Sonic Frontiers - Teaser Trailer

[Zaysho]

7 hours ago, NoKaine said:

If I ever find myself refusing to even think about the games, I'd ask myself "do I even like the series anymore? What am I doing on a forum specifically about this franchise I do not like?"

 

56 minutes ago, Jovahexeon The Undyne said:

It gets to a point where they can't fathom someone else "daring" to like what they don't like. And thus, just makes an unnecessary mess of things.

This swings the other way unless y'all want to act like the big stink Forces discourse had on the environment of this forum wasn't a thing.

The moderation staff got multiple reports every single day from people crying about the fact x member wasn't sucking off Sonic Team for making a Sonic game. Some of them outright accused members of spreading hate speech on the grounds that they said Forces kinda looked like shit. One of us got harassed for pointing out this fact to the reporter how insane that was (take a guess what action we took). And even outside of the report box? Most of you were just nitpicking anyone publicly for not being excited enough and don't think I've forgotten who was parading around with other people's avatars to make jokes about them.

Fucking spare me if we're going to act like someone not seeing a point after Sonic Team's multiple bait and switches with absolutely no payoff for what they try to sell in advertising is the problem.

All of this just sounds like dumb, pointless infighting and fandom policing to collect your impressions.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

20 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

 

This swings the other way unless y'all want to act like the big stink Forces discourse had on the environment of this forum wasn't a thing.

The moderation staff got multiple reports every single day from people crying about the fact x member wasn't sucking off Sonic Team for making a Sonic game. Some of them outright accused members of spreading hate speech on the grounds that they said Forces kinda looked like shit. One of us got harassed for pointing out this fact to the reporter how insane that was (take a guess what action we took). And even outside of the report box? Most of you were just nitpicking anyone publicly for not being excited enough and don't think I've forgotten who was parading around with other people's avatars to make jokes about them.

Fucking spare me if we're going to act like someone not seeing a point after Sonic Team's multiple bait and switches with absolutely no payoff for what they try to sell in advertising is the problem.

All of this just sounds like dumb, pointless infighting and fandom policing to collect your impressions.

I have definitely made it very well clear that both ends of the spectrum acted idiotically. From the blind fanboy, to the subject of ridicule, and matters getting terrible from people belligerent to mock those who dared to like it.

As I have also made it clear, it's perfectly fine to not care or not even see a point.

The point I have made and not contradicted is simply, don't be a dick and try and pull down others for seeing a point. I don't mock people who don't think positively on the subject, just in case there is a misunderstanding on that part.

Now, to whomever you're addressing was guilty of those actions, then yes, bad on them for taking things too far. It does go without saying that things shouldn't have gotten as chaotic as they did thanks to both sides.

[Stranger]

3 hours ago, SonicXTails said:

I'm replaying Sonic Lost World right now and having a blast. 

I also think Lost World is a good time. I even hope that the parkour gets refined and adopted moving forward to give level design more variety and allow for different avenues to maintain momentum.

 

3 hours ago, SonicXTails said:

By the way, the teaser worked wonder for me, since I'm actually trying to find people to share my excitement. (That's why I came here) I just wish I could find a place where people can share their enthusiasm instead of their hate.

Give it a little bit of time. If there's an extended teaser or more info, we'll likely see some more fruitful discussion here and there.

[Zaysho]

3 hours ago, Jovahexeon The Undyne said:

Now, to whomever you're addressing was guilty of those actions, then yes, bad on them for taking things too far. It does go without saying that things shouldn't have gotten as chaotic as they did thanks to both sides.

Oh, don't worry, I intend on dealing with it when it comes up again. Just a general warning based on experience, because I'm sure whoever needed to read my message did.

And look, this isn't to encourage negativity or whatever, but you can't say posts asking why someone is even here or if they like Sonic or the "complaining about complaining" thing are much better. It's just toxic positivity and it's just spiteful and annoying for people who actually do want to talk about the game. There's smarter ways of addressing cynicism than just piling it on in the opposite direction. This wasn't nearly as much of a "but both sides were vitriolic" as you think it is when we have to clean up after you all.

