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Sega of America vs. Sega of Japan: Who has been better for Sonic?

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Do we even know if SoA had anything to do with Sonic R or 3d Blast, considering Traveller's Tales are a UK studio and SoE was the one more directly involved? As far as we know SoA's area was X-Treme.

 

And again, you can argue for SoA all you like, the point is "without SoA Sonic would've died in the 90s" is outright an assumption that not only ignores the actual appeal of the games but more blatantly acts like the only countries that exist in the world are the United States and Japan.

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I think it says a lot about how insulated a lot of the fandom can be to overemphasize the importance of tie-ins and spinoffs of this series to the outside world, when to a grand majority it’s just a video game series.

Basically all that stuff, the comics the shows the books and the weird 90s Europop singles were all meant to be supplementary material you can take or leave, meant to point you where the main attraction is (the video games). Whether the games abided to what they said or not didn’t matter, because it wasn’t their shot to call, and said games can’t be held accountable for the differences because its not really a “them” problem. 

 If this truly were a multimedia franchise, Sonic’s every move wouldn’t be centered on the next major game release and (considering it’s success) movie-Sonic would be the face Sega uses for the franchise. But it’s not, so it’s not.

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57 minutes ago, azoo said:

I think it says a lot about how insulated a lot of the fandom can be to overemphasize the importance of tie-ins and spinoffs of this series to the outside world, when to a grand majority it’s just a video game series.

Basically all that stuff, the comics the shows the books and the weird 90s Europop singles were all meant to be supplementary material you can take or leave, meant to point you where the main attraction is (the video games). Whether the games abided to what they said or not didn’t matter, because it wasn’t their shot to call, and said games can’t be held accountable for the differences because its not really a “them” problem. 

 If this truly were a multimedia franchise, Sonic’s every move wouldn’t be centered on the next major game release and (considering it’s success) movie-Sonic would be the face Sega uses for the franchise. But it’s not, so it’s not.

I mean, the same is true for Pokemon, but nobody argues that it isn't a multimedia franchise sooo....

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Pokémon walked out the gate with an anime planned to tie into it, directly in support from it's creators. Pokemon (the games) also create a lot of new content not only to sell new games but specifically to give the card games and anime new content to use.

That is a multimedia franchise. Sonic is a video game franchise with multiple supplementary mediums, and basically all of it's side content outside of the games isn't necessary for the full experience. There's a pretty clear difference in how they function.

You should know this good and well, but instead you're deciding to split hairs so hard that the convo goes bald. lol

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Sonic and Pokemon are both multimedia franchises. You could probably argue Pokemon's unified approach makes it a much better one than Sonic, but I think Sega's intent with Sonic is similar wrt creating a variety of content in different mediums that feed back into eachother. They almost always have new shows, comics and films in development. The games don't really get left to carry themselves very often. 

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When looking at it that way, sure, but I don't think Sonic's "multimedia" aspects mean anything to Sonic like Pokemon's do, they exist just to exist while the actual meat is in the game material. That's kinda the whole point I'm making.

And yeah, a more unified approach would work, but where you decide the 'unity' should come from seems to be the point of contention here.

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2 hours ago, azoo said:

I think it says a lot about how insulated a lot of the fandom can be to overemphasize the importance of tie-ins and spinoffs of this series to the outside world, when to a grand majority it’s just a video game series.

Basically all that stuff, the comics the shows the books and the weird 90s Europop singles were all meant to be supplementary material you can take or leave, meant to point you where the main attraction is (the video games). Whether the games abided to what they said or not didn’t matter, because it wasn’t their shot to call, and said games can’t be held accountable for the differences because its not really a “them” problem. 

 If this truly were a multimedia franchise, Sonic’s every move wouldn’t be centered on the next major game release and (considering it’s success) movie-Sonic would be the face Sega uses for the franchise. But it’s not, so it’s not.

The thing is that people enjoy the tie-ins enough they want to see the series mutate into a multimedia franchise, so that their media concepts are integrated elsewhere. Even Pokemon doesn’t have this hold 100% of the time; we’ve yet to see Orre-based cards, for example, or gotten to see Holon in the TV show.

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7 hours ago, The KKM said:

The issue isn't with the thread name but with how the discussion's evolved into "Without SoA Marketing, Sonic would be dead"?

That’s because the focus was between the American and Japanese branches, as per the OP.

I don’t think anyone would mind if we broadened the discussion to add the European branch and others and the popularity beyond these two market, but you can’t fault the discussion narrowing to that dimension when that’s what was initially the main part.

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4 hours ago, azoo said:

Pokémon walked out the gate with an anime planned to tie into it, directly in support from it's creators. Pokemon (the games) also create a lot of new content not only to sell new games but specifically to give the card games and anime new content to use.

That is a multimedia franchise. Sonic is a video game franchise with multiple supplementary mediums, and basically all of it's side content outside of the games isn't necessary for the full experience. There's a pretty clear difference in how they function.

You should know this good and well, but instead you're deciding to split hairs so hard that the convo goes bald. lol

Wraith explained it in a much more simpler fashion, but yea; all of Sonic's products kind of feed into each other to promote the series. That in itself is the definition of being multimedia. I don't think its wrong to call it that, because the series has hardly ever stayed relevant on the just the games alone. It's four years since the last mainstream game, and the biggest buzz the series has had since was the movie. 

