The Continuity Debate

[Dr. Mechano]

But it isn't. It's just not directly tied to previous titles.

Oh, except for Eggman finally building that thing he first brought up in Sonic Adventure, Eggman Land. A project that was mentioned in Sonic Rush as well, sometime later.

This game was the culmination of a goal Eggman outlined years ago, and I'd say that ties in with previous titles nicely. It's major.

Edited October 18, 2009 by Dr. Mechano

[Blue Blood]

Oh, except for Eggman finally building that thing he first brought up in Sonic Adventure, Eggman Land. A project that was mentioned in Sonic Rush as well, sometime later.

This game was the culmination of a goal Eggman outlined years ago, and I'd say that ties in with previous titles nicely. It's major.

I wouldn't say it's particually major on it's own- the major part is that Eggman actually does something credible and that a flow of continuity is shown between the games. The whole point there slipped me though, so thanks. You just backed up my case.

[Phos]

But it isn't. It's just not directly tied to previous titles.

That's what a reboot is.

[Blue Blood]

That's what a reboot is.

No. A reboot would be a wiping of the slate. Unleashed didn't do this. By your logic, Pokémon R/S/E and D/P/Pt are reboots, Mario games near always have reboots and the list goes on. Plus Unleashed has Eggmanland as the Doc already pointed out. It just gets on by itself because previous stories aren't overly relevant to it.

[Badnik Zero]

Just because Sonic is "back and better than ever" it doesn't necessarily make it a reboot. A reboot would be a reimagining of certain aspects of the series. I'd say Adventure was a partial reboot, because they changed character designs for a new 3D generation, but then a lot of things changed with that game. I think Heroes did this to some extent by changing the mood for the multiplatform debut, but I can't figure out why. Unleashed didn't attempt to shift things around enough to be a reboot. It had lots of polish, but they didn't make it something new.

Edited October 18, 2009 by Stretchy Werewolf

[Blazey Firekitty]

Perhaps Unleashed comes across as a reboot because it does not feature Shadow...Shadow seemed to be, for a few years at least, the main sign that said "This game follows from the Adventure games."

Of course, Shadow wouldn't have fit the tone of Unleashed, and besides, like others have noted, the presence of Eggmanland shows a connection to Sonic Adventure.

[Blue Blood]

Perhaps Unleashed comes across as a reboot because it does not feature Shadow...Shadow seemed to be, for a few years at least, the main sign that said "This game follows from the Adventure games."

Of course, Shadow wouldn't have fit the tone of Unleashed, and besides, like others have noted, the presence of Eggmanland shows a connection to Sonic Adventure.

Good ol' Shadow gets two cameos in Unleashed! There's the S.Shadow Ave signpost in Skyscraper Scamper and you can say that Shadow the Hedgehog is the entity that awoke when the Earth was shattered. Haha! Neither of those prove continuty though of couse- they're merely Easter Eggs.

[Blazey Firekitty]

and you can say that Shadow the Hedgehog is the entity that awoke when the Earth was shattered.

Shadow is Dark Gaia?O_o

I don't think that's what you meant, though.^^;;

[Phos]

No. A reboot would be a wiping of the slate. Unleashed didn't do this. By your logic, Pokémon R/S/E and D/P/Pt are reboots, Mario games near always have reboots and the list goes on.

All the Pokemon games take place in the same world. I believe there's an official map of how all the different regions

fit together. I don't follow the series.

There's never been a Mario game where the producer has described as not relating to any previous Mario games. Mario also seems to be part of Peach's entourage, presumably as a body guard.

You also have to keep in mind that in Sonic 1, Sonic and Robotnik had already fought.

Plus Unleashed has Eggmanland as the Doc already pointed out. It just gets on by itself because previous stories aren't overly relevant to it.

The Matrix of Leadership was in Transformers 2, that doesn't mean it's canon with the old movie.

[Blazey Firekitty]

I don't see how not explicitly referencing past continuity is grounds for a reboot. Unleashed may not go out of its way to state it's in continuity with what came before it, but it doesn't contradict anything, either.

