Megathread Sonic Origins | MT | General Discussion

[Kuzu]

2021 and we're still taking 4chan rumors seriously. Amazing.

[Blue Blood]

2 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

2021 and we're still taking 4chan rumors seriously. Amazing.

have you heard of sonic rangers

I mean, yes, 4chan leaks are more than likely bullshit and there was no reason to trust the Rangers leaks until after SEGA released the teaser (and accidentally leaked the name themselves). But when there are legit leaks about anything, it's not uncommon for them to show up first on 4chan.

[Kuzu]

4 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

have you heard of sonic rangers

I mean, yes, 4chan leaks are more than likely bullshit and there was no reason to trust the Rangers leaks until after SEGA released the teaser (and accidentally leaked the name themselves). But when there are legit leaks about anything, it's not uncommon for them to show up first on 4chan.

See, 4chan rumors come in two flavors.

1) The ones that just so happen to magically align with what the most vocal parts of the fanbase wants

2) The ones that might actually be legit.

 

More often than not, its the former. Rangers is more of the exception than the rule, and even then if it wasn't for Sega's screw up, it wouldn't have gained as much traction.

[Zaysho]

13 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

See, 4chan rumors come in two flavors.

1) The ones that just so happen to magically align with what the most vocal parts of the fanbase wants

2) The ones that might actually be legit.

What's a bit funny about Rangers rumors is that they've apparently been going since last Summer (very similar stories about focus testing, mentions of the open world, etc. so for all I know it's the same guy) and barely got any traction compared to other rumors that are usual fan wish fulfillment stuff. I don't think anyone would think twice about them if Sega didn't accidentally mention the title.

[VO.SUPER]

47 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

I stopped reading at "(oR mAyBeE dA s0otz R MAD aBoUT MANIA brrrrrrr)" because people who say this are always Sonic fans projecting their own disappointment with Forces being trash.

I don't want to say this adds anything to the rumor, because it doesn't. But on the subject of SOJ jealousy of SOA, while it shouldn't be framed as such, there seems some form of competition amongst the branches. In a recent Famitsu interview Hoshino did make mention of this sort of relationship working with the US branch.

Quote

something about in the future working with the "Sonic Pillar HQ" (ソニック ピラー 本部) in America?

Quote

That was just Hoshino saying that while the Japan pillar cooperates with the US pillar, he doesn’t want to “lose to them” and wants to make a lot more Sonic fans in Japan.

Source: I grabbed these semi translations from Sonic Retro.

These are funky translations, but don't suggest animosity. But it doesn't rule out a possibility of SOJ wanting to have a stronger impact than the US branch which can include Whitehead's outside team.

I WANT TO AGAIN reiterate, I'm not saying this is animosity and bitterness, but could just be some corporate politics coming out. However, it being true or not doesn't really have an impact on our end, just as long as the product is good. It could just be a genuinely healthy competition between teams and a desire for Sonic Team to prove their own skills. Really doesn't matter if the product is good and no real snubbing is involved.

However, it really doesn't have a bearing on the rumor even if it did suggest more.

[Empire88]

5 minutes ago, VisionaryofSUPER said:

I don't want to say this adds anything to the rumor, because it doesn't. But on the subject of SOJ jealousy of SOA, while it shouldn't be framed as such, there seems some form of competition amongst the branches. In a recent Famitsu interview Hoshino did make mention of this sort of relationship working with the US branch.

Source: I grabbed these semi translations from Sonic Retro.

These are funky translations, but don't suggest animosity. But it doesn't rule out a possibility of SOJ wanting to have a stronger impact than the US branch which can include Whitehead's outside team.

I WANT TO AGAIN reiterate, I'm not saying this is animosity and bitterness, but could just be some corporate politics coming out. However, it being true or not doesn't really have an impact on our end, just as long as the product is good. It could just be a genuinely healthy competition between teams and a desire for Sonic Team to prove their own skills. Really doesn't matter if the product is good and no real snubbing is involved.

However, it really doesn't have a bearing on the rumor even if it did suggest more.

Do you have the original interview in Japanese I could look at by the way? I can read Japanese.

Though I can sort of see the original Japanese in my head and if it is what I think it is, then you are right it is likely a friendly competition.

[VO.SUPER]

5 minutes ago, mitsunari88 said:

Do you have the original interview in Japanese I could look at by the way? I can read Japanese.

Though I can sort of see the original Japanese in my head and if it is what I think it is, then you are right it is likely a friendly competition.

