Pokémon Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl & Legends: Arceus

[Blue Blood]

39 minutes ago, Soniman said:

I don't care about exp share but like....just have a toggle and this is a non issue you HAD GAMES WHERE THERE WAS A TOGGLE. Holy shit options are never a bad thing but don't tell that to GF/Nintendo.

This is what every Pokémon fan on the Internet is collectively saying. I remember being annoyed that Gen 6 and 7 changed the EXP share to something that automatically worked on the entire team instead of just whichever Pokémon held it, but at least those games allowed you to turn the bloody thing off. If you enjoyed the grind as part of the Pokémon experience or just didn't want your team to get too strong, the option was always there. Having it on permanently definitely hinders my enjoyment of the games considerably. I remember that whilst playing SwSh for the first time, I only actually used Drizzile once in battle before it evolved into Inteleon. That just totally drew me out of the experience of raising Pokémon and learning their strengths. 

There's not a single good argument to be made for this design choice. No reason at all why it shouldn't be an option. But hey, this is the same company that made volume controls an unlockable feature from talking to an unassuming NPC in SwSh too, so I really shouldn't be surprised. And yes I know that ILCA is making this and not GF, but it's a design choice made and presumably managed by GF. 

[Salamander]

So do they want this to be a "faithful" remake, or don't they?  Single-use TMs are faithful to a fault; like much of the game, in fact.  I suppose the argument is that they're keeping the original balance as much as possible, including trainer lineups and levels; please prepare yourself for Elite Four Flint and his two Fire-type Pokemon.  But then the perma-Exp. Share handing out experience to all of your Pokemon without it being possible to turn off sets the original balance completely out of whack.  And then there's the features they're outright cutting, like some of the Secret Base decorations, and dressing up your Pokemon for contests...

[Zaysho]

9 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

There's not a single good argument to be made for this design choice. No reason at all why it shouldn't be an option. But hey, this is the same company that made volume controls an unlockable feature from talking to an unassuming NPC in SwSh too, so I really shouldn't be surprised. And yes I know that ILCA is making this and not GF, but it's a design choice made and presumably managed by GF. 

Game Freak are the ones that said they decided to leave it always on because of whatever data they gathered told them nobody ever toggled it off and if you don't like it just box the rest of your team so they don't get experience back for SwSh, so this is probably something they feel needs to be how things are done going forward.

I honestly wouldn't care that much if EVs weren't a factor but even then it's stupid to decide to take away an option when that's the kind of thing that can open up the game to people of different levels. Inexperienced players can use it, and it makes the game more fun and accessible to newcomers, and experienced players can do things to tailor the game to their style. Taking away the option when it already was like that before is so unnecessary and the suggested solution is only more cumbersome than an on/off switch.

 

I still do want to play the remake just because I think it's a fun, comfort food type of thing anyway, but I am honestly confused by some of these decisions, especially after the good showing they did to tell us they fixed the HM problem. Single use TMs make me kind of anxious too because there's some that are one-of-a-kind in the OG (Giga Drain, comes to mind) and you'd basically have to chain breed if you wanted to pass the move to something else, so hopefully there's some workarounds and they're not a pain to get.

[Nix]

I ultimately don't really care if EXP Share is permanently on as it reduces some of the useless tedium that plagues JRPGs. Sword and Shield was actually kind of fun because I got to experiment with a lot of different Pokemon during the main quest while trying to keep my levels around where they should be.

 

Breakable TMs are trash though. Fuck that.

[Blue Blood]

3 hours ago, Zaysho said:

Game Freak are the ones that said they decided to leave it always on because of whatever data they gathered told them nobody ever toggled it off and if you don't like it just box the rest of your team so they don't get experience back for SwSh, so this is probably something they feel needs to be how things are done going forward.

Right. Their reasoning isn't good at all, An option would be totally harmless, especially after it already bothered so many people in SwSh. Even if it's just a vocal minority that have an issue with the EXP share, it's a game changing feature. I swear, Game Freak's decision making process for the series has been constantly baffling. 