[Jango]

I do remember getting banned for a week because of Forces, probably because I called someone's opinion a piece of shit. I even dared with someone that Forces wouldn't get more than 60 on MT, which actually turned out correctly. Still, not elegant of me, but it's easy to see discussions getting out of hand here pretty quickly, 99% of time because at some point we stopped talking about the main subject: the game lol 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

3 minutes ago, Jango said:

I do remember getting banned for a week because of Forces, probably because I called someone's opinion a piece of shit.

Actually, that was because you were actively making fun of people and shooting down enthusiasm for the game period back then. Also teasing people who made a private PM to get away from needless hate got out of hand as well.

[Wraith]

1 minute ago, Jovahexeon The Undyne said:

Actually, that was because you were actively making fun of people and shooting down enthusiasm for the game period back then. Also teasing people who made a private PM to get away from needless hate got out of hand as well.

I wouldn't be so quick to pull receipts if I were you.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Honestly, the mods are many things, but they aren't petty. And they usually have a good reason for doing what they do, most of the time.

8 minutes ago, Jango said:

Still, not elegant of me, but it's easy to see discussions getting out of hand here pretty quickly, 99% of time because at some point we stopped talking about the main subject: the game lol 

That, I can agree with. Regardless of who is on whatever side, folk need to not shoot down others' enthusiasm,  while those defensive don't need to shoot down all critiques of things.

I will admit to sometimes being a bit defensive myself, never to an overtly ridiculous degree except once,  and I do acknowledge that you've definitely gotten better, so my complaints aren't directed at the likes of you.

[Jango]

No, no, he's right actually. I did made fun of people who liked what they were seeing by the time, but it was usually towards the people who had the "I don't care if the game is garbage, I'll buy it day 1 because it's Sonic!" mindset. In retrospect, I was actually making fun of my past self, because I definitely was like that at some point in my life. But we mature in life, and I can see now that I was being too much of a dick.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

18 minutes ago, Jango said:

No, no, he's right actually. I did made fun of people who liked what they were seeing by the time, but it was usually towards the people who had the "I don't care if the game is garbage, I'll buy it day 1 because it's Sonic!" mindset. In retrospect, I was actually making fun of my past self, because I definitely was like that at some point in my life. But we mature in life, and I can see now that I was being too much of a dick.

And I completely respect that you don't do that these days. 

6 hours ago, Zaysho said:

And look, this isn't to encourage negativity or whatever, but you can't say posts asking why someone is even here or if they like Sonic or the "complaining about complaining" thing are much better. It's just toxic positivity and it's just spiteful and annoying for people who actually do want to talk about the game. There's smarter ways of addressing cynicism than just piling it on in the opposite direction.

I can certainly agree with the need to be more clever when tackling overtly cynical players in the mix. Just trying to pull the same thing, but the other way, on them leads to a needless cycle. And it does go both ways, true.

I do get where some go off claiming that there's not much t speculate on, so they ask, why bother, but I don't find anything productive in saying "Go home and don't give Sonic Team any benefit of the doubt". I totally get why people wouldn't want to give them the benefit of the doubt, but I don't believe it right to deride people who still do get enjoyment out of this franchise. Which is what my main issue has been.

Though effectively, it does extend to the overtly defensive as well. When people from either side, let their emotional attachment to the series cloud their judgment to the point where they're just out to try and drag everyone else down with them, or mock needlessly, the opposing side, then we have a problem.

That's why I stated before, that I don't think the rantings of some should ruin the speculation scene for those who want to speculate and have this thread closed. And as stated before, it goes for both sides.

[Sonikko]

Back on topic, I think one of the leaks mentioned a ghost girl?
Marza has been tweeting material on the ghost girl from Unleashed for at least a year now, which felt kind of random at the time, but in hindsight...

How likely is it? Are we gonna get some worldbuilding?

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

51 minutes ago, Sonikko said:

Back on topic, I think one of the leaks mentioned a ghost girl?
Marza has been tweeting material on the ghost girl from Unleashed for at least a year now, which felt kind of random at the time, but in hindsight...

How likely is it? Are we gonna get some worldbuilding?

Hmmm. What kind of information have they been tweeting about her in specific? Anything that could potentially tie her to "Rangers" or come off as sneaky hinting at a return?

[Sonikko]

Well, they have just been posting a lot of artworks and animations related to the character, for more than a year now.

https://twitter.com/marza_staff

Just scroll on their page, she's even in their header

[D.K.]

