Being Optimistic About Sonic, The Franchise and The Future

[Redemption]

I believe being optimistic is a cruical part of life and when we avoid it or put it off we can miss the joy of the anticipation of waiting for that Sonic game that you know may have flaws but overall your just happy there a new game out that you can play and enjoy. I've notice a lot of people use the Sonic Team as an excuse to why we can't have good games or can't do well as a franchise that is most likely the case but those people are willing to point out the issue but not willing to add some meaningful soultions. I'm not talking about Jallel White or Jason Griftth coming back we can be optimistic but balance it with realistic. 

So this topic is for your hopes for the franchise not what you predict will happen cause in reality we all don't know when Sonic and his franchise will finally be finished with that said shouldn't we enjoy them while their here and making games not matter how much you dislike them. So i'll start the topic off with what i look forward to and you can add on your thoughts and what your optimistic about.

I'm optimistic for how the new Sonic movie will turn out. I'm eager to see Tails and Knuckles on screen and interacting with each other and the awesome boss battles that gonna take place. Sonic Vs Knuckles is gonna be epic. Randell could be played by a celebrity but he could be played by someone we don't even know and that's okay. Either way i'm just happy that my dream of him speeding into the movie came true.

[Piko]

I'm looking forward to seeing how Sonic Prime handles plot and tone. Man Of Action's most successful shows have a perfect balance of comedy and drama - plenty of jokes but there are still stakes - and I hope that will be applied to Prime. I'm very excited to see what it brings to the table.

[Rabbitearsblog]

I'm actually looking forward to the Sonic movie sequel!  I can't wait to see Sonic interacting with both Tails and Knuckles (especially Tails) and see just how much influence they will take from the games!  I'm also looking forward to the new Sonic Prime series, even if I'm being cautiously optimistic about it. I just hope that the writing is good in the show.

[FReaK]

The only thing I'm quite optimistic about is the split between classic and modern, since I really can't stand modern Sonics direction anymore...but classic is fine. Mania 2 or proper Sonic 5 pls.

[Rabbitearsblog]

2 hours ago, FReaK said:

The only thing I'm quite optimistic about is the split between classic and modern, since I really can't stand modern Sonics direction anymore...but classic is fine. Mania 2 or proper Sonic 5 pls.

I would definitely love to see Sonic Mania 2!  I really enjoyed playing Sonic Mania (except for the part where they were trying to tie that game into Sonic Forces).  It would be interesting if SEGA decided to make a Sonic 5!

[SSF1991]

I'm optimistic about Sonic as a whole.

it feels like all signs are pointing to the very real possibility that SEGA is finally beginning to feel comfortable with being ambitious with the brand again. I loved Sonic Forces, but it had been just too safe. Lost World was experimental, but not ambitious. The last time I felt that ambitious charm from a Sonic game was Colors, and that was mainly due to how the brand was up to that time. And any time in the last 7 years SEGA wanted to get a little more creative and ambitious, it went into Sonic Boom. Instead, Classic Sonic had been getting all the attention for years. Because they had to be "safe".

You know what I miss? SEGA making Sonic games maintain that Sonic charm we've known for so long, but also give the game some life. Forces and Lost World feel lifeless to me. Even Mania, despite all the love and care and passion it got, also doesn't have that charm and life because I'm too burnt out from the safe and overused Classic Sonic to feel it anymore. Team Sonic Racing had been the peak of this. I don't think I have ever played a game so lifeless, so lacking in charm, so boring as that game.

The thing I feel about playing too safe is that, SEGA's not guaranteeing their game is going to get a 10/10, or even a 9. SEGA's simply guaranteeing that, by doing this, their game isn't going to be a 3 or a 4. You can avoid absolute train-wrecks all you want, but after a string of lifeless 6s, it wears you down.

But I think that's finally ending. SEGA helped contribute to a movie that, despite straying from the main canon, had been a very ambitious move that had been a massive success. And the things we're hearing about Prime are making this SEGA's most ambitious Sonic cartoon since Sonic X. And the vibes we've been getting about the next Sonic games are suggesting that a new era is upon us. One where it seems like SEGA's finally trying hard to make these games the very best that they can be.

