Sonic Rangers Predictions...

[VO.SUPER]

Just now, Diogenes said:

...but if they have to dial back the quality for performance's sake on the more powerful hardware, how much left is there to trim away to get it working well on the weaker hardware?

I dont think its entirely impossible to plan a vision around weaker hardware and have it still exhilarating and fun. 

Breath of the Wild was damn impressive for its physics and vertically on much weaker hardware than even the Switch, so its not impossible. 

Now you won't get anything as impressive as a Ratchet and Clank, but I think it will be a while before third party multiplats start approaching that level. 

If the world is still smartly designed it can be great. That doesn't immediately guarantee a bad game. 

But I guess that just comes down to expectations of what the next Sonic should be. I know a lot of fans seriously want to take advantage of that PS5 speed and graphical prowess and I dont blame them.

[NoKaine]

22 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

...but if they have to dial back the quality for performance's sake on the more powerful hardware, how much left is there to trim away to get it working well on the weaker hardware?

They won't have to dial back much if the performance was medium to begin with. It's possible that the PS4 / Xbox One are the base for Rangers, so while the PS5 and XSX versions won't be significantly better, the Switch version wouldn't be significantly worse either.

Sonic Team managed to make Forces on the Switch in less time than they made the full game and without even knowing what the Switch can do and got, well, what everyone expected from the Switch version--a slightly lower quality but fully functional version. It's been four years and they would definitely have a better idea of what the Switch can do.

Meanwhile the PS5 and XSX would be in the "NX"'s position in this case, a new unknown, and it's easier to work up than to work down.

Game won't come out in a year and according to leaks they've been working on it for at least 2 - 3 now. I'm sure the Switch version was considered very early.

I'll predict that we don't see a massive bump from Forces. 

One hiccup is that "Sonic Team" technically hasn't made any game since Forces but "Sonic Team" is a meaningless title at this point. I do know that the Hedgehog Engine 2 was used in other games like Sakura Wars, which was a PS4 exclusive.

Even all the way back in '06, they weren't dumb enough to make a Wii version of '06 knowing that it couldn't run it.

Of course, they were dumb enough to split their development team in two to make an entirely different game on the Wii, fucking over both games, but that's less "straining their resources" and more "incredibly stupid management decisions."

TL;DR: I trust that Sonic Team wouldn't make a Rangers Switch version if they know that it would sacrifice too much, and knowing their hardware is something Sonic Team in general is experienced in.

[StellarBlur]

I think they need to be targeting 60 fps on PS4/X1 so they can get room to go down to 30 fps on Switch. Sonic Team has one of the best fast loading solutions in the industry considering how huge boost levels usually are. I don't think an open world, in terms of performance, is outside their technical expertise. They'll make it work. I just hope the game is a looker on Ps5/XsX.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

No way in hell is a new open-world game reaching 60fps on last-gen consoles. 

[BadBehavior]

If they keep compromising for weaker Nintendo hardware, we're gonna be waiting until the Playstation 8/ Xbox Series Epsilon for a game that looks as impressive as Unleashed did.

[NoKaine]

1 hour ago, BadBehavior said:

If they keep compromising for weaker Nintendo hardware, we're gonna be waiting until the Playstation 8/ Xbox Series Epsilon for a game that looks as impressive as Unleashed did.

Console power has nothing to do with why Unleashed looks so good, unless I've been lied to and the Nintendo Switch is actually weaker than the PS3. Generations was PS3 and 360 exclusive and didn't look much better from Unleased.

No, this is due to budget and to a lesser extent a shift towards a simpler, less impressive art style. 

EDIT: Unless you mean "as impressive as Unleashed relative to its generation", then do note that Unleashed could barely run on the systems it was made for to begin with.

Edited July 2, 2021 by NoKaine

[VO.SUPER]

A lot of games from that period ran pretty poorly. So much focus was on the visuals to the point that sacrificing framerate felt commonplace. 

[Whatever the WhoCares]

With the news that the Switch is getting no performance upgrades, I have to just hope at this point that the Switch version of SR is developed separately. 

[Mr. Ion]

That would be nice, though I find that unlikely. With the current Sonic Team, assuming they have made few changes since Forces, I doubt they would take the time and money to develop a separate version for Switch. Though, then again, it is possible, seeing as they have done this for numerous games as recent as Lost World, back when handhelds were still a thing. So, I find it unlikely, but there is a small chance that they will. They may have to sacrifice certain setpieces, cut down on the size on the open world, etc. in order to accommodate Switch users. At the very least they should take advantage of the OLED display.

