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Sonic Origins | MT | General Discussion


Ryannumber1gamer
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1 minute ago, Jango said:

A hub-world similar to Sonic Jam (lots of rooms with extras, some challenges and easter eggs) would seal the deal for me, as of now, I'm probably only getting this when it's on sale, even with Sonic 3&K's long due inclusion. It's too little too late for this collection in my opinion =\

Exactly, if this was given to us in 2019 to give us something to hold us over it would be perfect but this was announced to us as a 30th anniversary celebration collection. If all we get for such an occasion is a collection that only covers the first 4 years of said 30, that is undeniably piss poor.

Again I wouldn't mind it so much if it came after constant ignoring of Unleashed's demand and other baffling non existing re-releases(Why the hell hasn't Lost World been put on Switch? You know, the only platform where it can have all of its DLC?)

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Ryannumber1gamer

I've said it once, I'll say it again - I don't really mind a Mega-Drive collection, per say. But A. I don't like how bare-basic this one seems to be. Again, I wish they would've just taken the chance to make it a modern Mega Collection and go hog-wild with the Classic era. Like, they have games like Fighters clearly available if they're putting it into a Judgement sequel, but they can't throw it into the Classic collection? Why not just throw in R, the Game-Gear games, and even Knuckles Chaotix? Make a definitive collection with actual new selling points. Games like R haven't been readily available since 2005, and Chaotix hasn't been available period.

But my main issue is always going to boil down to the same issue - I'm sick of SEGA constantly targeting these re-releases to the Classic era. We've had multiple releases of quite a few Mega-Drive games that are still easily accessible on all the new systems. Switch even has two - soon to be three - of these. Sonic 3 & Knuckles and CD is neat, and deserve a re-release, but it doesn't change the fact that half of what makes up this collection is still games constantly being made readily available, and they even stalled their wheels so long on doing so that fans ended up getting the Taxman remasters and making them easily available and moddable anyways. 

As a person who got into the series with Heroes, and has grown up in the DC/Modern era, I want more than just the Mega-Drive titles slapped together into yet another compilation re-release. I'd like to be able to play Adventure and Adventure 2 without having to set up my PS3 or deal with badly optimised PC ports that are near-broken, but still are readily sold without fixes. I'd like to be able to easily play Advance and Rush without having to go out of my way to track down decades old GBA cartridges on eBay, or second-hand shops. Hell, it'd be nice to even just have Shadow, Heroes, and Riders easily accessible nowadays.

It's so frustrating to me that there's an entire chapter of Sonic's history that SEGA refuse to acknowledge or re-release, instead opting for the same five games over and over again (Sonic 1, 2, 3D Blast, Mean Bean, Spinball). It's even funnier to me that the entire idea behind Gems Collection back in 2005 was SEGA deciding to re-release some of the hardest to get Sonic games at the time, since Fighters was arcade only, R was PC/Saturn, and CD was locked to PC/CD. If anything, I feel like a Modern day Gems Collection would be way more valuable than a modern day Mega Collection, although it'd just be nice if we could have both

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Let me explain why this fails as a 30th anniversary collection, to celebrate theirs Rare made Rare Replay:

 

While it doesn't include every game they've made before 2015, it included all the ones you'd expect, their first game Jetpac, as well as most of their other obscure pre-NES games, all of their Nintendo era catalogue that belonged to them instead of being tied to another company(Some of them even are HD enhanced versions if we want to draw more comparisons), and even all the pre Xbox One Microsoft games except for the Conker remake(They went with the original for this collection, which was wise) and their Kinect stuff, but no one cares about those anyway.

In total it's 30 games that overall cover 30 years of history rather nicely. All for only 30 bucks/euros/pounds.

Oh also developer interview videos, artwork, Rewind feature and a beautiful theatre like presentation that has that opening number that is straight up 90s Rare.

So yeah, if SEGA's idea of a 30th anniversary collection is this, then yeah, it's piss poor.

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I honestly think this collection should've come 5 years ago, for the 25th anniversary instead. Sonic Mania basically took Sonic 4's place as the actual Sonic the Hedgehog 4, so giving everyone a sweet, even if barebones, package with the trilogy of games that came before it, would've made perfect sense, instead of this bullshit excuse Iizuka gave for Origins "WELL, guess Mania introduced a younger generation to classic Sonic, so let's give them the classic games!... now! 5 years after Mania's release. When this people probably already found other ways to play these games through emulation or other previous collections". 🙄 Origins feels like a "we ran out of ideas, let's do something that always works" project.