[Icecoldfrieza]

Oh, except for Eggman finally building that thing he first brought up in Sonic Adventure, Eggman Land. A project that was mentioned in Sonic Rush as well, sometime later.

This game was the culmination of a goal Eggman outlined years ago, and I'd say that ties in with previous titles nicely. It's major.

Sonic mentioned Eggmanland in SR: Zero Gravity as well.

[Blue Blood]

Shadow is Dark Gaia?O_o

I don't think that's what you meant, though.^^;;

That's indeed what I meant. Brenda asks you to answer some questions for her and when she asks for the name of the creature that awoke from the Earth, you can answer "Shadow the Hedgehog". To other questions you can answer that Tails is actually a girl and that his plane is called "The I luv Sonic". Unleashed and Chronicles make me smile with their charms.

Chronicles acually did some nice things for the continuity. As previously mentioned it sort of tied together factors from different continuities (and quite sneakily so), but better yet it drew parts of the game canon together. Gizoids and the two Echidna tribes. The cast remark about Gizoids when they first encounter them on Kron, Nestor knew Emerl personally, we know who the Knuckles' tribe were fighting and what happened when they lost and best of all the series was given a nice shot of variation. The three alien races were refreshing and I really REALLY hope they don't become limited to the Chronicles game(s?).

The Matrix of Leadership was in Transformers 2, that doesn't mean it's canon with the old movie.

"Eggmanland will finally come to be!"

It had been a long time in the making. Unleashed may not tie anything that was a SUPER ULTRA MAJOR PLOT POINT OF ALL TIME but it's not a seperate canon or alternate continuity. Nothing suggests that it is.

Edited October 18, 2009 by Blue Blood

[JezMM]

Just wanted to add: another rather major link between SA2 and SA is the fact that the Artificial Chaos were based off research into Chaos himself.

I also find it odd that some people don't consider (or at least don't like to consider) Shadow The Hedgehog canon. It never contradicted anything, only added stuff to SA2's story that people didn't like.

The three alien races were refreshing and I really REALLY hope they don't become limited to the Chronicles game(s?).

Really? I found them generic as hell. The second half of Chronicles was an absoloute slog for me story-wise and I had to force myself to finish it.

Edited October 18, 2009 by JezMM

[Sega DogTagz]

The three alien races were refreshing and I really REALLY hope they don't become limited to the Chronicles game(s?).

Shade herself has yet to crack the roster, (although she hasnt had much of a chance too yet) so I think you should hold you're breath on that front before the series starts reaching for the Voxai or Kron.

(Its weird, you can really see that Bioware stole took alot of inspiration from Mass Effect)

[Blue Blood]

Really? I found them generic as hell. The second half of Chronicles was an absoloute slog for me story-wise and I had to force myself to finish it.

Refreshing to the series, shall we say then. They certainly weren't master of character design by any means, but it was nice to see knew characters that weren't forgettable humans or same old Sonicy animals.

SDT: No doubt about that. It's an "I'd like", not an "I want" or "I expect". And due to where Chronicles falls in the timeline, it's not likely.

Edited October 18, 2009 by Blue Blood

[Phos]

"Eggmanland will finally come to be!"

A reboot doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to discard common themes and specific objects.

Just wanted to add: another rather major link between SA2 and SA is the fact that the Artificial Chaos were based off research into Chaos himself.

How did they do that research when Chaos was sealed in the Master Emerald?

[Frozen Nitrogen]

How did they do that research when Chaos was sealed in the Master Emerald?

...

That's a very good point that I'd never thought of before, actually.

Although Gerald did build himself an entire Emerald Shrine replica way down there in Cannon's Core. Maybe he also dabbled in exposing cute little chao to DANGEROUS RADIATION in order to mutate his own half-assed blue-goo Chaos-es?

[Diogenes]

How did they do that research when Chaos was sealed in the Master Emerald?

They didn't probe Chaos himself, they studied the records left by the echidnas.

[Thirsty Pocket]

It's one long continuity. Just a poorly connected one. I like to think of my own way of connecting them.