[BubbleButt TV]

It's gonna be interesting to see how they handle it. I feel like they could get away with Unleashed Wii being drastically different from the Xbox 360/PS3 version a lot easier back in those days. But does that kinda thing still happen nowadays? I don't know honestly.

Do you think maybe they'll do a Cloud version for the Switch? Like how Phantasy Star Online 2 and the upcoming Guardians of the Galaxy game are just cloud versions. Lets them push the game a bit more perhaps?

[Mr. Ion]

 

1 hour ago, BubbleButt TV said:

It's gonna be interesting to see how they handle it. I feel like they could get away with Unleashed Wii being drastically different from the Xbox 360/PS3 version a lot easier back in those days. But does that kinda thing still happen nowadays? I don't know honestly.

Do you think maybe they'll do a Cloud version for the Switch? Like how Phantasy Star Online 2 and the upcoming Guardians of the Galaxy game are just cloud versions. Lets them push the game a bit more perhaps?

 

They don't really make separate versions for the same game in that they are technically separate games. Unleashed Wii had cut levels, different models, etc. You don't really see that now.I think the reason why is that people catch on and want the real thing, or that companies don't see it as profitable to make separate versions. I don't know too much about cloud gaming but it may be the best route for this. As long as it's less inconsistent than something like Google Stadia it could be a good idea. I'm not sure if Sega would go that route though, again I don't know very much about the subject.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

I just look at these other open-world games and the magnitudes they have to sacrifice to run on Switch… Xenoblade 1 and 2 drop well below 480p for example. What chance would one of these games have if the protagonist could move, I dunno, 6 times faster? I’d have to imagine that, if Sonic Rangers does come out on Switch, it’ll be extremely blurry, fairly choppy, and low-res all around. Anything more would be a milestone for the device. 

[NoKaine]

If you want an example of an open-world multi-platform game on the Switch that runs and looks well relative to the higher platform releases, there's Immortals: Fenyx Rising, that Greek Breath of the Wild Ubisoft game. 

[VO.SUPER]

I've no doubt that the Switch version will be poorly optimized, but I was always of the idea that Rangers wouldn't push the next generation graphical prowess because of how early it started development. It wouldn't be until the next game things would really be held back. 

At the least, the PC and Next gen console versions should run well. 

[McGroose]

What if we have another situation like Unleashed in which we had the higher quality version of the game for the 360/ps3 and a completely different version for the wii/ps2 that was basically it's own standalone game and not just a resolution/texture downgrade? 

Maybe the Switch version of Rangers will be developed by a completely different studio and hardly resemble the main version of the game at all. But that's probably the more expensive option so I'm doubting that. If the Switch is capable of running the full game even if it plays like garbage I'm pretty sure that's what Sega will go for.

[Tomboyish Mermaid]

The only thing that I want from Sonic Rangers is a fun game that is memorable. Sonic might not have the best games in the industry, but almost all of them are memorable in some way or form. Sonic Forces felt so forgettable in terms of its story, characters, world building, etc. I really want a Sonic game that I can remember many years later. I hope we will not get another game with nostalgia pandering once again. Likewise, I want to see new locations, I want to listen to new song, I want to meet new characters and I want to see a new story with Sonic and his bunch of colorful friends. 

[TB100]

10 hours ago, McGroose said:

What if we have another situation like Unleashed in which we had the higher quality version of the game for the 360/ps3 and a completely different version for the wii/ps2 that was basically it's own standalone game and not just a resolution/texture downgrade? 

Maybe the Switch version of Rangers will be developed by a completely different studio and hardly resemble the main version of the game at all. But that's probably the more expensive option so I'm doubting that. If the Switch is capable of running the full game even if it plays like garbage I'm pretty sure that's what Sega will go for.

Eh, I doubt that. Sega doesn’t really do stuff like that anymore. The switch versions of Mania, Forces and Team Sonic Racing have all just been port jobs, I see no reason to believe Rangers wouldn't follow suit and just be a stripped down port.

[Tomboyish Mermaid]

Also, Sonic games do sell best on the Nintendo consoles. Sonic doesn't really has that many supporters in the PS4/PS5 and especially not on XBOX-consoles. 

