Is Classic Sonic Tapped Out?

[Iko]

The problems with the Megaman situation is that

1. the Megaman X subseries is not being continued anymore as far as I know
2. Megaman is almost comppletely all 2D (except for a couple of games)

While with Sonic we have several different divisions in the fanbase, not just Classic and Modern. Even if smaller, there's also demand for 2D Modern (me) and 3D classic, something that, if you make both series coexist, would be impossible to have unless you double the amount of games released in the same time frame. Else you would have to wait twice as long in order to have the game you want (and we're alredy in a situation where one game comes out 5 years after the previous one).

As I said in my previous post, I think that merging the two subseries is still the most ideal solution. Make Modern Sonic play more like Classic, make Classic Sonic include the modern content as well, make the classic exclusive characters also appear in the modern continuity, call both sonics just "Sonic" and stop differentiating them, reduce the division to just a different art style, and use the more fitting art style from game to game depending on the tone. Even "Younger Sonic" wouldn't work as well, because it would still mean to exclude a big part of the franchise from the classic styled games.

And BTW after Megaman 9, they tried again the NES graphics with Megaman 10, but with 11 they went back to a more modern look and 3D models... if we make a parallel, it means that a "Mania 2" wouldn't have the same appeal in the general audience as Mania 1 did, so I think that going for something new, more modern, is a good idea as long as the gameplay and the elements that made the classics good are preserved. The nostalgia works when it's new and unexpected, though it gets old fast (hardcore fans aside).

[SonicFanForLife]

On 2/11/2021 at 8:59 AM, Iko said:

IMO this is a problem in the fanbase; people should be more open to those small changes. Mario had small changes from the very beginning and nobody has ever complained as far as I know.

Then I guess I'll be the first. Mario's mouth was way too big and wide in Super Mario Odyssey. I didn't like how his hat looked like it was going to fly off his head the whole time when running. Also, it's not really about his design, but I didn't like how "spindashing" was Mario's fastest move. Rolling around, collecting coins to keep yourself from getting game over, fighting a giant robot in a city filled with realistic humans, and the first Mario game with vocal tracks, hmm...

I say stay with the Unleashed model. Keep modern and classic separate and make games for both designs. They made the classic universe exist in another dimension for a reason.

 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, SonicFan2832 said:

Then I guess I'll be the first. Mario's mouth was way too big and wide in Super Mario Odyssey. I didn't like how his hat looked like it was going to fly off his head the whole time when running. Also, it's not really about his design, but I didn't like how "spindashing" was Mario's fastest move. Rolling around, collecting coins to keep yourself from getting game over, fighting a giant robot in a city filled with realistic humans, and the first Mario game with vocal tracks, hmm...

It had one vocal song (in English and Japanese versions, but still). Also... there was no game over... was there??

But yeah the realistic humans part was a bit odd. The fact that the city seemed to only have adults in business suits. I think more NPC variety would've helped.

[___-_]

From a person who feels that every different art style within the mainline games should be considered as “eras” for an all encompassing timeline for every character, Classic anything should be nowhere near tapped out, but if these heads at Sonic Team keep acting like they hit their magnum opus right and only when Sonic 1 debuted, then yea, stuff that iteration of him they keep using back under his tree stomp. I don’t wanna see any more retreads. No more nostalgic crutches. Them tippy toeing around on what they think Sonic should be doing out of fear instead of what he could be doing to push the series further has gotten pretty old for me to keep dealing with. 
 

Now I’m just spit balling here, but say we’re in a better world where Sonic games are looking up to be really fuckin good again, and Modern Sonic games were the main focus for quite a few games. Now we’re dealing with a confident Sonic Team again. Next thing you know, we find out they got the balls and they hit us with the unexpected with a retelling / remake of Shadow the Hedgehog.
 

...Now hold on, before you put me on that block list, let’s just say it’s bound to be a game of quality with all the right members on board, but the catch is that during some minor segments within the game, within Shadow’s memories, the aesthetics of his past in these levels are in line with the “Classic Era” since all those events from SA2 still happened half a century ago within their universe. The game during this moment is still fully 3D, characters are still talking to help flourish a story (a non ironic / meme filled one at that, but one that confidently owns up to itself) and Shadow still has his crazy ass chaos control abilities, but they’re designed in mind to enhance his mobility to zip around through the ark and other Shadow-esque levels in Sonic Utopia like fashion. These could even be a lil segments like Classic Shadow blasting through some acts before a boss fight with Emerl or some shit (in case people are worrying about the tonality of it all clashing with the design since this is still a Shadow game. They can save all that “Someone getting shot up” stuff or whatever in a modern aesthetic if it really bothers people since that part is still an important story beat for Shadow’s character). 

Either way, I wonder how people would feel about a scenario like that, and would that be the shake up that’s some needed for this to work? Would something like that open the doors for people to consider other characters and help realize how far Sonic Team could tap into the classic formula, ‘cause the way I see it, the classic era doesn’t just have to be about Sonic all the time and what his mechanics are. Sonic Team could literally just introduce a new character within the classic era to evolve the formula in an unexpected way the same way a new modern character is pretty much expected to do, and they could even juggle said character between both classic and modern takes if the hype is there. This is how we get characters like Knuckles, Shadow, Blaze, Gamma and whatnot where they at least bring something new to the table mechanic wise or shake up a story beat for everyone else in the universe to interact with to keep things fresh. There’s nothing stopping this unless they’re just creatively spent on Sonic all together. For right now, it’s just Sonic Team of today who KEEP insisting on making it be about Sonic and throwing him into the same tropes with the same mechanics where people think there’s only one way to go about this idea. 