The recent Famitsu 30th interview  people on Sonic Retro are talking about. I haven't seen it, but it's apparently very recent and mostly reiterates stuff from the previous 30th anniversary celebration issue, or it's the same interview. No one seems to be clear on that.

[Zaysho]

2 minutes ago, VisionaryofSUPER said:

I WANT TO AGAIN reiterate, I'm not saying this is animosity and bitterness, but could just be some corporate politics coming out. However, it being true or not doesn't really have an impact on our end, just as long as the product is good. It could just be a genuinely healthy competition between teams and a desire for Sonic Team to prove their own skills. Really doesn't matter if the product is good and no real snubbing is involved.

There probably is some corporate politics at play, though I'm not really sure I believe it has anything to do with Sonic specifically. At least not after SoA's screw ups with Boom. I feel like if there was any distrust after that, they wouldn't have even allowed Mania to happen, with the level of freedom it was afforded (though it might have been due to Iizuka keeping SoJ off the team's backs).

I can understand, however, them wanting to grow the audience in Japan and extending the scope of Sonic's appeal though so I can see it being something where they're trying to push themselves. I just roll my eyes at the notion that the corporate heads look at the best selling and best received game in the series in the last decade which happened to be developed by freelancers and are secretly angry about it. I'd understand it a bit more if, despite it bombing, SoA was still shilling Boom since Iizuka clearly doesn't care for it (and it sometimes sounds like the sub-series was largely developed without SoJ's involvement until late) but that obviously isn't the case.

[VO.SUPER]

56 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

I can understand, however, them wanting to grow the audience in Japan and extending the scope of Sonic's appeal though so I can see it being something where they're trying to push themselves. I just roll my eyes at the notion that the corporate heads look at the best selling and best received game in the series in the last decade which happened to be developed by freelancers and are secretly angry about it. I'd understand it a bit more if, despite it bombing, SoA was still shilling Boom since Iizuka clearly doesn't care for it (and it sometimes sounds like the sub-series was largely developed without SoJ's involvement until late) but that obviously isn't the case.

I would understand it more from a designer or production position than the actual money maker suits. Being that the production staff are usually on the ground level of projects and have to prove themselves to those higher ups that their ideas are worth paying for. Especially considering how Mania definitely cost less to develop, took less time to develop, and was smaller staffed than Forces.

This may not necessarily be about ego, but even just a sense of proving the staff still earn their positions. That may temper attempts from certain parties to develop with the Whitehead Team something that they, or other local teams can accomplish with the Origins collection. This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but maybe in a meeting someone brought up how they could make this collection with SEGA owned coding so that royalties all come to SEGA. And since SoA doesn't develop anything, they can't make a better offer there.

While certain fans may interpret it from a purely ego standpoint, it could be something more pragmatic as just trying to prove worth to ruthless corporate overlords. This is especially when said overlords may have let SoA have the go ahead on Sonic Boom and potentially fragmented their brand further without anyone below in Sonic Team knowing about it until it was waaay in development.

Edit for clarification: My point is, none of this has to be about petty ego. Just self preservation and job security. Regardless it shouldn't have an impact on how we view the final product or the people involved. It's all just speculation that serves to just get a mob on a certain scenario about SEGA regarding details that really aren't our business. If people aren't being mistreated, and the product comes out well then let it be what it be.

[Shade Vortex]

Any rumor that goes on about the animosity between SoA/SoJ and Christian Whitehead or any other member of the Mania team or Mania itself should just automatically be thrown into the trash where it belongs. Sorry, even if you think Iizuka is that petty, companies don't work on animosity towards things that made them money,

That and people should also do a common sense check with these things. Retro/Star Engine's main purpose is 2D games, not 3D. It has very basic 3D support. Whatever they're working on, 85% chance it's a 2D platformer of some sort- as that's the thing it was designed to do. I'd also say it's probable that whatever they're doing next isn't even Sonic related.

[Tenko]

While Sega can be just as annoyingly tonedeaf as any other game studio, I would like to think even they couldn't ignore the success that was Sonic Mania. If they aren't working on another retro 2D title,  which would just be plain brain dead if they aren't, then it must be Origins they are banking on to satisfy that branch of the franchise and its fans.

