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Sonic Origins | MT | General Discussion


Ryannumber1gamer
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You know. I would love a remastered Sonic Spinball. That cleans up the framerate and some of the weird physics so it's not such a ball bustingly difficult game.

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Indigo Rush

Sonic Spinball deserves a second life altogether. The idea of Sonic being a literal pinball is an underutilized concept that deserves an entire game based around it. It's a shame that the only one we have is as mediocre as it is. 

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21 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

Sonic Spinball deserves a second life altogether. The idea of Sonic being a literal pinball is an underutilized concept that deserves an entire game based around it. It's a shame that the only one we have is as mediocre as it is. 

And the other one on GBA isn't worth remembering apparently 😂

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Indigo Rush
5 minutes ago, Soniman said:

And the other one on GBA isn't worth remembering apparently 😂

Oh, it's a good one. But Sonic isn't the pinball, and it isn't a platformer-pinball hybrid. Pinball Party's just a straight up pinball game with Sonic Team themes boards. Different concept.

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Shaddy Zaphod
1 hour ago, CertifiedNobody said:

Yes but having at least SOME of the bosses, enemies, special stages and open world regions done around two years before release means the game is pretty far along in development,

Uh, again, says who? Without a concrete idea of what those things are and how much, we can't be certain about that at all. Maybe if we assume everything people have seen is in it's final, completed state, then sure, you could say they cut chunks off of a mostly-complete game, but everything there was and is subject to change, and may already have changed, given how the earliest of these leaks dates to a year ago. You can never know how much work a game is going to take before it's done. I would advise against just assuming anything is finished based on "it feels like it should be". Rise of Lyric looked more complete when it was announced than it did in the final release.

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Endless collections with no difference isn't idea but given that Origins is re-releasing Sonic 3 for the first time in about a decade and that there are potentially interesting extras I don't see a problem with it. I would like to see something like Chaotix or Mean Bean Machine be re-released but this is at least something. Yes the classic branding was a lot stronger a few years ago but I don't see a problem with marketing to another new generation, given that Classic content is still there anyhow, at least in the background. I just hope they add something to spice up the games. Maybe a marathon mode as mentioned, extra special stages, or even adding extra level layouts for more experienced players. I doubt Sega will be very ambitious with this and they'll likely go with the bare minimum but if they plan to do anything better they should go all-out.

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Looking at the eShop prices for the Sega Ages titles they couldn't set the price higher than say $39 US could they? Without some kind of substantial reason.

Next thing Origins turns out to be a paid digital base set, followed up with paid content add-ons. "Master System Pack", "Game Gear Pack", $4.99 for Spinball etc

Like how the Mega Drive Classics are handled on Steam, or Atari Vault.

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I know some folks are saying that we're getting this collection because of Mania's success, but I honestly think we're getting it more because of the movie's success. Sonic Mania was a love letter to everyone who grew up with Sonic in the 90s, meant to give them everything they could wanted from a follow up to Sonic 3&K. It was also something by fans for fans, which is why it was born out of Whitehead's team.

Sonic Origins is not like that. I believe in interviews it was stated that Origins is meant to reintroduce the classics to a contemporary audience by modernizing the package of playing them. It's not about creating a package for fans that celebrates Sonic's history, if that were the case it would have all the other old games like Mega Collection and Gems Collection and probably wouldn't do more than have them played through emulation. But this is about taking what they consider the core of Classic Sonic's experience and making it available in as high a quality as possible.

So is this collection aimed at me, someone who has played these games since I was four? Honestly, I don't think so. Will I get it? Probably at some point, but I'm more interested in the bonus content like playable Tails and Knuckles in Sonic 1, Tails in Sonic CD, and Hidden Palace in Sonic 2. Because I wanted those ports on a physical release for home consoles. But I don't think getting me those things is why Sega's releasing Sonic Origins now; I honestly don't feel like the target demo for this release.

As for not including the other Classic games on this, if I'm right I'm honestly not sure if Sega will release those games again. Modernizing those games would probably require a lot more effort than the core titles for likely significantly less returns. I think it'd be awesome if Sega went the route of essentially remaking those games like some fans have with stuff like Sonic Chaos 16-Bit, but that just seems unrealistic. You could go the other route and put out a cheaper collection where everything else is simply reprinted via emulation, but that risks cheapening the brand image - which we're assuming they're trying to avoid with how they're treating Origins. I don't know, I'm just hoping Origins is enough of a success that it'll get them to re-release SA1/SA2 in something similar in a few years.