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Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon
1 minute ago, Jango said:

Origins feels like a "we ran out of ideas, let's do something that always works" project.

Not really seeing the logic in that thought.

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9 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

Not really seeing the logic in that thought.

I fail to see yours too, care to elaborate?

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Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon
17 minutes ago, Jango said:

instead of this bullshit excuse Iizuka gave for Origins "WELL, guess Mania introduced a younger generation to classic Sonic, so let's give them the classic games!.

That honestly doesn't seem like a good interpretation of the situation. 

Especially when this thing is finally bringing the Taxman ports to consoles and PC, as well as apparently doing something new with Sonic 3 & Knuckles. 

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Hang on Hang on hang on… have I missed something?

So the Taxman/Stealth versions are 100%  confirmed to be in this collection then?

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30 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

That honestly doesn't seem like a good interpretation of the situation. 

Especially when this thing is finally bringing the Taxman ports to consoles and PC, as well as apparently doing something new with Sonic 3 & Knuckles. 

We don't know if it's actually the Taxman ports or if SEGA are also ground up remastering the other games. Not once has Izuka mentioned if these were those versions. He's honestly seemed to have avoided even mentioning they exist in every interview, only mentioning the M2 ports.

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Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon
7 minutes ago, VisionaryofSUPER said:

We don't know if it's actually the Taxman ports

Uhhh, we've known since May that those will be the Taxman versions.

7 minutes ago, VisionaryofSUPER said:

Not once has Izuka mentioned if these were those versions. He's honestly seemed to have avoided even mentioning they exist in every interview, only mentioning the M2 ports.

Even if we didn't have the confirmation of Taxman, the ports, from what we've seen are not the M2 versions, given the physics and widescreen elements on display.

It's definitely something different. 

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14 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

Uhhh, we've known since May that those will be the Taxman versions.

Even if we didn't have the confirmation of Taxman, the ports, from what we've seen are not the M2 versions, given the physics and widescreen elements on display.

It's definitely something different. 

This is no "uhh obviously" situation. For all we know, those were shown for demonstration purposes rather than as examples of what they will be. And I never said these would be the M2 versions, but that we don't know if they really will be the Taxman versions or just redone remasters using an inhouse SEGA engine.

The major thing with the Taxman ports has always been that SEGA doesn't own the engine supporting these games, so that's always been the big thing about whether or not SEGA wants to commit to using them.

Izuka constantly references these ports as just being in widescreen, but never mentions whether they will be the same as the IOS versions, features included.

As for, "why the hell wouldn't they?" I answer with, "why the hell has it taken this long to port these?" There's no sound logic with this situation.

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Indigo Rush

The Tax/Stealth versions aren't exactly 100% guaranteed, but it'd be really, really unlikely to not be the case. 

1 hour ago, VisionaryofSUPER said:

'why the hell has it taken this long to port these?" There's no sound logic with this situation.

Right, so:

They kind of were going to do this earlier with Sonic 1, 2 and CD, and they were going to throw in a few new stages, too! But Iizuka suggested turning it into a full game, and that ended up working well for them. 

Also, Sonic 3&K has been in some sort of legal limbo because of it's soundtrack, apparently a few of the tracks have some sort of hold on them; just the King of Pop, no one important.

Recently though, it was discovered that the beta version of Sonic 3 had different tracks that don't have this hold on them, and the fanbase generally liked them.

Sorry. Sarcasm aside, I'd think between the owners of the Retro Engine being occupied with the Mania project in lieu of their remaster collection pitch and the legal issues surrounding Sonic 3&K, they probably just weren't able to do a collection of this calibur. 

And yes, I'm absolutely implying that Origins' version of Sonic 3 will be using the Beta/PC music for Ice Cap, Carnival Night and Launch Base. 

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Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon
1 hour ago, VisionaryofSUPER said:

As for, "why the hell wouldn't they?" I answer with, "why the hell has it taken this long to port these?" There's no sound logic with this situation

Sonic 3K has literally been in legal limbo. That's pretty much the top reason it's taken a while.

Pretty logical there.

There are other potential reasons, but if they dealt with the legal issues by now, then it makes sense that they'd strike while the iron's hot, especially with how many people have been begging for a new port of that game.

