Should the Freedom Fighters come back to IDW Comics?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

26 minutes ago, Raya said:

I'm pretty sure you missed the point.

No, I know exactly what the point is. I’m turning the logic right back at you to show how silly that point really is.

You say you’re not sure we need “a blast from the past because of nostalgia to the 90's classic era,” but do we really need the IDW characters?

[Raya]

20 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

No, I know exactly what the point is. I’m turning the logic right back at you to show how silly that point really is.

You say you’re not sure we need “a blast from the past because of nostalgia to the 90's classic era,” but do we really need the IDW characters?

Dude, are you asking if we need arleady grounded IDW characters in a standalone IDW story and saying something about "just turning the logic"? I'm afraid I'm not the silliest person here xD

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

25 minutes ago, Raya said:

Dude, are you asking if we need arleady grounded IDW characters in a standalone IDW story and saying something about "just turning the logic"? I'm afraid I'm not the silliest person here xD

Define “already grounded.” Pretty sure any character, IDW or Archie, fits that description.

But no, that’s not what I’m asking. If we don’t need characters from Archie like the Freedom Fighters, why do we need characters from IDW? Make that make sense.

[The Ghost Cat]

2 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

Define “already grounded.” Pretty sure any character, IDW or Archie, fits that description.

But no, that’s not what I’m asking. If we don’t need characters from Archie, why do we need characters from IDW? Make that make sense.

When they say they don't "need" Archie characters, the reason is because we already have the IDW cast, which were created to fill in the gap caused by the Archie/Sega separation. The comic needs a non-video game character cast because those characters can experience development. They don't need the Archie cast because they already have the IDW cast to fill those roles. Hope that clears it up.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

1 minute ago, The Ghost Cat said:

When they say they don't "need" Archie characters, the reason is because we already have the IDW cast, which were created to fill in the gap caused by the Archie/Sega separation. The comic needs a non-video game character cast because those characters can experience development. They don't need the Archie cast because they already have the IDW cast to fill those roles. Hope that clears it up.

But we didn’t need the IDW cast in the first place as we already characters for those roles anyway, so why are they necessary to begin with?

[The Ghost Cat]

4 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

But we didn’t need the IDW cast in the first place as we already characters for those roles anyway, so why are they necessary to begin with?

Because Sega - for whatever reason - didn't want to *use* those characters. This is a licensed book, which as Ian and Evan (especially Ian) has been open about they cannot do anything without Sega's say so. Ian is open about wanting to bring the Archie Freedom Fighters back, he keeps getting told no. So that being the case they had to create new characters because the Archie cast is off limits. This is Sega's decision and frankly it was a smart one because it allowed them to bring in new readers who may not have been familiar or even put off by the Archie history.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

18 hours ago, The Ghost Cat said:

Because Sega - for whatever reason - didn't want to *use* those characters.

That’s not what I asked.

Why are the IDW characters necessary to begin with?

I’m well aware that Sega doesn’t want to *use* the Archie characters, but that doesn’t mean the IDW characters were somehow necessary—they could’ve just stuck with game characters only and made stories strictly about them without making any new characters at all. And the comic team is plenty capable of doing stories with just game characters alone.

[The Ghost Cat]

Just now, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

That’s not what I asked.

Why are the IDW characters necessary to begin with? I’m well aware that Sega does want to *use* the Archie characters, but that doesn’t mean the IDW characters were necessary—they could’ve just stuck with game characters only and made stories strictly about them without making any new characters.

I've already answered that and you've chosen to ignore it. Sega doesn't want the game characters to change or experience character development. They want them to be static. But in a medium like a comic book, static characters don't last very long. This is why an extended, non-video game character cast is needed. So the book can experience change and evolution without alienating the core premise of Funny animal critters fight evil robot making Doctor. Best of both worlds.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

14 minutes ago, The Ghost Cat said:

I've already answered that and you've chosen to ignore it. Sega doesn't want the game characters to change or experience character development. They want them to be static.
 

Then keep them static. That doesn’t mean make new character, it just means make new plots and conflicts to deal with.

14 minutes ago, The Ghost Cat said:

But in a medium like a comic book, static characters don't last very long. This is why an extended, non-video game character cast is needed. So the book can experience change and evolution without alienating the core premise of Funny animal critters fight evil robot making Doctor. Best of both worlds.

Static characters don’t last long in comics? Then explain how characters like Batman and Superman have managed to last for decades? Better yet, how has Sonic managed to last as long as he has with minimal changes?
 