[Salamander]

According to the previews, GameFreak won't be supporting an official competitive scene for BDSP... and I kind of wonder if that has something to do with how they're handling TMs.  For the purposes of supporting the creation of competitive teams, it's important to ensure that players have an ongoing supply of good moves, right?  But if there's no competitive scene, if the game is effectively just being made for the single-player, then it's less of a concern.  Of course, it might also just be the reductive faithfulness of ILCA's remake, where TMs are single-use because that's how they were in the original, with any QOL deviations from the original being directly handed down by GameFreak (i.e. Exp.  Share as an always-on key item rather than a single-Pokemon held item).

I've always played Pokemon for the single-player campaign, never touched competitive, and it's basically become a completely different game at this point.  Shift rather than Set (or is it the other way around?), held items are irrelevant, double battles are essentially non-existent... and it's also where GameFreak's content production problems since the shift to 3D are at their most pronounced.  I think possibly GameFreak has made the calculation that single-players are mostly casuals and small children who won't notice or care about the deficiencies, but they need to get competitive right or they'll lose the scene.

[Kuzu]

I kind of get that logic because the casual and competitive Pokemon fanbases have always had different priorities as far as content is concerned. 

Game Freak are probably assuming casuals aren't going to play the game for very long and will just move on to a new game after a week or two, while the competitive crowd are the ones that will stick around for the longterm.

But that's pretty flawed because its assuming people play Pokemon for a binary reason; you're either competitive or you're not. I've seen plenty of fans play for Shiny hunting or just for the sake exploring a new region.

That said, it's kind of impossible to gauge the interests of a fanbase as large as Pokemon's because everyone plays for a different reason by now. So we're at a point where someone is going to feel left out.

 

The ExP share change makes no sense tho because you're taking away an option for the player. Having a toggle doesn't hurt anyone and you're giving the player more choice over their actions. It's not a deal breaker for me personally but I kind of get why it would frustrate certain people who don't like that type of stuff.

[Blue Blood]

They're teasing at least one new Pokémon or form here. Nothing really very much to comment on though. Sounds like he's talking about Snorunt at one point, I guess? The style of "found footage" is really unfitting for this game. But we've got the Arceus phone already so whatever... 

 

[Sonictrainer]

Well...fan artists are having a field day with it

 

Fanart by artworks218_

Fanart by arttorvic_

[Zaysho]

Would love a new Zorua/Zoroark form honestly, so I'm hoping that is what we're going to see. That kabuki mask inspired fan concept looks really cool and fitting.

[Blue Blood]

Zoroark always felt like a bit of a failed Lucario clone; they're both dark-coloured bipedal dog-like Pokémon that aren't legendary/mythical but still had movies centred around them before their introductory games debuted. I'd be all up for a regional Zoroark, because the original line was such a cool idea that just didn't quite stick the landing. 

Actually, I wonder just how many new Pokémon and Hisuian forms there'll be here. I hope that there's lots, although I'm doubtful of that because this isn't exactly a new Generation. But it'll be really unfortunate if they show off most of them pre-release.

[Sonicka]

4 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

They're teasing at least one new Pokémon or form here. Nothing really very much to comment on though. Sounds like he's talking about Snorunt at one point, I guess? The style of "found footage" is really unfitting for this game. But we've got the Arceus phone already so whatever... 

 

Ugh, is this supposed to be a Halloween tie in / Blair Witch inspired thing or something?

And again, what era is this supposed to be exactly? Gamefreak &/or marketing clearly don't know or care anymore. 

I want to see this game succeed so hopefully something better can come off it from a sequel to make this mess salvageable, but already it feels like they've gotten cold feet with their overly broad approach to appeal to everybody.

[Salamander]

14 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

Zoroark always felt like a bit of a failed Lucario clone; they're both dark-coloured bipedal dog-like Pokémon that aren't legendary/mythical but still had movies centred around them before their introductory games debuted. I'd be all up for a regional Zoroark, because the original line was such a cool idea that just didn't quite stick the landing. 