Creativity and ambition seem to be finally coming back to the Sonic franchise. I can feel it, and I am all for it.

[Piko]

2 hours ago, SSF1991 said:

it feels like all signs are pointing to the very real possibility that SEGA is finally beginning to feel comfortable with being ambitious with the brand again. I loved Sonic Forces, but it was had been just too safe. Lost World was experimental, but not ambitious. The last time I felt that amibitious charm from a Sonic game was Colors, and that was mainly due to how the brand was up to that time. And any time in the last 7 years SEGA wanted to get a little more creative and ambitious, it went into Sonic Boom. Instead, Classic Sonic had been getting all the attention for years. Because they had to be "safe".

THIS! Make fun of the “Dark Age” games all you want but at least they took risks. Sonic Team were clearly trying to make games with soul and ambition, despite some attempts being more successful than others. I’d rather have an ambitious 3/10 than a lifeless 6/10.

[Rabbitearsblog]

3 hours ago, SSF1991 said:

I'm optimistic about Sonic as a whole.

it feels like all signs are pointing to the very real possibility that SEGA is finally beginning to feel comfortable with being ambitious with the brand again. I loved Sonic Forces, but it was had been just too safe. Lost World was experimental, but not ambitious. The last time I felt that amibitious charm from a Sonic game was Colors, and that was mainly due to how the brand was up to that time. And any time in the last 7 years SEGA wanted to get a little more creative and ambitious, it went into Sonic Boom. Instead, Classic Sonic had been getting all the attention for years. Because they had to be "safe".

You know what I miss? SEGA making Sonic games maintain that Sonic charm we've known for so long, but also make the game some life. Forces and Lost World feel lifeless to me. Even Mania, despite all the love and care and passion it got, also doesn't have that charm and life because I'm too burnt out from the safe and overused Classic Sonic to feel it anymore. Team Sonic Racing had been the peak of this. I don't think I have ever played a game so lifeless, so lacking in charm, so boring as that game.

The thing I feel about playing too safe is that, SEGA's not guaranteeing theiir game is going to get a 10/10, or even a 9. SEGA's simply guarenteeing that, by doing this, their game isn't going to be a 3 or a 4. You can avoid absolute trainwrecks all you want, but after a string of lifeless 6s, it wears you down.

But I think that's finally ending. SEGA helped contribute to a movie that, despite straying from the main canon, had been a very ambitious move that had been a massive sucess. And the things we're hearing about Prime are making this SEGA's most amibitious Sonic cartoon since Sonic X. And the vibes we've been getting about the next Sonic games are suggesting that a new era is upon us. One where it seems like SEGA's finally trying hard to make these games the very best that they can be.

Creativity and amibition seem to be finally coming back to the Sonic franchise. I can feel it, and I am all for it.

I definitely agree with this! SEGA needs to start taking more risks again with this franchise.  It would at least inspire them to play around more with Sonic and his friends than to stay safe all the time.  That's what I loved about the Sonic Adventure games is that they were something that SEGA had never done before and it ended up succeeding beyond their expectations.  SEGA shouldn't be afraid to experiment with something new with the franchise.

[Guest]

I can't wait to buy more Sonic clothes to wear to the movie on opening night! (COVID please be gone by then)

[Rabbitearsblog]

2 minutes ago, Angyu said:

I can't wait to buy more Sonic clothes to wear to the movie on opening night! (COVID please be gone by then)

I seriously need to buy a Sonic T-shirt!  I can't believe I don't have any Sonic T-shirts yet!

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Rabbitearsblog said:

I seriously need to buy a Sonic T-shirt!  I can't believe I don't have any Sonic T-shirts yet!

My brother had like 1 or 2 when we were little (during Sonic's 90s fame). I just got my first one last year for the opening night of the movie. I felt great!

[Blue Blood]

The "dark age" didn't just take risks and surprise us though. It took really stupid risks and was wondering down the wrong path. SEGA were pretty tone-deaf then, and they've been pretty tone-deaf since Generations as well. I get it; I'm nostalgic for the SA1 to Unleashed days too. But I just wanna keep things in check.