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Come on guys, I meant Sonic 1+2+CD. Not Sonic 3. Not even as a collection, but as individual PORTS of the IOS releases, no collection required.

Even taking into account Mania and it's DLC, there was still 2019+2020 for this kind of a project to get going. Yet we've only now just heard of this in 2021.

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Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon
12 minutes ago, VisionaryofSUPER said:

Even taking into account Mania and it's DLC, there was still 2019+2020 for this kind of a project to get going.

Which is forgetting a certain pandemic that ravaged things horribly for a great portion of time. There are multiple elements to it.

For all we know, there could've been the plan for the collection as it were, but the legal battles, development and whatever new changes were allegedly implemented,  could've extended the development. 

It's not really concrete to suggest that there's no possible logic on hand.

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Indigo Rush
30 minutes ago, VisionaryofSUPER said:

Even taking into account Mania and it's DLC, there was still 2019+2020 for this kind of a project to get going. Yet we've only now just heard of this in 2021.

2018 they had just wrapped up the DLC, the Mania Team then broke apart and a few of them became Evening Star while the others did their own thing, and they were likely unavailable for any sort of contract work. They would have started their own studio for things other than Sonic. Evening Star isn't owned by Sega, it's an indie studio, and they're not necessarily going to be gunning for the next Sonic project to pitch. 

And. Ugh. Hate to use this as another scapegoat, but COVID did a number on every industry. You really need to factor that for the tail end of 2019 and all of 2020. 

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Evening Star has been quiet ever since its conception outside of their rebranding of the Star Engine (as the Retro Engine is now called). So pardon me if I don't see how that still holds back the majority of 2019, and even a small percentage of 2020 from at least starting something concrete for us to follow. We know the Colours project has been at least at work since 2020 and had to be delayed even with a larger team.

But look, your response to my witty response aside. I want to bring this back to there being a vague lack of definitive proof that these new ports are the IOS ones. What reason is there for at least not mentioning developers or teams involved? For a project apparently releasing early 2022.

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Indigo Rush
1 minute ago, VisionaryofSUPER said:

Evening Star has been quiet ever since its conception outside of their rebranding of the Star Engine (as the Retro Engine is now called). So pardon me if I don't see how that still holds back the majority of 2019, and even a small percentage of 2020 from at least starting something concrete for us to follow. We know the Colours project has been at least at work since 2020 and had to be delayed even with a larger team.

Honestly, this would just be because it takes a lot of time to make a game. While a year and some change seems like plenty of runway to get a project off the ground, the R&D process as well as brainstorming can be a lengthy hassle, especially if this is an indie studio we're talking about. 

 

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1 minute ago, Indigo Rush said:

Honestly, this would just be because it takes a lot of time to make a game. While a year and some change seems like plenty of runway to get a project off the ground, the R&D process as well as brainstorming can be a lengthy hassle, especially if this is an indie studio we're talking about. 

 

We shall just have to see how it goes. I remain skeptical of the silence.

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Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon
2 minutes ago, VisionaryofSUPER said:

We shall just have to see how it goes. I remain skeptical of the silence.

Skepticism should not give way to blind cynicism that clouds judgment and logic though.

Especially with how much misplaced blame Iizuka and company  already get from foolish folk.

And yes, before you ask, the same thing goes for blind optimism as well.

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6 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

Skepticism should not give way to blind cynicism that clouds judgment and logic though.

Especially with how much misplaced blame Iizuka and company  already get from foolish folk.

And yes, before you ask, the same thing goes for blind optimism as well.

It can be something as simple as SEGA wanting full ownership of the game engine. There doesn't have to be anything cynical behind not hiring back Whitehead or using their engine when SEGA corp could want to have a higher stake in future releases like how they earn full profit from the M2 releases.

It doesn't have to be cynical.

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I can see a few points of view which are fair even in the more negative posts. 

I mean the 30th Anniversary is a static date, they have known its coming since the 25th. Unless this project is far more ambitious than we currently know, it doesn't look good when a collection containing, as far as we know, five titles, three of which have had the vast majority of its prep-work done years ago, isn't releasing until next year.

The prevailing theory for the later release being that Colours Ultimate was meant to come out earlier but release schedules were pushed back due to the pandemic. Which makes sense.