Actually, I wonder just how many new Pokémon and Hisuian forms there'll be here. I hope that there's lots, although I'm doubtful of that because this isn't exactly a new Generation. But it'll be really unfortunate if they show off most of them pre-release.

I agree; Zoroark definitely looks like it was meant to be the new Lucario, but didn't quite stir up enough excitement.  I actually happen to think it has a better design than Lucario, but at the same time it's trying a bit too hard.  Some interesting theories about it in the B/W lore, though, and it has a unique ability so that's something it has going for it.

How many new Pokemon will there be?  I'm going to stick my neck out here and say, based on all promotion so far, that the only new Pokemon in the game will be regional forms/evolutions, i.e. derivatives of classic Pokemon; there won't be anything that's just new without any connection to a previous Pokemon.  So, how many might that be?  Sun/Moon had eighteen Alolan forms; Sword/Shield had twenty Galarian forms/evolutions, going up to twenty-six with the DLC; and, because I think it's a similar situation, ORAS had twenty new Mega Evolutions (nineteen if you only counted Mega Latios/Latias singly, as I'm not sure they had any meaningful design differences).  So I'd say we're looking in the ballpark of twenty for a safe bet... but hopefully more like thirty.

In any case, I agree that I hope the promotion keeps a lid on as many new Pokemon as possible; Sun/Moon was depressingly unadventurous once you realised that practically every new Pokemon in the game had been revealed pre-release, whereas Sword/Shield was much more exciting in that regard.  At the same time, this is unmistakably a game which is going to lean heavily on Pokemon we already know about, i.e. the Sinnohdex, so it wouldn't be too surprising if the reveal cycle didn't worry too much about giving away too much.

[Sonictrainer]

Hisuian Zorua & Zoroark confirmed

EDIT: Serebii says that they're both Normal/Ghost, which is a brand new type combo.

[Blue Blood]

Oh... Zorua looks alright. Like most of base stage regional variants, it's not a huge deviation from the original; new colour scheme, different facial expression and some ethereal effects going on with its fur. It's alright.

Zoroark looks a bit lame though. Not a fan of that hair-do. Kinda disappointing.

[Sonicka]

5 hours ago, Sonictrainer said:

Hisuian Zorua & Zoroark confirmed

*Not actual game footage* 

Ahahaha! No bloody kidding. 

Expectation and reality. You need to be careful here Gamefreak - marketing is well off base with this game. 

[Kaotic Kanine]

Eh, I don't think Hisuian Zoroark looks that bad. I think the back just needs something interesting, but the front view is beast. 

But even then, I'm just beyond glad Pokemon is finally doing something with Zorua and Zoroark since Black and White. They were set up to be the pseudo mascot for Gen 5, just as Riolu and Lucario were for Gen 4, yet Black 2 and White 2 would have Zorua and Zoroark usurped from that position by their predecessors. And Zorua/Zoroark would be practically ignored in every other main game and spin-off, being denied a Mega Evolution or appearances in Pokken/New Pokemon Snap despite great potential (and in the case of Mega Evo, a much needed boost for competitive battling). I was convinced up until now that the Pokemon Company regarded Zorua/Zoroark as mistakes best to be forgotten, but now the Pokemon is getting new life via a region variant. And one with a very unique type combo at that. So, sure, could look better, but I'll take this over being ignored for another generation.

[Salamander]

8 hours ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

Eh, I don't think Hisuian Zoroark looks that bad. I think the back just needs something interesting, but the front view is beast. 

But even then, I'm just beyond glad Pokemon is finally doing something with Zorua and Zoroark since Black and White. They were set up to be the pseudo mascot for Gen 5, just as Riolu and Lucario were for Gen 4, yet Black 2 and White 2 would have Zorua and Zoroark usurped from that position by their predecessors. And Zorua/Zoroark would be practically ignored in every other main game and spin-off, being denied a Mega Evolution or appearances in Pokken/New Pokemon Snap despite great potential (and in the case of Mega Evo, a much needed boost for competitive battling). I was convinced up until now that the Pokemon Company regarded Zorua/Zoroark as mistakes best to be forgotten, but now the Pokemon is getting new life via a region variant. And one with a very unique type combo at that. So, sure, could look better, but I'll take this over being ignored for another generation.