They’ve had minimal changes and multiple adaptations of practically the same origins and stories, and yet they keep chugging along—and when they do try something new, it gets a major notice (for better or worse, not saying they have a perfect record for this). You’d be surprised how long static characters can last, and I say that as someone who actually prefers dynamic ones that do change.

The point being this: if we don’t need Archie characters, we don’t need the IDW characters either. You can make plenty of stories about Funny animal critters stopping a mad scientist from taking over the world with just the cast we had before IDW took the comic License—I know that because the games themselves, a much more extensive and immersive medium than comics ever will be, have done just that with less.

[The Ghost Cat]

5 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

Static characters don’t last long in comics? Then explain how characters like Batman and Superman have managed to last for decades? Better yet, how has Sonic managed to last as long as he has without changes?
 

The *illusion* of change. Besides Batman and Superman have changed more than you think. Heck, in the original Batman comics he didn't even live in Gotham, it was either New York or Chicago. I think it was New York. He didn't have a Bat-signal, he didn't have Alfred. He wasn't dark and brooding. These characters are always being updated. But I can see that we're not going to agree on this so, I'm willing to drop this if you are.

 

EDIT: Also I should just say I'm not against the Archie characters coming back, I'm just trying to say why we got the IDW characters to fill their roles.

Edited May 3, 2022 by The Ghost Cat
Addition to the post and correct spelling

[Raya]

46 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

Define “already grounded.” Pretty sure any character, IDW or Archie, fits that description.

But no, that’s not what I’m asking. If we don’t need characters from Archie like the Freedom Fighters, why do we need characters from IDW? Make that make sense.

Story in IDW comics from its start based on a new, original characters and their importance to the whole story - relations with each other, the whole plot et cetera. If you don't see any differences between this and incorporating characters from the totally separate comic series after more than 50 issues - sorry, I can't help you.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

34 minutes ago, The Ghost Cat said:

The *illusion* of change. Besides Batman and Superman have changed more than you think. Heck, in the original Batman comics he didn't even live in Gotham, it was either New York or Chicago. I think it was New York. He didn't have a Bat-signal, he didn't have Alfred. He wasn't dark and brooding. These characters are always being updated. But I can see that we're not going to agree on this so, I'm willing to drop this if you are.

And Sonic didn’t have green eyes, buckles on his shoes, a voice (well, this one’s debatable, and I don’t really agree, but you’ll have Classic fans swearing up and down to the point we had Classic Sonic mute in Generations, so eh…), etc.

Let me put it straight: we don’t need the IDW characters anymore than we don’t need the Freedom Fighters—we don’t need them to fill the world or any new roles given that the IDW cast are among the most recent additions in this franchise that has gone on for 30 years and has built up a world before these new characters were even brought into fruition. They could have just stuck to characters and materials from the games without any further additions and without changing the game characters.

22 minutes ago, Raya said:

Story in IDW comics from its start based on a new, original characters and their importance to the whole story - relations with each other, the whole plot et cetera. If you don't see any differences between this and incorporating characters from the totally separate comic series after more than 50 issues - sorry, I can't help you.

I don’t need your help—I could literally replace “IDW” with “Archie” in your post and it would be the exact same case.

[Raya]

28 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

I don’t need your help—I could literally replace “IDW” with “Archie” and it would be the exact same case.

Yeah, except the fact that without IDW characters it's just not an IDW story as intended. Just a little detail.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

13 minutes ago, Raya said:

Yeah, except the fact that without IDW characters it's just not an IDW story as intended. Just a little detail.

Yes, precisely. Because as I said multiple times, we don’t need the IDW characters anymore than we need the Archie characters like the Freedom Fighters. Do you get the point now?

[Raya]

11 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

Yes, precisely. Because as I said multiple times, we don’t need the IDW characters anymore than we need the Archie characters like the Freedom Fighters. Do you get the point now?

Nah, I still don't buy this whole "anymore" idea. Let creators be creative and lead characters that they see in the story and have a coherent plan with them, not the characters that fans wants because of nostalgia. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

41 minutes ago, Raya said:

Nah, I still don't buy this whole "anymore" idea. Let creators be creative and lead characters that they see in the story and have a coherent plan with them, not the characters that *fans* want because of nostalgia.

So basically regardless of whether they’re from IDW or Archie (or anywhere else, I don’t discriminate)—even considering the fact that Sega has final say for what characters can be used or not and how.

…that works no differently from what I just said.

[GentlemanX]

2 hours ago, Raya said:

Nah, I still don't buy this whole "anymore" idea. Let creators be creative and lead characters that they see in the story and have a coherent plan with them, not the characters that fans wants because of nostalgia. 