[BadBehavior]

hence why Sega felt secure going with the little 3 game exclusivity deal in the Wii U era. The problem of course being that it was the Wii U, which flopped only slightly less harder than the Dreamcast. So the lesson they learned was not to pull stupid crap like that again. Don't wanna put all your eggs in one basket.

[BubbleButt TV]

Just thinking back to the leaks saying the game was in a rough state... I really hope that didn't mean a glitchy broken mess

Even Generations, one of the more stable and solid games has its share of bugs

and if this game truly is open world that really opens the door for all kinds of chaos

I really hope they take the playtesting feedback to heart...

[User18091994]

I'm excited about this game because I'm tired of Sonic games playing too safe. I miss when Sonic Team was ambitious and the games had more memorable moments. Even when the games weren't that great, they were more memorable. I know it's not a popular opinion, but I don't like Sonic Generations. In my opinion, it's overrated because it didn't bring anything new and memorable to the table, it only recycled ideas from past games and relied on nostalgia. I know it has awesome gameplay and level design, but it wasn't enough for me because of the nostalgia, being too short and having a terrible story. I prefer playing games like Sonic Unleashed, Black Knight and other dark age titles than Generations just because of that. They feel like Sonic Team had passion and were trying, even when their ideas didn't work properly. Most of the games at that time were good, despite all their flaws and critical reception.

I love Sonic Colors, though, at least Colors had original ideas and themes for the stages. It was the last mainline Sonic game that was original. Have you ever thought about that? All Colors stage themes were brand new.

Then we had Generations, Lost World and Forces. I've already talked about Generations, Lost World is uninspired, and all stage themes were clichés of the platforming genre. Even though the gameplay was different, it was nothing new or unique to the genre. Forces tried to be more serious, but didn't go far enough and has also relied too much on nostalgia. Half of the game is Green Hill and Chemical Plant. This is insane!

Modern Sonic has lost most of its appeal during this past decade. Sonic games used to be more original, unique and ambitious. They used to have creative stage themes, stories and settings. Now the Sonic universe feels like Mario's, where there aren't any consequences on the story that are carried though the games. There aren't any character development, all of them were turned into unidimensional caricature of their previous personalities, and everything feels like frozen in time,

The recent Takashi Iizuka interviews gave me a little hope because they were focused on bringing something new, and thinking about the future of the franchise in the long-term. It seems like the first time in years they are looking more to the future than to the past with this project. An open world Sonic game is an ambitious idea and could change the franchise forever. I'm all for it. I prefer the uncertainty of this new game being any good that the certainty that everything will be like Generations, Lost World and Forces forever.

[Tomboyish Mermaid]

I think SEGA will take a lot more risks with this upcoming game. The successes of the movie probably made them a bit more comfortable with new ideas. My predictions for this game will be, that SEGA and Sonic Team will take a lot of inspirations from Breath of the Wild. Lost World was more or less a Sonic-version of Mario Galaxy, so Sonic Rangers will Sonic's version of Breath of the Wild. One idea that I have is, that the main villain, which will be a demon-like creature, will be very similar to Ganon. Maybe even to the point, where you can face him from the start. 

[NoKaine]

I have a feeling that despite the leaker's impressions, it's going to be more Mario Odyssey than Breath of the Wild, i.e. several big open levels instead of one huge open world.

[KingMario05]

1 hour ago, NoKaine said:

I have a feeling that despite the leaker's impressions, it's going to be more Mario Odyssey than Breath of the Wild, i.e. several big open levels instead of one huge open world.

That's what I'm thinking, too, especially with Switch being confirmed. To truly do an open-world Sanic game justice, one would need the SSDs of the PS5/Series X/future PCs, I imagine. But Sega's targeting last-gen too, so that is immediately off the table unless they want a Cyberpunk-style trainwreck on what's inevitably gonna be the unofficial home systems for this (el Switcho and maybe base PS4).

[BubbleButt TV]

Yeah I kinda doubt the scope of the game will be on the same level as BotW

Going to HowLongToBeat.com to get a better look at the average runtime for most Sonics, you'll notice that the more recent ones are way shorter.

Sonic Forces - 4 Hours

Generations - 5.5 Hours

Compare this to the previous games

Sonic Unleashed - 12.5 Hours

Sonic '06 - 16 Hours (longest runtime of any Sonic game ever)

Personally I think Rangers needs to be more in the 12-15 Hour range. I don't think it needs to be 50+ hours like Zelda but it should at least be 10+ Hours like Mario Odyssey