I personally quite like the haircut on Hisuian Zoroark.  But I'd also like to see some official art.  Hopefully they won't take too long about it.  Apparently their typing is indicated as being Normal/Ghost in an obscure line on the Japanese official website, and it'd be nice to see that confirmed, too; it's a weird typing, somewhat self-contradictory and crazy broken in terms of immunities - especially taken in relation to the Illusion ability.  Though of course, Legends: Arceus apparently doesn't have abilities...

The way Zorua and Zoroark were handled was just weird in Black/White.  I checked back on this after reading people talking about it, but instead of getting them in the wild like Riolu/Lucario in Gen IV, you could only get them in a special encounter requiring event Pokemon?  So of course nobody had one, so of course nobody cared.  It feels... sort of of a piece with all that silliness involving TM95 Snarl, which was locked to an event item which was never actually distributed.  I'm starting to remember why Black/White had something of a negative reception at the time...

[Soniman]

If you want to make a non legendary/mythical Pokémon popular going "here's this cool Pokémon but you can't have it until WE say so lol" is a completely idiotic choice to make. It's no wonder why it didn't catch on if most kids couldn't even use it. Lucario couldn't be found in the wild either irrc but you at least were given the Riolu egg from a in game story quest 

[Kuzu]

Think the idea was to  make it seem more elusive by making it an event mon. Obviously it backfired on them.

[Salamander]

1 hour ago, Soniman said:

Lucario couldn't be found in the wild either irrc but you at least were given the Riolu egg from a in game story quest 

I checked back on Serebii, and yep, that's right; sort of like Togepi/Togetic, really.  There's an important difference between "elusive" and "literally unattainable for the vast majority of players".

[NegaMix]

Black and White's handling of Zoroa/Zoroark was absolutely ridiculous. For full context:

- You needed a Gen 4 Pokemon game (Diamond/Pearl/Platinum/HeartGold/SoulSilver) and needed to receive an event Pokemon based on the 13th movie (either a Celebi, or a shiny variant of Raikou, Entei or Suicune) in one of those games

- Then you needed to transfer them to Black/White (requiring at least two DS consoles) but NOT through the game's standard transfer system. No, you had to use a different transfer system EXCLUSIVELY used for those event Pokemon and those ones ONLY.

- THEN, once you did that, you could encounter one Zorua (via Celebi) and/or one Zoroark (via the shiny beasts).

It was asinine to say the least, so for that reason alone I'm not surprised they caught on. You could only get one in BW2 too (and it was technically N's Zorua, so it feels less like it's really yours) and since then they've been semi-regular mons that you could catch in the wild, so they're not even that special anymore.

(And that's not even getting into how it's signature ability was practically rendered near-useless from the get-go in competitive play, but that's a whole other story...)

[FlameStream]

Well in their defense, they didn't have quite the same hook as Riolu/Lucario and would understand why it was pulled back eventually (if the intention was for it to replace Lucario anyway).

I think a more likely story is that replacing Lucario was not wanted in the end, and popularity just made him ascend to where he is at right now.

[Blue Blood]

Either way, as @FlameStream pointed out, Zorua and Zoruark were introduced in such a way that they were almost guaranteed to be obscure.

Why can't Pokémon do things simply? Game Freak introduce the most confusing and unintuitive systems for their special events every generation. In fact, not even just their special events. Basic mechanics are hidden away behind codes and random NPCs. And I still don't know what the fuck the Festival Plaza was supposed to be. 

[Zaysho]

I also don't think it helps that Zoroark just... kinda sucks gameplay wise? Its move pool is shallow and predictable and its defenses are paper thin with common weaknesses especially to fighting types. It doesn't have it as bad as some Eeveelutions though. It's at least quick and can U-Turn from threats usually but I can see why it fell off once the mystique of it being hard to obtain wore off in subsequent generations.

It's a shame because I do like it but I have never had much incentive to use it (though I want to start trying one in Gen 7 just to see if I can build something around it).