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A super No.1 washedupgamer
7 hours ago, Indigo Rush said:

Sonic Spinball deserves a second life altogether. The idea of Sonic being a literal pinball is an underutilized concept that deserves an entire game based around it. It's a shame that the only one we have is as mediocre as it is. 

Something along the lines of the sonic mania bonus stages would be a good start.

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Whatever the WhoCares
7 hours ago, Indigo Rush said:

Oh, it's a good one. But Sonic isn't the pinball, and it isn't a platformer-pinball hybrid. Pinball Party's just a straight up pinball game with Sonic Team themes boards. Different concept.

I would honestly rather have Stern make a Sonic-themed pinball machine. Seriously, if you go to your local barcade and look at the fancy new pinball machines they have now, you’ll be drooling for a Sonic one. 

I’ve played a machine with a loop-de-loop ramp, so that’s doable too. 

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CertifiedNobody
20 hours ago, Shaddy Zaphod said:

Uh, again, says who? Without a concrete idea of what those things are and how much, we can't be certain about that at all. Maybe if we assume everything people have seen is in it's final, completed state, then sure, you could say they cut chunks off of a mostly-complete game, but everything there was and is subject to change, and may already have changed, given how the earliest of these leaks dates to a year ago. You can never know how much work a game is going to take before it's done. I would advise against just assuming anything is finished based on "it feels like it should be". Rise of Lyric looked more complete when it was announced than it did in the final release.

Sure, a lot's subject to change, but people weren't playing through some incomplete test levels, they were playing through an overworld with lots of puzzles and challenges, with the EXP system, skill tree, and even Super Sonic developed. We can never tell exactly how much of a game is finished, but I doubt giving Sonic Studios a side project like Origins world massively impair the game, especially when COVID delays gave it an entire extra year of development. Also Sonic Boom isn't comparable, since it had to be crammed onto Wii U.

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Shaddy Zaphod

But I'm not the one giving an estimate of how far along the game's been developed, I'm just saying you can't know for certain how complete it actually is based on what we've heard.

Also, Rise of Lyric didn't "have" to be crammed onto the Wii U, it was a conscious decision the publishers made, and the game suffered for it. There is zero reason the same thing can't happen here, albeit probably not with the same decision.

I am not trying to say the game is a disaster waiting to be released as an unfinished mess, I am saying that claiming the game is mostly finished is totally unsubstantiated when we don't know how much content it's supposed to have, and we don't have a great idea of what it does have. A couple of the leaks said the overworld was all it had, so some people might be full of shit. I'm simply presenting an anti-absolutist argument to temper expectations and not spread misinformation here.

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11 hours ago, CertifiedNobody said:

Sure, a lot's subject to change, but people weren't playing through some incomplete test levels, they were playing through an overworld with lots of puzzles and challenges, with the EXP system, skill tree, and even Super Sonic developed. We can never tell exactly how much of a game is finished, but I doubt giving Sonic Studios a side project like Origins world massively impair the game, especially when COVID delays gave it an entire extra year of development. Also Sonic Boom isn't comparable, since it had to be crammed onto Wii U.

It depends of too much things to be really know how far it is, to be frank. Especially as even if they a bit of the game "content" done, often when you create a game, the big part of the work is the polishing, the fine tuning, having your game as good as possible. The game here was also described as really rough, which mean that there are a lot of work to do.

BUT that doesn't mean that Sonic Origins is a problem for that game. It's different kind of style, needing different kind of skills. Sonic Studio seems to be more the "overseeing" part of the people that work on Sonic, so I'm still not convinced that the actual people that are developing that stuff are people that would have developed Sonic Rangers. It could either be done like Sonic Colors Ultimate, with a team of people that do that kind of job, or with simply other people that work at SEGA (or even SEGA CS2 I mean, I don't think that 100% of CS2 is on Rangers).

