colours, Forces, Lost World, Boom or whatever else as much as you do. And equally, feel free to dislike any of the generally well-received games too. Just to throw it out there, I quite like Colours and live TSR. I don't even dislike the PC/Wii U version of Lost World. But this is what opinions are all about. And of course, the only reason that anyone is posting here is because we care enough about the franchise to put time into discussing it, playing the games and hoping that it will get better. 

This very thread is asking about your experience with liking Sonic when the loudest voices overwhelmingly berate the series. I'll quote my post from just above:

On 2/5/2021 at 10:33 AM, Blue Blood said:

However, nobody who's worth paying any attention to or worth discussing Sonic with will only tell you Sonic is garbage. I can see why it would get tiresome if you are consistently hearing that. My best advice to you would be to look elsewhere. You're allowed to like Sonic and don't need to feel bad for it.

If you entirely disagree with the notion that Sonic is garbage, say so. It's an unpopular opinion so you should rightfully expect some discussion, but own it and please don't act as though you're being told you can't hold that opinion when such is demonstrably not the case here. 

[Rexeljet]

2 hours ago, batson said:

To be honest, at this point the only thing regarding the perception of the Sonic franchise that genuinly makes me mad is the recent trend of saying that the Sonic series was never good to begin with. This is incomprehensible to me. I guess maybe it's an effect of the fact that the narrative of "Sonic is crap" is simpler than "Sonic used to be really good, but then became crap". But strangely we don't see this effect with other franchises whose recent installments have been lacking. Take The Simpsons for instance. Everyone agrees that most of the episodes prodiced within the last 20 years are garbage, but this fact hasn't made as much as a dent in the idea that the classic Simpsons seasons were masterpieces. It's quite unfair actually.

Weirdly I've not actually heard anyone try and make the "Sonic was never good" argument in earnest in the last 4 years or so (at least not since Mania came out), though maybe I'm just living in an echo chamber.

I suppose the difference between Sonic and the Simpsons is that, due to the nature of different game systems and platform exclusives, well over half of people playing video games in the 1990s (when you factor in not just non-Sega consoles but computers as well) probably didn't have a way of playing Sonic games at home. On the other hand, pretty much anyone who had access to a TV in the 90s would be able to watch the Simpsons (even in countries where the show was limited to a paid service, there were still VHS releases).

Heck, I've often heard people (often 90s Nintendo fans) claim that Sega in general were never good, often talking about the Mega Drive/Genesis as if it were some cheapo supermarket own-brand equivalent of the SNES, and claiming it had nothing to offer outside of sports games. But that's a rant for another day. 

WIth this in mind, combined with the fact that the Classic Sonic formula doesn't necessarily click with everyone (as I brought up in an old thread discussing this topic), it perhaps makes a bit of sense that some people make this argument (it's still stupid of course, if only because it operates on the logic of "I don't like it therefore it's bad").

[Kuzu]

The Sonic series is kind of a quagmire. 

Its not complete garbage, but it ain't really good either.

It sits kind in that gray area of mediocrity outside of a select few titles.

 

People shit on it because they want it to better, but nobody has any idea on how to make it "better" and neither does Sega.

[Big-C]

Quite frankly, I’ve gotten so numb to the whole “Sonic bad lol” thing that’s been around for years. A lot of that has to do with a good amount of the scrutiny towards the franchise being well deserved.  Compare that to how I was when I was a kid where the numerous “Sonic must die” articles or the hate Sonic gets in general on the internet would piss me off.

[Speedi]

I would say to just believe what you want and remember to respect other perspectives on media. Really the whole "this popular media is terrible or amazing" topic annoys me from both sides. I absolutely can't stand when people talk about stuff like this in such unnecessary extremes, the whole notion just feels so combative. But I guess people can't help but want their opinions to have an impact even if it does nothing but start fights most of the time.

[Cadence]

People overly hating on sonic is annoying. Epically annoying because those people were catered to for quite some time. And despite quite literally not buying any of the content aimed at them is still at least at the moment kind of catered to. 

That said what annoys more is sega's contentedness with things being bad in regards to sonic if its made quickly with as few people as possible and cheaply. Sonic has been operating on that cheap crunch rush out schedule for years its driven talent away, its resulted in really bad games due to rising budgets and constant scapegoating so that those in charge don't need to acknowledge more money , time and consideration for who is making it needs to be going on. 

[prettyinplague]

So an ex of mine actually said "I only like Sonic for the memes" and that was just... such a weird thing. It felt weird to me because it's a hyperfixation for me, versus for them just a joke and that just kinda... sucks?  That being said they were really invested in the movie so I guess there's that. They had no interest in looking into the series afterwards though. 

ANYWAY I'm used to having weird hyperfixations. I'm 28, I've had every single obsession probably and I always go back to Sonic. Because it was the first. So yeah everyone knows I'm weird but I'm also neurodivergent so that comes with the territory. So if people call me weird for liking Sonic then oh well I'm weird for liking magical girl anime and kpop. Please. 

[batson]

12 hours ago, prettyinplague said:

So an ex of mine actually said "I only like Sonic for the memes" and that was just... such a weird thing. It felt weird to me because it's a hyperfixation for me, versus for them just a joke and that just kinda... sucks?

Ouch. I totally get why that must have stung. To have someone close to you essentially say that somethig that's genuinly important to you is only good as an unintentional joke.