But then I do wonder about that bare-bones announcement and lack of information on Origins if it is further along in development than we have been lead to believe. Cannibalizing sales or interest/spotlight feom Colours Ultimate seems the likely reason. But would either, being what they are, take sales or interest from the other?

I'm really interested to see what the extras Iizuka mentioned will be that they feel the need to give this collection its own spotlight after Colours Ultimate has had its time to shine.

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Still makes no sense to release it now instead of years ago when the classic pandering was at its peak, and perhaps a lot of younger people indeed got introduced to the classic games like Iizuka said, but now? When the new series will focus on modern Sonic, when the movie uses the modern Sonic design as reference. Nah, Origins is 5 years late and there's zero logic saying it makes sense to release it now, no matter how hard you try ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

3 out of the 5 games they're re-realising were done even before Mania. The beta music have been there since 1994, they could've used if they wanted to since always. The legal limbo only stopped them from using 6 tracks or so, all the others were used and remixed all the time. But whatever, time will tell.

 

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CertifiedNobody
On 7/24/2021 at 4:42 PM, Shaddy Zaphod said:

We also don't know most of that. We know they had an open world and some of the enemies, bosses and special stages. There's no telling how much it's supposed to have, or even really how much the alleged leakers have seen.

Yes but having at least SOME of the bosses, enemies, special stages and open world regions done around two years before release means the game is pretty far along in development,

 

On 7/24/2021 at 7:51 PM, LegoFedora said:

It's worse when half the games in this collection are already available on modern systems (or all the games if you want to consider steam releases). Adding the game gear games, or even previously unreleased games like Knuckles' Chaotix would really help sell the collection. As it stands right now, there is not a whole lot of incentive to buy the collection since most of the games are already widescreen (mobile ports and/or with mods) and are already super easy to get.

My biggest fear is that this collection sells poorly and SEGA doesn't make any more because "there wasn't much demand for the first one". Like yeah of course there wasn't that much interest/demand, you keep porting games that everyone most likely has multiple copies of by this point. You need a lot more than just widescreen (which again, is already very easy to get/mod in) to sell something like this.

Capcom is the perfect example of how rerelease collections should be, rereleasing older games that until now did not have easy ways to play them without jumping back to older consoles (ps2 for classic especially or the dust-collector that is the Wii U) as well as finally giving us proper rereleases of X7/X8 that fix some problems of those games, and learning from those collections to give us an amazing zero/zx collection. Sega needs to take a page out of what Capcom is doing if they want these collections to sell well.

Haven't people been asking Sega to release the Whitehead ports on PC and console for a while, and asking for a Sonic 3 port? Besides, there's pretty much no chance of Origins selling poorly. People who already have the games will jump at an opportunity to have them on their consoles in widescreen, And it's also releasing around the same time as the Sonic movie 2 isn't it?

On 7/24/2021 at 5:43 PM, Tenko said:

Origins will be out before Rangers, Iizuka was in a recent interview with 4Gamer and had this to say “We haven’t announced a brand new action game for the Sonic series since Sonic Forces, and that caused fans to worry,” said Iizuka. “While it was a bit premature, I wanted to at least take the occasion of the 30th anniversary to announce that a brand new title was in development.”

If the announcement was "premature" then it makes me think late 2022 seems more likely for its release window.

Thinking on the number of titles Origins has still confuses me.. I realize it's all in the interest to make as much money as they can from "retro" releases with minimal effort and development cost, but it urks me no end with the storage available these days that companies release small collections for iconic IP. Especially when they don't follow them up with the next volume and start all over again once the next console generation releases.

There is no reason they can't release the entire pre-'98 catalogue in one set. Make it a big deal like the Sonic Generations Collector's Edition and it would sell out guaranteed.

Origins is probably just supposed to fill a similar role that Super Mario All Stars does and just focus on the core classic games but rereleased for newcomers to the series and old fans that want them on the newest console in one big bundle.

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Indigo Rush

So, the fact that Sonic 1 & 2 have gotten countless re-releases either through Christian Whitehead or M2 in the past decade, but not Sonic 3 & Knuckles up until 2021 tells me that it's probably a little more complicated than just replacing the music. 

Sega knows Sonic 3 is a popular request. They know it's considered to be the best Classic era platformer. There's a reason they haven't been able to (or otherwise daring enough to), because why else would they decide to include fodder like Sonic Spinball in compilation releases over Sonic 3?

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