1 hour ago, Sonikko said:

Back on topic, I think one of the leaks mentioned a ghost girl?
Marza has been tweeting material on the ghost girl from Unleashed for at least a year now, which felt kind of random at the time, but in hindsight...

How likely is it? Are we gonna get some worldbuilding?

as much as i love lah and her ghost harem i feel like she'd be kinda a weird fit for this game of all things? like, "cheeky ghost that bums around in a haunted house while her BFs gets photos of visitors for her entertainment" to "mystical forest spirit that guides sonic through desolate ruins" is kinda a leap. i love seeing old characters reintroduced in new situations, make no mistake, it just feels like an odd fit.

if i had to make a guess, i'm expecting a new character that led an ancient tribe of... idk, badgers? owls? caracals? anything but a humanoid wisp basically, haha

[Blue Blood]

I genuinely think that Lah is just sort of like Marza's unofficial Mascot. They've shown her lots of love over the years from what I've heard. Night of the Werehog was the studio's first big project outside of games (I think?), and they just seem to really like using her for fun. As @Vertical Snoop [D.K.] says, it would be strange see Lah in this game based on what we know. The teaser has a nature and technology theme. The ghost girl mentioned in the leaks strikes me as an entity related to the technology, possibly an AI lifeform or part of the civilisation that the ruins relate to.

That's all speculation based on very little information. But no matter which way I try to twist my view, I can't see any reason to expect the cartoon, Pixar-esque ghost who lives in a haunted house and collects photos of people in that one Sonic animation from 13 years ago to be part of this game. 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

With all those things to consider, depending on how deep Marza's involvment is for this game, Lah could potentially be made officially canon with this game.

ON the other hand, it could potentially be an AI character based off of Lah or Nicole as well.

[___]

Cyber world? AI lifeform? SEGA?

Hatsune Miku confirmed for canon. /s

[Sonikko]

1 minute ago, Gloved Animal said:

Cyber world? AI lifeform? SEGA?

Hatsune Miku confirmed for canon. /s

Dont make me want things I can't have

[SBR2]

12 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

To be completely fair, not having any faith in Sonic Team's output (or even the games in general) specifically doesn't mean you no longer like the franchise. The franchise is more than just the stuff Sonic Team creates.

I don't really understandthis burning hatred for Sonic Team now. They did 3 games in a row that people liked then tried to shake things up a little with Lost World and now people are retroactively turning on Colors and like all that's happened is Sonic Team made 2 less than perfect games after a pretty good streak from Unleashed-Generations so now they suck forever.

I don't know to me there's a line between criticism and blind hatred and when people are like "why bother speculating it's just going to suck anyway" that reads more like blind hate to me.

[Diogenes]

Colors got its fair share of criticism once the new game smell wore off, it's not some new development. And the boost gameplay has burnt itself out for a lot of people, it started out shallow and it's getting worse, so people are hoping they break away from that and not continue to nosedive.

[StaticMania]

14 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

"why bother speculating it's just going to suck anyway"

Even though I haven't said anything about it, my mindset is more "why speculate when there's barely anything to go on"...

People can speculate about things they dislike, but they still need info.

[VO.SUPER]

I feel like you can speculate on trends at least and guess what Sonic team would have taken into consideration when they designed the game maybe in 2017. 

[Dr. Detective]

3 hours ago, SBR2 said:

I don't really understandthis burning hatred for Sonic Team now. They did 3 games in a row that people liked then tried to shake things up a little with Lost World and now people are retroactively turning on Colors and like all that's happened is Sonic Team made 2 less than perfect games after a pretty good streak from Unleashed-Generations so now they suck forever.

I don't know to me there's a line between criticism and blind hatred and when people are like "why bother speculating it's just going to suck anyway" that reads more like blind hate to me.

Sounds more like a loss of faith statement to me. That makes more sense.

I understand disagreeing but it shouldn't be hard to understand the position of "I don't like the trajectory Sonic Team has been on for the past 10 years and they've given me no reason to think it's ending". Even if you have your own opinions on those games, it's silly to assume everyone shares the same feelings.

I was never a fan of Colors. Not 10 years ago and not today. I never thought it was bad but it's not my kind of 3D Sonic game so, of course, getting more games like it wouldn't appease me. 