If there's no new retro 2D title in sight any time soon, then I would like to think they are putting decent effort and resources into whatever Origins turns out to be. Yes having decent versions of the mainline Mega Drive titles available on the current consoles, especially Sonic 3K which hasn't had a re-release in quite a while, would be great. I'm not sure how many people, outside die hard fans, would be willing to fork out anything more than a budget price if it's just these four titles with wide-screen and a few minor extra features. Especially when Sonic and Sonic 2 are available on everything under the sun at this point.

One of the biggest complaints about Sega's collected releases is that it's always the same titles over and over again each generation, outside of the few licensed titles they put onto the Mega Drive Mini (still can't believe they shook hands with Konami for Castlevania but didn't get Rocket Knight Adventures while they were at it). They could really draw a lot of attention if they started releasing more legacy titles that haven't had re-releases ever, or in a great many years, tapping into the Master System, Mega CD and Saturn libraries as well for more obscure titles in their bigger well known franchises.

Not just for Sonic, but for example, what with Fire Emblem being so popular recently and other studios translating unreleased in English titles for the first time, following trends and doing say a Shining Force Collection with not only the Mega Drive classics but titles like Shining Wisdom, Shining the Holy Ark, Shining Force III finally translated etc, that would stir up a lot of positive media and I would imagine sales.

But perhaps that's just me.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

The more I think about it, the more excited I am to play these games. The 16:9 aspect ratio does so much good for 2D Sonic in the games it’s been implemented. Maybe I’ll finally finish one of them besides CD and Mania for a change. 

[Tenko]

I wonder if they would do a collectable set for this, assuming it's not digital only. Collections don't seem to get special editions as they are usually seen as a budget release, but this is presumably part of the 30th celebrations, and the last time they did a retro collection with a bunch of collectable items packed in that I can remember was the Sonic Classic Collection on DS. So its not totally unheard of right.

[TheOcelot]

Sounds like they're putting some effort into this collection so I'd be disappointed if it's digital only. Previous collections of the classic games have had physical releases and when fans asked for a physical version of Mania we got one with "Plus" (I assume the physical release sold well). So I like to think there's a good chance of Origins getting one.

[Jango]

16 hours ago, TheOcelot said:

Sounds like they're putting some effort into this collection

We literally know nothing about it, they even used some lazy 4:3 footage of Sonic 3&K in the trailer lol (even if the trailer is outsourced, it has to go through SEGA before airing). Too soon to assume effort. 

[TheOcelot]

24 minutes ago, Jango said:

We literally know nothing about it, they even used some lazy 4:3 footage of Sonic 3&K in the trailer lol (even if the trailer is outsourced, it has to go through SEGA before airing). Too soon to assume effort. 

What we do know is these versions will all be 16:9, run natively and include features not included in the SEGA Ages versions of S1&2 (not to mention 3K finally getting a new official release after 10 years).  That's enough to suggest there is decent effort being put in and it won't be yet another shitty emulated collection of roms.

Hopefully we won't have wait too long for more information and actual gameplay from Origins.

[Jango]

1 hour ago, TheOcelot said:

What we do know is these versions will all be 16:9, run natively and include features not included in the SEGA Ages versions of S1&2 (not to mention 3K finally getting a new official release after 10 years).  That's enough to suggest there is decent effort being put in and it won't be yet another shitty emulated collection of roms.

Hopefully we won't have wait too long for more information and actual gameplay from Origins.

Wasn't Taxman's versions of Sonic 1 and 2 already better than anything we got from these games, like, ever? I'm eaaaaager to see these so called new features that ST is adding. Watch it not having half of what Taxman pulled. Imagine everyone's face if the Sonic 2 in Origins doesn't even includes Hidden Palace Zone lol I'm not giving SEGA any credit for not doing another emulated collection at this day and age, IF they've gone this route whoever, that would be an effort. An incredibly effort to take the worst decision when you already had 75% of the work ready to go years ago.

[Soniman]

I can't even think of how one could reasonably improve on Sonic 1/2 taxman, I don't even know why those just aren't the gold standard going forward because it's a lot less work for them to port anyway 

[Kazhnuz]

TBH, there are a lot of chance that it's actually the version that they use, as they have the source code, and that they said that it's not emulated (SEGA Ages version used emulation + some tweaks AFAIR). So for the moment, as they have S1/S2/SCD/S3&K in the compilation, the bet are better placed in that it use these versions as a base, especially as the work on S3&K wasn't enough started when the compilation was announced to show image of it.

The fact that Sonic CD is here pretty much make sure to me that it'll be based on the Retro Engine, as I think that this game wouldn't have been chosen if they don't have a fast path to port it.