[Badnik Zero]

How did they do that research when Chaos was sealed in the Master Emerald?

They extracted Chaos DNA from the Emerald, like they did to the mosquito in Jurassic Park.

Or Gerald just figured out how to do it. If he's just a highly advanced Chao like we've been lead to believe, Gerald just jump-started that process artificially. I mean, you can make a Chaos Chao yourself in the games.

[Blazey Firekitty]

That's indeed what I meant. Brenda asks you to answer some questions for her and when she asks for the name of the creature that awoke from the Earth, you can answer "Shadow the Hedgehog". To other questions you can answer that Tails is actually a girl and that his plane is called "The I luv Sonic". Unleashed and Chronicles make me smile with their charms.

Heh, lol, forgot about that quiz thing.XD

[Frozen Nitrogen]

Chronicles acually did some nice things for the continuity. As previously mentioned it sort of tied together factors from different continuities (and quite sneakily so), but better yet it drew parts of the game canon together. Gizoids and the two Echidna tribes. The cast remark about Gizoids when they first encounter them on Kron, Nestor knew Emerl personally, we know who the Knuckles' tribe were fighting and what happened when they lost and best of all the series was given a nice shot of variation.

True dat. A Sonic game that ties up loose continuity strings instead of engaging in willful amnesia (or, worse, adding nonsensical new loose strings) is teh sexy as far as I'm concerned.

BUT:

The three alien races were refreshing and I really REALLY hope they don't become limited to the Chronicles game(s?).

A.) Kron + N'rrgal + Zoah + Voxai = 4.

B.) You'll rarely find as big a Chronicles fanboi as me, but even I thought they were fairly generic. Bioware gets points in that none of them were egregiously humanoid, but still.

I guess my major objection to the aliens is that "battling aliens" doesn't seem to be particularly Sonic.

If we're voting "Sonic vs. Aliens" or "Sonic vs. Supernatural Magicians", I'd vote "Sonic vs. Aliens" every time... but I'd rather have "Sonic vs. Robotnik's Robots". Maybe with a bit of "Sonic vs. Nack" mixed in there for variety.

[Blue Blood]

A.) Kron + N'rrgal + Zoah + Voxai = 4.

B.) You'll rarely find as big a Chronicles fanboi as me, but even I thought they were fairly generic. Bioware gets points in that none of them were egregiously humanoid, but still.

I guess my major objection to the aliens is that "battling aliens" doesn't seem to be particularly Sonic.

If we're voting "Sonic vs. Aliens" or "Sonic vs. Supernatural Magicians", I'd vote "Sonic vs. Aliens" every time... but I'd rather have "Sonic vs. Robotnik's Robots". Maybe with a bit of "Sonic vs. Nack" mixed in there for variety.

A.) My bad. I knew there were four, but wrote three by mistake.

B.) They really were generic as a whole, but not so much so for the Sonic series.

[MrPoT4tO]

I don't know if someone posted something about Sonic Battle (I didn't read the 2nd page) but I think that game is cannon.

I'm sure it happened after Heroes, because of Rouge says at one point about Omega, but the thing that confused me was Shadow. In Heroes he didn't know a thing about his past, and all of a sudden he does now.

Then I thought that this game, in the storyline, happens after Shadow the hedgehog, even if it didn't hit the market at that point.

[Frozen Nitrogen]

I don't know if someone posted something about Sonic Battle (I didn't read the 2nd page) but I think that game is cannon.

I'm sure it happened after Heroes, because of Rouge says at one point about Omega, but the thing that confused me was Shadow. In Heroes he didn't know a thing about his past, and all of a sudden he does now.

Then I thought that this game, in the storyline, happens after Shadow the hedgehog, even if it didn't hit the market at that point.

There's 2 problems with that. One: Shadow Eclipse Cannons Central City off the face of the Earth in his own game, yet it's still there in time for Battle. Two: Shadow's still whining about Maria all through Battle, despite the fact that the whole point of Shadow's game is for him to relinquish his angsty past.

Neither of those problems are insurmountable and I agree that Battle being set after Shadow is the best solution, but it ain't ideal.