SEGA need to strike somewhere in the middle. The pendulum swung really hard one way with games like ShTH, '06 and Black Knight and swung really hard the other way with Generations.  But then Forces and Lost World both struck somewhere in the middle and got it all wrong in different ways...

lol it sounds like SEGA's got an impossible job. But honestly it's not the case at all. They've just been under horrible direction.

[Multikaris]

13 hours ago, Piko said:

THIS! Make fun of the “Dark Age” games all you want but at least they took risks. Sonic Team were clearly trying to make games with soul and ambition, despite some attempts being more successful than others. I’d rather have an ambitious 3/10 than a lifeless 6/10.

And a lifeless 3/10 is the worst thing of all. So, aim for ambitiousness, as even a lifeless 10/10 is still lifeless.

[SSF1991]

8 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

The "dark age" didn't just take risks and surprise us though. It took really stupid risks and was wondering down the wrong path.

Rushed and unpolished games, poor writing, and poor level designs didn't help matters either. Those, in my opinion, did the biggest damage to the games.

When I think of an ambitious Sonic game that kept with the feel of Sonic, I think of Unleashed. I think of Adventure 2. Hell, even 3D Blast was kind of ambitious in its own way.

[Blue Blood]

10 hours ago, SSF1991 said:

Rushed and unpolished games, poor writing, and poor level designs didn't help matters either. Those, in my opinion, did the biggest damage to the games.

When I think of an ambitious Sonic game that kept with the feel of Sonic, I think of Unleashed. I think of Adventure 2. Hell, even 3D Blast was kind of ambitious in its own way.

Right?!

I often say that games like '06 are fundamentally flawed on a number of levels. To use that game as an example, it's got the following problems:

1. Artistically, it was not a popular move to throw Sonic into such a photo-realistic world with a dark and moody storyline.
2. Its gameplay is unfocused, forcing you to dot between the typically more-fun action stages and less fun town missions. You'll even have to change to other less fun characters quite regularly. Even if you choose not to play Silver's story, you'll be forced to play as him during a couple of Sonic and Shadow's levels. (Unleashed and SA2 similarly have this problem)
3. Its gameplay style as a whole shifts a bit toward very basic and repetitive combat, which is reflected in flat level design and a lot of areas where you must defeat enemies to progress.
4. The game was rush and shoddily built to the point where its riddled with bugs, broken design and missing content. Those loading screens are so infamous for a reason.

All of those issues bar the fourth are pretty subjective; which ones matter most is up to you to decide for yourself. But fixing any one of them won't suddenly make '06 a good game. Those four issues that I've listed are largely unrelated to each other. 

I wish SEGA would give me a reason to be optimistic again. I was optimistic about Pontac and Graff writing for Colours, the series' slowly finding its ground between with the first 3 boost games, the bold new direction of Lost World, the first Sonic Boom trailer, Mania bringing on board talented developers from the fanbase, Project 2017 looking like it was going to have a good story and serious tone... but all of those things ended up burning me one way or another.

• Pontac and Graff didn't have a firm grasp of the series with Colours, dropped the ball soon after and never picked it up again.
• The boost gameplay peaked in Unleashed and Generations, a whole decade ago.
• Lost World was a big mess that SEGA do their best to pretend never happened. 
• The first Boom trailer showcased a ton of content that was never in the game and we know that SEGA treated that entire game's development cycle terribly.
• Mania was a delightful game made by third-parties and it looks like a follow-up is never going to happen.
• Project 2017 turned out to be Forces and Forces was all lip-service with virtually no redeeming qualities of its own. 

I guess I could be optimistic that Pontac and Graff are out. But I thought they were going to be good for the series to begin with, so how do I know I won't get burned again? We've had increasingly uninspiring and disappointing Sonic games recently, even if they're not as outright bad as they once were. It's like, death by mediocrity at point. Sonic's boring right now. Sonic may have sucked hard for a good few year before, but it wasn't boring.

Okay... so I watched the movie for the first time last night. I'd half-joking floated the idea to my boyfriend that we watch it together and he kept shutting me down. Eventually I got him to agree to it and much to both our surprise he actually liked it. I even liked it more than I thought I would. Was it an amazing movie? Not even close. But it was decent, and a really refreshing tangent for the brand that confidently stood on its own two feet without leaning on virtually anything else. I'm optimistic about the sequel.