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On the topic of 3&K, I really hope we can still use the MJ Team's tracks. Like, the beta tracks are fine, great even in the case of Carnival Night and the Competition theme, but imo the tracks just don't fit as well as the final game's tracks (and just aren't as good in general). Obviously, at the end of the day, I'll take a version with only beta tracks over no version at all, but to have the definitive official version of 3&K not include the MJ tracks would be very sad. I guess I just have to hope those legal issues are sorted out lol

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If the MJ music doesn't get in, what do you think the chances are that Sega is ok with using the original music after the prototype leaked? A sort of "Well they know what the original music was, I guess we may as well use it now". Were they reluctant to rerelease S3&K with the original music due to people not really liking when it was in the old pc port?

3 hours ago, Penny said:

On the topic of 3&K, I really hope we can still use the MJ Team's tracks

That'd be nice, but I feel like those tracks are the reason Sega hasn't rereleased it in awhile. If they do bring those tracks back, I hope they settled on a way to have full rights now instead of just extending the old contract so that they don't have to worry about right issues anymore.

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My personal view is that what they do is less important than that they do something.  It seems like they've been dragging their heels over S3&K for years, doing nothing rather than making a decision that might be difficult or upset some people.

I grew up with the PC tracks, so the beta tracks making a return over the MJ tracks wouldn't bother me.  But if they can get the tracks from outside artists back, more power to them and to the people who love them.  Just so long as they make a decision and work towards it.

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Shaddy Zaphod

I'll be the first to sacrifice the Genesis version of Carnival Night, but it's going to be hard losing Ice Cap after so long.

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CertifiedNobody
25 minutes ago, Shaddy Zaphod said:

I'll be the first to sacrifice the Genesis version of Carnival Night, but it's going to be hard losing Ice Cap after so long.

Both versions of Launch Base are great, and I'm fine with either one

Also do people think Zippo was right about what happened with MJ's estate and Sonic 3? he was wrong about some things but right about others, so it's likely he was getting at least some legit info

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I need the MJ tracks. Listening to any song from the pc version next to the mj version its no contest on the ears. Sonic 3s pc tracks sound to wacky. like past sega cd levels of wacky. Ice cap and Launch base were great. Same with the mini boss and end credits stranger in moscow tracks. But well see. If it is the pc version though I can say it will be the one i rush through the collection the fastest and shelve.

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5 hours ago, Meta77 said:

I need the MJ tracks.

No you don't.

If the collection doesn't feature the MJ songs, you can always count on someone modding the PC version and adding them back. In less than a day I'd say. But if the MJ issue was the one thing stopping Sonic 3's re-release and the collection actually features his tracks, than it's just dumb why SEGA haven't released this before, unless said issues were only sorted this year. And if the game features the beta music, then we will know for sure MJ was the reason, even if SEGA doesn't directly say. Either way, we're getting these games officially, which is already a big step forward, even if a little too late in my opinion.

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1 hour ago, Jango said:

No you don't.

If the collection doesn't feature the MJ songs, you can always count on someone modding the PC version and adding them back. In less than a day I'd say. But if the MJ issue was the one thing stopping Sonic 3's re-release and the collection actually features his tracks, than it's just dumb why SEGA haven't released this before, unless said issues were only sorted this year. And if the game features the beta music, then we will know for sure MJ was the reason, even if SEGA doesn't directly say. Either way, we're getting these games officially, which is already a big step forward, even if a little too late in my opinion.

I mean all the games on this collection are on pc. unless they are heavily changing them 3 is the only one we never got got before by itself. And true if its on pc you can beat day would I am modding in the MJ tracks. But i would not say it was MJ that did not want the game released I thought that was more of the estate issue and wanting money.

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I'd like 3K's OST to get a physical-disc release. I don't think 3K's soundtrack has ever had one? So if the music issues regarding the soundtrack have finally been resolved then a physical release could be a smart move to coincide with the release of Origins & Sonic's 30th anniversary year. By all means include the beta tracks which are good (especially both acts of Carnival Night). Sonic 1, 2 & CD OST's have all had physical releases in the last 10 years, so now it's 3K's turn!

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5 hours ago, Soniman said:

Sega really love sending mixed signals

 

It was actually because the arcade cabinets were already blurred and they didn't bother to fix it when she held up the cartridge. We see them pretty clearly when she's plugging them in together lol

The weirder one was when they blurred out the movie poster in another segment (though I mean, yeah, I'd like to pretend the movie doesn't exist too).

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