[SonicFanForLife]

On 2/13/2021 at 6:32 PM, Angyu said:

Also... there was no game over... was there??

No, there wasn't. I guess I never lost all my coins, so I just assumed there was a game over.

[Cadence]

I don't think he's tapped out. I think the only thing he needs to be used in is new classic games. These games obviously have aesthetic and gameplay differences that make them unique a unique cast of characters as well. So they should use that world and its characters to appeal to those who want it. They should stop shoving classic sonic into newer games though he's worn out his welcome and no amount of trying to appeal to classic fans is going to make the failures on the development end stop happening ( or sales go up really. Sales number's were released and it turns out like everyone expected forces didn't do well. Classic sonic can't fix a mess) .

I think they should take the lessons from mania and translate that to how they develop the 3d titles, make a game for a specific group of people the best way that game can be. Otherwise I don't think he needs to go away. But he doesn't really need to be everywhere

On 2/9/2021 at 3:53 PM, azoo said:

 

Which brings me to my ultimate point: none of this matters. We don't need a classic Sonic aesthetic to be separate from the modern, we don't need narrative or characters to be either. What are we gaining from this other than making the people comfortable who are insecure for liking games they consider themselves unassociated with?

You can like the "classic" leaning artwork and style all you want, but the fragmented identity is the problem here, and there's really never been any point in it. 

I do not agree with this. There are people who prefer classic sonic in aesthetic and tone and if they want that to be its own specific thing that's ok. While I do think sega makes a habit out of trying to appeal to insecure people that's more so in their constant self deprecation its change of direction of the last 10 years in the 3d brand and shoving classic sonic into things he doesn't really belong in. But on a base level if you just don't like where went adventure forward and sega makes products for you and those like you... that's fine. They just shouldn't be changing the products that aren't for you to appeal to you. (especially if those things don't sell ) 

[Wraith]

6 minutes ago, Cadence said:

 ( or sales go up really. Sales number's were released and it turns out like everyone expected forces didn't do well. Classic sonic can't fix a mess) .

Can I get a source on this?

[Cadence]

13 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Can I get a source on this?

Sonic games that actually sold well enough to be mentioned in their consumer report are mentioned here

On 2/9/2021 at 4:37 PM, Kuzu said:

Literally nobody has said anything you're accusing them off at all.

 

Sonic is Sonic my dude. The only people who make a huge ass stink about it are people who are upset that the reputation of the series has fallen off and trying to attribute that to the design shift.

Almost everyone in this thread sees Classic as just a design and nothing else, so why are you intentionally trying to frame this like a "classic vs. Modern" debate. This is exactly "Green eyes" because such a meme, because Sonic fans are so insane that that they have to make a big deal out of minor details that the average person wouldn't care about.

 

Sonic is Sonic my dude.

Eh , no most people see them as different things. To suggest that no one actually cares isn't really supported by the actual franchise itself and its attempts to appeal to people. There are very clearly people who prefer one thing and its designs, aesthetic and tone. That said, that's all it is. It doesn't really expand beyond that and isn't some heated rivalry or debate. People just  prefer the stuff they grew up with. And that's normal

On 2/9/2021 at 5:13 PM, Kuzu said:

 

 

The ONLY reason anybody even takes this argument seriously about Classic and Modern is because Sega keep validating these nonsensical claims with their haphazard decisions for the series. Had Classic never came back at all in Generations and if Sonic 4 didn't exist, we wouldn't even be having this discussion because before those games, the only ones who cared were the fans that became upset the way the series was headed and attributed it to the design, but the difference is that nobody took them seriously and they were rightfully ignored.

 

 

On this note , while yes we wouldn't be having this discussion. Because no one knew it was an option. People went with it, now that classic sonic is an option people are openly loudly voicing options held and had been voiced for years that they prefer classic sonic

[azoo]

27 minutes ago, Cadence said:

Eh , no most people see them as different things.

Maybe so if your only interaction with anyone about Sonic has been from jaded gamers on message boards.

[Cadence]

4 minutes ago, azoo said:

Maybe so if your only interaction with anyone about Sonic has been from jaded gamers on message boards.

Its not. Its not even from jaded people. Some people prefer the games and the aesthetic one way and prefer the way they see and they view that sonic and its era as different things. It isn't some harsh thing only touted by jaded gamers. Some people just like the thing they grew up with. 

The issue here isn't that these people exist. The issue is that sega hasn't until mania tried to actually isolate their tastes and appeal to these groups separately instead of opting for broad strokes games that satisfy no one. 

We truly wouldn't be having this conversation if with mania existing meant that 3d sonic could be 3d sonic in isolation. Whatever that direction entails. People would generally be happy and just go off into their own sections of the fanbase. 

[BadBehavior]

2 hours ago, Cadence said:

The issue is that sega hasn't until mania tried to actually isolate their tastes and appeal to these groups separately instead of opting for broad strokes games that satisfy no one. 

That has me wondering, if we wouldn't be seeing so much pushback against Classic Sonic if Sonic Team just left him out of Forces. If as you say, isolated them to best appeal to their respective groups. That they didn't, and all the positive press and goodies Mania got like it's dlc, youtube shorts and now a lego set, must've started a panic among modern fans that Classic was going to be the new focus of the series and that Modern was going in the trash.

Of course that might not come true, but we had no way of knowing that back then.

[Nathan]

I love me some classic sonic like sonic 2 and 3 but I personally think a lot of people can’t get over the classic and only to think Sonics works in 2d and never touch a 3D sonic game and keep living in the past.

[KnuxDLX]

On 2/9/2021 at 3:40 PM, Wittymations said:

Tired of Green Hill,

Never.