Ian wants to use the Freedom Fighters. IDW have asked to use the Freedom Fighters. IDW have talked among their team about how they would use the Freedom Fighters. The moment Sega lets them, IDW will jump at using the Freedom Fighters.

[The Ghost Cat]

12 hours ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

So basically regardless of whether they’re from IDW or Archie (or anywhere else, I don’t discriminate)—even considering the fact that Sega has final say for what characters can be used or not and how.

…that works no differently from what I just said.

Just realized I was trying to make the same point as you last night. This is why you should not engage in internet discussions when you're only half awake. Sorry about that.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

19 hours ago, The Ghost Cat said:

Just realized I was trying to make the same point as you last night. This is why you should not engage in internet discussions when you're only half awake. Sorry about that.

Well, I wasn’t mad to begin with. 

Just seeing people’s thought processes, as no one really gave a straight answer to my question.

[Mauro Fonseca]

22 hours ago, The Ghost Cat said:

 But in a medium like a comic book, static characters don't last very long.

Don't wanna comment on anything else, just- please stop using this argument or similar "thing X that I like is needed for the medium", because it indicates a lack of wider knowledge of said medium. Worldwide there's tons of comic books, and similar mediums like novels, with static characters that last decades on end.

18 hours ago, GentlemanX said:

Ian wants to use the Freedom Fighters. IDW have asked to use the Freedom Fighters. IDW have talked among their team about how they would use the Freedom Fighters. The moment Sega lets them, IDW will jump at using the Freedom Fighters.

immediately contradicting myself but adding in that like, it's a bit of a chicken and egg thing. Whether we want to use them or not, we also know there's demand from fans, so we'll want to use them to meet that.

You can't really, from the outside, parse out the difference between "they want to use FF out of genuine want" and "they want to use them because they want to meet demand", so, yeah. Dunno, not really countering what you said, just adding to it. When possible, it'll likely happen, but as to why, it can be a range of reasons.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

On the subject of static characters:

Static characters can remain static for a variety of reasons; because they like what they do, who they are, how they got where they are, etc. The world can and may change around them, yet they can still remain the same—that interestingly enough is how something can become timeless and not get old, characters like Batman, a dark brutal person with a rigid “thou shall not kill” code, has manage to still attract fame despite the decades he’s been around, who has been tested in the fires so much yet still manages to remain much of how he is despite the change of times—he had successes, and he’s had failures (as a character and as a series), but he’s been able to remain the Batman as he is iconically know.

The same goes for a series like Sonic.

Again, I prefer dynamic characters that adapt with changes over time. But that doesn’t mean something is necessary because things change—you’d be surprised what mileage you can get off of something that continues to last longer than expected if it still works, and we have more than enough examples to show that static characters can last longer than expected. That’s not saying change is bad either, but that there no such thing as it (among many things people make this point over) being necessary for something.

[ComeAsYouAre]

I mean, Batman and Superman are getting outsold by Kid's Comics and Mainstream Shounen by a large amount these days precisely because people gave up on Marvel and DC Caring about continuity. 

 

Back in the day a Series would get called for only getting 100K sales, which only a handful of Modern comics can sell these days

[Zoomzeta]

2 hours ago, ComeAsYouAre said:

I mean, Batman and Superman are getting outsold by Kid's Comics and Mainstream Shounen by a large amount these days precisely because people gave up on Marvel and DC Caring about continuity. 

 

Back in the day a Series would get called for only getting 100K sales, which only a handful of Modern comics can sell these 

...Are you implying Sonic should have a manga? Cause I'm not against that. 

[ComeAsYouAre]

1 hour ago, Zoomzeta said:

...Are you implying Sonic should have a manga? Cause I'm not against that. 

Yes, it's time for the franchise to embrace being a Battle Shounen and have one multi chapter fights

[Mobius_Historian]

The characters should be introduced into the comic with new roles they could fill.

For example, taking a page from fleetway; Sally Acorn could be a reporter, delivering exposition to the news viewer (and the reader) reporting on events. Rotor is her cameraman/tech engineer, Bunny Rabbot is her hair stylist/ makeup expert, Antoine is the news van driver/ cooks for the crew, and nicole is an AI on her tablet. they are 'freedom fighter' news, and they follow the heroes around to report on Team Sonic's adventures. Sonic and his friends barely know them, and Sonic finds her annoying because she's always trying to get an interview with him. Sally has no romantic interest in Sonic at all, she is just determined to get that story, and get the truth out to the people!

If I can come up with that, why can't IDW come up with a good use for them?