I've had varying opinions about the games they've released but they all range from "this is good but it doesn't excite me or it's missing a ton of features and content that leaves me feeling disappointed" to "this is bad and they should feel bad".

Aside from the Sumo Digital kart racers I can't say a game has come out in this span of time that I've just felt excited to go back to over and over. 

I still do. Even Forces I try and pretend is good when I go back to it because I love Sonic and I'd take any excuse to be in that world and just hear the characters talk. Doesn't change the fact that it isn't.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

7 hours ago, SBR2 said:

I don't really understandthis burning hatred for Sonic Team now. They did 3 games in a row that people liked then tried to shake things up a little with Lost World and now people are retroactively turning on Colors and like all that's happened is Sonic Team made 2 less than perfect games after a pretty good streak from Unleashed-Generations so now they suck forever.

I don't know to me there's a line between criticism and blind hatred and when people are like "why bother speculating it's just going to suck anyway" that reads more like blind hate to me.

Sonic Forces isn’t half as bad as 06. But in context, I can’t help but feel more insulted by it. Let’s take a trip down memory lane. 

I’m old enough to remember the 3-game climb of the boost formula, from 2008 through 2011. That was such a good time to be a Sonic fan. It felt like Sega was washing their hands of 06 and picking the series back up with optimism and ambition. Unleashed was not a great game, but it was bold. It was confident. And unlike 06, it (mostly) had the gameplay to back it up. Then Colors came out, and yeah, the levels were a lot less spectacular, but they were also more intuitive and engaging. And then just a year later Generations came out, and holy fuck! It had the best of Colors AND Unleashed! Go back and play Generations. The boost formula needed tweaking but I swear to god, Sonic was right on the cusp of excellence. 

Then a couple years go by and we get Lost World. Ok, definitely a step down but the degree of control and stage interaction made me open to future entries using the parkour system. If tweaked right, and maybe somehow combined with a version of boost, this could be the definitive direction for the series. We’re getting there!

And then. Radio silence. 3 years go by. We get an epic teaser showing Godzilla-sized mechs and a pissed off Sonic. Holy shit, here we go! This is what they’ve got in store!

And then the game came out. The most threadbare 3D title in the entire series. Reliant upon the most mindless iteration of the boost system, completely stripped of every gameplay innovation we’d received, a boost title that railroads you far more than even Unleashed, yet still somehow sends you careening towards your death with greater frequency. What the fuck happened? Seriously, how did this happen? How did Sonic Team brain-drain to this degree, to a state of unparalleled gameplay shallowness? How did they climb up this mountain, seemingly addressing their mistakes little by little, only to just throw it all away? I’m not blaming anyone in particular; there are too many moving parts for me to really point fingers. All I’m trying to convey is this: how the fuck can I trust them to do it right this time?

[VO.SUPER]

If I had one thing to say if you take Boom out of the equation, it's only really been Lost World to Forces when it comes to material Sonic Team has directly developed. While the franchise as a whole has been very sloppy and unfocused, it's hard for me to fully embrace Sonic Team as utterly incompetent.

Lost World may be misguided and unfocused, but I guess on its own merits I think it's a fine enough game. If it wasn't a Sonic title I'd say it is pretty good, with some frustrating elements here and there. There is some creativity in level design motifs going on, though not really for Sonic. I would say that if it was that game we were following up, I'd be a bit more confident in Sonic Team's ability to at least churn out a functioning product that could work well. Yeah, it's a misguided product but it's one that has it's own direction of quality and I daresay on this forum, some soul.

But then you go to Forces, which is possibly one of the most soulless and vapid products I've seen. It's like a Sonic game produced by a factory on what a good Sonic game should be. Born from the husks of the boost trilogy before it, and occasional bright ideas that are utterly undercooked. And worse is that it came out after the disaster of Boom, trying to sell itself as a return to form. Yet this "return to form" reeks of "lets emulate our previous successes asap so we can recoup the losses". God, for all the arguments people did and still have about 06, it was something you could freaking dive into like the hurricane it was.

And it just makes you feel like, "where is the heart in this franchise?" Will the next product still be another underbaked pile of shit or just an absolute disaster. The fact it's a totally new direction is what makes it interesting.

But you know what? I guess I can't say Forces shattered me that much. It's the most cookie cutter wet fart game, but I guess I'd like to believe it was just a fluke of uninspiredness.

But that's just me.