Its not as big as Pokemon obviously, but it's still there. 

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13 hours ago, The KKM said:

This entire argument of "Sonic would've died in the 90s if Sega of America hadn't marketed it", once again, very annoyingly seems to forget this planet has more markets than "Japan" and "US". If Sonic was a hit in Europe, South America, etc, all the markets where Sega not only had already had a presence with the Master System but also arcades and then a hit presence with the Mega Drive, you really think it would've died?

You think it's SoA to credit for something like London loving Sega so much they build an entire theme park around it in the 90s?

Sega had no presence in the US outside the Genesis because Nintendo got there first. Sega had no non-arcade presence in Japan because Nintendo got there first. Unsurprisingly, viewing just these two gives us "Sonic floundered in Japan, and was only a success in America when Sega of America got to market the franchise in the early 90s with the Genesis". And the fact there were other markets where Sega had both the console AND arcade presence just gets forgotten.

 

Sonic sells on the appeal of the games first and foremost. Cartoons and comics helped (and even then, hey, remember how Europe had their own comic????? What, it only helps sell games if it's an American one?!), but they're not what sold the game- the fact that it was the fastest platformer seen with bright colours and appealing characters with ease of drawing did. Obviously SoA played a role, but it gets way overemphasised by both the usual online over-Americanised-perspective (take a shot every time you hear about the "80s videogame crash" without the mention it only happened in one country worldwide!) and the self-promotion of SoA employees later on (Kalinske especially) which has often been shown to be dubious, like all the stories of how it was SoA that told the devs to remove Sonic's fangs or human girlfriend while Japanese-made demos were already cutting those elements.

Damn, Euros mad.

10 hours ago, The KKM said:

Do we even know if SoA had anything to do with Sonic R or 3d Blast, considering Traveller's Tales are a UK studio and SoE was the one more directly involved? As far as we know SoA's area was X-Treme.

 

And again, you can argue for SoA all you like, the point is "without SoA Sonic would've died in the 90s" is outright an assumption that not only ignores the actual appeal of the games but more blatantly acts like the only countries that exist in the world are the United States and Japan.

Well, considering 3D and R were not the most well-received, I wouldn't want involvement with them either lmao.

Let me ask you this: was SoE doing enough to save/bring back Sonic? Were those 2 game you listed... were they enough? I won't deny the impact SoE had, but can it be compared equally to SoJ or SoA?

4 hours ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

That’s because the focus was between the American and Japanese branches, as per the OP.

I don’t think anyone would mind if we broadened the discussion to add the European branch and others and the popularity beyond these two market, but you can’t fault the discussion narrowing to that dimension when that’s what was initially the main part.

Not to mention, the early 90s was a totally different time for much of Europe, was it not? The Cold War didn't end until 1991 and from what I was told (by Europeans), it took a few years for said ending to really take effect. But correct me if I'm wrong.

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3 hours ago, Angyu said:

Damn, Euros mad.

Well, considering 3D and R were not the most well-received, I wouldn't want involvement with them either lmao.

Let me ask you this: was SoE doing enough to save/bring back Sonic? Were those 2 game you listed... were they enough? I won't deny the impact SoE had, but can it be compared equally to SoJ or SoA?

Not to mention, the early 90s was a totally different time for much of Europe, was it not? The Cold War didn't end until 1991 and from what I was told (by Europeans), it took a few years for said ending to really take effect. But correct me if I'm wrong.

Are you even interested in being corrected if wrong, considering your response is just "damn, Euros mad"?

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3 hours ago, Angyu said:

Damn, Euros mad.

I'd like to remind everyone to not downplay the opinion of others with snarky jabs. Nor get heated in general.

The European market has always been huge for this series. Arguably more so at certain times than America's was iirc. SoE has always been an important factor to this series so if people would like to argue why they should take this supposed "crown" here then by all means.

I mean hell, this very site was founded by a European member to begin with.

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1 hour ago, Mountaindewandsprite said:

SoJ doesn't seem to know what to do with the franchise. There hasn't really been a consistent lore or worldbuilding. Say what you will about Archie, but Post-SGW comics were some of the best Sonic media out there.

I would say that they know exactly what they want to do with it: handle the character like Sanrio characters. (Hello, Naka-san biggest fear)

It's just not the direction that many people want.

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21 hours ago, The KKM said:

Are you even interested in being corrected if wrong, considering your response is just "damn, Euros mad"?

That wasn't "just" my response, considering you quoted the rest of it too.

20 hours ago, Strickerx5 said:

I'd like to remind everyone to not downplay the opinion of others with snarky jabs. Nor get heated in general.

Yet you let site staff do it because. Until I pointed it out.

20 hours ago, FlameStream said:

I would say that they know exactly what they want to do with it: handle the character like Sanrio characters. (Hello, Naka-san biggest fear)

It's just not the direction that many people want.

Naka should've been concerned about all the other shit he turned his back on.

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1 hour ago, Angyu said:

Yet you let site staff do it because. Until I pointed it out.

What I said wasn't a suggestion.

I have no idea what you're even referring to there. If you or anyone else has a problem with what a staff member is doing, take it up with Chris privately instead of making a scene.

One final call for chilled heads before I just start handing out strikes and bans here.

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Sega of America came up with better characters and a more engaging universe than Sega of Japan. SoA has an expanded universe of characters SoJ doesn't care about.

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