And there's Sonic Prime too. We know basically nothing about that yet and so there's really not much to feel optimistic or pessimistic about. But what we do know sounds cool. I'm definitely down to learn more about it.

Guess it's just the games that suck. 

[Rabbitearsblog]

1 hour ago, Blue Blood said:

Right?!

I often say that games like '06 are fundamentally flawed on a number of levels. To use that game as an example, it's got the following problems:

1. Artistically, it was not a popular move to throw Sonic into such a photo-realistic world with a dark and moody storyline.
2. Its gameplay is unfocused, forcing you to dot between the typically more-fun action stages and less fun town missions. You'll even have to change to other less fun characters quite regularly. Even if you choose not to play Silver's story, you'll be forced to play as him during a couple of Sonic and Shadow's levels. (Unleashed and SA2 similarly have this problem)
3. Its gameplay style as a whole shifts a bit toward very basic and repetitive combat, which is reflected in flat level design and a lot of areas where you must defeat enemies to progress.
4. The game was rush and shoddily built to the point where its riddled with bugs, broken design and missing content. Those loading screens are so infamous for a reason.

All of those issues bar the fourth are pretty subjective; which ones matter most is up to you to decide for yourself. But fixing any one of them won't suddenly make '06 a good game. Those four issues that I've listed are largely unrelated to each other. 

I wish SEGA would give me a reason to be optimistic again. I was optimistic about Pontac and Graff writing for Colours, the series' slowly finding its ground between with the first 3 boost games, the bold new direction of Lost World, the first Sonic Boom trailer, Mania bringing on board talented developers from the fanbase, Project 2017 looking like it was going to have a good story and serious tone... but all of those things ended up burning me one way or another.

• Pontac and Graff didn't have a firm grasp of the series with Colours, dropped the ball soon after and never picked it up again.
• The boost gameplay peaked in Unleashed and Generations, a whole decade ago.
• Lost World was a big mess that SEGA do their best to pretend never happened. 
• The first Boom trailer showcased a ton of content that was never in the game and we know that SEGA treated that entire game's development cycle terribly.
• Mania was a delightful game made by third-parties and it looks like a follow-up is never going to happen.
• Project 2017 turned out to be Forces and Forces was all lip-service with virtually no redeeming qualities of its own. 

I guess I could be optimistic that Pontac and Graff are out. But I thought they were going to be good for the series to begin with, so how do I know I won't get burned again? We've had increasingly uninspiring and disappointing Sonic games recently, even if they're not as outright bad as they once were. It's like, death by mediocrity at point. Sonic's boring right now. Sonic may have sucked hard for a good few year before, but it wasn't boring.

Okay... so I watched the movie for the first time last night. I'd half-joking floated the idea to my boyfriend that we watch it together and he kept shutting me down. Eventually I got him to agree to it and much to both our surprise he actually liked it. I even liked it more than I thought I would. Was it an amazing movie? Not even close. But it was decent, and a really refreshing tangent for the brand that confidently stood on its own two feet without leaning on virtually anything else. I'm optimistic about the sequel.

And there's Sonic Prime too. We know basically nothing about that yet and so there's really not much to feel optimistic or pessimistic about. But what we do know sounds cool. I'm definitely down to learn more about it.

Guess it's just the games that suck. 

I agree.  I'm actually more optimistic about the movie sequel and the Sonic Prime TV series because at least with the movie, it was pretty good and it seems like the writing team for Sonic Prime actually want to tell a good story with Sonic.  It's just the games I'm more concerned about because even though SEGA keeps telling us that they will improve the games, they almost never do.  Let's hope that this year will be different.

[prettyinplague]

I'm looking forward to Sonic Prime and I'm enjoying the IDW comics so looking forward to those continuing. 

Hot take, but if we are actually continuing with a focus on Modern Sonic, I'm all for it. I just hope whatever they have in store game wise is up to par. 