And as porting from the original source code for modern plateformes is out of option (because the original game was in ASM made for the Genesis plateform, which mean that you can't really port that to our modern, abstracted plateform), I think that there are a lot of chance that they'll use the taxman/whitehead version, and maybe add a few features. The biggest question is for S3&K, who will do the work to remake it if they don't emulate… And I don't think that they have the source code of S3&K collection, even if that would be hilarious (but completely impractical with how much again it's a completely different plateform, it would be simpler to start from scratch that to port that) XD.

[TheOcelot]

24 minutes ago, Soniman said:

I can't even think of how one could reasonably improve on Sonic 1/2 taxman, I don't even know why those just aren't the gold standard going forward because it's a lot less work for them to port anyway l

Agreed. If Origins includes ports of the Taxman versions and 3K remastered to the same standard then it will be the perfect/best collection of those games ever released and should be ported to future consoles in years to come. Baffles me that the Taxman versions are still exclusive to mobile-they should have been ported to consoles 8 years ago. Even Taxman offered to port them to consoles when he pitched Sonic Discovery and Iizuka declined (...but at least we got Mania instead).

[Jango]

Tails and Knuckles in Sonic 1 and 2 with all their skills and even some unique level design, the elemental shields, Sonic's spindash, super peel out, insta shield, drop dash, a seventh Chaos Emerald for S1 and Hidden Palace for S2, HQ music without cuts, time attack, boss rush...

It's really hard to top that, but MAYBE they could also add Mighty and Ray, a multiplayer (couch and online) like Sonic 2 to Sonic 1 and CD, or even 3&K, because that competition mode's only salvation is the music... Perhaps a sprite selector, some filters? Hard mode? An in-depth documentary about Sonic 3's soundtrack controversy and long awaited closure?!?!

[TheOcelot]

I'd love it if they made Azure Lake, Balloon Park, Chrome Gadget, Desert Palace & Endless Mine into full-sized playable acts for 1-Player mode (which is one of the things Taxman & Stealth were planning on adding when they originally pitched the Sonic 3 remaster).

In this 4Gamer interview Iizuka talks about adding elements to Origins which makes it easier for beginners:

Quote

Similar to "Sonic Colors Ultimate", it was planned to let people who have recently learned about Sonic know "the origin of Sonic". The 5 titles released for Mega Drive can be played on the current machine, but the recorded titles are not based on the emulator, but are properly ported to the current hardware. This will allow you to play everything on a 16: 9 screen.

In general, emulator-based porting is easier to do, but since it is a title that has been played for 30 years, I would like to take this opportunity to revive it again on the current hardware. With that feeling in mind, I dared to try transplanting. Since it's in the early stages of the project, there's not much I can talk about in detail, but since it's not an emulator, you can modify the game itself. While faithfully reproducing the original, I would like to think about elements that make it easier for game beginners to play, such as "Sonic Colors Ultimate".

I think this pretty much implies Origins will have some sort of "easy mode" perhaps where the lives system will be removed. 

[Indigo Rush]

Something I'd like to see them take a shot at is a kind of remix mode that has some focused challenges or mashes elements from different stages and games together, not unlike certain challenges in the NES Remix series. Stuff like time travel in non-CD stages, mashing two bosses together, putting Sonic in normally Knuckles-only areas, that sort of thing. I think it'd be neat.

[Jango]

39 minutes ago, TheOcelot said:

I think this pretty much implies Origins will have some sort of "easy mode" perhaps where the lives system will be removed.

I think Iizuka's kids suck at Sonic, because where else he's taking that kind of feedback from? Sonic Colors was already one of the easiest modern Sonic games, now you're going to make even the classics easier lol We beat that shit at the age of 7. 

[LegoFedora]

3 hours ago, TheOcelot said:

I think this pretty much implies Origins will have some sort of "easy mode" perhaps where the lives system will be removed. 

That'd be nice. Even though we may find 1/2/3/CD easy, I wouldn't be surprised if kids nowadays had more trouble with them (especially since they aren't as handholdy as the current Sonic games they're used to playing). I kind of hope they do remove lives as an option, I hate getting to the very end of sonic 2 and losing all my lives to the Wing Fortress boss zone (which happens more times than I would like to admit). May be redundant for S3&K with it's save system, but it would be nice to not have to redo the entirety of Death Egg 1 again.

I'm all for more accessibility with older games, even if slightly against the original design idea (get good enough at a stage to beat it while saving lives/rings for emeralds).