[expansivelovestories]

20 hours ago, SSF1991 said:

Rushed and unpolished games, poor writing, and poor level designs didn't help matters either. Those, in my opinion, did the biggest damage to the games.

When I think of an ambitious Sonic game that kept with the feel of Sonic, I think of Unleashed. I think of Adventure 2. Hell, even 3D Blast was kind of ambitious in its own way.

Yes; i feel hopeful that aspects of Breath of the Wild definitely has inspired the Sonic developers in many ways!  Removing loops and boost pads (maybe to replace them with more 3D-friendly unique objects!) would be a fraction of the risk of changing to weapons that eventually fall apart!   Slopes are a huge part of what made the original Sonic gameplay so exciting!!  Loops, while i am glad they are in so many 2D game, are not that dynamic in terms of the physics, just interesting to run along and through! 

[sassytassie]

On 2/5/2021 at 1:36 PM, Rabbitearsblog said:

I'm actually looking forward to the Sonic movie sequel!  I can't wait to see Sonic interacting with both Tails and Knuckles (especially Tails) and see just how much influence they will take from the games!  I'm also looking forward to the new Sonic Prime series, even if I'm being cautiously optimistic about it. I just hope that the writing is good in the show.

Wait... has it been confirmed that Knuckles will be in the second movie? If so I must be way out of the loop lol. That would be cool though. I'm super excited to see Tails too. 

[Rabbitearsblog]

2 minutes ago, sassytassie said:

Wait... has it been confirmed that Knuckles will be in the second movie? If so I must be way out of the loop lol. That would be cool though. I'm super excited to see Tails too. 

According to this article from the Illuminerdi, Knuckles will have a major role in the sequel.  Now whether or not Jason Mamoa is even voicing Knuckles remains to be seen.

[sassytassie]

1 hour ago, Rabbitearsblog said:

According to this article from the Illuminerdi, Knuckles will have a major role in the sequel.  Now whether or not Jason Mamoa is even voicing Knuckles remains to be seen.

Whaaat that's so cool. I kinda expected him to have an appearance at some point since they talk about the echidna tribe, so it only makes sense. But I had only heard news about Tails up to this point.

[expansivelovestories]

according to wikipedia, Sonic Colors was announced on May 26th 2010, and Generations on April 7th, 2011, and, Lost World was May 17th 2013!  So, this brings a sense of when announcements might happen this time around; Sonic Mania and Forces being officially announced so early has made whatever might be coming this year feel less actual; when really it is on course with how it typically would happen!!

[MetalSkulkBane]

On 2/5/2021 at 3:12 PM, Redemption said:

I'm optimistic

"I'm optimist" says the person with Silver as their avatar.

...You're all hearing it too, right? The second part of the quote?

Tell me I'm not the only crazy person like this. Sonic Forces is still pretty fresh.

[User18091994]

I'm optimist about Sonic's franchise because Sega is in a very good time right now. They are the number 1 published in the Metacritic this past year. They surpass companies like Square Enix, Microsoft, Sony and even Nintendo. They are releasing a lot of good games such as Yakuza Like a Dragoon. Also, Sega is saying in recent financial reports that they are putting more focus and money on their successful IPs, such as Sonic, Phantasy Star, Yakuza. That means probably the next Sonic games will have bigger budgets than Sonic Forces.

Sonic Lost World and Forces were both games with notable lower budget, the low production value is pretty noticeable. Team Sonic Racing was also a lower budget game. I think these games were disappointing and didn't reach their full potential due to their limited budget.

I can say for sure, but I think Sega is going to put more effort into Sonic's brand. Specially now that we have movies, TV shows and the comics are doing great. Sonic's brand is having a lot of exposure now. This make me optimistic about the future.

[Piko]

13 hours ago, Raphael Martins said:

I can say for sure, but I think Sega is going to put more effort into Sonic's brand. Specially now that we have movies, TV shows and the comics are doing great. Sonic's brand is having a lot of exposure now. This make me optimistic about the future.

I think you might be right. The movie was a much-needed kick up SEGA’s backside; if the fact that it was way more successful than anyone expected doesn’t scream “Hey, people still give a shit about Sonic, you desperately need to step up your game from now on” then I don’t know what does.